balthazar

I've seen it..... but it's ID is not bubbling up at the moment. Lotus?

Oh no, newbiewar- toyota themselves say the number is 400,000...

Hudson : When I saw the first answer, I thought you had me (and had read these questions when I previously published them six years ago. Nope- never saw this list of question before. But I am currently reading the AQ Packard book. Not "directly." Not the brand I had in mind. OK, but: GMC> Rapid> Pontiac Spring & Wagon Works; there is lineage there. Were you looking for: Buick, bought by the Flint Wagon Works in 1903? That's one of two. After a discussion, there are two companies who's incorporation dates are in debate...but Studebaker was the one I had originally. 114 years~ Studebaker: 1852-1966 Oldsmobile: 1890-2004 Looking forward to the 'incorporation date debate' specifics. I don't believe that the Pontiac brand was named directly for the person, but more for the town (which took his name). I'll give it to you and Nick, but there's another. Oh (duh)- Cadillac.

What was the first car to use the "H-pattern" gear shift? Packard Name a post-war American-built four-wheeled passenger car that had only one drive wheel. King Midget Of the current major ("Big 3") American brands, which one can be directly traced back to a carriage builder? Good one. GMC What American automobile company can trace its history back the farthest (total years in existence as a company, not necessarily building cars)? Studebaker What American automobile company began by building aircraft engines? Lincoln What company designed the earliest incarnation of the Jeep? American Bantam What two (current) American automobile brands were named for real men who never saw a working automobile? Pontiac, Lincoln For a time in the late 1950s and early 1960s, an American car company was the official importer for Mercedes-Benz. Who was it? Studebaker The late, great Larry Shinoda worked for a car company (no longer in existence) before he worked on the Corvette. What was the car company? Packard After Ed Cole worked for GM (you know, the guy who designed the Chevrolet V8 engine), he went to work for another American company. He died during his employment with that company. What was the company? Checker

Let's make sure this is mentally retained people... because I KNOW I am going to read "SSR" on a list of 'GM failures' within a year. The mindset is already gelling in some people's minds.

C'mon: scion is without question a third division- there's no way even partially around that. The cars, regardless of shared mechanicals & platforms, do not appear as badge jobs. toyota: 3 divisions.And if we're comparing the two corporations directly, you have to discount those GM divisions for which there is no toyota competitor, which would be Hummer, saab and GMC. Therefore, GM: 5 divisions.

That low of a volume ain't helping anything. I have a HD Dana 60 in my Buick....

Huh; I didn't realize 'too damned clunky' and 'antique' were "engineering terms"! ;)

No Ford FI in '57- they did offer a supercharged V-8, tho. Answer: '57 Nash Rambler Rebel. Same B&S as the later, unrelated Chevy 327. None known to have been built with FI; problems with pre-production electronics cancelled the option.

>>"Of the roughly two million Toyota cars and trucks sold in the U.S. in 2004, 1.15 million of them were built right here... Toyota pumped nearly $25 billion... into the U.S. economy in 2004 with purchases of American auto parts, materials and other goods and services. "<< Observations: * toyota only assembles 55% of their vehicles sold here. * if the average toyota costs $25000, the per-car investment into US auto parts and materials and services (undoubtedly including such costs as plant utility bills, taxes, advertising, etc) is roughly $12,500 per car. Eliminate everything not tangibly installed in the vehicle and what's left- $5000? Who knows? On a $25,000 car/truck, $5000 in US-sourced parts??? And this is only 55% of the volume sold?? And some here are of the opinion that 'toyota is more American than General Motors/Chevy/insert-marque-to-be-demeaned here? a-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Ahh- wait until this weekend and tip a few, so's you can devote the proper attention to the procedure. HBD!

Razor- I know: from the rumors, looks like Mitchell's ego cost us some true heritage. I'm not so sure the '63 Riviera makes up for that. Luckily, a great number of them still survive. But you are right, and wow; I never thought of that: a GM travelling concept exhibit- that would be my Super Bowl, World Series, Stanley Cup and Indy 500 all wrapped up in one! Everything from the Y-Job to the Sixteen, make it an even 100 cars, make sure to hit close to Jersey. Harley- That is something it's high time to pursue...

Of course; the glove box indentations were only for when parked. And I must say- I've driven full-size (no: real full-size cars (stock) at white-knuckled speeds thru all sort of terrain. If you have experience with big RWD cars they handle quite well. Differently but quite well. Power oversteer helps in many corners. '60s cars are notably better than '70s & '50s cars. I've been in much worse handling, smaller, '80s and '90s cars.

HE- yeah, that's The Lucky Bastid Joe Bortz driving his Banshee convertible. Why 'lucky'?- for starters, those are but 2 more of his other concepts in the pics I posted: the '53 Parisienne and the '61 Tempest Monte Carlo. Yup- both of those are also drivers. Razor- the green Bonne Special was in private hands. It was 'discovered' in 1991 by an individual who called Bortz to tell him he had the Special... which reportedly prompted some argueing; since Bortz already owned the 'only one' (the bronze example). According to what I've read, both were 'snuck out' of GM in '59. Seems everyone forgot there were 2 between '59 and '91. Not sure but I do not believe the same guy that bought the F88 won the Special. He was there in his trademark (?) red cap but I do not recall him bidding on it. All the Futurliners were 'released into the wild' I believe in the '50s, after GM stopped using them. Technically, they are not concepts but stylish utility vehicles. The Banshee also was in private hands many decades before 2006. Not sure about the Vega or D'Elegance, tho I would bet very heavily that they also did NOT come from their manufacturer's vaults. Last time I knew of a manufacturer releasing any concepts was Ford a few years ago, and they were '80s concepts (zzzzz).

whoa- waitaminnit, toyota & nissan are building all these big honking trucks here now, employing all these millions of workers, pouring quadrillions of dollars into suppliers and local economies monthly, yee-haw for 'merica!; how could one of the world's best axle makers be citing a downturn for demand? Aren't toyota and nissan using American parts like we're all told they are? Hm-mmm.....

I do think the "Beyond Precision" will be highly effective (carry it at least 3 years), less so for the "not beyond your reach" portion.

Oh, just try telling that to the masses!

The silver on the Banshee doesn't bother me in the least. interesting theory- could be it exactly.Both the Banshees are completely drivable, yes. Nope- I'm positive the V-8 / I-6 question was NOT a factor in it's value. 95% of it's bid is because it's a concept car, a V-8 / I-6 cannot account for more than 10% of it's price; powertrain is way overshadowed. I am going to stick by my earlier assertion: the Banshee was never shown publically nor readily publicized then or since (sure: it's received some hobbyist coverage in recent years), and truth be known is just not as widely lusted after. I've been active in the Pontiac hobby for many years and the Banshee just never got a great deal of attention. Ted is right tho: it's worth a lot more than $198K, but no way more than the Bonneville Special. This & last year's concept money is going to bring more and more of these across the block. I hope that these deep pockets have their heads on straight enough to propoerly care for them. EDIT: I want to point out new proof of my claim that some concept cars cannot escape their XP-numbers; even B-J referred to the Banshee readily by it's XP-833 coding... yet I am still waiting to discover XP-1 thru XP-19 (minus XP-... and this era are the heavy hitters of the concepts (Wildcat I, Wildcat II, Starfire, etc).

I drove the car in your current sig last summer. The room was so refreshing and relaxing. I've been in modern cars far too long now!

'54 Bonneville Special : $3,024,000 (bid plus fees. Actual final bid : $2,800,000). '52 Chrysler D'Elegance : $1,188,000 (bid plus fees) '53 Ford Vega : $378,000 (bid plus fees) '50 GM Futurliner : $4,320,000 (bid plus fees. Actual final bid: $4,100,000) Banshee hardtop (at auction) was powered by a 1bbl OHC I-6. Also existing convertible is V-8 powered. I don't recall (without looking it up) what the transmission attachments are tho I believe the hardtop is a 4-speed. I have not read anything with regards to roadability of these. In general, '60s GM concepts are not as thorough & refined as the ones from the '50s, and tho the Banshees only used a minority of off-shelf A-Body suspension/chassis hardware (about 20%), they just were not pointedly engineered for handling at that point, but to impress the brass with good looks. Undoubtedly handling would've been further refined & upgraded had the car recieved an initial green light. You know the rest of the story.

'54 Bonneville Special was final bid to $2,800,000 (add buyer's & seller's fees for 'total' amount). Futurliner high bid was $4,100,000 (seller was hoping to get a mere $600,000!!!). Last year's '54 F-88 was bid to $3,000,000 but fees brought that up to $3.24M I watched for a few hours yesterday and caught all the concept cars; if one video is worth watching (and available- I don't know if they are), check out the Bonneville Special: I have never seen bidding rise so fast- it was nuts, neither the screen nor the auctioneer could keep up!! It was actually funny.

It would be an interesting twist to put a front bench in a modern luxury car for the express purpose of equipping the rear seat with a host of amenities (such as above, and much more) and marketing it as such. How about a sizable flat-screen TV? As opposed to have nothing on the bench seat back and having the whiners complain openly of an 'old man's car' just cause it has a bench. Frankly, I am growing weary of the intrusive, space-robbing center console in every car sold today...

My previous abodes are still around & not far. House my parents sold in '93 I've driven by a number of times, house I lived in from about 3 until 10... they aren't calling to me tho, strangely enough. Architecture, or the layouts of houses figure very prominently in my dreams. I can still picture in great detail my great aunt's house up in NY, tho I haven't been in it since I was 5 or 6 at the latest. Her husband built it himself circa 1912. I took a few pics of it from across the street this summer, I would pay cash money to be able to go inside. Same for another Great aunt & uncle's place up in Vermont (once an inn dated to at least 1812) and my grandmother's house in the same NY town- I haven't been inside there since I was 12. These and many other structures haunt me, I know not why......

Well, as soon as I started watching a bit and seeing the money flying around, I realized my prediction of $1.75M for the Bonneville Special was going to be low. I have never seen such machinegun-fire bidding on a B-J car before! I love that car- I touched it's twin once- straightened one of the stainless 'slashes' on the front 'bumper'. The interior is wild & awesome. The Banshee is certainly not goofy & ugly, but a very fluid, less radical stylistic variant on the Banshee/'68 Corvette theme. Looks a lot less heavy. However, tho well known it's not really 'iconic' within the Pontiac crowd, for some reason. Maybe the slight stigma of 'rejection' from GM brass back in '65? The fact that is was not promoted or shown didn't lock it into people's memory as well as a dedicated dream car? IDK. But without question, $195K was a steal- it will unquestionably appreciate from there. Joe Bortz of IL has the V-8 convertible in fine condition, but (like the Solstice)- I prefer the 'hardtop' version. The Chrysler D'Elegance is a staggering beautful car- absolutely love it. There were a number of limited production versions that had a clear kinship to it (Ghia Special / GS-1)- somewhat less flamboyant yet no less striking. Chrysler was really the tops in styling in the middle '50s. It also should further appreciate. The Ford Vega I had not known about before news of this auction. (Thankfully, there is still a few things to learn about the '50s & '60s for me). Really sweet little roadster!! Tho the exterior is a bit spartan for my tastes, the car looks beautifully finished inside & out. Few motors look more tasty than a full-dressed flathead. I really like this car overall- but as to whether it will appreciate notable in the near future, IDK: if I didn't know about it I find it unlikely there's a collective lust for it, but I've learned not to second guess those with bottomless pockets.

IMO it's illogical to assume marketing the tundra as "American" will help- that factor sure hasn't had any demonstable effect on domestic sales in general; there is very little nationality loyalty left in the new car market. Much like often is said about domestic cars, the tunda should exceed it's domestic class-leaders, not merely attmept to match them. All that's known so far is the styling from this alleged spy shot- and it's derivative at best.