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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Spying: Enough About The Cadillac ATS-V, Here's The CTS-V

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      Making Its Spy Shot Debut, the Next-Generation CTS-V

    The past few months have seen numerous spy shots of the Cadillac ATS-V come out. While its good to see that GM is working on it, there hasn't anything groundbreaking in that time. What is groundbreaking is getting the first spy shots of the bigger brother, the upcoming CTS-V.

    Undergoing some cold-weather testing, the CTS-V is wrapped up in some light camouflage, but there are some giveaways letting you know its true intent. The most noticeable item is the grille treatment with vertical bars. Autoblog says that the V-series will likely have different design traits from the standard models. There's also a meaty set of exhaust pipes sticking out.

    As for power, sources say a version of the 6.2L Supercharged V8 from the upcoming Corvette Z06 could be under the hood.

    The CTS-V could make its debut sometime next year as a 2016 model.

    Source: Autoblog

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    Proportions look nice, I do like the quad exhuast and interesting from vertical bars. I can see the Vertical LED daytime lights in the front lower facia as well as it looks like LED's around the headlights. Traditional bulge in the hood for the supercharger. Very exciting to see this model out and about.

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    1. The CTS-V is making a comeback.

    2. It will have a V8 engine (supercharged or otherwise).

    3. Will it have the 7-speed manual like the Corvette?

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    1. The CTS-V is making a comeback.

    2. It will have a V8 engine (supercharged or otherwise).

    3. Will it have the 7-speed manual like the Corvette?

    No one knows if the CTS-V will have a Seven-Speed or not. Likely we'll hear more about that in the coming months.

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    2016 seems far off, you'd think they could have it out by this fall to be a 2015 model. I doubt that grille is what they will use, it is probably just on there to throw people off, it doesn't fit Cadillac at all. I wonder if it will have AWD with launch control since that is what a lot of others are doing.

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    2016 seems far off, you'd think they could have it out by this fall to be a 2015 model. I doubt that grille is what they will use, it is probably just on there to throw people off, it doesn't fit Cadillac at all. I wonder if it will have AWD with launch control since that is what a lot of others are doing.

    I'm thinking that want to give the ATS-V some breathing room before the CTS-V comes out. Just speculating here.

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    I agree with Bill, I think the ATS-V will be RWD only, CTS-V will be AWD and the date is for giving breathing room to the ATS-V sales.

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    Ever notice that BMW doesn't have to give the M3 breathing room and hold back an M5, or Mercedes doesn't have to limit power on a E63 because they are afraid people won't pay more for an S63? They are different products targeting different buyers. I never understood why GM gets worried about competition from within. It is like the old "it can't be faster than a Corvette" logic, but what if Mercedes, BMW and Audi had a car faster than a Corvette? Should Cadillac not try to match their competition, or should they make the CTS-V slower than a Corvette because they are afraid of making the Corvette look bad. The E63 does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, that is what Cadillac should shoot for and if they make the Corvette look bad, then too bad for the guys that designed the Corvette, plus they aren't really comparable vehicles anyway.

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    Ever notice that BMW doesn't have to give the M3 breathing room and hold back an M5, or Mercedes doesn't have to limit power on a E63 because they are afraid people won't pay more for an S63? They are different products targeting different buyers. I never understood why GM gets worried about competition from within. It is like the old "it can't be faster than a Corvette" logic, but what if Mercedes, BMW and Audi had a car faster than a Corvette? Should Cadillac not try to match their competition, or should they make the CTS-V slower than a Corvette because they are afraid of making the Corvette look bad. The E63 does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, that is what Cadillac should shoot for and if they make the Corvette look bad, then too bad for the guys that designed the Corvette, plus they aren't really comparable vehicles anyway.

    Agreed.

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    Ever notice that BMW doesn't have to give the M3 breathing room and hold back an M5, or Mercedes doesn't have to limit power on a E63 because they are afraid people won't pay more for an S63? They are different products targeting different buyers. I never understood why GM gets worried about competition from within. It is like the old "it can't be faster than a Corvette" logic, but what if Mercedes, BMW and Audi had a car faster than a Corvette? Should Cadillac not try to match their competition, or should they make the CTS-V slower than a Corvette because they are afraid of making the Corvette look bad. The E63 does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, that is what Cadillac should shoot for and if they make the Corvette look bad, then too bad for the guys that designed the Corvette, plus they aren't really comparable vehicles anyway.

    He said timing-wise not power-wise. You do not want two performance sedans released within a year of each other in the same dealership. Show me when C63, E63 and S63 were released within's gnat's rear of each other. BMW took three years to bring its M3 after the regular 3, CTS is taking a year off. This is not WW2 with "just in time no money issue" manufacturing.

    And AMG sedans are possibly worst to prove your point of "not cannibalizing" because yes MB does give those cars breathing room.

    HP C63 < E63 ~50hp even when it was a 6.2 sitting in the E.The excuse was air intake and exhaust, yet the C63AMG 507 sits merrily on the same HP number as E63 when it had the 6.2. And compare the torque ratings on the S63 and E63 and post them here please.

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    C63 AMG was 2008, E63 and SLS AMG were 2010, CLS63, SLK55 and SL63 were 2012, S63 was 2014, C63 will repeat in 2015. They have done 6 new AMG cars in a 5 year span, and the nice thing is the AMG model is available the same year as the normal car. Plus they did a new ML and GL in that time span also and they have AMG models. The new S-class is out, the S63 is already available, and the S600 and S65 will follow this spring which is only about 6 months later. But they don't release the S-class, then make you wait 2 years to get an AMG S-class.

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    C63 AMG was 2008, E63 and SLS AMG were 2010, CLS63, SLK55 and SL63 were 2012, S63 was 2014, C63 will repeat in 2015. They have done 6 new AMG cars in a 5 year span, and the nice thing is the AMG model is available the same year as the normal car. Plus they did a new ML and GL in that time span also and they have AMG models. The new S-class is out, the S63 is already available, and the S600 and S65 will follow this spring which is only about 6 months later. But they don't release the S-class, then make you wait 2 years to get an AMG S-class.

    Again you supported (William's) my argument and refuted yours by telling me MB introduced its C63, E63 and S63 sedans with a gap of at least 2 years, not in the same MY.

    And why do we care for what is the time frame for the S class or how AMG releases its vehicles? This is a Cadillac thread, stop hijacking it and get back on the topic.

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    SMK... are you able to ever make a post that doesn't contain some reference to the S-Class?

    "Sure, that Elantra is a nice car.. but for just 10 times the price, you could get yourself an S-Class AMG!"

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    If GM is using the ZO6 powertrain for the CTS-V, then it would help to have the ZO6 on the market first before the CTS-V.

    I do not think that this has anything to do with the ATS-V.

    I also do not think that we will have to wait for the 2016 model year to get a CTS-V.

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    I think 2015 model year should be doable for the CTS-V. It shouldn't take 2 years after the initial car comes out to drop a bigger engine in and add some trim. Model year 2 of the body style is reasonable, many cars are done like that, the base sedan comes out, in year 2 the coupe and sport version arrive, a couple years later a mid-cylce refresh.

    My guess is 6.2 liter supercharged V8 again, GM sticks with what they know, and it is what they have in the parts bin. I doubt they go with the 625 hp of the Z06, and who knows if air intakes and exhaust are factors, but I think they'd like to have at least 580 to improve on the old car, and my guess is it will come in at 600 hp. But if it is rear wheel drive they won't be able to get that power down and a 420 hp Audi S6 might beat it 0-60. You need grip, just look at the S65 and S63 for example, the S63 is faster 0-60 because of all wheel drive.


    SMK... are you able to ever make a post that doesn't contain some reference to the S-Class?

    I guess not.

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    I think 2015 model year should be doable for the CTS-V. It shouldn't take 2 years after the initial car comes out to drop a bigger engine in and add some trim. Model year 2 of the body style is reasonable, many cars are done like that, the base sedan comes out, in year 2 the coupe and sport version arrive, a couple years later a mid-cylce refresh.

    SMK... are you able to ever make a post that doesn't contain some reference to the S-Class?

    I guess not.

    Unlike AMG studio, which just dumps a specialty vanilla engine in all the hi-performance cars while giving some nose job, carbon fiber lipstick and little botox in the suspension, M, RS, V and even F studios actually do more to aerodynamics, handling, and suspension tuning. Many times engines come unique to the car. CTS-V had its own engine when introduced. These things need time. A staggered launch helps the lineup fresh rather than dumping all models in one go. It also helps to improve any initial niggles to have a smooth launch for a model that is considered top of the line.

    Per your Cadillac theory (Other luxury manufacturers do it so should Cadillac) - to the contrary - everyone else does it so should MB.

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    AMG does a lot, AMG was once it's own company, it isn't just a trim level. AMG designed the SLS, there isn't a V-series or M team designing a whole car. The E63 has a different engine, transmission, and the awd system is unique to AMG, it isn't the same 4Matic on an E550, so a lot goes on there, they just co-develop so the product gets out faster. M-B is winning in almost every segment look at the sales charts, the CLA beats the Audi and BMW competition, in midsize and full size sedans and full size SUV Mercedes has the sales champ. Mercedes doesn't need to copy Audi by making fancy versions of a VW or copy Lexus by making the Camry or now Avalon into their #1 luxury car. Mercedes knows what they are doing, they are fine.

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    Back to Cadillac. We are not here for AMG history lesson. We get that you love MB and AMG and data will be twisted to distort your pony to win the race.

    There is ONE vanilla engine from AMG which is put in all appliances MB manufactures to tart them up. AMG introduces one engine in a mid-cycle while phasing out the other, enough to give the perception of it has two engines. From 5.5 N/A and Kompressor to 6.2 to now the TT and now the desire to go to a smaller TT and hybrid! AMG should be ashamed of putting the same engine in a $276,000 car as it puts in a $60,000 car.

    Mclaren did the SLR and because it decided to show middle finger to MB and have its own supercar, AMG was selected to design the next vehicle. Just because the R&D operating structure of MB/AMG is different does not mean it is the best and the people working there are with God status.

    The fact that you constantly bring your storied brand to compare lowly Cadillac is a victory for Cadillac itself. In less than 10 years since the first CTS-V rolled out from a ragtag team of GMPP division rednecks who did not have a bluechip of AMG tattooed on their shoulders to a formidable sedan enough to twirl around the Nurnburgring faster than many of AMG's so called sports cars.

    Is Caddy perfect? Heck no. But it is not as miserable as every drivel you save and spend on any topic remotely related to Cadillac. Cadillac needs its own identity not a carbon copy of that of the German high end generic appliance manufacturer.

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    AMG haters are just jealous. They have more than one engine too, the 2.0 turbo, the 5.5 N/A in the SLK, the 6.2 N/A which is soon to be phased out, but a 4.0 bi-turbo is replacing it, 5.5 bi-turbo V8, and the V12 bi-turbo. So that is 5 engines, and they'd still have 4 if the 4.0 replaces both the 5.5 and 6.2.

    I don't think Cadillac should copy AMG, just like they shouldn't copy BMW and BMW doesn't try to copy Mercedes/AMG. Each brand has to have something unique, because people don't want to buy the copy when they can get the original version. What Cadillac should strive towards is a broader lineup of V-series cars. The problem is Cadillac doesn't have many body styles of cars, or no true sports car in the line up and their SUVs aren't conducive to turning into a V-series. Making coupe and convertibles out of the ATS and CTS is a start, but they still need a roadster of some kind, whether that be like the Z4 or the F-type or the SL, they need a sports car.

    As far as the CTS-V goes, I am predicting Z06 engine tuned down a little to 580-600 hp, rear drive, 6 speed auto or 7 speed manual. But I think it should have an 8 speed auto, and an all wheel drive option. I prefer rear wheel drive, but with that kind of power the back end is going to be wild if you are putting all the power on 2 wheels. I am going to guess $89,795 for price.

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    580 would only be a 24-HP bump. The 2G CTS-V surprised most when it's official numbers were released, I expect the same on the 3G V. I'm going to guess a minimum of 610.

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    If the CTS-V has the same drivetrain as the ZO6, then there should be an 8-speed automatic and a 7-speed manual transmission.

    As far as output goes, it should be less than the Corvette ZO6 but not less than 600 hp.

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    I don't think it should be less than the Z06 just for the sake of being less so the Corvette can have the highest number, but I could see GM doing that. If the engine has less just because of the way the intake and exhaust work or for vibration or noise reasons, that makes sense. I do think they'll want 600 hp for advertising purposes.

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    I don't think Cadillac should copy AMG, just like they shouldn't copy BMW and BMW doesn't try to copy Mercedes/AMG. Each brand has to have something unique, because people don't want to buy the copy when they can get the original version.

    "Mercedes/BMW has X, so Cadillac also needs X in order to compete."

    You do say that quite a bit... implicitly, if not explicitly.

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