balthazar
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Everything posted by balthazar
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Yay- less choice means the consumer LOSES. CTS is getting a next generation and a name inline with the new convention. You'd like to believe it's 'gone' due to the E but it's not going anywhere. If it did, what would the E63 benchmark??
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It's going to be quite hilarious; the ATS & CTS will "combine" into one replacement... then Cadillac may bring out another car.... EXACTLY where the ATS was in size & position. In other words, what appears is going to happen is the ATS & CTS will get redesigns and the XTS is getting discontinued. Which means all that is happening here is the XTS is going away.
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3 cars "nobody buys". - - - - - Let's try this:
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in 2013 supposedly it was Dodge @ 45.6 years of age. Land Rover & Lamborghini were right behind that. In 2000 it was VW @ 38.
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As stated above- Tesla makes zero profit selling EVs. Musk also claim they'll sell 500K at the end of next year, but only sold 46K the end of last year. The company has lost money for 10 years straight, to the tune of $3B on a company the size of Porsche. Do those 3 points count as 'trouble' at all? BTW- Chevrolet sold 28K EVs in 2016 (Bolt was only 579 out of that) - on pace for 38K in 2017. And by 'relying' on [what consumers want to buy and] just over half of Tesla's volume in EVs, GM made $19 billion in profit in just the last 2 years. 2016 only saw 159K EVs sold in the U.S.... out of what- 17 million ? That 159K is BOTH EVs and PHEVs like the Volt. Cut out the PHEVs and pure EVs sold only 85K. Tesla's marketshare is 0.2%. In March of '17, GM sold 6221% more cars than Tesla. Cold and hard, is objective data. We, bloggers & journalists can wax high poetry over EVs (and PHEVs), and there were 35 models to chose from.... but they are have major problems resonating with check-writers. Their share will increase, but the RATE is widely & enthusiastically over-estimated. Thusly, any talk of banning ICEs is ridiculously premature. Not sure I get your point here, Horse.
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- 2017
- chevrolet
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But almost all OEMs are developing or producting EVs at his very moment. The wheels are turning, to use an automotive euphemism; they are incentivized. Consumers still have to agree to BUY them.
- 36 replies
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- 2017
- chevrolet
- cruze
- cruze diesel
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Auto makers don't make the regulations, tho. There needs to be an established viable mass-produced replacement before the current options are banned. At best it can only be an incremental creeping change, and that's if the consumers go along with it. Look at cigarette taxing, numbers take a LONG time to change despite regulation/taxation changes/penalties. Decades and decades (cigarettes are still a work in progress, of course).
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Would not it make FAR MORE sense to establish EVs, and THEN ban ICEs, not the other way around???
- 36 replies
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- 2017
- chevrolet
- cruze
- cruze diesel
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The problem is the Germans OEMs shit in the diesel pool. Diesels are still expanding in the truck half of the market, but the Germans are pulling out (VW started up again) because they know they cheated the EPA testing and want to minimize any class-action suits. VW is paying lucratively to satisfy Gov't & car owners. Pulling diesel cars is not indicative of consumer taste in this instance, but of minimizing legal payments. Consumers still like diesels & they have strong appeal- many people chose to keep their VWs rather than have them bought back. One friend of mine did. Why not just pay the fine, fix the cars and keep moving forward instead of dumping the tech when caught red-handed?
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I towed 2 cars Sunday with my truck. When I scrapped the first one @ 3340 lbs, my truck, the trailer & the car weighed 13,600 lbs, which is 1600 lbs over recommended. The 2nd vehicle (the ElCam posted elsewhere) was another 500 lbs more via curb weights- that's 14,100 on a recommended 12,000. Trailer was heavy @ 3600 lbs. But Duramax don't give a shit. I have considered I don't 'need' a 3/4-ton turbodiesel in my next truck... but sometimes it's real nice to have it. This is the mindset of truck buyers; reserve capability, something car buyers don't understand IMO.
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'56 Ford Victoria, red & white, exc restored shape, parked & for sale (I think asking was $16500).
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The O/P is exactly what I've said on this board, back when the 400K pre-orders were topical discussion. That there is a very real & tangible gap between what people are envisioning in the void of information, and the hard reality that is going to show up when deliveries start : very few options, no power upgrades, higher pricing, lesser rebates, and the delay in filling orders. Time will tell.
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I spent some time early on behind the wheel of dad's '77 Pontiac Safari, but once I & my friends started buying cars, we all jumped back a decade and a half and were picking up late 50s to late '60s rides. I don't recall anybody getting a familial hand-down. '65 Catalina, '68 Deville convert, '67 CdV, '57 Bel Air, '59 Star Chief, '64 GP, '68 Catalina, '65 Corvair Corsa, '53 Merc, '64 Belvedere, '64 Catalina, '69 Firebird, etc, etc. One guy had a Sirocco and another one of the V8 Triumphs, but otherwise they were all domestics that I can recall.
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CG SRT starts @ $68K- I believe I read they sell close to $80K optioned.
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Another, and stating the GC garners plenty of trades from another 'non-competitor'- the Range Rover.
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More data on Jeeps being in demand for the richest folk...
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What am I missing? It's a 76-yr old vehicle that it instantly and universally recognizable from the 1941 model, currently selling at 200K units/yr. Sales have climbed steadily over the last 15 years (64K ~ 200K). And sales in '09 were the same as in '06 (82K), so the gas price spike didn't hurt the appeal at all. I don't think "killing" is at all applicable here. Enclave & Traverse, for example, aren't putting up major numbers (60K & 115K) - I believe the 3rd row aspect is over-hyped. Jeeps is moving 800K plus units annually. There is no doom & gloom.
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'71-73 Firebird Formula, lime green/ unrestored/ decent in a residential side street driveway. Brought this home today- going to be stripped & donate it's powertrain to the '63 :
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The O/P talks (erroneously) about the CT6 being dropped, with sales as the reason. We know now via JDN that that is false. S-class U.S. YTD : 7583 CT6, U.S. YTD : 5397 7-series, U.S. YTD : 4255 A-7, US YTD : 3056 A-8, U.S. YTD : 1601 This is not "losing a battle". And I would like to read the PR release where Cadillac said they were going to compete on 'sales volume'. Sorry- the CT6 is doing great sales-wise. And every car segment Cadillac is in is taking marketshare away from the competition. That's how you 'battle'. If there is only 1 worthy vehicle in it's segment simply because it sells the most, consumers are going to have a Russian-esque degree of choice.
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The mention of Lambo was to illustrate that sales VOLUME is immaterial; you can have ANY volume and survive as a business if you have profit (or, in the case of Tesla; investors & a billionaire CEO putting his own money in). This is why I will not and cannot comment on ATS or CT6 volume as it relates to profit, because none of us know the profit level on these individual models. Of course there are ALWAYS a number of other factors involved in an individual model living or dying, you mention CTS/Camaro amortizing costs- very true. Hypothetically and for example, the Camaro might be 'covering' for the CTS so overall the 3 models en total are profitable. The bottom line would incorporate all these monetary factors- they need to fold into the cost per car, accounting-wise, to make a determination. Pontiac ALSO had considerable political weight on it's shoulders; GM sacrificed the brand (along with others) as a condition of securing BK funding. Horribly unfortunately and unusual an influencing factor. It's difficult to talk about business case absolutes in an industry as hugely complex as the auto industry.
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Re-read my posts in this thread- I NEVER claimed the parent corporation as 'boutique' and I never addressed those other models mentioned in the O/P - ONLY Cadillac / the CT6. GM has plenty of room to develop profit across it's corporate catalog ($9.4B last year) AND retain some 'boutique' models in the Cadillac line (even some that don't turn a profit, potentially).
