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  • G. David Felt
    G. David Felt

    Buick Quietly Releases 2024 Encore GX

      Buick quietly released the 2024 Encore GX after the markets closed today, feature packed, styling that can cause a love or hate reaction.

    Buicks press release says that the Encore GX is North America's most popular vehicle now with an updated interior, new tech and a brands new face / logo.

    Welcome to the first ever Buick Encore GX Avenir CUV. This blue top ranked CUV by J.D. Power Initial Quality Study continues Buick's standard for high-quality engineering and craftsmanship.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-003.jpg

    The Buick Wildcat EV concept introduced the world to this new front fascia design language.

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    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-004.jpg

    This features a dynamic, forward-leaning front-end that comes to a crescendo at Buick's new body-mounted tri-shield logo. An updated modern grille pairs with the new signature winged LED headlamps, creating a distinctive visual presence, featuring 18 or 19 inch wheel options depending on trim.

    Avenir brings the best of Buick to the Encore GX for the first time as the top-of-the-line trim. The Encore GX is the first vehicle in the Buick lineup to offer the all new 19-inch Virtual Cockpit System, offering the largest infotainment screen in the segment.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-009.jpg

    Buick is introducing their VCS (Virtual Cockpit System) as a key piece of the Driver centric, Tech-forward interior design. The VCS features 19 inches diagonal of high-definition screens under a single pane of glass, comprising an 11-inch diagonal infotainment system, largest in its segment according to Buick and a custom configurable 8-inch diagonal driver cluster screen, both angled towards the driver for intuitive control.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-007.jpg

    Soft-touch materials and unique stitching patterns flow throughout the updated interior. The premium cabin experience is enhanced with Buick's QuietTuning system helping to prevent unwanted road noise from entering the cabin, providing a serene and premium driving experience.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-010.jpg2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-005.jpg

    Buick’s Avenir trim is coming off its most successful year yet, commanding approximately a 27 percent and 28 percent adoption rate on the Enclave and Envision, respectively, as customers continue to be drawn to the functional luxury Buick delivers.

    Available for the first time on the Encore GX, the Avenir trim elevates the small SUV segment to a new level, offering customers exclusive design cues, cutting-edge features and premium materials that have all become synonymous with the Avenir badge.

    On the exterior, the Encore GX Avenir includes a unique Avenir grille, unique clear lens LED tail lamps, 19-inch Avenir-specific wheels, chrome front and rear bumpers accents and black carbon metallic body side molding.

    The Avenir experience continues on the inside, as the new Encore GX Avenir brings an exclusive Whisper Beige and Jet Black color theme, leather seats, 10-way power driver seat, 8-way power passenger seat, heated steering wheel, air ionizer, rearview auto dim mirror, embroidered Avenir head restraints and Avenir door sills.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-002.jpg

    The Buick Encore GX ST (Sport Touring) is an option for the Encore GX buyers that want a uniquely chic and sporty appearance.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-100.jpg

    The Buick Encore GX LED taillights and LED Headlights and front end are the same, the ST gets a high gloss black front and rear bumpers and is offered with an optional Black Roof Package and Glossy black wheels to match.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-105.jpg2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-101.jpg

    The Encore GX ST gets its own touch for interior appointments such as a flat bottom sport centric steering wheel and accents.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-106.jpg

    The Encore GX will introduce the latest version of Buick's infotainment system that is customizable and works wirelessly with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto including wireless phone charging.

    The Buick Encore GX will come standard with a 1.2L Turbocharged engine producing 137 HP / 162 lb-ft of torque. An optional 1.3L Turbocharged engine is available that produces 155 HP / 174 lb-ft of torque.

    AWD models will come standard with a nine-speed automatic transmission and FWD will come standard with a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT).

    GM is estimating 30 mpg combined for FWD and 27 mpg combined for AWD.

    The 2024 Encore GX will come standard with Buick Driver Confidence package that includes six safety and driver assistance technologies such as Automatic Emergency braking, Lane Keep Assist, Lane Departure warning, IntelliBeam Auto high-beams and more.

    The Buick Encore GX goes into production March 2023 and will be on Dealership lots Spring of 2023.

    • Buick Encore GX Preferred trim starts @ $26,895
    • Buick Encore GX ST trim starts @ $28,095
    • Buick Encore GX Avenir trim starts @ $33,195

    Custom orders for the Buick Encore GX will start May 2023.

    2024-buick-encore-gx-avenir-001.jpg


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    Decent appliance for generic consumers that want something to go from point a to point b.   Decent interior.  The styling is so generic it could be badged as one of many brands.  It serves it's purpose in GM's brand ladder--a bit fancier than an equivalent Chevy, less truckular than GMCs, cheaper and less flashy than Cadillac.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    I kinda like it. I see it as the natural evolution of the original Encore that I and Albert both liked. Our only issue with the Encore was the size and the power.  There are times, while I'm wheeling an Avalanche through suburbia, that I really miss the Encore.  For a one or two-person travel car, it was fantastically comfortable for what it was.  For someone who had to do a lot of driving travel by himself, the Encore was a great solution.

    I haven't driven the current-gen Encore GX, but I suspect if they kept the weight in check, the increase in horsepower plus the 9-speed auto probably makes this tolerable. Not fast, just tolerable.

    That said, I bought my Encore as a 2013 in 2012, and it was as top-shelf loaded as you could get without getting chrome wheels... and 11 years later, the Avenir model is slightly less money MSRP. (Mine was $34,9 for a Premium AWD) So they definitely kept prices in check.

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    40 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I kinda like it. I see it as the natural evolution of the original Encore that I and Albert both liked. Our only issue with the Encore was the size and the power.  There are times, while I'm wheeling an Avalanche through suburbia, that I really miss the Encore.  For a one or two-person travel car, it was fantastically comfortable for what it was.  For someone who had to do a lot of driving travel by himself, the Encore was a great solution.

    I haven't driven the current-gen Encore GX, but I suspect if they kept the weight in check, the increase in horsepower plus the 9-speed auto probably makes this tolerable. Not fast, just tolerable.

    That said, I bought my Encore as a 2013 in 2012, and it was as top-shelf loaded as you could get without getting chrome wheels... and 11 years later, the Avenir model is slightly less money MSRP. (Mine was $34,9 for a Premium AWD) So they definitely kept prices in check.

    So, you're saying this is a decent commuter auto for those that want something a bit upscale rather than driving a Toyota or Chevrolet eco box auto.

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    5 minutes ago, David said:

    So, you're saying this is a decent commuter auto for those that want something a bit upscale rather than driving a Toyota or Chevrolet eco box auto.

    Buick's quiet tuning is a real and noticeable thing.  The Encore and Encore GX have active noise cancelation that really works. Buick was the first in their respective classes to offer it and Toyota and Chevy don't.

    It makes the OG Encore a calm place to be.

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    Its a CUV....

    Regardless if its a Buick or a Toyota.  Buying a CUV pretty much tells ME that YOU are an amoeba rather than a hot blooded, full of life, energy and emotions human being. 

    But that is just me.  

    It could be just about any other CUV...but since  this is about 

    2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-100.jpg

     I feel numb!   

     

    30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Buick's quiet tuning is a real and noticeable thing.  The Encore and Encore GX have active noise cancelation that really works. Buick was the first in their respective classes to offer it and Toyota and Chevy don't.

    It makes the OG Encore a calm place to be.

    EXACTLY!!!

    Numb and dumb! 

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Its a CUV....

    Regardless if its a Buick or a Toyota.  Buying a CUV pretty much tells ME that YOU are an amoeba rather than a hot blooded, full of life, energy and emotions human being. 

    But that is just me.  

    It could be just about any other CUV...but since  this is about 

    2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-100.jpg

     I feel numb!   

     

    EXACTLY!!!

    Numb and dumb! 

    Or Just a restful Hot Blooded Human that is resting before their next explosion of living life.

    Cars were dead the last 2 to 3 decades for the most part here in America's excluding small eruptions of the Muscle class of Mustang, Camaro and Challenger.

    salt n pepa 90s GIF

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    27 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Its a CUV....

    Regardless if its a Buick or a Toyota.  Buying a CUV pretty much tells ME that YOU are an amoeba rather than a hot blooded, full of life, energy and emotions human being. 

    But that is just me.  

    It could be just about any other CUV...but since  this is about 

    2024-buick-encore-gx-sport-touring-100.jpg

     I feel numb!   

    EXACTLY!!!

    Numb and dumb! 

    It's about picking the right tool for the job.  When one is driving Pittsburgh -> Philly -> NY -> Connecticut -> Rhode Island -> Maryland -> Charlotte -> Pittsburgh in the matter of a week and a half like I was regularly doing, an "exciting" vehicle gets tedious to deal with.  That kind of mileage, through that kind of traffic, on that kind of schedule, it's all about comfort and economy.  Sure, I was getting mileage reimbursements, but that meant I wanted to keep my MPGs high, and I'd make a profit off of it.  Rolling that same route in an Avalanche I'd lose money.

    At the time we bought it, I was making those long-distance trips often. Albert had a 60-mile r/t commute.  We wanted quiet comfort. Same reason we have the 300C now.

    I buy things with 2 wheels for the thrills.

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    Ill answer you both (@David and @Drew Dowdell)  with a song and picture like I did previously.  For humour.    About cars being dead one or two decades ago and about choosing the right tool for the job.    Same answer for both.

     

    Buying one of these: Tell me you are alive and kickin' without telling me you are alive and kickin'! 

    2008 Buick Park Avenue: Chinese get the RWD Holden Statesman / Caprice |  Carscoops

    Review Flashback! 2005 Buick Park Avenue | The Daily Drive | Consumer  Guide® The Daily Drive | Consumer Guide®

    I aint disagreeing with what both of you are sayin'.  But its quite sad that we once had these vehicles at our disposal to only have lifeless, joyless pods to roam around in. 

    Its just a render...BUT look at all the fun the FWD sedan could bring us. 

    Buick Park Avenue Ultra | VirtualModels

     

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    2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Review Flashback! 2005 Buick Park Avenue | The Daily Drive | Consumer  Guide® The Daily Drive | Consumer Guide®

    I aint disagreeing with what both of you are sayin'.  But its quite sad that we once had these vehicles at our disposal to only have lifeless, joyless pods to roam around in. 

    Largely why we upgraded from the Encore to the 300C. We needed the space for hauling his elderly parents around and the Encore couldn't cut it in that department.  I am glad we went back to a sedan.  Ironically, we didn't take any hit in fuel economy. We got 17ish/30ish in the Encore and we get 17ish/30ish in the 300C.

    Still, the size of the Encore was a nice convenience for zipping around the city.

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Still, the size of the Encore was a nice convenience for zipping around the city.

    I get the reasons why some of these CUVs exist.  Especially over their compact sedan equivalents.  But sometimes, the CUV selling point doesnt match reality.   What you state in the following quote:

    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Ironically, we didn't take any hit in fuel economy. We got 17ish/30ish in the Encore and we get 17ish/30ish in the 300C.

    is a reality in plenty of scenarios for various reasons many times for many people.   

    And CUVs arent necessarily more safer than their sedan equivalents either.

    Definetely not more fun from CUVs like the Encore or RAV4 or whatever appliance CUV you want to mention.   I get that your average compact econocar sedan aint fun either, but econocar sedans also came in coupe form that added some kind of flavour.  I also understand that those fell out of favour as well, and THAT is why I quipped about being an amoeba.   CUVs just lack any kind of human emotion.   

    I do see reasons why CUVs should exist in an automotive landscape, no matter what world market, but in the North American market, for whatever reason, North Americans have given up...on life.  They gave up on choices. Gave up on the joy of living.  Got sold on pathetic marketing of overselling needs.   

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    2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    but in the North American market, for whatever reason, North Americans have given up...on life.  They gave up on choices. Gave up on the joy of living.  Got sold on pathetic marketing of overselling needs. 

    There's nothing fun about driving most of the time anymore.... that's probably why. What's the point of some high-powered coupe when you're just going to be stuck behind some semi-truck or a dolt in a Corolla in the left lane with their blinker on?  I have gotten pretty aggressive of late of high-beaming people who park in the left lane at slow speeds. The driving skills have really dropped, especially since covid started.

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    26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    There's nothing fun about driving most of the time anymore.... that's probably why

    No argument there, that is for sure!  Our roads are clogged up with traffic. Some parts of the US and in Canada, true for Montreal, the roads are disgustingly bad full of cracks and pot holes.  Dangerous when driving spiritedly let alone quickly.  You mention it later on: the driving IQ and skills is not just lacking, its NON-EXISTENT!

     

    26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    you're just going to be stuck behind some semi-truck or a dolt in a Corolla in the left lane with their blinker on?  I have gotten pretty aggressive of late of high-beaming people who park in the left lane at slow speeds. The driving skills have really dropped, especially since covid started.

     

    But regarding this quote:

    26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    What's the point of some high-powered coupe------------------------------------- or a dolt in a Corolla in the left lane

    I wasnt really talking about a high-powered coupe.

    But this was a also a Corolla once upon a time ago.  Sure it was more peppy than a regular (4 door or regular coupe) Corolla, but it sure wasnt a Trans Am or Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo of the era either.  

    1988 - 1992 Toyota Corolla [Sixth (6th) Generation] - Toyota USA Newsroom

     

    There was also this

    Honda CRX For Sale - BaT Auctions

    and another version 

    Used Honda Civic review: 1990-1995 | CarsGuide

    and this

    1986-1988 Nissan Sentra Sports Coupe: The Look of Performance | Autopolis

     

    And even this.  My girlfriend at the time had one. Manual.  She taught me to drive manual in that car.   

    Top 10 Turbocharged Cars that Weren't Very Powerful - 4/10

     

    And its weird.  We want the CUV to carry friends and stuff, but back in the day, with smaller cars and many many MORE friends, we found ways to fit in and go where we needed to go with these small econo cars.  Today, the youth, nor the slightly more older folk, drive CUVs, but the CUVs are almost always EMPTY...   Like I said, North Americans were bamboozled and were oversold on the need for a CUV.  Its too bad.  Because cars,  although slower, a LOT slower, were much much more fun back in the day.    And when I mean fun, I mean fun in many many ways.   Different styles.  A plethora of colours....     The modern CUV is just so...so...common.  Not only common by the sheer numbers, but common as there is NO diversity in styling. 

    1990-94 Pontiac Sunbird | Consumer Guide Auto

    The Original Sentra SE-R Is the Forgotten Performance Nissan You Should Buy  Now

    1990 Chevrolet Beretta GT Pace Car Edition | U102 | Kissimmee 2019

    Used 1990 Ford Escort for Sale Near Me | Edmunds

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    @oldshurst442 You love performance cars, I get that and respect it. 

    Yet that same car does not fit me. I love Performance and I get it in my SS.

    20200719_194051.jpg

    Which I bought for my wife who loves the mid size, power and awd as much as I do.

    20210430_101237.jpg

    Course then I have my very first SUV I ever bought, my 1984 GMC Suburban SLE which I rebuilt the 350 into a 402 putting out 505hp / 551 lb-ft of torque and hauls ass. Taught my son how to do burn outs in it.

    20210414_095242.jpg

    Then like @Drew Dowdell I have the quiet, comfy road trip auto, my Escalade ESV.

    20201214_081421.jpg

    To me there has been nothing exciting since Cadillac brought the V series back in their cars for the last almost 4 decades. I love the outdoors and SUVs give that access to me in comfort, performance and fun with space.

    We both find out auto love where it fits our lifestyle. Why autos now are considered lifestyle vehicles.

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    45 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    I do see reasons why CUVs should exist in an automotive landscape, no matter what world market, but in the North American market, for whatever reason, North Americans have given up...on life.  They gave up on choices. Gave up on the joy of living.  Got sold on pathetic marketing of overselling needs.   

    Totally disagree, humans have NOT given up on the joy of Living, they gave up on an outdated idea of a performance car on empty highways and blasting at high speeds all over. The freedom sedan to just get out and drive is now replaced by the lifestyle auto to go places and see the world.

    Society has found the joy of their lifestyle and the Car does not support that much anymore in comparison to CUV/SUV/Truck. Be it getting outside on hikes especially due to Covid, camping, winter sports, summer sports, etc. I see plenty of humans enjoying the joy of living but that is outside as a lifestyle choice where the car does not meet the needs of the soccer, football, basketball, surfing, etc. sports family. 

     

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    @David

    Yet...of all your  personal vehicles you just posted...NONE are CUVs!!!

    NOT the Trailblazer SS.  NOT the Yukon. NOT the 'Slade. 

    The ONE criteria you have, which is to fit, not ONE CUV past or present that you could fit in.    

    Of ALL the econocars I posted....NONE are performance cars...

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    19 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    No argument there, that is for sure!  Our roads are clogged up with traffic. Some parts of the US and in Canada, true for Montreal, the roads are disgustingly bad full of cracks and pot holes.  Dangerous when driving spiritedly let alone quickly.  You mention it later on: the driving IQ and skills is not just lacking, its NON-EXISTENT!

     

     

    But regarding this quote:

    I wasnt really talking about a high-powered coupe.

    But this was a also a Corolla once upon a time ago.  Sure it was more peppy than a regular (4 door or regular coupe) Corolla, but it sure wasnt a Trans Am or Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo of the era either.  

    1988 - 1992 Toyota Corolla [Sixth (6th) Generation] - Toyota USA Newsroom

     

    There was also this

    Honda CRX For Sale - BaT Auctions

    and another version 

    Used Honda Civic review: 1990-1995 | CarsGuide

    and this

    1986-1988 Nissan Sentra Sports Coupe: The Look of Performance | Autopolis

     

    And even this.  My girlfriend at the time had one. Manual.  She taught me to drive manual in that car.   

    Top 10 Turbocharged Cars that Weren't Very Powerful - 4/10

     

    And its weird.  We want the CUV to carry friends and stuff, but back in the day, with smaller cars and many many MORE friends, we found ways to fit in and go where we needed to go with these small econo cars.  Today, the youth, nor the slightly more older folk, drive CUVs, but the CUVs are almost always EMPTY...   Like I said, North Americans were bamboozled and were oversold on the need for a CUV.  Its too bad.  Because cars,  although slower, a LOT slower, were much much more fun back in the day.    And when I mean fun, I mean fun in many many ways.   Different styles.  A plethora of colours....     The modern CUV is just so...so...common.  Not only common by the sheer numbers, but common as there is NO diversity in styling. 

    1990-94 Pontiac Sunbird | Consumer Guide Auto

    The Original Sentra SE-R Is the Forgotten Performance Nissan You Should Buy  Now

    1990 Chevrolet Beretta GT Pace Car Edition | U102 | Kissimmee 2019

    Used 1990 Ford Escort for Sale Near Me | Edmunds

     

    None of those cars inspire me to drive them. I would take my 76 Luv Truck over all of them.

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    Just now, David said:

    Totally disagree, humans have NOT given up on the joy of Living, they gave up on an outdated idea of a performance car on empty highways and blasting at high speeds all over. The freedom sedan to just get out and drive is now replaced by the lifestyle auto to go places and see the world.

    Society has found the joy of their lifestyle and the Car does not support that much anymore in comparison to CUV/SUV/Truck. Be it getting outside on hikes especially due to Covid, camping, winter sports, summer sports, etc. I see plenty of humans enjoying the joy of living but that is outside as a lifestyle choice where the car does not meet the needs of the soccer, football, basketball, surfing, etc. sports family. 

     

    It's a much deeper philosophical debate, but I side with @oldshurst442 on this one. People are too caught up in the rat race of just trying to keep their heads above water financially in this economy (everything since 1980, not just the last few years).

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    1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

    @David

    Yet...of all your  personal vehicles you just posted...NONE are CUVs!!!

    NOT the Trailblazer SS.  NOT the Yukon. NOT the 'Slade. 

    The ONE criteria you have, which is to fit, not ONE CUV past or present that you could fit in.    

    Of ALL the econocars I posted....NONE are performance cars...

    The reason they were zippy with 90 horsepower was that they were made of paper they were so light. Get in an accident, and they wouldn't bother extracting you. They'd just send the whole wreck to the junkyard and have you turned into a cube of steel and bury you that way.

    Say what you will about the Encore and the Sonic on which it was based, they are incredibly safe vehicles. The whole platform was one of the safest GM ever built. But that's why the Encore, shorter than any of the cars you listed, clocks in at 3,358 lbs .. probably 1,300 lbs more than most of those cars.

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    3 minutes ago, David said:

    Totally disagree, humans have NOT given up on the joy of Living, they gave up on an outdated idea of a performance car on empty highways and blasting at high speeds all over. The freedom sedan to just get out and drive is now replaced by the lifestyle auto to go places and see the world.

    Society has found the joy of their lifestyle and the Car does not support that much anymore in comparison to CUV/SUV/Truck. Be it getting outside on hikes especially due to Covid, camping, winter sports, summer sports, etc. I see plenty of humans enjoying the joy of living but that is outside as a lifestyle choice where the car does not meet the needs of the soccer, football, basketball, surfing, etc. sports family. 

     

    I NEVER once mentioned PERFORMANCE...

    NONE of the vehicles I posted are of the fast variety. ALL are of the econocar variety.  ALL of those vehicles I posted, other than the Toyota GT-S, every single one of them...were the SLOWEST of ANY car during that time... 

    You dont need a CUV to go hiking.  You dont need a CUV to play sports.  I rented a Daewoo Matiz in 2001 (google it) and it went EVERYWHERE I asked of it on the island of where my mom came from in Greece.  All donkey trails going up mountian sides, parking it and hiking up to other parts where NO car can go.  With a 1.4 liter 75 HP engine I think....  The thing was a blast.  The Matiz was NOT a CUV...  It was a hatchback, but it wasnt a CUV...

    And it was spacious.  I bet even YOU could have fit inside it...  

    The joy of living statement ha nothing to do about what one does to pass his time.  The joy of living statement simply means, the North American has let corporations dictate to him what he needs to buy. Therefore he gave up his choices and let corporate execs decide what for him.  His free will he gave up. And the joy of living is having free will... 

    9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    t's a much deeper philosophical debate

    I actually made philosophical point.  LOL

    4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The reason they were zippy with 90 horsepower was that they were made of paper they were so light. Get in an accident, and they wouldn't bother extracting you. They'd just send the whole wreck to the junkyard and have you turned into a cube of steel and bury you that way.

    Say what you will about the Encore and the Sonic on which it was based, they are incredibly safe vehicles. The whole platform was one of the safest GM ever built. But that's why the Encore, shorter than any of the cars you listed, clocks in at 3,358 lbs .. probably 1,300 lbs more than most of those cars.

    Point very well made and taken!!! 

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    20 minutes ago, David said:

    None of those cars inspire me to drive them. I would take my 76 Luv Truck over all of them.

    I never told you to buy those.    

    1976 Chevrolet Luv | Worldwide Vintage Autos

    But...that is STILL not a CUV...

    THAT is still a fun, joyfilled vehicle.   And its probably got the LEAST horsepower and is slower than the slowest car I posted... 

    And...

    THAT is eons away from what an Encore represents...

    In essence, you agree with me.  

     

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    @David

    Yet...of all your  personal vehicles you just posted...NONE are CUVs!!!

    NOT the Trailblazer SS.  NOT the Yukon. NOT the 'Slade. 

    The ONE criteria you have, which is to fit, not ONE CUV past or present that you could fit in.    

    Of ALL the econocars I posted....NONE are performance cars...

    Yet some do consider the Corolla GT-S and Beretta performance cars for their segment.

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    It’s about step in height.  Old people have a hard time getting in and out of sedans so they like these crossovers with a seat height that is same to their hips.

    And I guess there must still be some old people around that want a Buick.  This brand is almost pointless now in North America otherwise.

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    52 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    I never told you to buy those.    

    1976 Chevrolet Luv | Worldwide Vintage Autos

    But...that is STILL not a CUV...

    THAT is still a fun, joyfilled vehicle.   And its probably got the LEAST horsepower and is slower than the slowest car I posted... 

    And...

    THAT is eons away from what an Encore represents...

    In essence, you agree with me.  

     

    True, much of this philosophical debate circles around financial keeping up with the jones versus living within ones means and enjoying to the maximum what one can afford and live with.

    While yes you are correct my friend that none of mine are CUVs, they are SUVs and are fun to drive. I do believe there are some CUVs that are fun to drive, but off the top of my head I cannot think after just finishing up a long day of writing a new Hands On Lab for our Trade Show in May in Vegas, so I think I would have to say that some of the German Performance CUVs might just be a hoot to drive even for the segment they are.

    Overall, the driving for the pure joy of driving is lost on the majority of Lemmings who get a license. AKA Prius owners, or heck just about any one who buys any auto and then farts along in the left lane at 40, 20 under the posted 60 MPH speed limit here and to make matters worse, we seem to have gotten a group of new idiot drivers who think driving in the left lane, 20 under with their hazards on is safe driving. 🤬

    At this point, my bottle of wine is calling me and a movie. Good night all, check in tomorrow. 🍷

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    1 minute ago, David said:

    do believe there are some CUVs that are fun to drive,

    none are.

     

    1 minute ago, David said:

    but off the top of my head I cannot think after just finishing up a long day of writing

    lol.  nothing to do with your long day at work.  You cant think of any 'cause there arent any!!!

     

    2 minutes ago, David said:

    Overall, the driving for the pure joy of driving is lost on the majority of Lemmings who get a license

    lol.  We agree 100% there!!!

    3 minutes ago, David said:

    At this point, my bottle of wine is calling me and a movie. Good night all, check in tomorrow. 🍷

    ENJOY my friend!!!  

    You deserve it.

    1. long day at work

    2. having to endure ME on the internet.  LOL.

    Good Night see ya tomorrow!  

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    @oldshurst442 I will say that I am excited for the Blazer SS AWD EV. This could be a hoot to drive as right now they are estimating 557 horsepower in AWD form for a cuv and that totally beats my Trailblazer SS body on frame fun auto.

    2008 Trailblazer SS AWD 400hp/400 lb-ft of torque mid-size suv

    • 173.5-inch overall length
    • 113-inch wheelbase length
    • 74.7-inch overall width
    • 67.83-inch height
    • 7.82-inch ground clearance
    • 0 to 60 mph in 9.4 seconds

    2024 Blazer SS AWD EV 557hp/648 lb-ft of torque mid-size cuv

    • ????-inch overall length
    • ????-inch wheelbase
    • ????-inch overall width
    • ????-inch height
    • ????-inch ground clearance
    • 0 to 60 mph in under 4 seconds

    Comparing this to the Blazer RS ICE version 

    • 191.88-inch overall length
    • 112.7-inch wheelbase
    • 76.7-inch overall width
    • 67-inch overlength
    • 7.60-inch ground clearance
    • 0 to 60 mph in under 4 seconds

    While I have not found firm specifications, but in interviews, Chevrolet has said it will come in around the same size as the Blazer RS ICE CUV.

    This puts it in the same ballpark as my SS and might be a good fit for my wife.

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    We lost a bunch of posts due to a database

    Best Tesla Model 3 Crash GIFs | Gfycat

    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    crash

    Tesla Model 3 Drives Straight Into Overturned Truck In What Seems To Be  Autopilot Failure

     

    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Sorry

    Canada Sorry GIFs | Tenor

     

    Thanx for the effort Drew! 

    Whatever it may be, blame it on the rain.

     

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    I‘m leaving the pics in the article unfixed for now. The company that makes this software is using this post to diagnose the underlying problem that caused this to happen. I have an open ticket with them.

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    I could get behind the Encore GX more if it had the 1.5 litre four cylinder from the GMC Terrain in it.  At least as an option.  That would also probably get better real world MPG than the wheezer 3 popper.

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    1 hour ago, regfootball said:

    I could get behind the Encore GX more if it had the 1.5 litre four cylinder from the GMC Terrain in it.  At least as an option.  That would also probably get better real world MPG than the wheezer 3 popper.

    While I love saving gas, I am all for having a little extra omf under the hood. Example is my daughters 1999 Durango with the 5.9L V8 in her 4x4 that they then made it an AWD RT edition for 2000 and removed the 5.8L from the 4x4 option list in 2000 with a smaller V8 in the 4x4 model. She is over 300,000 miles and while the auto is old and not as fast as it used to be, with maintenance, it is still running strong and moves way better than an equal Durango that has the V6 or smaller V8 engines.

    I believe the Encore GX with a little more omf, aka bigger engine, extra piston would be what I would want if I could fit and drive one. The 3 cylinder motors I have not seen great history with them, but then it could also be my limited exposure to them since everything I drive and have owned have always been V8 SUVs/Trucks.

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    21 hours ago, David said:

    While I love saving gas, I am all for having a little extra omf under the hood. Example is my daughters 1999 Durango with the 5.9L V8 in her 4x4 that they then made it an AWD RT edition for 2000 and removed the 5.8L from the 4x4 option list in 2000 with a smaller V8 in the 4x4 model. She is over 300,000 miles and while the auto is old and not as fast as it used to be, with maintenance, it is still running strong and moves way better than an equal Durango that has the V6 or smaller V8 engines.

    I believe the Encore GX with a little more omf, aka bigger engine, extra piston would be what I would want if I could fit and drive one. The 3 cylinder motors I have not seen great history with them, but then it could also be my limited exposure to them since everything I drive and have owned have always been V8 SUVs/Trucks.

    these little cars get good spa ratings with the smaller motors but in real world they struggle to get that mpg at 75 mpg on the interstate if the car is underpowered.  A car like the Encore GX with just a bit more boost for those top end speeds like the 1.5 liter from the Terrain is likely to get same or better mpg on the highway and probably not any less in normal city driving either.  Once the weight of the vehicle increases and the drag increases like it does with CUV's vs sedans, that has a bigger impact on fuel economy than anything.

    There were times I pulled 54 mpg over a 25 or 50 mile stretch in my 1.5 turbo Malibu in optimal conditions.  But that was a sedan, low and aerodynamic with front drive only.  The 1.5 was the best combo for high mpg on that car.  On an all wheel drive, tall chunky crossover like the Encore, you see that the highway mpg is most often only a few mpg more than the city.  The tiny 3 cylinder is working too hard at higher speeds to push that less aerodynamic, drag ridden ridden vehicle with that little displacement.  In the real world a 1.5 would get the same mpg I bet.  If less, maybe 1 mpg only.

    Edited by regfootball
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    On 2/17/2023 at 7:32 PM, oldshurst442 said:

    2008 Buick Park Avenue: Chinese get the RWD Holden Statesman / Caprice |  Carscoops

    What is this?  It's not badged.  It has some reference to the "Police Caprice."

    Is that a tri-shield logo I see in the center caps?  Mostly, I like it.  It's the sort of sled I could see myself driving.

    - - - - -

    As for the new Encore, there is styling improvement both inside and out.  I don't know how much I like it.  Wow ... 1.2 liters?  That's 72 c.i., more or  less.  And that's all the MPG it gets?

    I like the way Buick is inscribed on the rear, below the new tri-shield logo.  It doesn't look bad.

    They photographed it in some sunny location.  I still don't know if it's for us, the Chinese, others, or some combo of the above.

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    3 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

    What is this?  It's not badged.  It has some reference to the "Police Caprice."

    Is that a tri-shield logo I see in the center caps?  Mostly, I like it.  It's the sort of sled I could see myself driving.

    - - - - -

     

    That's a Buick Park Avenue.  Chinese market version of the Holden Caprice, was sold from '07-12.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    6 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    That's a Buick Park Avenue.  Chinese market version of the Holden Caprice, was sold from '07-12.

    I always assumed China and its cities were crowded and compact (with sprawl) and that that would not incentivize owning large cars.  I guess I'm wrong.

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    8 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

    I always assumed China and its cities were crowded and compact (with sprawl) and that that would not incentivize owning large cars.  I guess I'm wrong.

    No. You would be correct in your thinking.  But...the rich Chinese oligarchy types dont live with the commoners so the rules and shytty standard of living dont apply to them. So...that is how big cars in China exist.  

     

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    • "Tired of the Voom, Voom, Voom of a performance Borla exhaust, ... " Nope. 
    • Tired of the Voom, Voom, Voom of a performance Borla exhaust, the wife asked for a new ride. This is my journey of what I experienced in working to buy/lease an EV in 2024. Let me first start off by saying that I am in no way a normal sized human. At 6 foot 6 inches 300 lbs with a 40 inch long legs, I am much larger and big bone than most Americans. My wife being of Korean descent is also larger than most at 5 foot 8 inches compared to the average female height of 5 foot in Korea. The USA census has the average female at 5 foot 4 inches tall and the average male at 5 foot 9 inches tall. With this knowledge of size, subcompacts, compacts are totally out of the question. I know mid-size to full-size is where our EV choices will be. My journey started with me asking myself, what are the Pro's and Cons of buying versus leasing an Electric Vehicle (EV). This image above pretty much wraps up what I came up with for leasing versus buying an EV and there was just one last thing to consider, technology. Battery Technology, controller boards and software are all in their infancy and as such will be probably changing greatly over the next few years. Do I take on the risk of buying and having the OEM stop updates to my EV or do I lease and go with trading it in and getting current technology in a new EV two or three years later? 2023 was an explosive year for auto companies as everyone was pushing to get an EV on the marketplace. Some made it with less than stellar results and others delivered. Trucks, SUVs and cars pretty much allowed one to have a selection of what style of EV they wanted. For my wife and I we had already decided to ignore the cars and focus on the SUVs and Trucks. With that in mind we made up the following list of EV companies to consider. BMW Cadillac Ford Genesis Hyundai Kia Mercedes Rivian Tesla A busy weekend ensued and the experiences of driving so many different EVs showed where some succeeded and others fell short. Clearly some are still holding onto ICE (internal combustion engine) legacy engineering approach and others delivered on what is called a clean sheet design. Here was our weekend experience with the following brands: BMW - iX was a nice drive, interface experience was fine, it actually had plenty of room in the front, a little tighter in the back but for short drives, another person my size could sit behind me and would be fine. Exterior is a styling love / hate experience. Wife is not a fan of the huge kidney bean grill; she said it looked like a pig nose on steroids. The side profile was fine, and the back end looked like it was pinched in molding the design. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, overall, it would still be considered. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Cadillac - Lyriq was the quietest drive of the day, Cadillac has nailed it, fast, solid and overall, a luxury EV ride. Interior over all was good, a little tight on head space with the sky roof, but the seat goes down far enough to adjust for that, interface of the dash was good. Android Auto / Apple Carplay is supported for the 2024 model year but is supposedly going away for the 2025 model year being replaced with the GM play store. Exterior styling my wife was fine with, better front end looks than the BMW. Would be on the consideration list. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Ford - Test drove an F150 Lighting and the Mach e, interior was fine, she liked the space and comfort. Was hoping for a midsize pickup truck, so ruled out the Lighting. Mach e she liked, both fit comfortably and clearly anyone could sit behind me my size and smaller. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Major dislike was the salesperson who was very pushy and made comments that told my wife he was a male chauvinistic pig. He actually told me to man up as the wife would drive whatever I decided since I was the man. Big mistake as we do everything in equal partnership, so his approach failed to work. Mach e is still in consideration, we will go with another salesperson, maybe even another dealership. Genesis - GV60 / GV70, exterior was fine, though the GV60 she did say reminded her of a jellybean. Interior was very luxurious, but no one could sit behind me in the GV60, would be fine for short trips in the GV70. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Interface was easy to use. She loved the interior but had reservations on the exterior but could not put her finger on it. GV70 would be in consideration. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Hyundai - Ioniq 5 SUV. She was not wowed by the exterior, felt it was sitting a bit low, bunker style, yet interior had plenty of room, Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Solid candidate to consider. Salesperson was nice, normal pushy attempts to have us make a decision, but as we told him, we still had others to test drive. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Kia - EV6 / EV9 - Exterior was not bad, was clearly different than many of the other EVs we had seen. EV6 is super tight inside for me, was fine for the wife as was the interface of their dashboard. No one could sit behind me. EV6 was out she said. EV9 was great, more room inside than our Escalade. Anyone could sit behind me, spacious for both of us and would transport anyone in comfort. Liked the exterior styling much more than many of the others we had test drove to date. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Salesperson super nice and not pushy. Solid candidate. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Mercedes - EQS, interior was nice, driving was the second quietest behind the Cadillac. Interface was fine, but lower menus seemed cluttered. We liked the interior for the most part, the hard part of this EV was the exterior lack of any real styling. The worst Jellybean style around. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, Salesperson was super nice and not pushy, but as we told him when we thanked him for his time, the auto needs an identity. Wife said for her daily driver, this was a hard pass. Rivian - R1T / R1S - Exterior was a win for the wife right up there with the EV9 from Kia. Interior was also a big win as it was spacious and comfortable front and back. Interface was easy to use, over all a nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Sadly, Rivian is off the list as she asked the counselor about Android Auto / Apple Carplay, no support, no plan to support it. Must buy your apps from the Rivian store, failure big time we felt. Bummer as Rivian was a leading candidate for us. Tesla - Due to friends who have Tesla, even with her knowing my dislike for the Tesla CEO, she wanted to check out the Y / X. Overall the experience in talking with their counselor was good, good people skills, they went over the interface with the wife, in the meantime she saw that while I could fit in the Y, no one could sit behind me. in the X I could also fit, but only about 2 inches of space from the back of the seat to the back seat. Wife asked about Android Auto and Apple Carplay, they told her no plans, they offered her a test drive and she passed. Told me it was a bit weird in how you used the single interface in the center of the dash and a few other things, minimalist failure to her. Pass on Tesla. Now that we had spent a long weekend driving so many EVs, I asked her what her thoughts were on what she was leaning towards. She told me give her a few weeks to digest the information and she would let me know. While the wife digested the EV overload of info, I moved onto researching the EV technology of these auto makers. Auto EV Platform Info 2024.pdf One key item is that I do not want to be behind the 8 ball of technology standards. In this case, I am talking about companies that are on 400V platforms versus 800V platforms. in this case, this brings us down to the following, Cadillac, Genesis, Hyundai and Kia as everyone else is on 400V platforms and already have announced that 2025 and 2026 model years will be the conversion to new 800V platforms. Knowing my wife, one does not rush her, when she is ready, she will let me know, weeks passed by and finally one day at breakfast, she said I have an answer for you. I like the Cadillac Lyriq and the Kia EV9 the best. I want heated seats, steering wheel and AWD, otherwise I could care less about other features. In looking on the websites for my local dealerships, the Cadillac dealership that I have bought from before was sold during the pandemic to Brotherton Cadillac of Renton. So Brotherton Cadillac NW is the dealership near me, and the wife and I reviewed all the Lyriqs and settled on the following:  Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic. This paint color is a color shifting paint that covers purple to silver / grey spectrum depending on the light of the day and especially as I discovered sun versus rain. In the sun it is a radiant purplish color and under dark raining weather a serious silver/dark grey.     Chuck Olson Kia which is less than a mile away from Brotherton Cadillac NW on HWY 99 here in the greater Seattle area had a nice assortment EV9s in Wind, Land and GT versions. They had the traditional blue GT and an Ice Green that the wife really liked. So I settled on the Ice Green to test drive and see what the final price would be. Again, like the Lyriq, the ICE Green metallic paint job has a dominant blueness but turns various shades of lite green to greenish blue depending on the light of the day. At this point we get to the nitty gritty of the dealing, Price paid, rebates, final pricing to determine what the deal ends up being. Over dinner, the wife and I discussed the options of buying versus leasing and to both of us, it made sense at this early stage to lease rather than buy an EV. The addition of the IRA $7,500 rebate also played into our decision. For Cadillac the Lyriq qualifies again for the full $7,500 rebate whether you buy or lease, in the case of the Kia, due to manufacturing in Korea, the EV9 only qualifies for the rebate if you lease. This fall, Kia and Hyundai start manufacturing in the US allowing their EVs to get the full $7,500 rebate if buying. For me, I wanted to see what a zero down Lease deal would be as a starting point before paying down. Depending on credit rating, most auto leases require anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000 down and of course the more you pay down, the lower your monthly payment is. The nature of my work allows me flexibility and as such, I was able to go on a Friday morning at 10am to the Brotherton Cadillac NW to test drive the Lyriq Sport 2 edition. In fact the EV is still on the lot now almost two weeks later. New 2024 Blue Cadillac 4dr Sport w/1SJ LYRIQ for Sale North of Seattle, VIN = 1GYKPVRL1RZ127387 (brothertoncadillacnw.com) Upon driving onto the lot, I parked and saw the Lyriq as it shinned in the morning sun giving that purplish glow that my wife liked. I walked up and checked it out externally and it looked great. After about 10 minutes of checking the Lyriq out, I was still not approached by anyone, so I went into the sales floor and asked if I could talk with someone about a Lyriq. First salesperson said I needed to talk to their EV specialist and walked away, a second person came out of a side hallway and asked if I was being taken care of and I told them what just happened, and I was still standing here. He did apologize and asked me to wait just a moment and he would get the specialist.  A young man came out, introduced himself and asked me if I had any special model in mind and if I wanted to take a test drive. I took him out to show him the one I was interested in. He took down their special code and left to get the keys. At this point, over all experience with the dealership was not bad, neutral for me as it is nothing personal, just business and some do it better than others. The sales rep returned with the keys, he opened up the Lyriq and took me on a tour of the auto pointing out many of the features and explaining the functional differences between how it works on the EV versus an ICE auto. This I have to say was very welcomed as it showed me the man had knowledge of the auto and could show / explain to me how it was to be used. I appreciate this as my wife is not a tech person but show her how to do it and she it set, so this was a good start. We did the traditional driver's license and insurance validation, signed on the dotted line and I then took off for a road trip in the Lyriq. Android auto works as expected, over all interface was easy to understand and use with a nice balance of common used items in physical form right under the screen. Steering wheel had all the expected buttons and dials for using the auto. The Noise canceling of the auto gave it a quiet ride that I have never experienced before and still to this day is the best yet of all the EVs I have test driven.  Negative of the Lyriq is that it is not a true SUV, you sit lower more car like and headroom while I would be fine, required me to drop the seat to the bottom of it's settings which makes my driving position even lower. Knowing that this is the wife's auto, I returned to the dealership to talk price. Here is where things started to go south and why people hate dealerships. I tried my best to negotiate in good faith for a fair price on the EV. The dealership replied that it was the hottest ride available and as such no discounts, you paid the price they had on the auto which was MSRP plus $5,000. I informed them that no I was not going to pay over MSRP for an auto that shows over 300 are available in the greater Seattle area.  The Dealership then said fine, they would sell it at MSRP to me. Knowing that I get $7,500 off I was not put off by this but also not happy that they would not go down on the price. I told them at this point I was interested in leasing and wanted to see what the lease rate would be for 15,000 miles a year for three years. Here is where it got ugly.  The sales rep came back to me and had a handwritten piece of paper with a TRD (Total after Rebates and Discounts) price, Lease money factor number, Residual price and monthly payment including tax. The monthly payment was a little over $1,200 a month. I asked to see firm numbers showing the selling price minus the IRA rebate, tax, etc. all lined up so that I can understand the numbers. I was informed this is how leases are done, your rebate is figured into the residual amount and that this is all the accurate info they provide the buyer. If I agree to this, they can then process and sell me the Lyriq. I told the man that this handwritten paper did not explain any of what I asked to verify and see, so they would need to properly print out or hand write all details in order for me to make a decision. The rep left and was gone for about 10 minutes and then came back with another salesperson who reminded me of a traditional wild west snake oil salesman who tried to use the same paper I was shown and yet tell me I was not able to understand the complexities of leases and should trust him on this awesome monthly cost. When I told him I would not accept that vague random info, he then moved into the terrible game of "What can you afford a month?" Here is where many people either give up and accept or leave as they feel overwhelmed, I on the other hand laughed and told him that I would not play his game. Show me the valid real numbers with a final price on the Lyriq before processing for the Lease monthly amount.  My wife always told me I was a very frustrating person when it came to buying an auto as I would push for facts and have on more than one occasion made salespeople cry when they could not get their way playing their monthly afford game. This is how people get ripped off and taken advantage of. The two folks left and came back with the sales manager who tried again with the paper to spin a different tale. At this point, I said fine, I would consider this as I needed to talk with the wife, and she would need to drive the auto anyway before we would buy.  Leaving the Cadillac dealership, I drove south to Chuck Olson Kia, figured I would see how the EV9 drove again and see what kind of deal I could get. Arriving at the dealership, I saw the EV9 I was interested in on the lot, looked it over and turned around to see if I can get some help and a young man greeted me and said he was with another customer, but would let another salesperson know I was looking at that EV9. Only a few minutes later, the sales rep came out, greeted me and had the keys so he opened up the EV and showed me the SUV.  Here the experience was similar in that we took the EV9 in Ice Green for a drive. As I drove it, I was informed about the various features and how they all worked. An overview that was enjoyable as I drove the near silent EV locally. I did notice that it was not as quiet as the Lyriq, but most would not really notice the difference, everything else on the road was far louder. We returned to the dealership and sat down; I asked the rep for the best price on this EV9 he could give me. He left to talk to his manager. Now I was comparing the price of the Lyriq Sport level 2 to this EV9 AWD Land edition and the MSRP price between the two was within a hundred dollars of each other. The EV9 had a number of features that the Lyriq did not have unless I paid substantially more and go to the top end Sport Level 3. At this point the Kia was winning on features giving it a better value due to the two being priced nearly the same. The sales rep came back to the table with a price that was $5,000 off MSRP. I felt based on internet searching that this was a fair price and felt it was good. I asked him then at this price with my IRA rebate of $7,500 what would a three-year lease with 15,000 miles a year cost me per month. The rep said give him a few minutes to have the manager put this in the system and he would come back with a detailed price for me. The salesperson returned about 10 minutes later with a Deal Sheet for me to review. Here is where the difference became clear between this Kia Dealership and the Cadillac Dealership. The Deal Sheet had all the numbers listed out clearly. Any person could walk through this in full understanding. The lease deal, started off with the Stock number for the EV9, had the MSRP listed, discount, then Selling price of the EV9. This was followed by a blank field for accessories or add on sales items as the sales rep explained. The rebate for $7,500 was clearly listed, blank space for Trade, cash cap reduction, license fee, doc fee ending in a final price of the EV that was then broken down by 36 months @ 15,000 miles a year for a Base monthly rental cost and then the sales tax on the whole deal which was broken down into monthly tax rate added to the monthly lease amount. Residual value at the end of the lease, a residual money factor that is a decimal number used to figure out the monthly lease rate. All in all, a very clear understandable deal and the monthly price for the EV9 was $837 per month compared to $1,200 plus for the Cadillac. I told the salesperson that I would need to talk to my wife when she got home tonight and would give him a call back. As I was getting ready to leave, I realized I had forgotten to ask an important question. Could the front driver and passenger windows be tinted to match the rest of the auto. Due to having had skin cancer, blocking out UV plus just having it darker is what I prefer. The sales rep said he believed so but would have to check with his manager and could call me if I gave him my number later. I left him my cell number and headed home. Sitting at home, I was thinking about the experience at the Cadillac dealership and wondering, can it really be that bad at any other dealership? So, I did a search and found the identical Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership and much farther away at Larson Cadillac of Fife. Off to Bellevue I went. Arriving at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership, I was promptly greeted and professionally questioned on the auto I was interested in. The young man was always polite and more than happy to help me. This dealership is one of the newly built from the ground up dealerships that truly echo's Luxury and what I would expect from a luxury dealership. Due to the knowledge of the salesperson like the other dealership, it started off positive, went out to check and see if the auto their website stated they had on hand was actually there. It was, Identical to the one at Brotherton Cadillac NW in Shoreline Washington. At this point, I gave him the same info I had given the other person to see what the pricing would be. Ten minutes later he returned with a printed sheet of paper, that was better than handwritten. Had a set sale price that was a couple thousand off the MSRP, had a rebate of $1,000 showing a reduced price, document fee, licensing and a theft engraving that he said they do on all autos sold there so nothing I could do about not wanting it. The total at the end showed a lease money factor, term, mileage and residual with a base payment of $1,042 dollars. with no money down.  Now two things I noticed, one was that the IRA rebate was not showing anywhere on the paperwork and the second item was that at least their price was over $200 less than the other dealership. I inquired about the $7,500 rebate and he said he did not know and would go ask. Upon returning he said it was factored into the residual value of the Lyriq when I traded it back in. I pointed out that the rebate does not go into a value of the vehicle but is paid to the dealership and so comes off the price of the auto. Things continued to go downhill from here as I was told by him that I did not understand how leasing worked. His sales manager stopped by, and I pointed this out, same response, I do not understand how leasing works. I informed them that I would need to present this to my wife and discuss it with her. They attempted the pressure response of get her on the phone, we can explain it and you can drive home in your new EV. They were not happy with me and would not let me have the paperwork. When they stepped out to talk, I snapped a quick picture of the printed paperwork. Two Cadillac dealerships, two different lease prices on the identically spec / priced Lyriq Sport 2 and no honest showing of where the rebate would end up at.  Heading home this made me wonder about Cadillac and their EV focus which we have since learned in the news has changed to having ICE and EV through 2030 and beyond. At home, I explained my day of EV shopping to the wife, she was disappointed that Cadillac was not forthcoming with their pricing. She liked the looks of the Lyriq as much as the looks of the Kia EV9. At this point the phone rang, and it was the sales rep for Kia. He informed me that yes, the doors could be tinted and that his sales manager if we were willing to move forward with the deal would throw in the front window tinting. We setup an appointment for Saturday morning to go and test drive the EV9 with the wife to ensure she would be happy driving it. For full details on our EV9 Purchase read this story: Now at this point, I figured I would relax for the evening, but I got another phone call from a sales rep at Larson Cadillac who informed me that the Lyriq I was interested was already sold at their dealership, but he could make me another deal on a like existing Lyriq, different color. I informed him that my wife liked the 800V Lyriq in the Celestial Metallic. The man on the other end of the phone said he could see if they could do a trade to get what we were interested in, but he wanted me to understand that the Lyriq was not a true 800V EV. I was surprised by his comment and asked him why it was not a true 800V EV. I learned and have verified that the only EV GM makes that truly can handle 350 kW fast charging is the Hummers, the Lyriq has an 800V electrical system, but the battery packs are first generation and as such only rated at 400V meaning they have a top charging speed of 150 kW. GM is planning to roll out 800V battery packs starting with the Chevrolet and GMC full size pickups. All other EVs will continue to use the 400V battery packs for now. At this point, I thanked the man for his time and would think on it and get back to him. As a person wanting to be current, this takes me to the Kia EV9 only. I did not say anything to my wife about the tech and hoped she would be happy with how it drove. Luckily that was a success the next day. I have spent half my life on the sales side and in training new sales folks there is a pretty basic 5 step process in sales: 1) Greet the customer inquiring what brought them in today 2) Qualify the person on what they want 3) Trial close to see if they are ready 4) Clarify questions and overcome concerns 5) Close the Sale. To accomplish this basic 5 steps, you first have to fully train the individual in what they are selling. Here Cadillac clearly is not or possibly the dealerships are not wanting to ensure everyone know how to sell an EV. Recap of this whole shopping experience is that Kia is nailing it with a professional sales experience, knowledgeable people on their products and a sales / lease process that is clear hiding nothing from allowing you to commit to buying or leasing a new auto. Cadillac on the other hand has left me with the feeling of snake oil salespersons at both dealerships with vague pricing, vague rebates and me wondering just how much they really want to earn my repeat business as I would love to replace my current Escalade with an Escalade IQ, but at this point, Genesis the luxury brand for Hyundai / Kia will reveal their Full Size GV90 ICE/Hybrid/Electric SUV summer of 2024 and I might just be replacing it with a Genesis. Any questions, ask away.   View full article
    • Rivian? Value? That's hilarious.🤣
    • Let me put it this way, The amount of money I saved with the interior having more room inside than my current Escalade and the silent comfort, It is a win to me with not having to deal with any of the ICE maintenance or gas trips. My leasing / buying story should help enlighten you on why leasing an EV is a good thing right now. I am also putting in a Level 2 charger at the house that will be another story on the research, cost, etc. So you can follow up on that story too.
    • I stumbled upon a small meetup this weekend. There's a new custom/restoration shop about two blocks from my home and I was walking to a Casey's to grab a cake donut for my wife (hahaha) and this is right next to the Casey's.  This grey Chevelle was perfect, absolutely perfect. The plate is the name of the shop, Xtreme (restoration, bodywork, modification). I'm sure this is their show piece, and what a piece of work/art it is! I believe the van is theirs as well.  Later that day we ran to Aldi and came across the International Scout. it was far from mint condition, but it was "pretty good" but even cooler to see it just out and about. 
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