Robert Hall

Wikipedia has an interesting entry on the word 'coupe'..I knew it was of French origin, didn't know the details.. Wikipedia-coupe

For a modern use of the term, it seems appropriate to label the RX-8 a 4dr coupe and maybe the Ion... the CLS is more a sleek sedan..

Yeah, but the GTO was a clean, modern design..it was just the fogeys stuck in 1965 and people that never buy new cars that were bitching about the non-retro styling...

Good article.

I saw an Eos on the street for the first time Saturday, in a golf course parking lot w/ the top down. Walked around it, looks a lot smaller and stubbier than i thought I would be..

In 1979 (and earlier) there were many incredibly dull and mediocre (awful in numerous instances) FWD cars.... from japan and elsewhere abroad. All foreign imports:audi fox audi 4000 audi 5000 datsun F10 datsun 310 fiat strada honda civic honda accord honda prelude mitsubishi (Dodge/Plymouth) Omni 024/Horizon TC3 mitsubishi (Dodge/Plymouth) Colt/Champ renault 5 renault lecar saab 99 saab 900 subaru DL/GF/FE volkswagon rabbit volkswagon scirocco There were other, less mainstream foreign FWD models imported. This same year the only domestic FWD cars were the Eldorado/ Riviera/ Toronado, all on the E-Body platform and the Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon on the same ChryCo platform. All the rest of ChryCo's offerings (aside from the mitsu imports) were RWD, all of Ford's '79 offerings --with the exception of the German-built Fiesta-- were RWD, all the rest of GM's product were RWD. In 1980, GM introduced the X-Body 4-some and the Seville in FWD, ChryCo & FoMoCo were in holding patterns. To say GM 'made FWD popular' is to ignore the reality of the market prior to 1981. 200239[/snapback] GM made FWD in mass volume in the '80s... of those '70s models, only the Rabbit, Omni/Horizon and Civic had any volume in US....

What is this '42 Cadillac you speak of?

It's a just a marketing term that Merc uses..

Wouldn't work.. Holden has no history here..do you know how much it would cost to launch a new brand here???

One a similar theme, I saw a really clean FWD Electra T-Type coupe today..

We did another fall foliage drive today, out to Breckenridge going the back way and then over to Vail and then back to Denver with a side trip up to Berthoud Pass.. great weather and scenery, and saw some interesting cars along the way..it was a nice, relaxing 250 mile drive. In a fenced-in lot by a garage in Englewood, we saw a couple of sad '59 GMs--a pale green Pontiac wagon that had hit something hard on the left front, and a black flat-top Olds 4dr..both were rusty and looked like they had been there a long time.. At a gas station outside Conifer, saw a white '56 Packard 4dr. Saw a nice red '67 Camaro SS in Fairplay...saw a tired primered gray '67 Cougar in Empire...saw a goregous black '65 Coupe de Ville in Vail, and a very clean pale yellow (no vinyl top!) early '80s Coupe de Ville...saw a sharp apple green '70 AMX coming down twisty US 40 from Berthoud Pass... Saw a C6 convertible with Michigan mfgr plates out on I-70..and a camoflaged '08 Ford Super Duty.

I love fall...this is pretty much the last week for fall colors, here though..the leaves are falling faster with the cool nights. I can't really complain about any season here--300+ days of sun per year, dry, snow in the mountains in the winter for outdoor fun, warm but not too warm in the summer....

Yeah, GM is really the company the popularized FWD in the US. They had a couple niche models for years (Toronado and Eldorado), but from 1980 they went on a FWD binge, turning out some incredibly dull, mediocre cars (X-bodies, J-bodies, A-bodies, N-bodies, etc)...and Chrysler got in the game in the same time frame and became 100% FWD (except for trucks) by the end of the '80s.. Not that there is anything fundamentally bad about FWD, it's just that GM did it so badly in the '80s, IMHO.. In 1980, Honda was all FWD, but Toyota and Datsun were still pretty much all RWD, IIRC.

The Grand Prix is pretty ugly, though..lumpy around the taillights, wierd headlights, awkward FWD proportions, long overhangs. The only thing that says Pontiac is the grille, really. The Commodore with a Pontiac grille would do fine... it's a much better looking car than the Grand Prix... I'm not sure what else could change styling-wise to make it say 'Pontiac' more..maybe the taillights? In SS V series trim, it's a pretty sleek and modern package (I'd leave off the wing and front airdam, but make it available, as I know some Pontiac fans like that stuff)..

It's a handsome wagon, no question about it.

Maybe...but the Saturn is really a 2dr with funny rear-opening mini doors like an extended cab pickup. I was thinking '4 dr coupe' like the Merc CLS..

Agreed... look at all the GMs built in Canada for the US market..or Mexico.. Razor's endless diatribe gets old..I wish he would drop it and contribute something positive..

Mercedes, since it seems they invented that strange label..

Where it is built doesn't matter..last time I checked, Holden was a GM brand, and has been for a long time...this is a GM car, through and through....remember GM is a big global company, that builds vehicles all over. What about the current GMs built in Canada or Mexico and sold in the US? Seriously, I don't see why it matters where a consumer product is manufactured...I don't care where my shirts are made, my TV, etc..we are living in a global economy, and stuff is made all over..

Cool..I'm glad to see they are doing this...this is the kind of car that would get me to consider buying a Pontiac...it has serious hardware-- RWD, V8, 6-spd manual, IRS, and clean, modern styling (leave off the wing and front airdam, paint it dark gray)---something serious and fun to drive like a BMW sports sedan but at a more affordable price point. This could be a Very Good Thing, IMHO.

Right...don't forget Avis..they need GM FWD sedans...and GM needs good FWD models to compete with the Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata, etc....hence the importance of cars like the Aura and '08 Malibu...

The big bumper corners kind of remind me of the sides of a Roman helmet...kind of jaw protection.

Because the HD's are primarily work trucks, not bling toys?

What would be an interesting comparison would be to compare the features of the Millenia against a Park Avenue of the same year... A coworker of mine had a Millenia back in '97-98 or so...pretty nice car, seemed very well equipped.

Yeah, but that's the kind of thing some Pontiac fans like, though.. it would look better without the front air dam and rear wing, though, IMHO...