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GM Extends Idling Of Wilmington Assembly


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AP

GM extends shutdown of Delaware assembly plant

Friday October 24, 4:38 pm ET

By Tom Krisher, AP Auto Writer

GM extends shutdown of Delaware assembly plant due to sagging demand for 2-seat roadsters

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081024/gm_factory.html?.v=2

I guess the niche is full for now in Europe and the Pan-Asian Pac-Rim sites that Daewoo serves.

Good grief.

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Isn't the Solstice one of the "real" Pontiacs that is supposed to keep enthusiasts coming in? Hey, look, there is something on that wall over there, appears to be some sort of writing, I think I'm going to go check it out.....

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Isn't the Solstice one of the "real" Pontiacs that is supposed to keep enthusiasts coming in? Hey, look, there is something on that wall over there, appears to be some sort of writing, I think I'm going to go check it out.....

It is...

And it did...

But the key to reviving Pontiac is a full line up of cars like the Solstice. Not everyone (The majority) needs a 2 seat roadster.

I'd buy a Solstice in a heartbeat if only I could fit in one.

Anyone who thought the Solstice alone would save Pontiac is delusional. So delusional in fact that they should be a part of the GM board... Great minds think alike, after all.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Yep..they are going to be lucky if they make it to the end of their cycle.....

I'm thinking not...and that sucks.....

The speculation on-the-job amounts to just running it through the end of the model year and then merely 'quitting-it'. No Bowling Green.

I think that Wilmington's going to be closing before next August. Just my opinion.

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The speculation on-the-job amounts to just running it through the end of the model year and then merely 'quitting-it'. No Bowling Green.

I think that Wilmington's going to be closing before next August. Just my opinion.

That just depends on how bad things get...

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That just depends on how bad things get...

Things have already surpassed any circumstance I've lived through. Coming out of the recession of '80-'82 which was sparked by the 2nd Oil-Shock of 1979 was fairly close to what we're seeing now, but the scope of this dwarfs the involvement of the rest of the globe circa 1980. I simply don't know what to expect and I've been trying to prepare myself for various scenarios short of Earth being invaded by flesh-eating robots. :mind-blowing:/ :scratchchin:

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If people dont have jobs they cant afford to have play cars. They have to make sure that they have a good daily driver. Solstice doesnt really fit that bill.

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Isn't the Solstice one of the "real" Pontiacs that is supposed to keep enthusiasts coming in? Hey, look, there is something on that wall over there, appears to be some sort of writing, I think I'm going to go check it out.....

So now you too subscribe to PCS's theory of Pontiac being useless?

Great.

I left Reg's "time to bash Chrysler" thread where

you were enthusiastically ripping the LX cars

apart, despite them being one of the greatest

affordable products for enthusiasts available in

the past few decades!

Last time I checked the all-mighty Toyopet is

giving out rebates and (UNHEARD OF!) 0%

financing.

All the newspapers are proclaiming headlines of a

world depression the likes of which crippled the

economies of the mightiest nations & became the

catalyst for WWII.

But somehow this turns into the "Solstice Sux"

and "Pontiac is irrelevant"

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All the $$ spent on Solst. could have been spent to bring out better G6, a full line up of G5 or an Epsilon II Grand Prix.

You may get to see something like this. I think Wilmington assembly, and thus Solstice and it's siblings, is very near the end of the line.

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Maybe they'll put the Daewoo/GME-developed Gamma platform DTS and Caprice production at Wilmington.

O.B. Stop being stupid... we all know the Cadillac variant will be

called "Seville Utilizing Korean Structure" or SUKS for short.

The Caprice you speak of has been renamed by GM-E, it will now

be called Malibu-Barbie. Along with the exciting 1.2 liter four

cylinder motor there will be a 1.5 liter SS variant. This will include

a quick-shifting 6-speed AUTOMATIC for extra "sporty factor"

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Numbers dont lie. I'd rather see an all FWD boring GM that will still be around in 20 years than a bunch of "enthusiast" stuff that hasn't helped Pontiac (Solstice, GTO, G8) or Chrysler. Know what I see out of Toyota that I dont see out of the allmighty GM? Profits.

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I'd rather see GM die than sell a bunch of pathetic garbage and tarnish

great names like Pontiac, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC and Buick.

Your love of the Prius betrays you as an "armchair" enthusiast at best.

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Numbers dont lie. I'd rather see an all FWD boring GM that will still be around in 20 years than a bunch of "enthusiast" stuff that hasn't helped Pontiac (Solstice, GTO, G8) or Chrysler. Know what I see out of Toyota that I dont see out of the allmighty GM? Profits.

Well, GM has been doing 90% FWD mediocrity for the last 25 years and where has it gotten them? Nowhere...

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I'd rather see GM die than sell a bunch of pathetic garbage and tarnish

great names like Pontiac, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC and Buick.

Its 2008, people dont buy new cars in 2008 because of a car they had in 1973, they buy a new car in 2008 because they need a new car in 2008 and will compare it against other new vehicles available in 2008. GM hasn't learned that consumers have adopted a "what have you done for me lately?" mentality.

Your love of the Prius betrays you as an "armchair" enthusiast at best.

And your lack of new car purchases (both historically and in the future) makes you inconsequential to GM and all other automakers. So I'd say we're even.

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The Kappas easily outsell their primary competition. There is no good reason why they should be killed. The Solstice Targa is coming... one of the MOST beautiful cars EVER out of GM. They need to give it a chance, for crying out loud, this is getting STUPID!
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.

Your love of the Prius betrays you as an "armchair" enthusiast at best.

This statement brings up an interesting question; what makes one an automotive enthusiast? Is it the person with the most powerful car or is the person it who most appreciates the most modest of cars?

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68's definition is something along the lines of everyone who wants a brand new 750hp hardtop BOF Camaro, everyone else is disqualified.

The Prius is an engineering marvel, and a commercial success. The Volt will be at least one of those things.

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This statement brings up an interesting question; what makes one an automotive enthusiast? Is it the person with the most powerful car or is the person it who most appreciates the most modest of cars?

I'll admit my bias is towards RWD performance and luxury cars, but I recognize the Prius as a fascinating car because of it's technology and that it has been a game changer...I think the Volt has the potential to be also. The Prius is infinitely more interesting than pedestrian generics like the Yaris and Corolla.

A car enthusiast to me is someone who has an interest in and is knowledgable about a broad range of cars, car manufacturers, the people behind them, and can appreciate them for their aesthetic, technical, and performance merits.

A good friend of mine--whom I consider a car enthusiast--we can talk about most any kind of car, and his tastes are pretty eclectic---has a Prius for the daily driver, an Outback for the family wagon, and a new Challenger SRT8 as his toy...

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The Prius is a glorified golf cart. The Volt is much more beneficial to the customer.

The problem is, at this point, the Volt is just vaporware... the Prius is real, been around for quite a while, and has a 3rd gen coming soon.

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:rolleyes:

If GM had come out with the Prius, you'd be humping it like crazy. The Volt is going to be a wonderful vehicle, but at the rumored price point, it wont be available to as many customers as the Prius.

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I prefer internal combustion, so no, I would not have humped a Chevy Prius. I will not be buying a Volt either. The purchase price v. economy quotient of my Cobalt makes me wonder who would want any hybrid.
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Hybrids still are not worth the extra money for the incremental extra efficiency. I see a black Prius parked along the street every day, and I laugh at the "Free Thinker" bumper sticker. How ridiculous it is, I mean really... it is the perfect, new definition of a car for sheep. Edited by ocnblu
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I prefer internal combustion, so no, I would not have humped a Chevy Prius. I will not be buying a Volt either. The purchase price v. economy quotient of my Cobalt makes me wonder who would want any hybrid.

Well, the hybrid is much cleaner and gets considerably better mileage.

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Hybrids still are not worth the extra money for the incremental extra efficiency. I see a black Prius parked along the street every day, and I laugh at the "Free Thinker" and "Obama" bumper stickers. How ridiculous it is, I mean really... it is the perfect, new definition of a car for sheep.

On the other side, the majority of Dodge Rams I see have McCain or Bush-Cheney stickers. Sheep as well..

Edited by moltar
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Hybrids still are not worth the extra money for the incremental extra efficiency. I see a black Prius parked along the street every day, and I laugh at the "Free Thinker" and "Obama" bumper stickers. How ridiculous it is, I mean really... it is the perfect, new definition of a car for sheep.

On the other side, 99% of Dodge Rams I see have McCain or Bush-Cheney stickers. Sheep as well..

Guys before we get political on this thread, let us just stop.

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It is...

And it did...

But the key to reviving Pontiac is a full line up of cars like the Solstice. Not everyone (The majority) needs a 2 seat roadster.

I'd buy a Solstice in a heartbeat if only I could fit in one.

Anyone who thought the Solstice alone would save Pontiac is delusional. So delusional in fact that they should be a part of the GM board... Great minds think alike, after all.

LMAO...pwned.

IMO, an alpha solstice for the next gen would be PERFECT. DO WE GET ALPHA?

if the dumbasses that designed the solstice and sky would have given a trunk and a place to store the targa.

i can buy a new carryover crossfire for 18 grand right now. why in God's name would i get a solstice when i could get a crossfire that cheap?

Edited by regfootball
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I'll admit my bias is towards RWD performance and luxury cars, but I recognize the Prius as a fascinating car because of it's technology and that it has been a game changer...I think the Volt has the potential to be also. The Prius is infinitely more interesting than pedestrian generics like the Yaris and Corolla.

A car enthusiast to me is someone who has an interest in and is knowledgable about a broad range of cars, car manufacturers, the people behind them, and can appreciate them for their aesthetic, technical, and performance merits.

A good friend of mine--whom I consider a car enthusiast--we can talk about most any kind of car, and his tastes are pretty eclectic---has a Prius for the daily driver, an Outback for the family wagon, and a new Challenger SRT8 as his toy...

The prius also looks like a vibrator that got left in a high temperature environment and melted slightly.

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The prius also looks like a vibrator that got left in a high temperature environment and melted slightly.

What's funny to me is the Prius looks a lot like the monospace futuristic cars I sketched as a kid in the '80s. After seeing the Chevy Citation IV prototype at Ecpot Center at Disney World, I was inspired to draw a lot of monospaces... everything I drew in the '80s kind of looked like the Prius, the EV-1, GM dustbuster vans, and the Chrysler LHes (cab forward, very sleek). I guess I was ahead of my time.. :)

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So now you too subscribe to PCS's theory of Pontiac being useless?

Great.

I left Reg's "time to bash Chrysler" thread where

you were enthusiastically ripping the LX cars

apart, despite them being one of the greatest

affordable products for enthusiasts available in

the past few decades!

Last time I checked the all-mighty Toyopet is

giving out rebates and (UNHEARD OF!) 0%

financing.

All the newspapers are proclaiming headlines of a

world depression the likes of which crippled the

economies of the mightiest nations & became the

catalyst for WWII.

But somehow this turns into the "Solstice Sux"

and "Pontiac is irrelevant"

dude. you're missing my point. I like the value and driving experience the LX cars provide. the magnum is one of my favorite cars. but hear this, they simply don't appeal to the masses, and chrysler really needs a car with mass appeal right now.

are you kidding me? I'd have all sorts of fun with an SRT.

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What's funny to me is the Prius looks a lot like the monospace futuristic cars I sketched as a kid in the '80s. After seeing the Chevy Citation IV prototype at Ecpot Center at Disney World, I was inspired to draw a lot of monospaces... everything I drew in the '80s kind of looked like the Prius, the EV-1, GM dustbuster vans, and the Chrysler LHes (cab forward, very sleek). I guess I was ahead of my time.. :)

i loved the fastbacks GM had then, the citation, the humpback seville and 442........

when i met my wife she had a citation. so did my college roommate. biggest piles of $h! on the road, but from a utility standpoint, they were very good. i would love a car that size today. with better quality of course. correction, with ANY quality.

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Why did anyone ever buy a Corvette over the Camaro when looking at the performance vs. price quotient?

because they wanted the pedigree and had the expendable cash. face it if everyone had the money and didnt need those two spots in the back they prolly would have gotten the vette, but camaro is a poor man's vet... and a family mans vette for that matter.

Edited by cletus8269
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i loved the fastbacks GM had then, the citation, the humpback seville and 442........

when i met my wife she had a citation. so did my college roommate. biggest piles of $h! on the road, but from a utility standpoint, they were very good. i would love a car that size today. with better quality of course. correction, with ANY quality.

It's too bad they never built something that looked like the Citation IV...it would have looked modern today even..definitely was the precursor of the EV-1's shape.

84chevrolet_citation_1.jpg

I was inspired after I saw it at Epcot Center..

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dude. you're missing my point. I like the value and driving experience the LX cars provide. the magnum is one of my favorite cars. but hear this, they simply don't appeal to the masses, and chrysler really needs a car with mass appeal right now.

are you kidding me? I'd have all sorts of fun with an SRT.

I think 68 isn't capable of understanding the appeal the Accord, Camry, etc has to the mass market. The mainstream that buy a new car want to maximize their value for money, reliability, and resale value..they go with models that are proven winners in that regard.

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They only plnned on them being around 5-7 years anyways....

When I came on-board in Wilmington in mid-Fall '06 the order book for the '07s was full through the end of the model year and to that point, only 3 Sky-pilots (good Eric Burdon song btw) had been built. The future looked rosy as the dictate from Bob Lutz was to ramp-up production to sustain production in excess of 40K units per year. Talk was that Wilmington would become the 'niche-boutique' of the Corporation. I honestly could see it. The older more seasoned workers were very competent and accomplished not only at what they did, but in mentoring the younger workers and passing on their considerable skills as well. Then the economic slowdown began to take it's toll on discretionary spending making the purchase of marvelous toys like Solstice and Sky an unobtainable luxury. Sad. I think that the initiative was lost in Wilmington not pursuing a second niche product, such as a Nomad-concept-type vehicle or a mini-car a la the Cooper.

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When I came on-board in Wilmington in mid-Fall '06 the order book for the '07s was full through the end of the model year and to that point, only 3 Sky-pilots (good Eric Burdon song btw) had been built. The future looked rosy as the dictate from Bob Lutz was to ramp-up production to sustain production in excess of 40K units per year. Talk was that Wilmington would become the 'niche-boutique' of the Corporation. I honestly could see it. The older more seasoned workers were very competent and accomplished not only at what they did, but in mentoring the younger workers and passing on their considerable skills as well. Then the economic slowdown began to take it's toll on discretionary spending making the purchase of marvelous toys like Solstice and Sky an unobtainable luxury. Sad. I think that the initiative was lost in Wilmington not pursuing a second niche product, such as a Nomad-concept-type vehicle or a mini-car a la the Cooper.

Let's hope that they get something cool....

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"LX cars, despite them being one of the greatest affordable products for enthusiasts available in

the past few decades!"

30-40K is "affordable"? And the base 25 k one had plastic hubcaps, how is that a bargain?

Those cars didn't keep Chrysler from turning into nearly bankrupt company. :toiler:

Edited by Chicagoland
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Aren't you the one who said that Pontiac didn't need a full line up, that they could survive as a niche producer of RWD cars? :smilewide:

Nope.

1) I never said anything about niche. And in fact, I lobbied for an AWD Epsilon based volume model (G6) long before Alpha became a reality.

I even thought an AWD Delta would suit the division well.

2) By "full line" I mean a complete line up of competitive cars, not that Pontiac needs to become a full line automaker. You can't (with a straight face) try to tell a customer that the Solstice and G5/G6 are from the same lineage.

GM is the one that apparently thinks Pontiac still needs to pull volume (Despite it blatantly saying that Pontiac IS NOT a volume division, hence it's combination with Buick and GMC) in 2005. Therefore, what Pontiac lacks is focus. (Much like the rest of GM)

Give Pontiac a competitive Delta II, a performance inspired Epsilon II and a line toping Alpha model and watch the division succeed.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Shows that 'halo cars', 'enthusiast cars', and RWD alone cannot save GM. Solstice was another trendy car that the gearheads think is only thing that can save sales. But forget that 70-90% of buyers do not care about 'enthusiasm', they just want a good daily driver!

I agree 100%.

That was a lot of the problem with Chrysler in the 90s.

Halo cars alone do not save divisions. But GM had plans for each of it's divisions that are apparently null and void now.

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Numbers dont lie. I'd rather see an all FWD boring GM that will still be around in 20 years than a bunch of "enthusiast" stuff that hasn't helped Pontiac (Solstice, GTO, G8) or Chrysler. Know what I see out of Toyota that I dont see out of the allmighty GM? Profits.

In this business, profit isn't directly related to product.

If that were the case, GM would be the richest automaker on the globe right now with the success of GMT800 and GMT900.

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Its 2008, people dont buy new cars in 2008 because of a car they had in 1973

I beg to differ...

MOST diehard import enthusiasts buy imports because either they (or even more stupid) their parents had a bad experience with an american car in the 70s or 80s.

This "image" is broadcast throughout media and pop culture as well.

How else can you justify the general opinion of domestic inferiority in the face of Detroit automaker CONSISTENTLY topping or equaling asian entries in most reliability studies for the past 10 years.

they buy a new car in 2008 because they need a new car in 2008 and will compare it against other new vehicles available in 2008.

30-40% of the population will NOT compare domestics.

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I'd rather see GM die than sell a bunch of pathetic garbage and tarnish

great names like Pontiac, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC and Buick.

Your love of the Prius betrays you as an "armchair" enthusiast at best.

GM needs to build Halo cars like the Solstice. I want a solstice really badly, it is about 1 of 5 GM cars that I really like and would consider buying. :convertible:

Watching a Solstice GXP show GM tail-light at the last Auto-cross to a bunch of WRX-STI's, S2000's and the like convinced me once again that GM can be truely great.

They can build both cool cars and daily drivers.

And I agree, I'd rather see them die than sell only rebadged Kia trash.

Chris :neenerneener:

Edited by 66Stang
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The prius also looks like a vibrator that got left in a high temperature environment and melted slightly.

No, your wrong. given the fact that Satty drives a Prius, I am quite sure that his girlfriends vibrator gets quite the workout.

Sorry Satty, that one was just too easy.

Chris :scratchchin:

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What's funny to me is the Prius looks a lot like the monospace futuristic cars I sketched as a kid in the '80s. After seeing the Chevy Citation IV prototype at Ecpot Center at Disney World, I was inspired to draw a lot of monospaces... everything I drew in the '80s kind of looked like the Prius, the EV-1, GM dustbuster vans, and the Chrysler LHes (cab forward, very sleek). I guess I was ahead of my time.. :)

Or visually challenged...but you own a couple of great Mustangs so we'll forgive you.

Chris :P

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I think 68 isn't capable of understanding the appeal the Accord, Camry, etc has to the mass market. The mainstream that buy a new car want to maximize their value for money, reliability, and resale value..they go with models that are proven winners in that regard.

+1

Although watching them drive down the road is about as boring as watching a walrus take a dump.

Chris

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Or visually challenged...but you own a couple of great Mustangs so we'll forgive you.

Chris :P

Heh-heh...I like the oldies, like alot of current cars, and am looking forward to the future... trying to be optimistic about the future (which goes against my natural tendency to be pessimistic or nihilistic).

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I beg to differ...

MOST diehard import enthusiasts buy imports because either they (or even more stupid) their parents had a bad experience with an american car in the 70s or 80s.

This "image" is broadcast throughout media and pop culture as well.

How else can you justify the general opinion of domestic inferiority in the face of Detroit automaker CONSISTENTLY topping or equaling asian entries in most reliability studies for the past 10 years.

30-40% of the population will NOT compare domestics.

yup my aunt has driven hondas as long as i can remember, the first being an mid 80's prelude. she has since that car gotten a new accord about every 4 years. why did she change? 74 chevelle left a bad impression. her bank supplied her with a company car. 2007 buick lucerne. i'd take it hands down over her accord but she doesnt like it. the main complaint? its too big for her.

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