surreal1272

Um no. This is what you said. “And they might be able to move 1,000 per year. But also the 500 they sell are not 500 sales lost to Mercedes or Bentley or someone else” I.e. even if Cadillac put out a hi-po Escalade it wouldn’t steal sales from Mercedes. Now you are, once again, trying to move the bar and backpedal on your literal words. Let me make myself clear on this. A hi-po Escalade will absolutely steal sales from Mercedes. There is no maybe or anything else for that matter that would change that fact. Cadillac started stealing sales from Benz the moment the Escalade hit its stride in 2007 and a 700 HP one would steal even more.

How do you figure that Benz would not lose sales when that kind of Escalade would directly compete with high performance Benz SUVs? I just love how you sidestep anything that might reflect negatively on Benz. The statement above is a perfect example.

Why bother with him honestly. He just contradicts himself. He knows sportcars are niche and not a good investment but bemoans Cadillac for not having one. He should be embarrassed that the CHEVY runs circles around most of the Germans and that it takes $300K (give or take ten grand) to compete with the $100K Chevy. Oh and he’s been making the GLS claim for years now (maybe with different letters because Benz changes them every three years lol) and yet the Slade, with its “Chevy” bones, continues to thrive in the Luxo SUV market.

Sales have dropped in all high performance segments for almost all brands so to act like this was a Cadillac only issue is just ignorant to the facts. And again, it’s shortcomings were marketing related and had not one thing to do with the cars themselves. This is has already been pointed out. It should be noted that every Cadillac you pointed out were pre-bankruptcy models save for the ELR. The V-Series models have done well considering the changing marketplace and the Slade has routinely beat the German competition in sales while most of them cost north of $100K.

Every attempt? The Escalade and V-Series Caddies beg to differ on that. Crappy marketing has killed Cadillacs uber ambitions more than the actual product.

“Grab’em by the pus...never mind” @ccap41-Had surgery a week ago for a torn rotator cuff and while they were doing the ACL, they discovered that I had a bone spur tearing one of my tendons. I’ve had the rotator issue for over twenty years and just managed but the tendon tears were clearly the last straw. In a sling for six weeks, hence why they won’t let me drive, and then some physical therapy for a months after. Sucks being at home this much but I’ve been getting my walking exercise in on the nice days.

Shoulder surgery (and not being able to drive for at least six weeks) sucks.

Technically you are correct. I should have led with "potentially marketing" the CT5 but I figured most here got the reference since it was just discussed a few weeks ago in another article. Didn't know semantics were going to be used against me lol.

It certainly will not help and to act like trunk space doesn’t matter is just ignorant IMO. I also never said that is was the most important. That is my point. Good grief.

From the C&G article a few weeks back (and why I asked). “Rumors have it that the CT5 will start in the mid-30s and Cadillac is insisting that, despite its size, the CT5 is aligned against the 3-series and C-Class. But in doing so, where does that leave the car?” Basically I’m asking if this rumor has been confirmed because it has not been answered all this time. The introduction of the CT4 seems to squash the rumor but I was just asking for a little official clarification here.

So what will GM say about where the CT5 fits in? They claim it’s a 3 Series/C Class competitor while being larger than both when I think most people knew that there was a CT4 for the smaller size. Just weird for them to market it that way when this was clearly in the works and seems like the more natural competitor to the Germans. And I realize that some pics can play tricks on the eyes but why does the CT4 appear to be longer than the CT5? (Note the difference in length from the front wheels to the nose)

You make a good point about trunk space over the years but the current CTS appears to have a much larger trunk than the car replacing it. That’s the type of detail that will keep moving folks away from sedans and into CUVs. Much like date night, what would another six inches in the back hurt?

Why? Why does it matter to you? I just thought the details were important in the context of the entire conversation about quality, reliability, and lease terms that have been discussed here.

You should probably include the requirements next time. For reference, I put Cadillac’s below. There are pros and cons to both but the bigger point I was trying to make is that Cadillac are cheaper to maintain once the warranty is gone.

I agree. For a car that’s supposed to be E-Class size, it should not look like it has less trunk space than a Camaro. Cadillacs not the only one guilty of this but they should be the last one ever accused of having a small trunk.

Again, you are missing the point. My pointing out the lease was only part of it. Btw, you said (above) that there shouldn’t be a line at 100K because of repair costs but you said this last week regarding the CLS. “Completely agree. I actually just looked at Autotrader for them to see what they cost and you're still spending the better part of 20k for a pretty high mileage German car.. Not a situation I would like to be in for that amount of cash“ That pretty much supports my assertion about German cars and high mileage responsibilities. And sorry if I’m bouncing back and forth here. Had shoulder surgery last week and these painkillers are a bitch.

And that is where we will disagree and I’m going to leave it at that. I’ve just worked car sales in the past and am going by past experiences with customer expectations and the reality of owning German cars long term.

Your second paragraph is exactly what I’m trying to say. Benz quality is overrated and sells on brand cachet and even that is not all that great given the higher than average lease numbers. Without those lease numbers, SMK wouldn’t even have a leg to stand on in regards to sales numbers. More and more people do not want to own Benz and there are good reasons for that, reasons that some folks here choose to ignore because it’s easier to point out the flaws of everyone else. You are missing the point completely ccap. And you “seeing them” means nothing. I see far more used Caddy’s and Lincoln’s here than the Germans. Who’s right? It doesn’t matter. Fact is that most folks don’t want to own Luxury German cars long term nor do they want them with 100K+ miles in them for reasons already stated. It what would ultimately keep me away from a 1st CLS even though it’s my favorite Benz of the last twenty years.

Your second paragraph is exactly what I’m saying. Their quality is overrated as they sell on their brand cachet and don’t even do that very much given the higher than average lease numbers. No one wants to actually

Not even comparable when you factor in the reasons for such things.

Because it flies in the face of SMKs claim of quality and sales. Let me put it another way. Take away leases altogether. How would MBs numbers stack up vs Cadillac, for example, on just good old fashioned sales? Not very well if current lease numbers are any indicator. That’s mostly because everyone knows the maintenance hell that is Mercedes Benz. It’s not even debatable. For all of Caddy’s flaws, they are far cheaper to maintain than any German make and the Germans wouldn’t have the success they have had if it weren’t for those enticing leasing deals. Again, I’m not knocking the leasing aspect itself as I get why folks do it. However, it flies in the face of this supposed top notch quality of German cars.

Let me just save SMK some trouble. In 2016, 53% of Benz cars moved were leases (one of the highest btw) while Cadillac only had 41%. Now there are several reasons why Benz lease numbers are that high (with several good reasons already pointed out) but one the biggest reasons is no one wants to deal with Benz maintenance after three years or 50K miles. That is not a good reflection of quality or engineering where I come from but Benz fans want us to believe that Cadillacs plastics are bad while Benz plastics are good, meanwhile ignoring the larger costs of owning the “best or nothing at all” car that no one wants after three years so they just end up leasing them. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15347641/the-most-commonly-leased-car-brands-in-america-and-the-most-commonly-purchased/

I asked for a very good reason. Humor me with some actual stats. Not questioning those “benefits”. Just want some actual numbers from the Benz camp.

And that’s fine but some like to think that there is nothing cheap or subpar quality about Mercedes Benz when it is just not true.