Suaviloquent

Everything, everything has a buyer. Therefore everything has a price. Though I question the long-term viability of Voltec. I think the new wave of electric vehicles on their way are already vastly superior - and there should be larger incentives to go all the way to electric, and lesser for compromised plug-in setups. I don't see any big reason why people who want an alternative vehicle need to satisfy range anxiety. Now it's just the once or twice a year issue of long road trips, and by my masterful calculations, fuel savings alone should pay for all the rental car destruction you wish to dump on once or twice a year.

I would have expected a bigger price drop. This GMC now is more in line with a base Kia Soerento, as they both don't come with 3 rows standard and have a four cylinder engine, The GMC costs about 3 grand more base model to base model. Given that such a model is just a formality, the real news should be that GMC has managed to shrink the vehicle and its engines, while maintaining the price point, if not moving it higher. Not bad, though the Denali interior - because aside from the chrome treatment outside is not even comparable to a Buick level or Ford Platinum level interior...

All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience. We've had two generations of Corvettes busting Porsche 911s, yet I've never seen anyone ever say that Porsches are overpriced (the options are, but then again is a Veyron overpriced? Is all luxury then overpriced?), unless of course, they can't themselves can' afford them or really they don't understand the power of developing a strong brand, that excites people to pay for their indulgence. If your purpose is to track a factory vehicle with some competence on a $45-50,000 budget, a Camaro is quite possibly the last vehicle you would get. Seriously. You would get a factory Miata and mod the crap out of it to stay in the budget. By default no Mustang GT350 for anyone at that price. I wholeheartedly agree, Camaros lay the numbers. But it's not all about the numbers. People do buy things, they buy expectations. When they buy the Porsche, they buy it not because it has incredible stats in the hands of race drivers. If you can swing a Cadillac busting Camaro for over 20 grand less, then either the Camaro's woefully underpriced, and GM is driving its Alpha margins into the ground, or the Cadillac is overpriced. And now I suspect its both. And for someone looking at GM to build a strong brand, they should be charging more. If I'm the product planner at GM, I'm screaming at the product guys as to why they aren't trying to make more money if they're assured the performance is there. You don't just build the best vehicles on the planet for a specific purpose without staking the claim to greatness by charging the fair price for it. Atleast that's what I think. So why do people pay so much for a Porsche? They buy it because it's a Porsche - and because the strong brand means the value is inherent. And if the value is inherent in the Alpha platform, I would be clawing, hunting to price it on top of a Mustang, that as by all accounts, the Alpha should by all means outsell the platform the Mustang is based on.

They already have a V8, for their track focused car as it is. I suspect it'll be a factory supercharged 5.0 You could not be more wrong about pony car sales - the Mustang has had a big boost on top of good sales from being a globally marketed car, unlike the Camaro. While I do envision the Camaro selling more pretty soon in America, in the rest of the world it's quite another story.

Well, I think the problem with that is how does any automaker make CAFE compliant vehicles? As we are told, Hellcats will not get a second generation. Ford can sell the Voodoo because it is such a low volume engine, that the hit to CAFE isn't big. But we've seen Mopar sell their pony cars having more power than their exotic. The BMW i8 runs on a 3 cylinder engine, all the latest CF tech, and a rich man's Prius FWD drive-train, weighs more than, costs double of a Corvette, has less power and that absurd cylinder count in a supposed performance car certainly isn't "doing them in." Again, even Porsche is going to put in four cylinders in their cars - and sells hi-po variants with 6 cylinders. Right now is the time between massive CAFE neutering. We shall enjoy the high fuel consuming and powerful engines for the last time...

I wholehartedly disagree. The Mustang GT350/R is not overpriced in terms of MSRP - the sound it makes is worth a $10,000 ALONE. And again, overpriced is such a dubious term. If the company is milking the profit potential, then it doesn't really matter. Besides, I don't think the Mustang variants really cover their costs anyhow. The dealer markup is a different story. The Camaro could be making more more money if they charged more for it. I mean, either we're going to see the Camaro increase in price, or see the the dealers start selling GT350 at MSRP. Even then the Chevy SS 1LE lose on transaction pricing. If the donor Cadillac or higher up Chevy loses to a lower positioned Chevy, then that's Cadillac's problem. Certainly it makes no sense to sell a performance car for less money that offers more performance than the dedicated performance version of the ATS. I don't see the $20,000 price gap being an issue of cost. It's a question of brand identity. And if the Camaro is superior, it should be priced to be superior. Because there's always the guys who say, first we'll get the market, and then we'll decide to raise the price. We had the whole thread about how the base Camaro costs more than the base Mustang because you get more for your money. So I'll make the same stand. Excellent product. Now price it according to the value proposition you are delivering, otherwise the customer will be trained to only buy your product if you sell it at a low price. Even if economies of Alpha scale make the product affordable - then even double the reason to get more profits. Besides, that's what I would do. A Camaro that performs better - yes, more performance, and then priced higher - yes, more desirable, more aspirational. Anyways, regardless... Armchair marketing....

Now the car is creating a lot of value for the track enthusiast who wants a track focused sports car. Now why won't Chevy charge more for it? I mean, I expect the SS 1LE to beat the GT350 and most likely match and exceed the 350R? If the value is there, the car should be priced higher than what I think we all expect. An SS 1LE should be priced above a GT350 in that case. Even close to the Z/28. Because seriously, you'd be getting more than the Z/28 in every aspect. Better interior quality, better power to weight, better braking performance (other than the lack of CC brakes standard), better fuel economy (no gas guzzler tax), the option of an automatic... better infotainment, everything is improved. So charge more for it. Because the 1LE is going to go after the same cars that the GT350/R also beat recently. It's assured that it has moved the performance needle higher, then my only nag is that GM should milk the car for the profits they deserve to earn. And the LT4 version might crush even the Z06, because the cooling potential of a larger frontal with bigger intakes is there... So why not charge more? I mean, like it's coming to the point that it's performing even better than the V, and all it lacks is the interior quality of Cadillac - and lack of CUE is something I'd take any day.

(Profusely laughing at 1. Impressive busting of logic by Balthazar. 2. Surreal with the excellent comeback). The G-Wagon is like the Hummer H2, except a German leather lined version of it. It sells because of brand image and image alone - while the Escalade sells not only on image, but emprically the recent one trounced every contender in this size class handily. Yes, a BOF, leather, wood lined GMT2XXX beat the crap out of the light-years better than G Wagon GLS. Alas Cadillac, we all know fer sure that there is a market for a factory built, hot-rod Escalade. Also....what does anyone think of the name "V-Twin"? What if that was used for a TT Cadillac Engine? Discuss? Reply? OKAY NO!?

Actually it's hard fact that the world average temps have increased bit over 1 degrees centigrade because of human civilization. Need I remind everyone when the last time average temps were 5 degrees LOWER than today, most of us were buried under 3 kilometers of ice. I have to stress on average. That means some places heat up more than others. Others less. What matters is that the last places that we want to heat up, the ice caps, are heating up faster than anywhere else. So it's doesn't even matter how much we heat up. It matters more where, and how much in the most sensitive of areas. Right now there's about 10 metric tons of atmosphere over our heads at sea level. Now imagine millions of metric tons of ice. Talk about a $h!ty day. So if temperatures INCREASE on average... Yeah, on average by 4 degrees more, we're damn right to believe that billions of people could actually die. It's not that climate scientists are saying oh, the world will dry out, and sea levels will rise. What they're really saying is that our climate models are being turned upside down, AND you could expect $h!ty things too. It's always the talk of people to say how do we effect change without any pain? When horses were replaced by horsepower, did the entire horse driven buggy business not go extinct? Did all the suppliers of buggy whips, not die out? Did the lumber companies not lose the business of customers that would buy lumber to build the wagons? You're talking about following the money? How perverse is your appetite for conspiracies? Scientists have to be paid to do their jobs - just like any job. The vast majority of the scientific community already agreed that Climate change is real. Right now what they actually do is measure the change. The ship sailed years ago. But Climate scientists? Those guys don't make claims. They measure the climate and weather, and they then try to make predictive models for it. If they can't make one because of extreme error or 'anomalies' they are called, then they have to find the probability of whether their null hypothesis is correct or not. Simple statistical procedures. And the null hypothesis is not normative. That means the null is usually that "climate change is not real or is cyclical even in small time scales." The alternate would be the opposite. All of them find that the processes that spit out greenhouse gases are either natural or man-made. And they find that 90% of the $h! spat out is man-made. That's like saying 90% of the earth's green house gases are made by humans. That's like saying there's a 90% chance that the rain is caused by clouds. You know where there is a big ethical concern? Big pharma. Less and less product in their pipelines. More CRO's. Lack of transparency. Some more useful info from NASA. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/decadaltemp.php

Hmmmm. The Escalade is definitely a formula that you have to look at and say, how do we attract even more people to it, without messing it up? I'd rather Cadillac be disciplined and not get too greedy, which is what they're doing, and that's the right decision for now. Don't change it unless you're sure it won't offend your existing buyers. Measure the brand equity. Is it tied to the name or to the product? I'm pretty sure right now, because they do this research, it's tied to the product in terms of what customers imagine in image of what the product is. If they can transfer more of that same equity into the name, by taking incremental steps into some more variations, more luxury, they have more breathing room to change the product. Like for example, look at the transformation that the new Acadia did to the last. It got smaller. But the space efficiency is higher so, the loss in total volume, while material, is lessened. I'm sure such a transformation of the Escalade is likely next-gen, but you gotta realize, it'll be based on the aluminum body that GM is working on for the next half tons.

But the Alpina is special - even more limited perhaps. And that blue paint is exceptional. C'mon man... and if Bentley can make their new V8 hip in their cars...I dunno.... But yeah, the interiors of the BMW 7 have atleast in materials (for what you are paying for) done a great job. You can't jump ship from V8 to V12. Besides, W12 is the best engine configuration in terms of prestige, because atleast VW Group's W12 is just a little wee bigger than the VR6. That's crazy.

I just think it's a cash grab. People wanted (paying people wanted I should say) an M7. BMW thusly gave them what they wanted.

It's focused, it's well differentiated, and it quite easily looks after hard-core, off roading customer's needs or need for the capability, even if it won't really be used. I think Toyota understands its Tacoma buyers like clockwork. It's so good, that I don't think that Ford could for example execute a Ranger "Raptor" or a Raptor Ranger all that well, unless it sunk a ton of coin into doing so. Nah, I take that back, it just won't even happen. Toronto Raptor Ranger (inside joke "nahhh...it won't ever even happen "6 rings b!tch").... Anyways I digress no more. It's gonna continue to build up the Toyota off-roading legacy,

Welp, I as much as I like a build up of RPM's and a snarling V8 salute (Thank you, thank you for your kindness Voodooo, and thank you LT1)... Electric vehicles are going to become substantially superior for the basic care variables and the latent need of the masses, atleast for passenger vehicles first - to never pay for gas ever again. To never smell gas fumes in the city. GM let alone building the Bolt may also build a hybridized Colorado. It's in the plans. It's going to happen. It HAS to happen. Otherwise, we're just shoving garbage into out air when we drive fossil fuel power cars. But yes, we also need to build a clean infrastructure. But electric cars are so much more efficient. They have 90% or more efficiency in converting the stored chemical energy in the packs into a flow of electrons to power their motors. And drive motors have as little as 3 moving parts. And that makes sense. You have the rotor, the reduction and gear, and then the single cog axle. 3 moving parts ladies and gentleman. Huh. Model 3. 3 moving parts. Huh. Anyways... I applaud all automakers who realize that ultimately, not only is fuel scarce, it's really scarce garbage that shouldn't be pumped into our air.

Hahhhh...I get it... they're supposed to do the truffle shuffle... or the slobbering salute... I gotcha....

I would get the Alpina all day everyday over this, 24 h 37 min / 24 h 37 min every Sol, 668 Martian sols a year. But you know what, aside from also knowing that the CT6 VSport, let alone VEEE (for VEEEktory) is prolly got this handled for performance cred, I'd even get a Conti before this. Yes. By default, S-Class yes please. AMG that, Platinum box yes, Sign Black Label here please... thank you... thank you Friday. You do get a V12... which why does anyone care for anymore?

Someone's been brown-nosing. Isn't often that people impress Olds on their first day. Heh. (AYE SAEY IT'S Beginner's luck). Counterattack!!! All forward! Fire at will!

Yeah, I've actually seen these things, how they -- err... (redacted)

Well, I did the quiz and I got the Ford Fusion. You know what thought? It's spot on correct with the car I actually I guess I would buy if it wasn't for bloodlust rage...

Hello there!

We're going to have diesel Escalade soon... That'll be pretty cool. However, I think the V8 is by default the best in class V8 engine because it's the only Naturally Aspirated V8 available. VEEEE for Victory, YA, Guuuuuudth.. For ourselves, and four Mother Amereeeca.

I can do lease math. Super easy. PM me if someone is giving you lease offers and on the weekend I'll do some stuffs. Basically the rate they quote unless they are actually telling you "this is the period rate, this is EAR and NOW that's the APR" is known colloquially as the "bad rate" The "good rate" does not mean absurd low rates. No it, means what actually is the rate you are effectively paying... Or if you have a financial calculator, even easier. A good lease person will also discount the payments via annuity factor to tell you how much the lease is actually worth in today's money. That's probably the best way to look at it. If your discount rate per period is higher than the lease rate, over time the value of your lease payment will go down, effectively you will be paying less even if nominally you are paying more. Leases are good if you can: 1. Do the math, it's easy enough. 2. Because of 1., you are in a superior position to negotiate, because you will catch how the hell does flat rate... lead to ever increasing payments? Anyways, I reccomend leasing because if you do get a good deal, and you don't want to keep the vehicle... then yes you are renting...but if you can get your sum of lease payments to be "less" than what it would mean to dispose of the vehicle if you bought it, then you done did good!!! Except sometimes in exchange for a low rate you get a $h!ty buyout, and that I'm afraid is something to consider.

So you're again going to be that guy? Dismiss anything that isn't self-consistent? That's again, shockingly, a trait you despise in others. Well then throw every kind of subjective category out of the window, even how a car feels out and let's make every contest one about performance - namely your fixation on straight-line speed. The wise crack about sales desk, is that for reasons beyond belief, people pay usually very close to if not more for the GT350/R than a similar Corvette. Some cars are just special man. That's all the article is saying. I'm not sure if a ILE will feel as special. I really don't, because this GT350/R also won before in the sister magazine car and driver against the Z06 and a whole slew of competitors at Road and Track. And if the Camaro ILE is better than a Z06 then that's a pretty interesting problem to be had. Price isn't a factor when you get up there - certainly not for Ford (in the case of dealer markup) or Chevy even, otherwise why would Porsche ever hope to exist against the Corvette? And then you realize, oh $h!, this car is legit. Gripes for all. And being a generation behind? It's a matter of engines and chassis tuning. Last I checked the Alpha Camaro only weighs within 100 lbs lighter that of an equivalent Mustang. Not that much lighter.

What other hidden gem exists? Reg has a mopar minivan, and he's more that satisfied...but like he said, your mileage may vary... (I like how I inserted a pun that also was factual, but more along the lines of how everyone adds that grain of salt to their position by saying that. 3 birds in one stone. Yay!!!)

I'm talking about their pickup truck dude. Yeah that other thing is also pretty rad. Now if they are going to do a blockbuster resurrection sort of deal for the next-gen like the future Land Rover Defender (which apparently will be nothing like their concept)...