Cadillac and Endurance Racing, Take Two!

You see...this is where I think Cadillac is spinning its wheels stupidly going nowhere fast!

MONEY WASTED BIG TIME!!!

1. Cadillac's image woes have nothing to do with having a racing heritage...

First of all, Cadillac hardly has a racing heritage. What? Once or twice in their 100 plus year history Cadillac raced in maybe 5-6 races?

2. Cadillac's image woes have something to do with an award that was won by them 100 years ago and them not meeting those standards for quite some time...

The Dewar award...and how Cadillac aint the Standard of the World anymore...

THAT is what plagues Cadillac...not for the lack of racing cars in 2016...

They build a Ciel and build it right...people will come back...

V Series Cadillacs have torn the 'Ring all right...people aren't exactly breaking down the door to own a Cadillac...

Good for them. I wish them luck.

Maybe this new class will make the IMSA WeatherTech series exciting. The last few years have been a snore. They've catered to the ugly Daytona Prototypes and they organize the races poorly in many cases. They need to condense GTD and GTLM, keep Prototype Challenge, and put all 3 classes on every venue, rather than splitting some of them up.

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

You see...this is where I think Cadillac is spinning its wheels stupidly going nowhere fast!

MONEY WASTED BIG TIME!!!

1. Cadillac's image woes have nothing to do with having a racing heritage...

First of all, Cadillac hardly has a racing heritage. What? Once or twice in their 100 plus year history Cadillac raced in maybe 5-6 races?

2. Cadillac's image woes have something to do with an award that was won by them 100 years ago and them not meeting those standards for quite some time...

The Dewar award...and how Cadillac aint the Standard of the World anymore...

THAT is what plagues Cadillac...not for the lack of racing cars in 2016...

They build a Ciel and build it right...people will come back...

V Series Cadillacs have torn the 'Ring all right...people aren't exactly breaking down the door to own a Cadillac...

I see your point but i think these endeavors are good for brand image and awareness.

Racing is the wrong place to invest money. 

Start with the Snooze marketing program they have, the idiot choices to not commit to the higher end auto price points. The needs to make the existing product lines best in class so that subject BS like MT review of the CT6 is ignored by most everyone.

Time to focus on the auto's you sell and the message that goes along with it not wasted on racing a prototype that will have no connection to the selling inventory.

Guys, relax. Chevy was already competing in IMSA, and this body is on an established chassis. It also uses the engine it has been for several years. GM was going to race anyway, there's no harm in them rebadging their effort as a Cadillac. The development costs for this were very low in the world of sports car racing.

11 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Guys, relax. Chevy was already competing in IMSA, and this body is on an established chassis. It also uses the engine it has been for several years. GM was going to race anyway, there's no harm in them rebadging their effort as a Cadillac. The development costs for this were very low in the world of sports car racing.

Aaaaaaagreeed.

Nobody would have said anything if it was a Chevy. But because it's a Caddy...

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Aaaaaaagreeed.

Nobody would have said anything if it was a Chevy. But because it's a Caddy...

17 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Guys, relax. Chevy was already competing in IMSA, and this body is on an established chassis. It also uses the engine it has been for several years. GM was going to race anyway, there's no harm in them rebadging their effort as a Cadillac. The development costs for this were very low in the world of sports car racing.

If it was Chevy with it's long history of Corvette racing, fine. But Caddy, should be focusing every dollar on the auto's they sell and a way better marketing message. The money spent on racing could have gone for a new CUE system to upgrade the existing one.

Focus should be at this time on marketing, sales and quality of product. Leave racing to Chevy which has a superior racing history.

1 hour ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Guys, relax. Chevy was already competing in IMSA, and this body is on an established chassis. It also uses the engine it has been for several years. GM was going to race anyway, there's no harm in them rebadging their effort as a Cadillac. The development costs for this were very low in the world of sports car racing.

OK....I read the article fast and kinda misinterpreted the existing established chassis part of this whole equation.

I still stand by my rant though, minus the waste of money part as really it wont cost Cadillac that much money.

I stand by what I said about racing will not cure what is ailing Cadillac even if racing does indeed bring exposure.

People that might one day buy a Cadillac TODAY and in the NEAR FUTURE dont  care about racing....irony as this whole RWD Arts and Science project when it began almost 2 decades ago was what people wanted THEN for cars and for Cadillac..maybe.

That ship has sailed...that was 20 years ago.

Today, my guy feeling tells me rich folk are aching to buy a modern Cadillac Land Yacht. Not necessarily a wobbly floaty Cadillac and not necessarily a speed demon either...

Escalade SUV extra premium luxury  and Ciel convertible and El Miraj personal coupe and 4 door sedan in my opinion is what is missing from Cadillac rather than an NSX or LFA or SLS type halo car.

The sports cars they have in the V Series cars

The pedigree to legitimize these V Series cars through this racing endeavor wont do too much to bring people into the showrooms...a sexy long sleek 4 door convertible will....and a dealership experience that is akin to a boutique car maker to  complete the package....

Instead of going racing, maybe they should go to a beauty salon for a dealership experience make-over...

WITH 1 HUGE EXCEPTION...

if Cadillac went ELECTRIC MOTOR racing...THEN it would be beneficial to its image going forward....

TECHNOLOGY.....THAT is what got them the Dewar award a 100 years ago....

Precision engineering was a breakthrough then and was part of technological advancement...

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

 

If it was Chevy with it's long history of Corvette racing, fine. But Caddy, should be focusing every dollar on the auto's they sell and a way better marketing message. The money spent on racing could have gone for a new CUE system to upgrade the existing one.

Focus should be at this time on marketing, sales and quality of product. Leave racing to Chevy which has a superior racing history.

But it's just a badge change in this case. This is a form of marketing.. lol

Hmmm. 

I guess, well, whatever. 

I think racing is a good idea, it helps from an engineering and marketing standpoint.  However they are in a racing series that hardly anyone has heard of, so there isn't that much marketing exposure, and I don't know how much entering benefit there is using a Corvette racing engine.  

They should step up to prime time and join Formula 1.

29 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think racing is a good idea, it helps from an engineering and marketing standpoint.  However they are in a racing series that hardly anyone has heard of, so there isn't that much marketing exposure, and I don't know how much entering benefit there is using a Corvette racing engine.  

They should step up to prime time and join Formula 1.

Joining F1 would be a terrible decision. It's hideously expensive and is being greatly restricted from an engineering advancement perspective.

Why don't they also rebrand the Chevy's that are in Indy car racing.

Why don't they rebrand NASCAR? 

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think racing is a good idea, it helps from an engineering and marketing standpoint.  However they are in a racing series that hardly anyone has heard of, so there isn't that much marketing exposure, and I don't know how much entering benefit there is using a Corvette racing engine.  

They should step up to prime time and join Formula 1.

F1 is an absolute money pit from what I've read. The only reasons teams still do it is pride or some sh!t. At least the technology is finally coming down from them(KERS, small turbo motors). But that's about it. 

Depends on how you do and how much you can get from sponsorship.  And it depends on what you want to spend.  Mercedes and Ferrari spend $400-500 million a year on F1, a team like Sauber spends $100 million.   Ferrari gets a payout from F1 every year, that with their prize money is $150-200 million, Mercedes made about $170 million in winnings this year.  So it comes down to sponsorships to make up the difference.  I read the Williams F1 team posted a small profit.   I found a story that Daimler lost $30 million last year on the F1 program, but they think the advertising value more than makes up for it. 

I would imagine any factory backed racing team in any league isn't really in it to make money.  I doubt Audi made any profit in prize money for winning Le Mans all those years, but they got advertising out of it.  So it is really in how you weigh the exposure and the bragging rights that come from racing.

Agree with the comment that Cadillac needs an even higher level of Escalade and having an Escalade V would be a benefit also.

11 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Joining F1 would be a terrible decision. It's hideously expensive and is being greatly restricted from an engineering advancement perspective.

Agree completely.  Would more likely be an expensive embarrassment....

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Agree with the comment that Cadillac needs an even higher level of Escalade and having an Escalade V would be a benefit also.

This would be good....

15 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Would more likely be an expensive embarrassment....

Sadly.. I agree.

US teams aren't known to be winning teams and it would be GREAT if GM/Ford could collaborate and send the best America has but the way F1 is ran... it would be insanity to try and field a team. There seems to be too many politics involved. That and the sport itself just isn't a great sport to watch. I used to love it but the competition just isn't there anymore. It seems every year there is 1 team that will win it all from week 1 and a second team trying to knock them down some. Basically, who spends the most in R&D in the of season, wins.

For what it's worth though, HAAS F1 was very successful for their first season in F1 as an American team. They scored points in their first race ever, which is a very rare feat.

Just look at how the teams are so close to each other and you can see where they consistently run every week. Mercedes 1-2, Ferrari/Redbull for 3-6, Ford India/Williams for 7-9, 11. They just need better competition when it comes to racing..like NASCAR. A lot of people think NASCAR is a lame and boring sport but it's the most competitive form of auto racing there is.

2016 F1 Standings

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Depends on how you do and how much you can get from sponsorship.  And it depends on what you want to spend.  Mercedes and Ferrari spend $400-500 million a year on F1, a team like Sauber spends $100 million.   Ferrari gets a payout from F1 every year, that with their prize money is $150-200 million, Mercedes made about $170 million in winnings this year.  So it comes down to sponsorships to make up the difference.  I read the Williams F1 team posted a small profit.   I found a story that Daimler lost $30 million last year on the F1 program, but they think the advertising value more than makes up for it. 

I would imagine any factory backed racing team in any league isn't really in it to make money.  I doubt Audi made any profit in prize money for winning Le Mans all those years, but they got advertising out of it.  So it is really in how you weigh the exposure and the bragging rights that come from racing.

I agree that there isn't a set monetary value to advertising your brand through F1 but of all forms of racing F1 is the most costly with likely the least amount of return on said investment. It would definitely be a way to get their name out there in likely a great way but I don't think they are really set out to lose money when even the best teams still aren't making money.

I don't know for fact but it just seems the way F1 is run that there are other forms of racing that Cadillac could benefit from entering.

You're right, likely Audi didn't profit a dime from winning Le Mans but with a rich history in racing they still have a well known race program and can advertise their winnings even if it is just on pamphlets and signage. That alone just gives companies a little more cache and prestige in their products which Cadillac is greatly missing.

Well here is what I see going on here.

JDN is playing the Audi card here getting into prototype racing.  Audi entered prototypes here and in Europe to promote their Diesel engines.

With that said I expect GM will enter IMSA with this car from Dallara a proven chassis builder and compete using the bullet proof Chevy engine while they sort out the car. They then will move to use a Cadillac based engine to promote their new engines once they arrive in about 2-3 years. to do a Chassis and engine would prove to be a disaster as it was the first time they tried this with the LMP.

Cadillac jumped in the last time way over their head. They had a new chassis and used the N star engine and both proved to be a problem. They never really sorted this out.

Now this car will be able to not only run Daytona and Sebring but also Lemans. This should prove to be a good combination that they could not do before with the Daytona prototype cars.

Chevy is already well established with the GTLM program and they will embark on new C8 Mid Engine in about a year and a half. Being based on a stock platform for the Corvette is very important. Not so much at Cadillac. Making the prototype for Chevy would really have little added value.

F1 is such a mess now and has been for a while. Cost are off the charts and to get results is even more difficult unless you have been at it for a while.  GM really has little need or use for F1.

As for now F1 needs to get their house in order.

Might note two things. The car from the side resembles the Audi prototypes. The nose and tail hints as a little of the styling of the headlamps and tail lamps we may see in the future Cadillac products.

But if Cadillac joins IMSA with this prototype it will be a way to promote the brand globally. Also I see a future with their own powertrains and possibly a hybrid system much like Porsche uses today.

They just need to avoid doing this as the past LMP car as while it was neat they were way in over their heads on that deal. That would have been a major challenge even to the most established teams from Germany.

If you look at many of the Porsche and Audi programs they take proven cars or engines and advance them not blow them up and starting over. The early 917 begat the later 917, Also what they learned carried over to the 936 and 962. Even what they learned there has been applied to the cars they race today.

Cadillac is smart to go to Dallara and use the Chevy engine that has a proven record. Once the car is a winner then drop in the new Cadillac engine when ready.

I could see Cadillac once they sort out the proper EV Engine going with an F1 EV team.

I wonder if NASCAR will ever consider an EV program?

Honestly, Electric would be the way to go of showing true leadership and innovation.

NASCAR will only consider EV when they absolutely HAVE to. I just can't see them considering it before they need to just because the sport has always been around simplification and basic engine on a street car(I know it is nothing like that today as they have standardized bodies and engines so much for competition's sake) but in general, they are the most simple cars racing today. Yes, there are millions into R&D and testing to tweak suspensions and bodywork that they are allowed to. I'm not trying to say that it's cheap and easy for anybody to just field a car but I'm saying that in the grand scheme of racing, they are still the most simplistic cars out there(On the national/international level).

Jeff Gordon is going to drive the Cadillac car.