Drew Dowdell

I hope the engine is a bit fresher.

A 270 hp CT6 is adequate because there is also a 335hp CT6 and a plug-in Hybrid with 335 hp and 432 lb-ft of torque and a 400 hp twin-turbo V6.... and a twin turbo V8 coming that is most likely well over 500 horsepower. This^^^ HE acts as if the CT6 is in a bubble and a base engine is its only choice. It's a shame the 5-series is only available in a 240hp 4-cylinder that costs as much as $80,000.....

The only thing this tells me is that the new Civic will likely get fantastic fuel economy in the base form and just reinforces the fact that IMA isn't that effective as a hybrid technology. .... it is not, in any way, vindication of those who are against electrification as a whole any more than GM's canceling of eAssist was.

I too miss the good cloth seats of yore. I wouldn't mind cloth seat options if they were really nice.

It's a cop out. The Civic is already one of the sportier of the small cars. Are they seriously trying to convince us that Honda doesn't have the attention span to do both sporty and economic in the same box?

A 270 hp CT6 is adequate because there is also a 335hp CT6 and a plug-in Hybrid with 335 hp and 432 lb-ft of torque and a 400 hp twin-turbo V6.... and a twin turbo V8 coming that is most likely well over 500 horsepower. So would you be in favor of a 335 hp V6 Corvette for $47,000? Personally, I think they should make such a car to expand the Corvette brand, and a V6/8-speed Corvette should still hit 60 in 5 seconds maybe less, it is a 3200 lb car. And there is a V8 and supercharged V8 if you want more.I do think though that the CTS and CT6 should have a standard V6. I am game for the 2.0T in the ATS, and I would be fine with a 2.0T plug in hybrid on CTS/CT6 because then you are back to 350 hp/torque. As far as Corvettes sold in other dealerships, absolutely not. It is a Chevy, it gets sold in a Chevy dealership. They don't sell Escalades at the Buick dealership. I'd be game for the 3.0tt or 3.6tt as a base corvette engine. I don't think the 3.6 na is sporty enough for the corvette.

Well that's a good idea.

A 270 hp CT6 is adequate because there is also a 335hp CT6 and a plug-in Hybrid with 335 hp and 432 lb-ft of torque and a 400 hp twin-turbo V6.... and a twin turbo V8 coming that is most likely well over 500 horsepower.

A 556hp hasn't seemed to hurt the M3/4 any.... perhaps there is something more to it than just 0-60?

It'll do better when they switch it to FWD.

We have a lot of new members lately, but a large number of the new members know each other from another site. That said, I want to remind everyone both old and new about the etiquette around here. Try to leave the baggage of the old site on the old site. We're here to discuss and argue about cars.... that is the whole point of the site. Different people have different ideas of cars. Different people have different opinions of cars. Different people have favorite brands. We also tend to be very fact based here. Back up your arguments with links and references. We have a large archive of sales data at your disposal to make your point. Feel free to attack ideas. Ideas are fair game, people are not. Don't make it personal when it's about the car. If you don't like a post, vote it down with the red arrow. If you do like something give that person a vote up with the green arrow. I've had to give out a few verbal warnings about personal attacks lately. I'm now fresh out of verbal warnings and we'll switch over to the warning system built into the software. You get warned and you get a warning point. Get over five warning points and you earn a 30 day temporary suspension. It's possible to get over 5 warning points if I come online and find a whole bunch of bad behavior. Warning points stick around for 30 days from when you get it and the suspension will automatically be lifted after you drop below 5. Carry on.

*mutter mutter* GET OFF MY LAWN *mutter mutter poops self*

From my friend the Buick dealer, the configurations that do best are the "medium" ones. Base models with cloth seats and few options are hard to move. High end ones with expensive tech are hard to move. The easiest sellers are typically anything with leather and 2 or more of the three options: NAV, Sunroof, AWD, Heated Seats. So why not make all that stuff standard. Base a Verano at $26k, Regal at $30k, LaCrosse at $35k. Basically about where the Chevy counter part ends on price. They must need those base models for some reason, unless the base models are all rental cars. Unless I missed my Offer letter from Buick making me the product planner, I don't have that sort of pull. Joking aside, I do agree that some of the base models need to go. I think the 2.4 LaCrosse needs to go in favor of the 2.0T. Cloth Encores and Veranos could probably stick around, but Lacrosse, Regal, and Enclave should be standard leather.

That's surprising for the hybrid as those customers seem to really like them. They also seem to drive better than the standard Civic model for some reason.... maybe because they have better low end torque.

From my friend the Buick dealer, the configurations that do best are the "medium" ones. Base models with cloth seats and few options are hard to move. High end ones with expensive tech are hard to move. The easiest sellers are typically anything with leather and 2 or more of the three options: NAV, Sunroof, AWD, Heated Seats.

The Platinum and Titanium edition Fords are just what Mercury should have been if you also included a grille swap. The problem for Mercury was that it wasn't even that. You could get the same exact car with a different grille at both the Ford dealer and L-M dealer. The last gasp for Mercury was the special edition Milan with special leather stitching. I liked the Mercuries.... I thought they were more handsome than their Ford counterparts... but premium vehicles they were not (over their Ford counterparts). Even on the rental lot, I'll pick a Lacrosse every day over either the MKS or MKZ.

No. That is not my only argument and I have given the reasons already, as have several other posters. Oh, and you should do the leg work since you are the one making the assertion that they do compete. The burden of that proof is clearly not on me. Funny how you just focus on me now when others like hyper6 have debunked you in great detail as well. Notice, as well, that no one is backing up your assertion. Well then this is where we will disagree again. Mercury used to compete with Buick, and once Ford eliminated Mercury as part of their global simplification plan, and even upped the ante with higher levels of luxury features shared in their volume brand both here in NA and even globally as well, and even stated as much many times in the past…..I see no reason to prove to YOU what seems to be well known industry wide. The burden then, is on YOU. You disagree, so just give me one simple fact that suggests as much. You can’t. Only your opinion. Fine. I am OK with that. Mercury hasn't competed with Buick since the late 70's at best. Once the big Cougar and big Marquis died, Mercury was little more than a Ford re-grille. Even though Buick played in the some of the same size segments, pretty much all of their cars from the Regal on up were higher end vehicles compared to their Mercery counterparts of similar size. Even the Skyhawk was considered a premium compact and was substantially restyled apart from the Cavalier where the Lynx was just an Escort for L-M dealers to sell. In the '80s, the Cougar was Mercury's best effort to differentiate themselves from the Ford mothership and did that job reasonably well. Buick's higher end models in the 1980s were competing with Lincoln. Riviera v. Mark series. Electra/Park Ave v. Continental/Town Car. Even the Toronado and Ninety-Eight models played in Lincoln's sandbox a bit. As time wore on, the distance between Buick and Mercury only increased.

It's well lit.... on rainy days it might actually be lighter in the tunnel than outside.

Shades of General Motors....

The Explorer Platinum being better than the Enclave is more about the under the hood hardware and the extra technology bits. I fully agree that the Enclave needs the option of a more powerful engine and some more of the modern tech bits that the Explorer just gained. However, in terms of a luxury experience, I still think the Enclave does it better with its interior trim, quiet tuning, and luxury feel.

Buick is a tweener right now. They are more than premium Chevy but not quite Cadillac. Buick and Lincoln have some overlap in some key areas. The Enclave and MKX have significant overlap. The Lacrosse and MKS have significant overlap. The MKC and forthcoming Buick Envision will have significant overlap.. .and if Buick builds the Avenir it will have significant overlap with the Continental. Lincoln doesn't play in the smaller end of the market from Regal on down even though there is some price overlap there, the vehicles at Buick are smaller.

I can one-up you. Why do people who are already doing that in the rain... slow down further when they enter a tunnel? The tunnel is 55mph speed limit, they're doing 40 in the rain, and then slow down more when there is no rain!!

Denali is the "Oldsmobile" of the truck market. Premium and luxurious without the pretentiousness of Cadillac. Something the CEO of a small company can buy without alarming shareholders.

I don't think any of those titanium trims exceed Buick where Buick actually has a model to compete with (i.e. there is no point bringing up a Ford F-250 SD Titanium). The titanium trims and platinum trims are nice, but they do not replace much of the interior bits nor do they include the extra luxury feeling that Quiet tuning brings. This is even a noticeable difference between the Buicks and the premium trims from Chevrolet and GMCs. The Enclave feels more luxurious than the Acadia Denali for example. A Ford Fusion Titanium, while nice, is still not to the level of luxury feel as a top line Buick Lacrosse or Regal GS.

No.. As a Buick owner, the LTZ Chevys are not equal to the Buick models. The Encore vs. the Trax is a great example. There is about a $3k difference between those cars and it is reflected well in the content and execution.