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    Cadillac's President Reminds Us A New Cadillac V8 Is Coming


    • Johan stops by Facebook to give someone a talking to.

    Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen is known for slipping out little bits of information. Case in point was earlier today when an analyst in a Facebook group said Cadillac would axing the V8 from most of their models aside from Cadillac CTS-V and Escalade. Johan joined the discussion and went on to correct this by stating that there will be a new V8 engine that will be purpose built for Cadillac. In Johan's words, "There absolutely will be another state -of - the -art mega powerful highly efficient new 8- cylinder from Cadillac, besides the CTS- V engine. Purpose designed for Cadillac....the V8 Cadillac is alive and well today, and will be in even better shape tomorrow."

     

    Now, news of a forthcoming Cadillac V8 isn't breaking news. Johan has previously hinted at a twin-turbo V8 coming for the Cadillac CT6, but it was interesting to see Cadillac's President join in a Facebook discussion and give us more description of the engine. I contacted a Cadillac spokesman about the exchange and he pointed out such an engine will appear in "later in the second half of this decade". So look for Cadillac CT6 to gain a V8 in the 2017-2018 time frame.

     

    Source: Facebook

     

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    This is good news, there need to be more V8s.  But 2-3 more years wait?  I guess the problem goes back to not keeping the V8s going in the 2009-2015 time frame.  So it is back to square one.

     

    Hopefully a V12 is to follow, but no business case would exist for one, so they won't do it, even though they should.

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    BMW and MB will be forced to kill their V12, Europe is pushing to pass even more stringent standards on engines and technology is already showing that the days of the V12 are very limited. V8 will be the new V12.

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    Maybe they've dusted off the UV8 that was supposed to replace the Northstar? I was under the impression it was fairly far along. 

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    Mercedes will never kill that V12, they just redid the 5.5 liter V12 to a new 6.0 liter V12 for 2015 model year, and the plan is to keep it going. BMW won't drop the V12 because they need it for Rolls Royce. Those two brand have enough hybrids and diesels and the Mercedes V12 has start/stop on it to curb emissions.

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    The Mercedes V12 is Bin5 ULEV III 125 emissions rating so it meets California emissions for 2025.   The S600 scores a 6 on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being an all electric, zero emission car, a CTS also scores a 6 in smog rating.    The V12 will be around a while.

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    I would expect their own engines fully new and not some rehash of some outdated still born design.
     

    Based on what the engineers are finding I would expect a 4.0 TT V8, 3.0 TT V6 and 2.0 Turbo.  No V12

     

     

    SMK you need to get a grip that it takes more than 2-3 years to build, design and build 3 engines not really due in cars set for 2020 and later. This is not just some rehash of a head gasket blowing N Star.

     

     

    The fact is for that they intend to do is amazing in todays market let alone for GM to be willing to do it. This will be something special as this kind of stuff just dose not get the full support in this kind of business climate.

    The fact is that GM going along with the fact that they admit even if they have good cars today that they are still not good enough and allocate $12 to make them even better is amazing.
     

    The key here is if GM can get these cars right they don't have to beat MB and BMW in sales but make high profits per unit to be successful. These cars if done right will generate profits in the area where trucks have been doing for years. It is not like a Malibu where you have to sell 150K units of each model as with low volumes only a third of that will generate profits 3-4 times a BU.
     

    This is how this segment is being looked at and why GM is willing to put money. Cars like the 300 and Lincoln are not doing this as they are cheaper and then get further discounted from there. That is why price point at Cadillac is a priority. If they can't get the higher price for what they have now they will fix the cars, marketing and dealers to attain that goal.

     

    I really have a gut feeling what we see in 2020 will be something we never though GM or Cadillac would ever do again. They will build a car that is a standard of the world in more than just slogan.

     

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    I'd think twin turbo 4.0 liter.  If they have a 2.0 liter turbo four and a 3.0 liter turbo 6, it only makes sense.

    I think so too: maybe two 2.0L blocks paired?

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    I'd think twin turbo 4.0 liter.  If they have a 2.0 liter turbo four and a 3.0 liter turbo 6, it only makes sense.

    I think so too: maybe two 2.0L blocks paired?

     

    Wouldn't that make it an inline 8?

     

    I'd rather see two 3.0 v6 blocks paired for a V12.

     

    A V12 should be considered if that configuration will still be used by European brands.

     

    But the 4.0L V8 twin turbo speculation is the most reasonable.

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    Keep in mind that the Cadillac El Miraj had a 4.5 liter twin-turbo V8 that produced 500 horsepower and 500 lb-ft of torque. Seeing as the new 3.0TT can produce 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque (133 hp/l) the El Miraj's numbers seem about 100hp and 100 lb-ft soft.  

     

    My take?  The horsepower number of the concept is the correct one, but Cadillac will do it with 4 liters instead of 4 and a half. 

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    I'd think twin turbo 4.0 liter.  If they have a 2.0 liter turbo four and a 3.0 liter turbo 6, it only makes sense.

    I think so too: maybe two 2.0L blocks paired?

     

     

    Oh God no. This is not the old GM where they will do cheap short cuts to save a buck.

    The V8 will be a entire new engine and not stuff grafted together to save money.

     

    The only reasons I say 2.0-3.0-4.0 is because with a turbo engines this size has been found to be the most efficient for power and economy. In the SAE story I read a while back they said these sizes were found to be the sweet spot and are why they are so common today.

     

    God you made me think of that awful Quad 4 grafted V8 they did. At least it never went production and gave way to the N star that had its own issues with underfunded development.

    Excuse me while I go wash my memory. LOL!

     

    My bash on the N star is not as much design as it was on the quality of the build. The engine needed things like head studs vs. the cheap head bolts and it could have avoided many of the blown head gaskets in several of the years. Also the ring issue was never solved for the people who did not run them hard. Carbon build up lead to a lot of oil use issues. This was most problematic on Cadillac's owned by older people who never saw hard RPM. You often could take them and blow them out to fix it but many never knew to do that.

     

    Edited by hyperv6
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    I'd think twin turbo 4.0 liter.  If they have a 2.0 liter turbo four and a 3.0 liter turbo 6, it only makes sense.

    I think so too: maybe two 2.0L blocks paired?

     

     

    Oh God no. This is not the old GM where they will do cheap short cuts to save a buck.

    The V8 will be a entire new engine and not stuff grafted together to save money.

     

    The only reasons I say 2.0-3.0-4.0 is because with a turbo engines this size has been found to be the most efficient for power and economy. In the SAE story I read a while back they said these sizes were found to be the sweet spot and are why they are so common today.

     

    God you made me think of that awful Quad 4 grafted V8 they did. At least it never went production and gave way to the N star that had its own issues with underfunded development.

    Excuse me while I go wash my memory. LOL!

     

    My bash on the N star is not as much design as it was on the quality of the build. The engine needed things like head studs vs. the cheap head bolts and it could have avoided many of the blown head gaskets in several of the years. Also the ring issue was never solved for the people who did not run them hard. Carbon build up lead to a lot of oil use issues. This was most problematic on Cadillac's owned by older people who never saw hard RPM. You often could take them and blow them out to fix it but many never knew to do that.

     

     

    LOL I meant paired as in basic specs like bore, stroke, cylinder wall thickness. not gluing a couple 2.0L engines together :)

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    and in theory, you can use the same pistons from the 2.0 in the 3.0 and 4.0.

    That sounds like Ford's modular engine idea from the last 25 years...

    It goes back s lot further than that.

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    I'd think twin turbo 4.0 liter.  If they have a 2.0 liter turbo four and a 3.0 liter turbo 6, it only makes sense.

    I think so too: maybe two 2.0L blocks paired?

     

     

    Oh God no. This is not the old GM where they will do cheap short cuts to save a buck.

    The V8 will be a entire new engine and not stuff grafted together to save money.

     

    The only reasons I say 2.0-3.0-4.0 is because with a turbo engines this size has been found to be the most efficient for power and economy. In the SAE story I read a while back they said these sizes were found to be the sweet spot and are why they are so common today.

     

    God you made me think of that awful Quad 4 grafted V8 they did. At least it never went production and gave way to the N star that had its own issues with underfunded development.

    Excuse me while I go wash my memory. LOL!

     

    My bash on the N star is not as much design as it was on the quality of the build. The engine needed things like head studs vs. the cheap head bolts and it could have avoided many of the blown head gaskets in several of the years. Also the ring issue was never solved for the people who did not run them hard. Carbon build up lead to a lot of oil use issues. This was most problematic on Cadillac's owned by older people who never saw hard RPM. You often could take them and blow them out to fix it but many never knew to do that.

     

     

    LOL I meant paired as in basic specs like bore, stroke, cylinder wall thickness. not gluing a couple 2.0L engines together :)

     

     

     

    I know but it brought back some bad visions of the past.

     

    I could see this parts sharing on Chevy or other GM models but if you want exclusive engine you don't want to show a lot of parts sharing with a V8 with 4 cylinder pistons. While this is smart economically it is not smart in a higher class vehicle you are going to ask 2-3 times the price for. Sharing parts comes across as cheap cost savings in a class where you expect the engine to be well crafted for each and every vehicle.

     

    In this segment they can afford to spend more as they are making a lot more profit per each unit.

     

    Part of the problem Cadillac and many other GM car have had is they have shared too many drivetrain parts on models where it matters. Pontiac's heart and soul was their own engines and tunes. While the last TA models with Chevy engines were great cars they really were just rebodied Chevy models and really had little Pontiac DNA. IF they had not looked better than the Camaro they would have failed long ago.

     

    Cadillac needs to make 3 distinct engines with tunes for each and every model they serve. The engines need to be a part of each model not just what ever they had that they could put under the hood.

     

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    Most consumers have no idea if what's under the hood is shared with other brands let alone care. I doubt if exclusive engines would help sales.

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    Yeah.. the only brand I can see really sharing any of Cadillac's engines would be Buick.. and only in the top-end if an Avenir type vehicle was built. I think even in that iteration it would be overkill to go the Enthusiast's route for what really should be GM's Lexus rival. 

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    • By William Maley
      GM Announces January U.S. Sales, Affirms Positive Outlook
      DETROIT — General Motors (NYSE: GM) U.S. dealers delivered 195,909 cars, trucks and crossovers in January, down 3.8 percent year over year. Retail sales totaled 155,010 units, down 4.9 percent, and the company set a new January record for average transaction prices.
      “In early January, we focused on profitability while key competitors sold down their large stocks of deeply discounted, old-model-year pickups,” said Kurt McNeil, U.S. vice president of Sales Operations. “We gained considerable sales momentum as we rebuilt our mid-size pickup, SUV and compact crossover inventories from very low levels following record-setting December sales.”
      Inventories of most of these products were in the 30 – 50 days’ supply range at the beginning of January.
      January Highlights (vs. Jan. 2016)
      GM estimates that the seasonally adjusted annual selling rate (SAAR) for light vehicles was approximately 17.6 million units. GM’s ATPs, which reflect retail transaction prices after incentives, rose $1,200 per unit to $34,500, a new January record.  GM was the only domestic automaker and one of only two full-line automakers to reduce incentives as a percentage of ATP. GM spending was 12.7 percent, down 0.3 points, and the industry average was 12.3 percent, up 1.3 points. Rental deliveries were down 1 percent. Total fleet sales were up 1 percent on a 12 percent increase in Government deliveries and a 1 percent increase in Commercial sales. GM’s fleet mix was 21 percent of total sales. Small business deliveries were up 4 percent. Chevrolet Retail Sales
      The Cruze, up 22 percent, the Volt, up 56 percent, and the Trax, up 40 percent, had their best-ever January retail sales. Total sales were also January records. Spark deliveries were up 40 percent. Bolt EVs, which were available in California and Oregon during the month, had the fastest days to turn in the industry at 7 days. The Tahoe, up 8 percent, and Suburban, up 11 percent, had their best January retail sales since 2008. The Equinox was up 4 percent. The Colorado was up 9 percent for its best January retail sales since 2005. Total sales were also the highest January since 2005. Sales of the Silverado HD pickup were up 32 percent for the truck’s best January retail sales since 2008. Total HD sales were also the best since 2008. Buick Retail Sales
      Crossover deliveries were up 20 percent, driven by higher Encore sales and the first-ever Envision. Average transaction prices were up 9 percent, four times better than the industry average growth. GMC Retail Sales
      Deliveries of the Acadia were up 15 percent. Sierra deliveries were up 2 percent, for the truck’s best retail January sales since 2002. Average transaction prices were up 7 percent, more than three times better than the industry average growth. Cadillac Retail Sales
      Cadillac sales were up more than 1 percent. Crossover deliveries were up 11 percent, on the strength of the new XT5. Total Escalade deliveries were up 10 percent, driven by 7 percent increase in Escalade ESV retail sales. Average transaction prices were the highest in the brand’s history at $55,300, up about $1,000 year over year. GM Momentum Continues to Grow
      In 2016, GM was the industry’s fastest-growing full-line automaker on a retail sales basis, and Chevrolet has been the fastest-growing full-line brand for two consecutive years on a retail basis. Chevrolet grew retail market share in 2015-2016 by almost one full percentage point, which translates to more than 120,000 incremental sales.
      “Our go-to-market strategy in 2017 is the same as 2016,” McNeil said. “We are focused on strengthening our brands, growing retail sales and share, reducing daily rental deliveries and maintaining our operating discipline.”
      GM is optimistic about the year ahead because the economy is strong and the company’s four brands are dramatically expanding their product offerings in fast-growing crossover segments.
      Industry sales are expected to remain at or near record levels, with higher GM retail sales and market share on a year-over-year basis. GM’s deliveries to daily rental companies are expected to decline as a percentage of total sales for the third year in a row. GM will continue to match production with customer demand. Previously announced plans to reduce passenger car production at plants in Lordstown, Ohio and Lansing, Michigan were implemented at the end of January. GM’s operating discipline will help drive continued improvements in brand health and resale values. During January, IHS Markit said GM had the highest overall loyalty to a manufacturer for the second year in a row. Also, Kelley Blue Book gave seven Chevrolet and GMC vehicles awards for outstanding resale value, more than any other manufacturer. Ten all-new or recently redesigned crossovers are expected to drive GM’s 2017 sales results, including two new compact models, which will compete in the industry’s largest segment. Crossover Launches by Brand
      Chevrolet will have the industry’s broadest and freshest lineup of utility vehicles behind the 238-mile range Bolt EV; the 2018 Equinox, which arrives in showrooms soon; and the all-new Traverse, which arrives this summer. At Buick, crossovers are expected to account for as much as 75 percent of retail deliveries, up from 66 percent in 2016, driven by the Encore, Envision and Enclave. GMC, which has the highest average transaction prices of any non-luxury brand, will launch the all-new 2018 Terrain in late summer. It will complement the redesigned Acadia, which went on sale in late summer 2016. Cadillac will benefit from a full year of production of the new XT5 crossover, which is now the second best-selling vehicle in its segment.
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