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    Cadillac To Make Changes In China to Appeal to Younger Buyers


    • Growth in China has Cadillac Making Some Changes

    Buick is GM's star in China, but Cadillac isn't far behind. Last year, Cadillac sales rose 17 percent to almost 80,000 vehicles. Consulting company LMC Automotive says the brand is poised to move ahead of Lexus in the country.

     

    Where can Cadillac attribute this rise in sales in China? Young buyers. The luxury brand says the average age for a buyer is 34 years old - slightly more than half of the average age of a Cadillac buyer in the U.S.

     

    "In China, young buyers already dominate the luxury market. Since Cadillac is a relative newcomer ... it was far easier to begin to cultivate the desired positioning for the brand from the get-go," said Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen to Reuters.

     

    Not surprisingly, Cadillac wants to take advantage of this. de Nysschen has set a goal of selling 100,000 Cadillacs in China this year. To pull this off, GM opened its first dedicated factory in China for Cadillacs. This move allows buyers to not pay a 25 percent import tax. Cadillac will also stop designing separate long wheelbase cars for China. Instead, the luxury brand will do a one global "right size" design.

     

    "You will see a softening of some of the hard edges, and more three-dimension styling on the side of the car," de Nysschen said, but cars will still be "instantly recognizable as Cadillac."

     

    Source: Reuters

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    This is cool to hear and I hope they bring the stretch version to the US as us tall guys would like a stretched version of a CTS V edition. That extra 16 inches in the rear would be well worth it to have your Rocket performance car with room in it for hauling people.

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    I bet "right size" means bigger.  The CTS is already the biggest car in its segment, hard to make it any bigger.  If the ATS gets bigger it becomes the size of a 2nd gen CTS, then you get back to that 5-series size at 3-series price problem.  I don't think the size of the car is the problem, packaging is.

     

    I also hope they don't start styling Cadillacs to suit the Chinese market, because that will spell problems here.  

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    balthazar

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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    Edited by balthazar
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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.

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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    1/3rd of S-class sales are China.  But when Mercedes sold 373,000 cars in China last year, that beat their US sales so that makes sense.  They sold 738,000 cars in Europe, I think they are more worried with the European market, and the S-class has had the same grille for like 25 years, I don't think they are styling the car for the Chinese.

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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.

     

    The S-class does well everywhere, and it has to be made there to sell there because of the import tax laws in China.  

     

    If you buy an S-class or E-class in the USA it is made in Sindelfigen, Germany.

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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.

    The S-class does well everywhere, and it has to be made there to sell there because of the import tax laws in China.  

     

    If you buy an S-class or E-class in the USA it is made in Sindelfigen, Germany.

    . That's not what I'm talking about but thanks for playing. We already know that if you had to live in China that you would not buy one that was made there. We've talked about this.
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    According to carscoops from the fall of 2014, it was "nearly one out of every two" S-classes are sold in China.
    1 out of 3 is 33.3%, but 'nearly 1 out of two' may run as high as 45% or more.
    Without a doubt mercedes has been building the s-class with China heavily in mind; the corporate mindset of 'Revenue Above All Else' is proof enough of that.

     

    China is probably why we never got the F700 (not the Ford HD truck; the future S-class concept MD teased).

    Oh sure; it was horribly mutated, but at least you noticed it.

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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.
    The S-class does well everywhere, and it has to be made there to sell there because of the import tax laws in China.  

     

    If you buy an S-class or E-class in the USA it is made in Sindelfigen, Germany.

    . That's not what I'm talking about but thanks for playing. We already know that if you had to live in China that you would not buy one that was made there. We've talked about this.

     

    If I had to live in China, I would still buy a Mercedes, which in most cases would be made in China.  Just like people that live in the USA and buy a GLC or C-class or GLE are buying a Mercedes made in the USA.   They are often built in the region of the world where the car is sold.  Certain cars with lower volume are only tooled up at one factory though, such as the SL.  High volume like a C-class is built in 3 or 4 different factories.  Every car maker does this.

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    According to carscoops from the fall of 2014, it was "nearly one out of every two" S-classes are sold in China.

    1 out of 3 is 33.3%, but 'nearly 1 out of two' may run as high as 45% or more.

    Without a doubt mercedes has been building the s-class with China heavily in mind; the corporate mindset of 'Revenue Above All Else' is proof enough of that.

     

    China is probably why we never got the F700 (not the Ford HD truck; the future S-class concept MD teased).

    Oh sure; it was horribly mutated, but at least you noticed it.

    I read 1/3rd in 2015.  European market S-class sales are only about 17,000 a year, 20-25,000 a year in the USA.   They were on pace for 35,000 in China in 2015, but the S-class sells around 100k a year, so that would be 35%.  If Europe or other parts of the world have economic down turn and the S-class drops to 80,000 but China stays at 35,000 the % gets bigger.

     

    Interestingly enough Audi who sold 570,000 cars in China in 2015, led the way with BMW in 2nd.  The S-class sold as many units as the A8 and 7-series combined there.  It outsells the A8 and 7-series combined in Europe too.  S-class is the global champion, it isn't designed for one country it is designed to win in 200 countries.

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    Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

     

    Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 
     
     
     
    Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 
     
    The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8
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    ^ Doesn't seem to for mercdees; 1 out of every 2 S-classes are sold in china and it's as soft as baby's bottom, yet they still sell here OK.

    The S Class does very well in China well also being made there.
    The S-class does well everywhere, and it has to be made there to sell there because of the import tax laws in China.  

     

    If you buy an S-class or E-class in the USA it is made in Sindelfigen, Germany.

    . That's not what I'm talking about but thanks for playing. We already know that if you had to live in China that you would not buy one that was made there. We've talked about this.

    If I had to live in China, I would still buy a Mercedes, which in most cases would be made in China.  Just like people that live in the USA and buy a GLC or C-class or GLE are buying a Mercedes made in the USA.   They are often built in the region of the world where the car is sold.  Certain cars with lower volume are only tooled up at one factory though, such as the SL.  High volume like a C-class is built in 3 or 4 different factories.  Every car maker does this.

    Funny because that's not what you said a few weeks ago. Back then you said you'd never drive a Chinese made Mercedes (on the CT6 made in China thread). Interesting.

    And you are proving Balthazaars point.

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    Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

     

    Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 
     
     
     
    Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 
     
    The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

     

    But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

     

    Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

     

    In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

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    Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

     

    Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 

     

     

     

    Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 

     

    The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

    But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

     

    Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

     

    In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

    Mercedes does the exact same thing. They pushed up the C Class to be able put out the sub $30k CLA for example. As a matter of fact, all companies do this.

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    Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

     

    Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 
     
     
     
    Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 
     
    The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

     

    But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

     

    Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

     

    In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

     

    It's like you didn't actually read what he actually wrote and are still asking the same questions as before (that have been answered ten fold). 

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    Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

     

    Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 

     

     

     

    Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 

     

    The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

    But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

     

    Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

     

    In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

    Mercedes does the exact same thing. They pushed up the C Class to be able put out the sub $30k CLA for example. As a matter of fact, all companies do this.

     

    I hate this but it's so true. I think the best example is the Honda Civic. It isn't a compact car in my eyes any more. The Malibu has grown so much since 2000, C Class, 3 Series, all half ton trucks, Mid-size trucks.. everything. 

     

    There are only a couple cars that come to mind that haven't blown up and that's the '16 Camaro and Miata. The Mustang is huge compared to the 99-04 gen that I've owned. Those had useless back seats, if either driver or passenger were larger than myself at 5'8" 180lbs then only one person gets the arm rest in the middle..the bigger guy.. 

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    The size creep of low end models could kill off the larger sedans, especially as larger sedan sales are tanking anyway.  Consumers are moving away from large cars, but manufactures keep making cars bigger?   Hmmm.   You'll all realize it when the Impala dies in the 2020s and the Cruze is a mid-size car for $30,000 and not selling because no one wants to pay $30k for a Cruze.

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    That it is, but the E-class has only grown about 4 inches in length in the past 25 years.  The late 80s E-class was 187-188 inches long, a 1996 E-class has length of 189.4 and a 2016 model is 192.1.  Height is up an inch and width up 2 over 20 years.  Small growth

     

    The 1991 S-class was 205.2 inches long, the 2016 is 206.5 inches long.  So it also grew slightly over time, it actually downsized in 2000, then went back up in 2007.

     

    But look at a 1990 Civicor 3-series and compare it to today, it isn't even close.

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    That it is, but the E-class has only grown about 4 inches in length in the past 25 years.  The late 80s E-class was 187-188 inches long, a 1996 E-class has length of 189.4 and a 2016 model is 192.1.  Height is up an inch and width up 2 over 20 years.  Small growth

     

    The 1991 S-class was 205.2 inches long, the 2016 is 206.5 inches long.  So it also grew slightly over time, it actually downsized in 2000, then went back up in 2007.

     

    But look at a 1990 Civicor 3-series and compare it to today, it isn't even close.

    What about everything else? 

     

    C Class?

    CLK? S? SL? ML? GL? GLK? CLS? And all of the wagon and coupe variations that go with all of those.. have those all only grown 4 inches in 25 years? I would wager good money that isn't the case.. 

     

    ML/GLE(whatever you want to refer to it as):

    1997: 180.6 inches long

    2016: 189.1 inches long

     

    GLK/GLC

    2009(first year it was made): 178.2 inches long

    2016: 183.3 inches long

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    Called this a while ago so I'm just gonna be lazy and paste this here

     

    Like the 5series which shares a platform with the BMW 7 Series and is essentially a downsized 7 Series, the CTS will most likely be getting Omega as its bones, and be the same as the 5series in terms of sharing a larger platform. Basically the (current CTS)CT5 or 4 will be a "SWB CT6" still with the same body length as the current CTS, just larger inside via a wider and more space efficient platform called Omega. Count the need for Buick to chime in and get a flagship larger than the LAX for China and U.S (possibly). The "Avista" goes to Buick because they are continuing the trend down the age demographic.. and a sporty coupe could be the fix and seriously help Alpha along with the Camaro. 
     
     
     
    Again... and based on what JDN said a few months ago about the next "CTS" and next "ATS" we should be seeing a simple change of size formula for the sake of these issues that critics have brought up about the legroom etc. I'm thinking for the most part the Alpha based ATS replacement will essentially get the Chinese ATS-L Wheelbase of 112.6 inch vs what it has right now of 109.3. This would dwarf the current 3series' 110.6 in WB by a few inches. I think that the ATS replacement will be, along with the Sub-ATS, the only Cadillacs on the Alpha platform, with the Camaro, and this Avista helping out with the numbers a bit more. 
     
    The CTS replacement will probably go to Omega. I could see it staying at 196 inchs.. and getting a bump in Wheelbase (currently at 114.6 inches) too coming in at around 117 in N.Amer, like the 5Series. It has been said that the CT6 handles as well as the current CTS.. so certainly I would think that an OMega based... smaller than CT6... CTS would handle as well or better, not losing any of its agility, and losing a few hundred lbs in the change over. This would be beneficial in amortizing the Omega platform even quicker.. (altho I would still push it out to an Impala at Chevy and a Park Ave or Avenir at Buick) along with the CT7 and CT8

     

    But how big do these cars get?  Does a CTS or CT5 become the size of a Chrysler 300?  Does the ATS become the size of Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX?   BMW is just as guilty, they have had some bad size creep on the 3 and 5-series as of late.    I don't get the notion of forcing low end cars up market such as was done with  CTS.   Making the car bigger could hurt sales, not help.

     

    Even Chevy and Ford are doing it.  The Cruze is way bigger than a Cobalt was, the Malibu has grown, pretty soon the Impala will be pushed out.  Ford is making the Focus larger, the Fusion longer, killing the Taurus.  These brands are killing the nameplates of their larger, more profitable vehicles to push low end models up.

     

    In Chevy's example, they shoudl drop the Spark name plate, make the subcompact the Sonic, what is currently the Sonic becomes the Cruze, the Cruze becomes Malibu and the current Malibu/Impala merge into one car that is an Accord/Camry fighter.  This lets Chevy sella $17,000 Malibu which seems like incredible value, but really it is the same car a $16,000 Cruze would be, yet GM pockets $1,000.

     

     

     

    Dude it happens every generation in almost every company. Honda's Civic is damn near the size of the Accord from 2007. The BMW, as U mentioned is clearly sizing up. The current 5Series looks on par in size with the old 7 Series from early 2000s. At a point.. that additional interior space goes beyond just magic packaging and the car has to actually grow in exterior dimensions as well. The trick is to make them as efficient. WHO CARES is the vehicle (place name here)  is larger as long as there is an alternative for smaller size, and that aforementioned nameplate is as efficient if not more so than the gen it replaces.

     

    A Malibu for example.. while now larger is more efficient than the car it replaces and certainly more so than the gen before 2013. The Cruze might be larger, but before the Cruze.. the Cobalt didn't have the steps of the SPARK > Sonic>.. then the CRUZE or Volt.. then Malibu.. then Impala.. hell.. bringing back an old argument.. Chevy has the Camaro in stead of a Malibu COUPE.. as the Accord benefits from being the large, mid, and coupe of Honda.. thus taking all the sales under one name. But I digress

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    The size creep of low end models could kill off the larger sedans, especially as larger sedan sales are tanking anyway.  Consumers are moving away from large cars, but manufactures keep making cars bigger?   Hmmm.   You'll all realize it when the Impala dies in the 2020s and the Cruze is a mid-size car for $30,000 and not selling because no one wants to pay $30k for a Cruze.

     

     

    Yeah.. and still get resurrected about 4 years later. Come on Brah.. the Impala is quite possibly.. behind two other Chevys.. (Vette and Suburban) the longest running name in automotum. 

     

    Personally I don't think that's what's gonna happen anyway. I see the Impala as we kno it going away.. hence the Malibu's jump.. and becoming a combined entity of the Impala name and legend, SS's performance, and Caprice's size.. all on OMEGA for the sake of amortizing the platform

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    But in the case of Impala, since it is Chevy's best sedan name, and longest running, why not make that the Camry/Accord fighter. Make Malibu a Corolla/Civic/Focus competitor. The Malibu nameplate has proven it can't win against the Camry and Accord, maybe it will have better luck against Civic.  Cruze then becomes the Fiesta/Accent/Versa competition. 

     

    Wouldn't an Omega platform Chevy cost as much as a CTS?  What is the point in that? 

     

    My guess for Cadillac is the ATS grows to 185 inches long, so a car at 180 can go in below it.  CTS stays the same size it is.  They can't make CT6 any bigger, or it will be bigger than an S-class and a CT8 won't be needed, and we know they want a CT8. 

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    • By William Maley
      It has been about five years since a Cadillac V series model has graced either one the Cheers & Gears’ garages (if you’re wondering, that would be the 2011 CTS-V Coupe that our Managing Editor drove). It isn’t for our lack of trying. I can give you a stack of emails to the person who handles General Motors’ fleet in Detroit that list the ATS-V and CTS-V as a possible test vehicle. But if you keep bugging someone over time, something is bound to change. That is what happened this summer as a Cadillac ATS-V coupe rolled into the Cheers and Gears’ Detroit garage. Was it worth the wait? 
      The standard Cadillac ATS coupe is already a model that stands out in crowd thanks to an aggressive look. The V turns that aggressiveness up to eleven. The front features a dual mesh grille setup (a small one on top and a larger one below), a narrow slot between the grille and hood; and a new bulging hood with an air extractor. A set of optional eighteen-inch alloy wheels fill in the wheel wells nicely and show off the massive Brembo brakes. The back comes with a rear wing and diffuser with quad exhaust tips.
      Our ATS-V tester featured the optional Carbon Fiber package that adds an exposed carbon fiber weave for the front splitter, hood extractor, and rear diffuser. It also comes with a larger rear wing and extensions for the rocker panels. I’ll admit I found the carbon fiber package to be a bit much with our tester’s red paint at first. It’s like going into an important meeting wearing a zoot suit and alligator shoes. You’ll make an impression, but is it the one you want to put out into the world? I did grow to like this combination as the week went on. That said, I would skip the carbon fiber package. For one, you have to very careful not cause any damage to lower parts when driving over speed bumps and other road imperfections. For example, the low ride height makes it easy for the front splitter to be cracked. Second, this optional package is $5,000. There are better ways you can use that $5,000 such as getting a new set of tires or a plane ticket to get you over to Cadillac’s V driving school.
      Inside, the ATS-V is a bit of a disappointment. For the nearly $80,000 price tag of our tester, you would think that it would look and feel the part. In certain areas, the ATS-V does. Cadillac has appointed parts of the interior with carbon fiber and suede to give it a sporty feel. Our tester featured the optional Recaro seats which are the first set I actually liked sitting in. A lot of this is due to how you could adjust seat bolstering to make yourself actually fit into the seat, not sitting on top of it. 
      But this where the good points end with the ATS-V’s interior. Despite all of the premium touches Cadillac has added, it doesn’t feel like it is worth the price. Take for example the center stack with CUE. It is just a sheet of piano black trim and makes the interior feel somewhat cheap. You’ll find more piano black trim throughout the interior which reinforces this. The instrument cluster is the same that you’ll find in the standard ATS only with a different font. It would have been nice if Cadillac could have pulled the 12.3-inch screen setup they use on the CTS-V as it looks nicer and would provide the key details needed for a driver. CUE still hasn’t gotten any better in terms of performance and overall usability. Yes, Cadillac has added Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration to CUE. But we had issues with CarPlay with the system not recognizing our phone and apps crashing. The back seat? Just use it for storage. Trying to fit someone back there could cause you to be accused of cruel and unusual punishment.
      Power for the ATS-V comes from a twin-turbo 3.6L V6 with 464 horsepower and 445 pound-feet of torque. This can be paired with either a six-speed manual or our tester’s eight-speed automatic. Start up the engine and it delivers a meaty, if somewhat muted growl. Don’t let that fool you, this engine will throw you in the back of your seat with no issue. Yes, the turbos do mean you’ll have a moment or two for that rush of power to arrive. But once the turbos spool, hold on. Power comes on at a linear rate and never lets up. The eight-speed automatic delivers crisp upshifts, but it does take a second or so for it to downshift. If you’re wondering about fuel economy, the EPA rates the ATS-V automatic at 16 City/24 Highway/19 Combined. Our average for the week landed around 18 mpg.
      Where the ATS-V truly shines is in the handling. The first time I took the ATS-V down a curvy road, I was gobsmacked at how well it hustled around the corners with no issues. Enter into a corner and ATS-V hunkers down thanks to sticky Michelin Pilot Sport. There is little body roll and the steering provides quick and precise turn-in. The ATS was already a pretty decent handling car, but Cadillac knew that it could be better. The stiffness of the chassis has been increased by 25 percent and there is the newest version of GM’s Magnetic Ride Control system that is faster when it comes adjusting the damping characteristics of the shocks. Three modes (Touring, Sport, and Track) can vary the stiffness of the shocks along with the behavior of the engine and steering. 
      When you decided that you had enough fun and it is time to go back to the daily grind, the ATS-V turns into a comfortable cruiser. With the vehicle in Touring mode, the ride is compliant with some bumps making their way inside. Road and wind noise is kept to very acceptable levels.
      One item that we were disappointed not to have on our test ATS-V was blind spot monitoring. This is part of a $1,500 Safety and Security package that also adds lane keep assist, forward collision alert, rear-cross traffic alert, and more. For a vehicle that begins that begins just a hair over $62,000, you think blind spot monitor would be standard. It should.
      Cadillac has been making great strides since the first-generation CTS-V and the ATS-V is the beneficiary of it. The powertrains will nail you to your seats and the handling can match or surpass the class leaders. But Cadillac is still stumbling over some simple things such as the interior materials and the infotainment system. It is an amazing driving vehicle, but it is let down by the interior.
      At the end of the week, I couldn’t deny this is an impressive vehicle even with the interior issues. It was very much worth the long wait.
      Cheers: Jaw-Dropping performance, Sharp handling, Looks that make it stand out from the crowd
      Jeers: Carbon Fiber package isn't worth the money or worry, Interior doesn't feel like it is worth the price, CUE
      Disclaimer: Cadillac Provided the ATS-V, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2016
      Make: Cadillac
      Model: ATS-V Coupe
      Trim: N/A
      Engine: 3.6L SIDI DOHC Twin-Turbo V6
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Rear-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 464 @ 5,850
      Torque @ RPM: 445 @ 3,500
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 16/24/19
      Curb Weight: 3,803 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Lansing, MI
      Base Price: $62,665
      As Tested Price: $79,205 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Carbon Fiber Package - $5,000.00
      Recaro Performance Seats - $2,300.00
      Luxury Package - $2,100.00
      8-Speed Automatic Transmission - $2,000.00
      Performance Data Recorder - $1,300.00
      Power Sunroof - $1,050.00
      18-inch Polished Wheels - $900.00
      Dark Gold Brembo Calipers - $595.00
      Sueded Microfiber Steering Wheels and Shifter - $300.00

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      It has been about five years since a Cadillac V series model has graced either one the Cheers & Gears’ garages (if you’re wondering, that would be the 2011 CTS-V Coupe that our Managing Editor drove). It isn’t for our lack of trying. I can give you a stack of emails to the person who handles General Motors’ fleet in Detroit that list the ATS-V and CTS-V as a possible test vehicle. But if you keep bugging someone over time, something is bound to change. That is what happened this summer as a Cadillac ATS-V coupe rolled into the Cheers and Gears’ Detroit garage. Was it worth the wait? 
      The standard Cadillac ATS coupe is already a model that stands out in crowd thanks to an aggressive look. The V turns that aggressiveness up to eleven. The front features a dual mesh grille setup (a small one on top and a larger one below), a narrow slot between the grille and hood; and a new bulging hood with an air extractor. A set of optional eighteen-inch alloy wheels fill in the wheel wells nicely and show off the massive Brembo brakes. The back comes with a rear wing and diffuser with quad exhaust tips.
      Our ATS-V tester featured the optional Carbon Fiber package that adds an exposed carbon fiber weave for the front splitter, hood extractor, and rear diffuser. It also comes with a larger rear wing and extensions for the rocker panels. I’ll admit I found the carbon fiber package to be a bit much with our tester’s red paint at first. It’s like going into an important meeting wearing a zoot suit and alligator shoes. You’ll make an impression, but is it the one you want to put out into the world? I did grow to like this combination as the week went on. That said, I would skip the carbon fiber package. For one, you have to very careful not cause any damage to lower parts when driving over speed bumps and other road imperfections. For example, the low ride height makes it easy for the front splitter to be cracked. Second, this optional package is $5,000. There are better ways you can use that $5,000 such as getting a new set of tires or a plane ticket to get you over to Cadillac’s V driving school.
      Inside, the ATS-V is a bit of a disappointment. For the nearly $80,000 price tag of our tester, you would think that it would look and feel the part. In certain areas, the ATS-V does. Cadillac has appointed parts of the interior with carbon fiber and suede to give it a sporty feel. Our tester featured the optional Recaro seats which are the first set I actually liked sitting in. A lot of this is due to how you could adjust seat bolstering to make yourself actually fit into the seat, not sitting on top of it. 
      But this where the good points end with the ATS-V’s interior. Despite all of the premium touches Cadillac has added, it doesn’t feel like it is worth the price. Take for example the center stack with CUE. It is just a sheet of piano black trim and makes the interior feel somewhat cheap. You’ll find more piano black trim throughout the interior which reinforces this. The instrument cluster is the same that you’ll find in the standard ATS only with a different font. It would have been nice if Cadillac could have pulled the 12.3-inch screen setup they use on the CTS-V as it looks nicer and would provide the key details needed for a driver. CUE still hasn’t gotten any better in terms of performance and overall usability. Yes, Cadillac has added Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration to CUE. But we had issues with CarPlay with the system not recognizing our phone and apps crashing. The back seat? Just use it for storage. Trying to fit someone back there could cause you to be accused of cruel and unusual punishment.
      Power for the ATS-V comes from a twin-turbo 3.6L V6 with 464 horsepower and 445 pound-feet of torque. This can be paired with either a six-speed manual or our tester’s eight-speed automatic. Start up the engine and it delivers a meaty, if somewhat muted growl. Don’t let that fool you, this engine will throw you in the back of your seat with no issue. Yes, the turbos do mean you’ll have a moment or two for that rush of power to arrive. But once the turbos spool, hold on. Power comes on at a linear rate and never lets up. The eight-speed automatic delivers crisp upshifts, but it does take a second or so for it to downshift. If you’re wondering about fuel economy, the EPA rates the ATS-V automatic at 16 City/24 Highway/19 Combined. Our average for the week landed around 18 mpg.
      Where the ATS-V truly shines is in the handling. The first time I took the ATS-V down a curvy road, I was gobsmacked at how well it hustled around the corners with no issues. Enter into a corner and ATS-V hunkers down thanks to sticky Michelin Pilot Sport. There is little body roll and the steering provides quick and precise turn-in. The ATS was already a pretty decent handling car, but Cadillac knew that it could be better. The stiffness of the chassis has been increased by 25 percent and there is the newest version of GM’s Magnetic Ride Control system that is faster when it comes adjusting the damping characteristics of the shocks. Three modes (Touring, Sport, and Track) can vary the stiffness of the shocks along with the behavior of the engine and steering. 
      When you decided that you had enough fun and it is time to go back to the daily grind, the ATS-V turns into a comfortable cruiser. With the vehicle in Touring mode, the ride is compliant with some bumps making their way inside. Road and wind noise is kept to very acceptable levels.
      One item that we were disappointed not to have on our test ATS-V was blind spot monitoring. This is part of a $1,500 Safety and Security package that also adds lane keep assist, forward collision alert, rear-cross traffic alert, and more. For a vehicle that begins that begins just a hair over $62,000, you think blind spot monitor would be standard. It should.
      Cadillac has been making great strides since the first-generation CTS-V and the ATS-V is the beneficiary of it. The powertrains will nail you to your seats and the handling can match or surpass the class leaders. But Cadillac is still stumbling over some simple things such as the interior materials and the infotainment system. It is an amazing driving vehicle, but it is let down by the interior.
      At the end of the week, I couldn’t deny this is an impressive vehicle even with the interior issues. It was very much worth the long wait.
      Cheers: Jaw-Dropping performance, Sharp handling, Looks that make it stand out from the crowd
      Jeers: Carbon Fiber package isn't worth the money or worry, Interior doesn't feel like it is worth the price, CUE
      Disclaimer: Cadillac Provided the ATS-V, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2016
      Make: Cadillac
      Model: ATS-V Coupe
      Trim: N/A
      Engine: 3.6L SIDI DOHC Twin-Turbo V6
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Rear-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 464 @ 5,850
      Torque @ RPM: 445 @ 3,500
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 16/24/19
      Curb Weight: 3,803 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Lansing, MI
      Base Price: $62,665
      As Tested Price: $79,205 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Carbon Fiber Package - $5,000.00
      Recaro Performance Seats - $2,300.00
      Luxury Package - $2,100.00
      8-Speed Automatic Transmission - $2,000.00
      Performance Data Recorder - $1,300.00
      Power Sunroof - $1,050.00
      18-inch Polished Wheels - $900.00
      Dark Gold Brembo Calipers - $595.00
      Sueded Microfiber Steering Wheels and Shifter - $300.00
    • By William Maley
      Cadillac is offering 400 of its smallest dealers a buyout if they don't want to be part of the ambitious and contentious Project Pinnacle.
      Automotive News reports the offers will range from $100,000 to $180,000. The dealers eligible for the buyout sold less than 50 new Cadillac models in 2015. While the 400 dealers make up 43 percent of Cadillac's total number of dealers in the U.S. (around 925), this group only made up 9 percent of total sales last year.
      Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen said the buyouts is to give those an alternative who don't want to forward with the new program.
      “This is going to be a long, arduous and challenging journey and certainly not one for the faint-hearted. Some people may choose to make life a little easier than what lies ahead,” said de Nysschen.
      de Nysschen did say while Cadillac has too many dealers compared to their rivals, the buyout program isn't meant to be seen as a way to get rid of low-volume dealers. 
      Project Pinnacle is a new incentive program that will separate dealers into five tiers based on sales volume. Each tier offers a varying level of customer perk along with different requirements for services and facilities. For example, small stores cannot stock vehicles on site. Instead, they would offer a virtual showroom for customers to explore and order a vehicle. This program has gotten backlash from dealer groups, saying it would violate franchise laws and be unfair to the smaller dealers. 
      Those who have been offered the buyout have until November 21st to either take it or move forward with Project Pinnacle, which is expected to begin January 1st.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
       

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Cadillac is offering 400 of its smallest dealers a buyout if they don't want to be part of the ambitious and contentious Project Pinnacle.
      Automotive News reports the offers will range from $100,000 to $180,000. The dealers eligible for the buyout sold less than 50 new Cadillac models in 2015. While the 400 dealers make up 43 percent of Cadillac's total number of dealers in the U.S. (around 925), this group only made up 9 percent of total sales last year.
      Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen said the buyouts is to give those an alternative who don't want to forward with the new program.
      “This is going to be a long, arduous and challenging journey and certainly not one for the faint-hearted. Some people may choose to make life a little easier than what lies ahead,” said de Nysschen.
      de Nysschen did say while Cadillac has too many dealers compared to their rivals, the buyout program isn't meant to be seen as a way to get rid of low-volume dealers. 
      Project Pinnacle is a new incentive program that will separate dealers into five tiers based on sales volume. Each tier offers a varying level of customer perk along with different requirements for services and facilities. For example, small stores cannot stock vehicles on site. Instead, they would offer a virtual showroom for customers to explore and order a vehicle. This program has gotten backlash from dealer groups, saying it would violate franchise laws and be unfair to the smaller dealers. 
      Those who have been offered the buyout have until November 21st to either take it or move forward with Project Pinnacle, which is expected to begin January 1st.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
       
    • By William Maley
      More and more automakers are beginning to roll out high-performance driving schools to those who purchase one of their performance vehicles. Cadillac is the latest one.
      Starting with the 2017 Cadillac ATS-V and CTS-V, buyers will be eligible for a two-day course at Cadillac's V-Performance Academy. The Academy is based at Spring Mountain Motor Resort and Country Club near Las Vegas, Nevada. The course "is designed for drivers of all experience levels and includes dynamic car control exercises, visual skill development, and proper cornering techniques." There will also be time in the classroom to explain various things.
      We'll admit Cadillac's V-Performance Academy is quite the steal as the brand will cover a two-night stay in one of the Spring Mountain on-site condos, along with breakfast and lunch. All you need to do is buy the plane ticket to get to Las Vegas.
      Source: Cadillac
      Press Release is on Page 2


      Cadillac Announces V-Performance Academy
      Two-day driver training included with every 2017 V-Series Cadillac today announced the Cadillac V-Performance Academy driving experience at Spring Mountain Motor Resort and Country Club near Las Vegas, Nevada. The two-day driver training program will be included in the purchase of any of Cadillac’s high-performance V-Series models: 2017 Cadillac ATS-V Sedan, 2017 ATS-V Coupe and 2017 Cadillac CTS-V sedan.
      Cadillac is the only luxury automotive brand offering a two-day driver training with the purchase of a high-performance vehicle. Customers will register online for the experience after taking delivery of a 2017 V-Series model. The V-Performance Academy program may also be purchased as a stand-alone experience.
      “Cadillac is a brand for passionate people, by passionate people,” said Nathan Tan, associate director of Brand Partnerships and Experiences for Cadillac. “V-Series customers are in many ways nearest the core of the Cadillac brand, and we are proud to offer this valuable training with our thrilling products.”
      The V-Performance Academy includes:
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      “The V-Series are the most-track capable Cadillac models ever, using exclusive technologies tuned by a select group of dedicated engineers,” said Brandon Vivian, Cadillac executive chief engineer. “These technologies, such as Magnetic Ride Control, Performance Traction Management software and the Performance Data Recorder, set the Cadillac ATS-V and Cadillac CTS-V apart from all other luxury cars and are the tools drivers will experience at the V-Performance Academy.”

      View full article
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