FUTURE_OF_GM

QUOTE (MikeyMo84 @ Oct 24 2008, 11:40 AM) btw physical size has nothing to do with penis size either...ive seen the skinniest scrawniest boys with HUGE ones and big tall muscular guys with TINY ones not that im directly implying anything tho...just an observation ive made I know... I was just trying to get under her skin.

And GM stated 3 years ago (2005) that it would only have 2 full line brands. Problem solved (3 years ago) Now if GM would just stick to the plan and stop caving to dealers and FOCUS, they could actually make that business model a reality.

That would make the most sense. After all, Pontiac IS the entry point for the B/P/GMC channel. I still think it could support an Alpha model for sure. And with the way the market is going, again, Pontiac COULD be a tremendous source of growth for GM if this happens. Yep, like I've said before, learned helplessness, except on a corporate level.

The info I read stated that LWB Eps II would underpin the next Malibu (Or somehow the next Malibu would grow) and as a result make the cars redundant again (just like they are now) and that started the thinking about Chi. Another school of thought is that Chevy will get an Alpha sedan as well. If I were a betting man, I'd go with Impala for that IF it happens. Then again, this is all just chatter, so who knows.

{thinking positive} And that can be exploited by GM as a HUGE opportunity to re-birth the division into something that is relevant and delivers on its promise. {/thinking positive} Just like Mercury is an opportunity that Ford appears to be taking...

Anyone who subscribes to any political party is a sheep.

I beg to differ... MOST diehard import enthusiasts buy imports because either they (or even more stupid) their parents had a bad experience with an american car in the 70s or 80s. This "image" is broadcast throughout media and pop culture as well. How else can you justify the general opinion of domestic inferiority in the face of Detroit automaker CONSISTENTLY topping or equaling asian entries in most reliability studies for the past 10 years. 30-40% of the population will NOT compare domestics.

In this business, profit isn't directly related to product. If that were the case, GM would be the richest automaker on the globe right now with the success of GMT800 and GMT900.

I agree 100%. That was a lot of the problem with Chrysler in the 90s. Halo cars alone do not save divisions. But GM had plans for each of it's divisions that are apparently null and void now.

Nope. 1) I never said anything about niche. And in fact, I lobbied for an AWD Epsilon based volume model (G6) long before Alpha became a reality. I even thought an AWD Delta would suit the division well. 2) By "full line" I mean a complete line up of competitive cars, not that Pontiac needs to become a full line automaker. You can't (with a straight face) try to tell a customer that the Solstice and G5/G6 are from the same lineage. GM is the one that apparently thinks Pontiac still needs to pull volume (Despite it blatantly saying that Pontiac IS NOT a volume division, hence it's combination with Buick and GMC) in 2005. Therefore, what Pontiac lacks is focus. (Much like the rest of GM) Give Pontiac a competitive Delta II, a performance inspired Epsilon II and a line toping Alpha model and watch the division succeed.

** I think it has become ever-so-clear in the most recent weeks WHY I have taken a stance as harsh as I have taken for the last 3-5 years. But this really drives it home: I have often said that 'If americans are dumb enough to think that Detroit isn't a significant contribution to this economy, then I say we run this puppy into the ground.' or 'If we're going to kill the automakers, let's do it right' or 'If we're going to burn it down, I'll bring the gasoline.' Because I think it would be SUCH sweet revenge on all of these paper pushing, fake money yuppies to see our unemployment rate climb by 2 million people and DEVASTATE the economy of a large part of the country. So, in essence, I called it like this: The domestics are here to stay, in one form or another. You can either give them an HONEST shake and consider their cars or you can FUND those of us that still buy the cars with your taxes. It's that simple. I'm going to thank the next Toyota driver I see for helping me purchase that new Camaro.

So basically it's going to be 1997 all over again. YAY! GREAT PLAN GUYS!!! Since we gained so much share and sales that way in the first place...

There is currently a rumor circulating that Eps II is being considered for replacing the Lucerne & DTS. It would also be ideal for the next Impala. Meaning Eps II would be engineered larger and called something else. (Maybe this is the resurrection of Chi from a few years back? Maybe GME is sore about Holden basically killing the possibility for Chi.)

It is... And it did... But the key to reviving Pontiac is a full line up of cars like the Solstice. Not everyone (The majority) needs a 2 seat roadster. I'd buy a Solstice in a heartbeat if only I could fit in one. Anyone who thought the Solstice alone would save Pontiac is delusional. So delusional in fact that they should be a part of the GM board... Great minds think alike, after all.

I think I've come pretty close to being banned from here a couple of times. But other than that, I don't think I have been.

I get the typical "How do you fit in a Focus?!" comments all of the time. But probably the worst one I've ever heard was when I worked at a GM Quick Lube (For about 2 weeks) My boss kept insisting that Hyundais were actually Hondas and would tell the employees to fill the oil accordingly. Those guys were such idiots... I would NEVER trust them with my cars and I thought it was both sad and disgraceful that these people were representing GM. EDIT: Oh, and I got the "your cars just compensate for your small penis" speech from an uber hippie idiot (architecture seems to have a lot of these people) at a party one time (talking about my Camaros) I got up and started to unzip, then told her "I'm 6'9", 350 pounds, do the math b*tch. I don't need to compensate for anything!" I was partially joking, but pretty pissed of. That's the dumbest spiel I've ever heard.

+1 I'm not so sure I buy the fact that Pontiac wouldn't be included in the next gen Commodore as well... Wouldn't Holden need Pontiac now more than ever in order to justify development of that model?

No announced replacement. But they could very well be added to Alpha at a later date. (Despite what PCS wants us all to believe) That's just a product of the shape GM is in right now, I think. The Malibu isn't even receiving it's planned update in a few years and the Lacrosse and Insignia have both been delayed. I don't understand why everyone here hates the Vibe so badly. It's a very competent and stylish little vehicle that could do WONDERS for Pontiac and it's image, had GM followed through with it's original marketing/plans (Surprise, surprise... GM didn't stick to the plan) Anyone else see the problem with this statement?

Does the wording of that bother anyone else? Nissan didn't design sh*t for their new full-size Ram clone. No surprise that she is "rooting for to other team." I wouldn't mind seeing GM get Jeep.

$2.89 in Charlotte

Biased media + pop culture(ignorant population) = MANY IMPORT SALES!!!

+1 5 years is a long time and A LOT of financial time. Hell, for all we know, GM could be gone in 5 years. *IF* this decision has been made, it's purely political and I can't believe some people (ahem, Bob) inside GM would allow such idiots to have so much control over the company. I'm sure this is negative PR spin from the OTHER side of GM's mouth to try and put a damper on GXP sales. There are other options as well. (as opposed to developing a new version of Zeta) They could put it on Alpha or use LY if they acquire Chrysler, or just update this Zeta (a la Sigma II)

I found that out the hard way... Paid off all of my credit cards and my score WENT DOWN. Asked why and received this as the answer: "Because you have no debt, you are not showing a history of payment. Therefore, we don't know how reliable you are to repay debt." Pure IMO.

+1 and then some... I agree 100% GM should've never spun off all of their profitable subsidiaries. It's just a part of the slow, planned suicide that a lot of people in this industry and country want GM to continue.

I'd be fine with this.