ccap41

But the only advantage the ZL1 has over its Cadillac kin is horsepower, which as Balth was alluding to, is not the be all end all metric.The same question could be asked of Ford as well. Why does Ford get the $400K super car while Lincoln gets yet another CUV?And I completely agree that Lincoln should be the premium brand if that's what Lincoln is supposed to be for them but Lincoln is basically junk in comparison to Caddy. Lincoln is a century away from having anything performance-oriented. Either way my opinion stands. I think Caddy should be the one with the super car first and the ATS/CTS should have gotten the 650/640hp/tq first. Not so much that Chevy shouldn't use it but that caddy should have gotten it first. I kind of view the Vette as its own thing because caddy doesn't have anything there yet but whatever the new mid-engine Vette is, I think should start as a Cadillac.

It's supposed to be the premium, high end brand isn't it? Shouldn't the premium brands get the best equipment first not the cheapest brand of the 4 under the umbrella?

Absolutely too soon for rust! Where is his starting to form rust bubbles? I ask because I too have a 2013 Escape and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any and I do my best to always hand wash it and I'm confident I would have noticed that. In the ~20,000 miles of ownership I've only had MFT freeze once and crash once as well.. Just stating my personal observation.

Wow this didn't get spaced the was it was supposed to at all. Here's a little fixaroo.

But both missions, at one point, were affordable performance that most anybody can buy. The Camaro is definitely moving further away from that at a quicker rate than the Challenger and Mustang. The Miata still remains a great performance bargain, like the car or not. Yes, in the grand scheme of things the Camaro is still a hell of a bargain for 100% OEM cars but nearly 40k to touch an SS is pretty rough. I have said before that the whole auto industry's prices are rising faster than inflation rates and it will create a problem eventually once people just stop buying because they're just too expensive. 2015 Camaro's base price: 25,700 2016 Camaro's base price: 27,705 That's a 7.23% increase in price. Inflation is not that. Inflation is typically in the 2-3% range. 2014 Mustang's base price:22,510 2015 Mustang's base price: 23,800 That's a 5.42% increase in base price. Still above inflation rate(like I said the whole industry is doing that) but much less so. Actually, inflation for the US was 0.7% last year. Shows how fast car prices are rising in relation to everything else.

Just because: Ford's S550 chassis outsold the entire Alpha chassis. Mustang: 9565 Camaro: 5520 ATS: 2119 CTS: 1313 Total: 8952 First of all, How is the CTS only selling 1313 units??? Without looking.. I have to believe the E Class and 5 Series are 2-4 times that, right? It was a plus month for the ATS! Good! I want more on the road so when I'm ready to buy, there are more to choose from.

Wow, those are awesome! My gf would lose those as she love vintage things and she's a hair stylist. If by chance you ever wanted to sell those.. give me a heads-up.

I completely agree, SMK. Well put. They once were considered affordable sports cars(or muscle cars...whatever) and they're slowly becoming less and less affordable as the price of them is rising faster than inflation is.

I HATE hearing "lease specials" because those are always the "ultra low" mileage leases meaning something like 8-10k miles a year or so. Change that to something more realistic and it jumps $25-50/month if not more if you drive a lot.

Time value of money plays a part here as well though which would work slightly in their favor, even though it is only 1-3 years. Somebody here has taken a few accounting classes

No. Because the Cadillac fans have a LT4 in the CTSV. Not only that.. The ATS-V is a car in and of itself. For your constant instigating questions I pose this.. f@#kin C63AMG or M3 fans have an issue that the ZL1 will have 200 more Hp than they? But it's in a Chevy not a Cadillac is what he's getting at. Cadillac should be number 1 then Chevy number 2 not vise versa. I also doubt C63 or M4 fans care about anything Chevy because most likely their head is too far up their ass or nose too high in the air to notice.

Oh it isn't a better performer than the Camaro overall and it was surprising to know that it was lower at all. I was just saying because it came up somewhere and I wasn't sure where.. Still a neat thing to know because I wouldn't have guessed it because the Camaro is the handler of the two.

"The Mustang Shelby GT350 doesn’t compete directly with the ZL1—it’ll face off against the upcoming Camaro Z/28 track special" "The mightiest Ford Mustang in the stable, the Shelby GT500, which will take aim at Chevrolet’s supercharged, 650-hp Camaro ZL1." http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-spy-photos-news

I wish I could actually listen to these all and put my vote in because I've probably heard them all I just don't know based off of song titles. ..and I can't listen at work..

Looks like any other F1 or Indy car race except there is actually competition and racing as opposed to a strung out field and no 5 total passes all race and those are only when there are pit stops.

I don't remember if it was here or somewhere else that the center of gravity for the Mustang and Camaro came up and that the Mustang's was actually lower but I stumbled across the article. Here it is: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

I wish they had the nuts to do to. More hot hatch comparisons are awesome!

It largely depends on curb weight and weight distribution. The GT350 weighs in around 3700 pounds. If the ZL1 weighs in at 3900-ish I'd say it's a legit comparo. Why would weight and distribution of said weight matter which car it compares to? Wouldn't it be more how the car is built and what it is built for? Like.. the GT350R is designed to be a road course car with relatively conservative power ratings and a flat plane crank(no low end tq) whereas the GT500's have been just gobs of power everywhere pretty much designed around a drag strip and cruising as opposed to staying flat over a set of switch-backs...like the last ZL1. Nope. Not in this case, anyhow. Consider: if the ZL1 rings in around, say, 60 large, it'll be right around the price of a loaded GT350. If the ZL1 weighs in around, say, 3900 poinds, it'll be just a smidge heavier than a GT350. The ZL1 will have MR shocks that allow you to tailor the ride to track or street. And, most importantly, the ZL1 will have 115 more hp and about 200 more pound-feet of twist. This is the great tragedy of the S550: it simply doesn't have the value-per-dollar of the Camaro. When your "track special" is in danger of being eclipsed by a midlevel Camaro, you probably will want to avert your eyes when a Camaro of equal price point drops. Why does weight have anything to do with the comparison all of a sudden? The Camaro will be lighter in every comparable trim because it's a lighter car now. So if you wanted to go by weights the(most likely) heavier GT500. Also, the GT350 has tested weighing 3790lbs. So for the ZL1 to be the lighter car(because the Camaro is a lighter car) it would have to match up to..you guessed it..the GT500! Weights in order of lightest to heaviest: Chevy: SS, (next gen Z/28 or something of the like), ZL1 Ford: GT, GT350, GT500 Every serious performance car from these two will have super duper magnet shocks at this point. That's just where we are at now and it's great for us enthusiasts. Power, weight, exactly my point in comparing it to a GT500 not a GT350. GT500 will be heavier and brute-ier..like the ZL1 is.

It largely depends on curb weight and weight distribution. The GT350 weighs in around 3700 pounds. If the ZL1 weighs in at 3900-ish I'd say it's a legit comparo. Why would weight and distribution of said weight matter which car it compares to? Wouldn't it be more how the car is built and what it is built for? Like.. the GT350R is designed to be a road course car with relatively conservative power ratings and a flat plane crank(no low end tq) whereas the GT500's have been just gobs of power everywhere pretty much designed around a drag strip and cruising as opposed to staying flat over a set of switch-backs...like the last ZL1.

Good to know! Thanks for looking that up. I wonder when they will start to allow the teams more freedom or if they're slowly allowing that now, it's just on smaller things. The races are really fun to watch with the strategy and all. It's crazy to hear them "whiz" by as opposed to "scream" past the cameras.

Monster fuel economy!

To the ZL1? Isn't that more of a GT500 type of car? Big muscle, little less track-like?

It's an interesting form of racing that I always turn on when I'm scrolling and see it is on. I think the new front wing looks pretty good. I think it looks better than the 50 piece designs the F1 cars have now. This looks cleaner and simpler. Do you know if they are allowing teams to build their own cars now? I knew the first season or two were basically 100% driver skill and strategy as they were the same cars. Has that changed yet? I knew it was in the plans but I didn't know when they would allow "full reign" to the teams to tune/build their own cars.

The increase in Challenger's numbers is actually impressive to me. It's pretty old at this point and it's still churning out solid numbers. The development costs have to have been pair for years ago. All money just going into the pockets of FCA to build more Alfas... I'd like to see a new Chally out to push the Mustang and Camaro even more.

While as an enthusiast I don't want it to be..they almost deserve it for the work they did to cover up the crime they committed. It's one thing to commit the crime and another to drag it through like 3 models over something like 12 years or whatever it was. That's about as deliberate as it gets and extremely fraudulent for everybody involved. I do think they should be fined or whatnot to the point of having to sell off brands to pay the fines/fix vehicles.