surreal1272

I would sincerely hope the hell so. And again, those KBB numbers are for DAIMLER. What are you not getting here?

But you don’t buy into marketing remember?

Only goes to show that lifted trucks are nothing but "chick trucks" lol!

(Remembers living in Arizona for twelve years and seeing all those "chicks" driving useless jacked up/lifted Pick Ups") In other words, it shouldn't matter if it is a "chick" truck. Just skip the fact that Fords best selling full size pick up comes with a bed that is a whole foot longer than the much smaller Maverick. The 10 speed is for RWD applications I believe. The 8 speed should be fine.

At least they had sense enough to use the 8 speed for the AWD model.

Saw the MT articles on it. Great starting price point but I really wish they had not slapped a CVT in there for the hybrid.

Again, it’s just under $60K, not $64,900. You even used those same vans as an excuse why it was lower than Cadillac. Your figure was for Daimler.

How many times does this have to be explained to you? Mercedes numbers vs Cadillac is misleading as Mercedes has to cover a larger gamut of vehicles from top to bottom, than Cadillac. GM has Chevrolet (The Vette anyway) and to some extent Buick to compete with certain vehicles from Mercedes. And David is just playing your game when it comes to what to count and not what to count, so maybe you ought to sit that one out lol. It wasn't when you thought Mercedes had the better ATP because you decided to count in ALL of Daimler with that figure. Dollars and Euros David lol. Those numbers are in Euros.

No no and no. Your bar moving does not apply here. Fact is that their ATP is LOWER than Cadillac and as it has been pointed out, even the Daimler figure is skewed because they include their higher priced heavy truck division. It’s really that simple so just stop the nonsense already. If you honestly feel like Mercedes is so damn great, then their ATP would not bother you to the point that you make endless excuses for it. No. Here is what you said that led to my response about the vans so don’t try and twist my words when you are missing proper context here. “Sorry but since you stated already that Tesla was a "luxury" brand, you don't get to pad Mercedes numbers in with their OBVIOUS NON-LUXURY vans. Try again.” And you’re the one who doesn’t want to count them in Mercedes ATP. You can not have this both ways. If you want to count them in their passenger cars sales, then you have to accept the fact that they have a lower ATP than Cadillac. Again, it’s really that simple. Besides, this entire diatribe of yours started with Tesla and their ATP, which like Mercedes, is lower than Cadillacs despite having more $100K models available for sale than Cadillac. Basically, you have nothing but excuses instead of just dealing those simple facts.

So now that you realized that you were wrong about the ATPs, you’re going to make excuses about Benz having to sell vans and thus skewing their numbers? LMAO! The Metris at the same price as the A-Class? That takes a big ole dump on your dropped average claim unless you want to also make the case that their cheap entry line FWD A-Class is also skewing the average. Guess it never occurred to you that you already made these two claims (at one time or another): 1.) Cadillac has three models starting in the 30s. And 2.) Cadillac also has only one model crossing the $100K threshold while Benz has at least five starting above that. That does not help your ATP excuse at all. Just stop it already with the ridiculous excuses. Tesla is still in the hole financially and have been since day one. They are not that fine.

Not The Same Thing And you’d do well to understand the difference between an E-Commerce company and a car company. You could not make a worse apples to oranges comparison.

That should read “feature”, not “gesture”. Thanks again autocorrect. You do get that those issues are not a fault of Ford or GM but more a result of a quick bounce back economy that is outpacing the supply of certain components, which faaaar different than the host issues with Tesla right? Please tell me you’re not conflating the two.

Again, skewing numbers. By brand, Cadillac has a higher ATP than Benz which is actually pretty impressive since, as you’ve stated numerous times on this site, Benz has far more $100K+ models available for sale. You can’t have it both ways, wanting individual numbers for specific cars while skipping brand ATPs to point out irrelevant corporate numbers. Umm, if those people think Tesla makes a better car then they need to be better informed on their reliability and constant gesture cutting while ever increasing their prices for no damn reason. Stop making excuses and delving into obvious opinions and review the actual facts that have been presented to you here. Try it sometime.

That’s because Mercedes has the much cheaper FWD A Class to fill that slot (which is $1K cheaper than the cheapest Cadillac CT4). Way to miss the point entirely.

Again, just throwing out numbers that ignore facts. Teslas sales are up due to adding more models not because of demand for prior existing models and you should understand the difference there. Comparing them to companies like Ford is equally ignorant of the facts. Up until the Mach-E, Ford didn't even compete with Tesla, not even cross shopped. However, since they do have the E-Mach, it makes the Y look like the hastily put together junk that it is and in places like Norway, where EVs ARE the dominant powertrain of choice, the Ford is beating Tesla. Now we get to soon the Lightning in the US show Tesla how it's done when it comes to pick ups (again, more than a century building the damn things). As far as Teslas "growth, that's been real easy to do when there were NO other real players in the EV market and again, a gain due to added models. Get back to me on that "growth" in about 2-3 years and everyone else is playing the same EV game as Tesla.

Agreed on all fronts there.

The irony in both of those statements made by him is quite laughable. You can't be luxury and bargain bin at the same time. That has never worked out well for any brand. I don't like Cadillac having anything priced under $40K (although good luck actually finding one that cheap) while calling themselves a luxury brand. Ever since the Cimmaron days, that has been a problem for them in one fashion or another. Just my personal opinion.

Cadillac ATP-$58K in 2021 (a record for them BTW) Tesla ATP-$50K (down $6K from 2020 despite them raising their prices on three or four occasions over the last year). So basically despite the fact that Tesla has two models above $100K (to the 1 Escalade for Cadillac over that price), Cadillac has a much higher ATP than Tesla which means that MOST of the Teslas sold are FAR south of $100K. What to try that again?

I am sure those five buyers will be very happy with their roadster. And David has shown you, MULTIPLE TIMES, how Tesla is slowly getting knocked off yet you (again) ignored those facts. That is their very definition of being a “fan boy”.

The F-150 Lightning doesn’t have to worry about an “image” problem unlike the vaporware Cybertruck and that is also a fact. The F-150 has a century of trust and a built in buyer already there while the Tesla has to start from scratch with that and hope that there are enough blind Tesla fans to support production of their four wheeled wedge. Btw, who gives two $h!s about the top tier price ($150K) when that applied to only ONE Tesla and especially when it’s reliability is no better than a $3 grand beater car. You have this grand delusion about Tesla that makes no sense and seems to be absent of facts and logic. You have been shown actual facts detailing the many issues with Tesla and their falling stock and market share. There is literally nothing you can state here that changes those facts.

So why mention vans in the first place? Because you were trying to paint a rosier picture of Mercedes. There was absolutely no reason to mention it otherwise. And again, Tesla is not a luxury car company. They are a boutique car company and there is a big difference there. Outside of the fact that they are EVs, Tesla is no more of a “luxury” brand than your average Ford Mustang Mach-E. Don’t believe me? Show me where any Tesla is more so a luxury car than your average Mercedes. Don’t worry. I’ll wait. of t So again, you ignore facts and instead think your opinion trumps that. He posted that to prove that Tesla is, in fact, losing market share yet you completely ignore that FACT to give us your OPINION. See the difference there or are those poms poms blinding you while you read?

One of only three Benz autos ever made I would not kick out of my driveway (again, my wagon bias clearly showing here) and that is 205MPH, which is F'ing insane even for the Autobahn!

Sorry but since you stated already that Tesla was a "luxury" brand, you don't get to pad Mercedes numbers in with their OBVIOUS NON-LUXURY vans. Try again.

They have two models that have “luxury” pricing while two others (not including the Cybertruck vaporware) that start in the 30s. That’s Ford territory. They are not, overall, a luxury brand. They are more boutique than anything else and that’s no longer the case either since they are no longer the only kids on the EV block. Not sure what you’re not getting here but all the fanboy talk from you does not change ALL THE FACTS brought to you that you have conveniently sidestepped.