balthazar

>>"I'm sure that's the case with every trash strewn yard then. "<< Point is, you don't know which ones it's true for. -- -- -- -- -- Lower property values potentially mean lower taxes... I'd rather look at a '63 Corvette in 'drydock' as pictured above than a streetful of new toyotas & hondas.

>>"Because the engineer didn't necessarily decide where the brake lines run in the car. "<< Immaterial to your analogy. hyperv6- good points, and logical. Hope to hell someone involved in calling the panel shots thinks the same way, but I doubt it. The current appointment track record does not reassure me in the least.

Don't be so quick to label & judge, lest you be labeled & judged. Guy could be disabled & unable to clean up or afford to. His right, besides.

Was reading up on HR-45, the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of 2009- where the agenda is to unarm the citizenry, ignoring the overwhelming counter-evidence that it does exactly the opposite of what the proponents claim it'll do. Beginning to take just a smidge more stock in the conspiracy-theorists, every day.

>>"Putting industry veterans on the auto recovery panel would be like having the guy who engineered my car's braking system take a look at it. He could tell me what I already knew, that my lines were cut, but offer no new advice."<< To diddle around in your metaphor : Why do you assume the engineer would be unable to tell you how to replace the lines (there not being a recommended procedure to repair damaged brake lines)? But agreed; a mechanic would be ideal- one who knows what needs to be done & how to perform that procedure. I just have no faith a person meeting those requirements will be on the panel.

My fear is the people appointed will be politicians first & foremost, people who's relative intelligence is highly in doubt, and such that it is, in areas that have nothing to do with the needs of the auto industry. Are there any names floating around in public of potential panel members yet??

Right- and how is having neither a plus, again?

Likewise- given the way the government has been run in the past (and present), I would vote for a few who have at least a basic understanding of how a business works, as opposed to those who have no earthly idea.

>>"Discussion of policy is fine. Discussion of execution of policy is fine."<< How about the discussion of the people executing the policy ?? I can follow this to the best I understand it, but not sure how far I do. It seems to me as long as one doesn't invoke generalized partisan sterotypes, mostly everything else is OK. I've seen 'back it up' stated, but anyone can make an argument about anything and 'back it up' via the internet- doesn't make it true... but if that's a requirement, none of these sources should be discounted merely because one disagreeing individual "knows" it isn't true. See... as soon as one tries to create a 'line' in the cybersand, all the fun goes out & unpleasantness washes in. I still vote for the manner in which it was run prior to the election, which got abrasive at times but was much more spontaneous & honest. Since there is acknowledged confusion regarding the 'line' here, I would ask in return for some lienency and accomodation until the 'line' becomes more clear.... as opposed to -say- the editing of member's posts for something deemed "political hackery" at the first or 2nd 'instance'. And the enforcement of the line had better likewise be devoid of 'partisan hackery', or WTH is the point of any of this?

Never mind that- how many, if any, have any experience to speak of in running a business ????

No: arguing about perception - a really really old one.

>>""The average consumer trades in a vehicle after two or three years""<< I don't believe it; not on purchased (vs. leased) anyway. Modern cars don't change enough in 2 years to warrant this...

Here, IMO, is how you get objective about customizing. Your personal opinion may be that you hate both aesthetically, but as far as calling them to be 'on the same scale'- I cannot see how you can equate the 2.... even from a guy who regularly spots front fender-to-wheel spacing differences in FWD & RWD sedans : Typical '70s custom van: > different grille, some molded fender flares, different side/rear windows, sky's-the-limit paint. Except for the fiberglas'd-in flares, the body is stock. One could build this in a few weeks... and in the moonlight, you prolly wouldn't pick it out from stock. japanese custom van : This is thousands of hours of fabricating work, and hundreds of hours of paintwork. Months & months of full-time, full-crew work. In the pitch-black, you'd think it was extra-terrestrial. These 2 fads are light-years apart in how far they take the factory piece, and how far they depart from a recognizable vehicle. Both may be tacky, but 1 you can no longer take thru a drive-thru, into a garage, under a low overpass or put into a legal parking spot.

At least you've seen them. I haven't- nothing close. Was hoping to learn something new. BTW, doesn't 'subjectivity' at some point become objectivity ?? Say, calling something black "white" ? Or calling a loud paint-jobbed, stock-bodied van w/ side pipes & one with the surface area DOUBLED by 2 dozen 6-foot fin & blade & dorsal extensions and 5' foot overhang additions 'the same scale'.... or does it REALLY take "expert eyes" to see the difference there? C'mon, man, get real .....

You made the statement, dude, so you've seen the proof. I questioned it because I haven't. You know way more than I do on this one. Again- would love to see some pics 'on the same scale'...

>>"yes, but you noticed the separate linear scales for torque and hp, right? "<< Obviously.... no.

Sooo... a gullwing door = 7 foot tall roof 'blades'. OooooooooK. >>"the US van craze in the '70s definitely had some monstrosities of this scale..."<< Would LOVE to see some pics....

Yea.... thanks, but this has been covered here more than once (not to mention readily google-able); I think we all know the poop on these. And you're missing the point of this thread as you get all & rush in to get the thousandth retalitory dig at the domestics. FWIW, the '70s U.S. van craze produced nothing remotely close to these monstrosities, but as a 'child of the '80s' you already know that. I know, I know; I just don't.... 'understand' the 'culture'. Yup, this & double shag carpet & a teardrop side window = virtual tie.

Just an FYI- Since HP is a mathmatical calculation derived from TRQ, the 2 curves always intersect at 5252 RPM. As soon as I read OHV, what flashed thru my mind was the inevitable reaction by far too many: EPIC FAIL. BTW- you should start calling this what it is relative to OHC- it may fool some of the bench racers for a good while : IBC - In Block Cam. It'll sound like something new- plenty of people are easily swayed by just that. Interesting proposal overall from a business standpoint, but you have to consider the media's reaction when all GM V-8s are 'the same engine' - further upping the clamor that a 'Cadillac is a rebadged Chevy'.

Clad-tastic !!

Glue-on, unpainted scoops go faster!

Biz-Zaro-World : Pull out onto the 3-lane highway at a light, a few vehicles follow. A mid-sized SUV pulls into the left lane (I'm in the center), and slowly creeps up. I glance, don't recognize it... something's definately wrong. Have a hunch, let it slide past me and there's the proof- 'Sorento' on the rear; a bottom-feeder kia. So what didn't I recognize ?? It had a manufactured 'halloween mask', a plastic.... thing that mounted over the grille & partially up onto the hood, with twin chrome-edged BMW nostrils on it. Fake BMW grilles, with a kia badge above them.

>>"Right now, no. But if Pontiac were axed 5 years ago, the Solstice and G8 would, right now, be on Chevy lots."<< And if Chevy were axed 5 years ago, the Corvette and Camaro would, right now/soon, be on B-P-GMC lots. Or the entire Corporation can shut down & just live off licensing fees for repro parts, posters & t-shirts. They'd sure as sh!t be profitable then. This line of thinking continues to ignore the fact that a huge, unknown quantity of people will not buy X-brand because they don't like whatever aspects of this. I could see if we had NO EVIDENCE of this phenomenom {cough-Oldsmobile-cough}.... BUT, ummm, WE DO. >>"Are you flippin kidding us? Were you even around in the 80s? "<< So in hindsight (which this thread is), you are here to say you are currently EXCITED!!! over '80s toyotas. Fantastic- more power to you. BTW- I have NOT defended '80s cars here from any country, you might trouble yourself to note. And yes : I lived thru the '80s. Whether or not that's 'fortunate' depends on the context.

>>"I was born in '84, I dont remember an entire decade of anything. "<< Yet you 'remembered' to post a 6000 wagon from roughly a year you were (legitimately) in diapers...

>>"Yeah, but I dont recall Toyota, Kia, or Ford ever using any form of the word "exciting" or any synonyms for the word "exciting" in their advertising. "<< You don't recall a decade of toyota ads picturing some of the most horrific designs ever pedaled, and people next to the POS jumping high in the air, arms overhead, fists clenched, ear-to-ear grin of total joy, enraptured over their 84-hp tin se-cans?? "OH, WHAT A FEELING!!" ring a bell? That's a visual synonym & a textual implication, without question. Then again, with the flatline level of excitment those cars brought, I can see how that decade of advertising would be forgotten.