ccap41

2nd Edit: Fck it. I'm dumb.

Shelby Series 1 !! I used to have a poster of one of those in my room! Great choice!

I don't despise them as much as a Journey but for some reason I've just never fell for them either. I've always liked the Impreza/WRX/STI but anything else Subaru I've just viewed kind of as..junk.. I know that isn't a fair assessment. I just don't view Subaru as anything special outside of the WRX, below average interiors, average or below fuel economy and performance, but they have superb AWD systems. Maybe I just don't live in the right area to need a superb AWD system matched to fuel economy and vehicle size...? I really liked the Crosstrek when it first came out as well. It added some style and flare to an otherwise boring company but it's just kind of sat w/o much updates and it has one lone gasoline engine making 148hp/145tq.

As long as it is just as sexy as the CLS/A(S/RS)7 I'm fine with more good looking cars out there.

Wasn't that the first car with radar cruise control or something like that? I think it's ugly but in a cool, unique, and innovative way. I could be wrong but from my research yes it was as far as I can tell but hopefully Balthy will pop in and confirm as the master of all things well aged! NEAT! Yeah my dad actually sent me an article on that car a few months back about how advanced it was for it's time but it just never stuck or took off.

Bummer, I would love to see what you built but cannot for some strange reason. Did it still never show up for you? Sadly no, I still see it as above and I have checked from both home and work. Not sure why some pics show up this way. Very weird. I know my work computer does things like that but usually when I'm at home or on my phone I don't have that issue...oh well.. It was just a paintball gun stand 90% complete. I still want to paint it and strap the foam down.

Bummer, I would love to see what you built but cannot for some strange reason. Did it still never show up for you?

Wasn't that the first car with radar cruise control or something like that? I think it's ugly but in a cool, unique, and innovative way.

The XLR was not a weak attempt.. Actually it was a fine car initially, that failed to be updated. It debuted to the market in 2003.. on the C5 backbone.. but the C6 came out 1.5 years later with new tech and new engine. The XLR.. had it been the VSeries alone as the base model and a LS7 powered actual Vseries.. would have been a damn competitive vehicle. Especially looking at the competition. It wasn't a weak attempt but it didn't have the feeling of differentiation like they would if they did one today. I'm not knocking the perormance of the car as it was a gnarly car.. I'm just a little surprised they aren't doing a variation of it now.

Absolutely gorgeous!

I'm actually surprised they don't make a Caddy version of the Vette. They've learned how to not just to simple badge jobs so it would look better then the XLR(weak attempt) and be more differentiated because they just know how to do that better now.

Yeah I couldn't get it exactly how I'd like it because I'd definitely like the 2.3 and a few other things but that brings the price to nearly 45k. I think I would just really like a really nice version of what I have now which the way I built it would basically be that.

That is correct. And if they are getting a load for the full amount(not sure if that's even possible..) then you would be getting a loan for the full 37500(plus TTL) for the Bolt and hopfully you know your tax situation and then you'll know how much you should get back but your still in for the full amount up front.

I'm not sure if you guys have looked into the 7500 tax credit or not but I came across it awhile ago while looking into the whole EV thing. " Will I be ineligible to claim the credit if my income is too high? There is no maximum income limitation for claiming the New Plug-in Tax Credit. As long as a taxpayer otherwise qualifies for the credit and has a sufficient tax liability for the year, the taxpayer can claim the New Plug-in Tax Credit to reduce that tax liability down to zero (but not below zero). After the taxpayer has reduced his or her tax liability to zero, the taxpayer will lose any remaining excess New Plug-in Tax Credit, assuming the vehicle was used solely for personal driving. "

Anything that isn't a Dodge Journey. Okay but on a more serious note.. I believe my Escape is in this category and it had a tag of 35k.. well now that the MKC is out I think it'd rather have a marginally lesser optioned MKC still 2.0T and AWD but no pano moon roof because I don't use it anyway and some of the other high end goodies that I already don't have. I wish I could have gotten the 2.3T for the price but It started a few hundred bucks more or something. I went with a MKC, 2.0T, AWD, and the one step up equipment group that adds: 18-inch Luster Nickel Painted Aluminum Wheel LED Daytime Running Lamps Power Folding Side Mirrors Leather Seating Surfaces Power Liftgate I would want one of these two colors.. if not black.

"ease up on the throttle" Perfect automotive reference!

So you have not actually driven one and you are using hypotheticals to justify your absolutely line of thinking because some here are critical of it. Thanks for clearing that up Suave and proving my point. Peace. Yeah that didn't seen very Suav-like to me... *shrugs shoulders*

While it is a clear valid point, a better discussion can be had if one is to explain their thinking and who knows, maybe you will want to change from a down to an up vote based on the debate. Both have their point, I just like to better understand why people are thinking the way they do. My downvote explanations will all be the same though.. -1 "Because you're acting like a douche" I'm not sure how much discussion that will bring..lol I say this with all due respect ccap (because we have talked about this before), but what gives you the right to decide who is "acting like a douche"? What you find as "douchy", some other may see as completely legit. Seems kind of childish in a way and a waste of a legit down vote to me. No offense but that is just my take on it. So I totally had something written up that made sense..who knows now. Somehow it went away and I'll attempt to recreate it. No I understand, man. The same right that gives the person to make super flamboyant trolly and douchy posts. They wanted and explanation as to why they they got their little red "-1" and now they got it, right? They got what they wanted, an explanation. There were two people who complained about no explanation and two people who constantly make douchy/trolly posts and only one of those overlaps. One person expressed their displeasure with not getting an explanation to accompany the down vote, one person who makes constant trolly and douchy posts, and one person who does both of those. Well, now they get an explanation from me at least. That's what they wanted. In you opinion what makes a down vote legit(not trying to be a smart ass, I'm genuinely curious)? Also, Ricky: “With all due respect, Mr. Dennit, I had no idea you’d gotten experimental surgery to have your balls removed.” Dennit: “What did you just say to me?” Ricky: “What? I said with all due respect!” Dennit: “Just because you say that doesn’t mean you get to say whatever you want to say to me!” Ricky: “It sure as hell does!” Dennit: “No, it doesn’t–” Ricky: “It’s in the Geneva Conventions, look it up!” That just reminded me of "with all due respect".

Yeah I'm with you here as well.. we get just enough snows a year to make RWD buying a conscious decision. RWD based AWD car..E63.. I'd get one just because it's a freakin' monster of a car! But I do completely understand and agree with what you're saying.

Congrats on the bright and sunny day there, Olds! We're supposed to get storms here... Well the difference in weight of that V8 to V6 hanging over the wrong driven wheels(for snow) could make a decent difference, more balanced with the V6 and the V6 will have skinnier tires!

This is a very VERY good point. My Mustangs were trash in the winter but they were 03-04 and one had a 4v hanging over the front end..iron block..HEAVY. So the balance definitely was not in favor of snow traction. I will give you guys the modern weight balance thing and traction control technology but I definitely stand by the wide rear tires killing traction compared to the older cars.

The truth is FWD is not better in the snow. The lie is that FWD is better and it was marketed like this back around 1980 to sell everyone on the smaller FWD cars. The rub many people believe it. The AWD is not as in demand as you may think. Just look at the sales of the Fusion as it is still below 20%. Added cost is a major factor and the fact only people on the fringe of the snow really demand it. Here in the snow belt not a common sight here as we know how to drive or have trucks. What keeps the Camaro alive is performance, Tradition and the lack of anything else with performance. Plus they are damn good cars to drive. The truth is...FWD IS BETTER IN SNOW... This coming from a guy the drives FWD...PREFERS FWD in snow...and drove RWD cars n the winter.... True...they were 1980s RWD cars...but still... RWD cars...get very SQUIRRELY when taking turns...when pressing the gas hard when engaging a turn... RWD cars dont have GRIP... One has to feather the peddle...or wheel spin happens...and guess what? To get out of an icy patch...wheel spin IS necessary... And...to get out of a small snow filled groove and some ice is under neath...wheel spin is necessary.... But with a catch...you need weight at the back of the wheels that drive... Yeah...I know the tricks of the trade...sand bags... There is no need for sands bags in a FWD car... you could argue this all day long... I dont know where you live... I live in Montreal, Quebec Canada. Buffalo, New York gets more snow than we do. Minneapolis Minn. gets more snow than we do... OK...we still get a lot of snow... We Montrealers are getting snow tomorrow actually... There are hardly ANY RWD cars being sold in Montreal... You think its because of marketing? Think what you will, but I believe Montrealers prefer FWD cars because they are a tad more predictable and easier to get out of snow banks than RWD cars... You know...it aint even about predictability... It really is the ease of not getting stuck in snow... I dont need snow tires with a FWD car...I do just fine with all seasons... Yet with a RWD car, peoplesay that winter tires are a necessity... I repeat...I PERSONALLY do just fine with ALL SEASONS with a FWD car...I NEVER get stuck! Ive gotten stuck countless of times with my 1988 Pontiac Firebird, with my 1985 Olds Delta 88, and with my uncles 1988 fullsize Chevy Van... I learned to drive in winter conditions with that 1988 Chevy Van. Anymore with a limited slip, stability control and anti locks RWD is just fine. FWD is good for those who have absolute no skid control skills that generally the Stability control deals with just fine. A RWD with some basic skills can be steered with the steering or throttle while if you lose traction with FWD you lose your traction and steering. Once the car understeers all you can do is get off the gas and hope you can recover. RWD you can get on the gas and steer out of it. I live on the side of the lakes that get all the snow vs. your side that only gets some. Much of this just comes down to basic skill levels. There is less traction with FWD as for every action their is a equal and opposite reaction. The weight transfers from the front to the back under take off. This is why cars do wheelies and in drag racing need wheelie bars to hold the nose down. This is also why FWD drag cars put the wheelie bars on the ground to keep the front wheels on the ground to get traction. We have now had several Generation now growing up in FWD and they just do not have the skills of past drivers to understand how to steer with RWD. I don't blame them as if you can not get your hands on a RWD you will never learn. We had to learn how to deal with it back when there was few FWD cars too. We used an old FIat and would blitz around a frozen parking lot learning how to deal with the FWD under-steer. No electronic aids then to say you. If you can find a FWD car with no electronics and just find out how bad FWD is with out them. There's a pretty big difference between being "just fine" and being the better vehicle. The weight over the drive wheels on a FWD will always be superior to a rear driven vehicle. There also isn't a ton of "steering out of it" in snow. Once a car slides sideways in the snow there isn't a ton of margin for error like on dry pavement. Dry pavement you can definitely use throttle and steering to get out o being sideways but in the snow once you lose traction and are sideways the level of grip is just so much lower that counter steering and MORE throttle just isn't there, except for the few degrees of yaw. There is a weight transfer from front to rear upon acceleration but if there is snow on the ground you can't accelerate hard enough to get enough weight transfer to actually get more traction upon the rear wheels. If both a FWD and a RWD car could only use 1/4 throttle to get going the FWD will have more traction as there will be very little transfer of weight, the front won't lift and the rear won't squat. My Beretta didn't have traction control but did have ABS and it was hands down better than my Mustang with traction control on or off. I also think tires are being severely underrated here. I will absolutely stand by a RWD car with winter tires is superior to a FWD or AWD vehicle with summer tires or all seasons. A good set of winter tires will transform a car in the winter. I think this is the biggest issue but people are cheap or in my case we usually only get a handful of snows a year and I cannot justify $1200 for 5 snows..or this past winter 1 1/2.

Our Chevy dealer had one on it's lot recently..like a weird light green. Probably the only color I wouldn't want on an SS. I wish the car got more..publicity..? It's a great freakin' car, absolutely perfect enthusiast/family car. I don't even know how many ppl know about it. As for the winter thing.. those first 100 years were also done on super skinny and super heavy cars. Now we have lighter cars and much MUCH wider rubber both of which don't help winter traction. But, if you have the 50k for one of these then an extra grand for winter tires shouldn't be a big deal. Edit: 245's up front and 275's out back. A little comparison.. I know the car choice probably isn't perfect but it was the first "old school" car that came to my mind. 1969 GTO: 215/75R14 tires and weighed around 3505lbs(okay definitely lighter than I had thought) 2016 SS: 245's in front 275's out back and around 3975lbs(about 100lbs more than I thought) I wish I could quickly figure out the weight per square inch of tire touching the ground. That would be the real answer.

Hahaha well it will only be to the douchy posts..and once a day..tops..because a douche bitched and wined about it because his internet feelings got hurted...from a little "-1". So then the little DOUCHE is BallLess! After all this country was created on Debate, freedom of speech for all. So if you cannot handle the heat get out of the Kitchen McFly! ..well.. We shall see how well that goes over.