Dodge Challenger Adds All-Wheel Drive for 2017

This car, with that propulsion system and at that price, just doesn't make sense to me.

Pair it up with a V8 and stop wasting everyone's time FCA. Good grief. They are just phoning it in if it doesn't involve a Jeep or a Fiat. Probably why they are headed to the great crapper in the sky. 

29 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

This car, with that propulsion system and at that price, just doesn't make sense to me.

Me either....

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Pair it up with a V8 and stop wasting everyone's time FCA. Good grief. They are just phoning it in if it doesn't involve a Jeep or a Fiat. Probably why they are headed to the great crapper in the sky. 

...and can't get there fast enough IMHO.  They are copying a design from 1970 for crying out loud...I was 5 years old in 1970....now several people I went to high school with are grand parents...when you rely on a design from half a century ago, your brand is dead....

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Me either....

...and can't get there fast enough IMHO.  They are copying a design from 1970 for crying out loud...I was 5 years old in 1970....now several people I went to high school with are grand parents...when you rely on a design from half a century ago, your brand is dead....

I have no problem with the design but this is just pure neglect and half-assery by FCA. 

AWD 

V6 

AWD w/ V8

FCA giving us quality real products the customer wants 

13 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I have no problem with the design but this is just pure neglect and half-assery by FCA. 

I have no problem with the design per se, but when the main car they are relying on is a copy of a half century old design, and they go half way on the power train, that to me really shows they don't care much.

Show me that you care and then maybe I will be willing to drop coin on product....

Boo on leaving the 5.7 out of the equation.  That said, i could see myself getting a used one as a dail driver in a few years time.  I am really starting to wonder if the reason the Hemi AWDs died was actually sales or something else, like the Hemi and 8 speed being too large to fit the current AWD system, at least without making i look like a 4x4?  Heck, let's just jack the MFer up, give it underbody armor and some nice fat all terrain tires, give the the Hemi and sale them like hotcakes in the northern region.  I mean wtf not!

Honestly though, if they had put the 5.7 in, people would bitch it isn't the 6.4.  if they put the 6.4 in people would bitch because they didn't use the hellcat.  it is kind of like them killing car models to concentrate on the much higher demand SUVs and people bitch.  Ford says they are going to do it and they get praise.  They could replace every model tomorrow with brand new ones all on new platforms and people would bitch.  just saying.......

Here is another example of where they need to put the money into making a new car on a new platform.

This is an old over weight Chrysler based on an Older over weight Benz E class from around the early 1990's.

It has gotten to the point that even the media does not even use this car in comparisons with the Mustang and Camaro.

Now they are pushing this back to 2021 so I get the feeling we may be seeing the last of the cars from Chrysler.  Sergio has raped and pillaged Chrysler Jeep to the point that they receive little in return.

Yet they have a new Alfa that will under perform in sales and never really be a challenger to the Germans outside being a car for those who want something different and like to spend time a the dealer waiting rooms.

I really wonder how long the Dodge engineers will hang around as they try so hard but get so little support.

2 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

Here is another example of where they need to put the money into making a new car on a new platform.

This is an old over weight Chrysler based on an Older over weight Benz E class from around the early 1990's.

It has gotten to the point that even the media does not even use this car in comparisons with the Mustang and Camaro.

Now they are pushing this back to 2021 so I get the feeling we may be seeing the last of the cars from Chrysler.  Sergio has raped and pillaged Chrysler Jeep to the point that they receive little in return.

Yet they have a new Alfa that will under perform in sales and never really be a challenger to the Germans outside being a car for those who want something different and like to spend time a the dealer waiting rooms.

I really wonder how long the Dodge engineers will hang around as they try so hard but get so little support.

Please show me any proof of this.  We actually knew for a very long time it would be 2021 before the LX replacements appeared.  Also, VERY little of LX was based on the old Benz platform and at this point EVERY single E-class part has been replaced and it now shares nothing with that old platform.  Also, for the size the weight is average, they really need Aluminum blocks on their Hemis to cut weight from he nose.  In this climate and with what is selling it makes MUCH more sense to concentrate on trucks and SUVs unless you are Toyota or Honda, that is just how it is right now and you act as if they are the only ones doign this when that isn't remotely the truth.

24 minutes ago, Stew said:

Honestly though, if they had put the 5.7 in, people would bitch it isn't the 6.4.  if they put the 6.4 in people would bitch because they didn't use the hellcat.  it is kind of like them killing car models to concentrate on the much higher demand SUVs and people bitch.  Ford says they are going to do it and they get praise.  They could replace every model tomorrow with brand new ones all on new platforms and people would bitch.  just saying.......

I see what you're saying but being in any variation of a V8 is a no brainer to me. 

3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I see what you're saying but being in any variation of a V8 is a no brainer to me. 

Me too, but you know what I say is correct.  If they decide to counter with an AWD Camaro it will simply use ATS hardware which means turbo 4 or V6 and this wouldn't surprise me at all.  I bet they would get praised for it. 

19 minutes ago, Stew said:

Please show me any proof of this.  We actually knew for a very long time it would be 2021 before the LX replacements appeared.  Also, VERY little of LX was based on the old Benz platform and at this point EVERY single E-class part has been replaced and it now shares nothing with that old platform.  Also, for the size the weight is average, they really need Aluminum blocks on their Hemis to cut weight from he nose.  In this climate and with what is selling it makes MUCH more sense to concentrate on trucks and SUVs unless you are Toyota or Honda, that is just how it is right now and you act as if they are the only ones doign this when that isn't remotely the truth.

Actually the LX replacements were pushed back several times before the 2021 date was set. Either way it is long overdue. I love the Challenger but it is long past time to move it into a more modern platform. 

Just now, surreal1272 said:

Actually the LX replacements were pushed back several times before the 2021 date was set. Either way it is long overdue. I love the Challenger but it is long past time to move it into a more modern platform. 

I do agree there, but compared to say, the Taurus, explorer, flex, etc it isn't that old of a platform as all of those ARE on a platform from the 90s.  I am not saying I agree with the neglect, but you can't judge them harshly for a thin and then praise another fordoing the same thing.  The whole industry is heading in the direction .of concentrating on trucks and SUVs while leaving the cars alone for longer.  These are still businesses so they are still going to flow to where the profit is. 

I can't help but wonder who the target buyer for this is??

Who is demanding a huge, 2 door, auto-only AWD V6 sled priced in the mid-upper 30's?? What is the point of the car?? A Golf R, WRX/STI, or Focus RS all kill this car for similar or less money. And off a ton more practicality to boot.

In other words, AWD widebody Hellcat or bust. 

13 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I can't help but wonder who the target buyer for this is??

Who is demanding a huge, 2 door, auto-only AWD V6 sled priced in the mid-upper 30's?? What is the point of the car?? A Golf R, WRX/STI, or Focus RS all kill this car for similar or less money. And off a ton more practicality to boot.

 

In other words, AWD widebody Hellcat or bust. 

EXACTLY!

There are so many other vehicle out there for similar money(higher and lower) that do the job of this so much better. It isn't like this 3.6 is going to win many drag races matched to a 4500lb sled. realistically(and sadly) my 2.0T Escape probably won't be far behind this in a race. and it does all of the other things this is supposed to do...better.. AWD/4WD Jeep Cherokee 3.6 is in the same ballpark.

2 hours ago, Stew said:

Please show me any proof of this.  We actually knew for a very long time it would be 2021 before the LX replacements appeared.  Also, VERY little of LX was based on the old Benz platform and at this point EVERY single E-class part has been replaced and it now shares nothing with that old platform.  Also, for the size the weight is average, they really need Aluminum blocks on their Hemis to cut weight from he nose.  In this climate and with what is selling it makes MUCH more sense to concentrate on trucks and SUVs unless you are Toyota or Honda, that is just how it is right now and you act as if they are the only ones doign this when that isn't remotely the truth.

The media reported a while back that it was 2018 and then later it was pushed to 2021 Do a search on Autoblog or any of the other sites that reported it. It was well reported. 

The cars platform was based on the Benz platform and that is part of the weight issue. The car just as a Chrysler is two generations older than Ford and Chevy. 

For Chrysler to survive as a automaker they will need to have smaller cars be it of their own or with a partner. The market watchers have pointed that out clearly. Selling smaller cars to meet regulation in fuel economy is a must. They for sure are not doing it with Fiat as it is. 

Second the only small efficient crossovers they have are at Jeep. Ram is in need of a new truck soon too as Ford is ahead a gen and Chevy will have a new one in about a year and a half. It is a very competitive market. 

For someone who like Chrysler you appear much in denial and it is to their detriment. I am not a Chrysler fan but I for sure do not want to lose another American brand as we have lost too many. 

It was also made clear that there has been some consideration that they may kill the V8 also. Not sure how serious that is but Ford is nearly there now so it is a possibility. 

The real shame is they have some very talented engineers there as we have seen what they have done with the old outdated products. Imagine what they could do with a clean sheet of paper. If I were Sergio I would take all that wasted Alfa money and pump it into Chrysler and tell them to do what they do best. 

Where is this wrong. To defend what is going on is Nuts. In fact if this were GM I would as a GM fan be so very pissed off as I have been in the past when they have failed to do what was right. 

Even their trucks and SUV models need more work soon as they are getting old and not market leading. Not bad but not the best in segment other than the mini van that is dying like the Coupe. 

Let put it this way the LX is selling at low prices and high discounts. This is a segment where they could be making a good ATP on a modest amount of models but the powers to be in Italy don't care. 

The sooner you get rid of Sergio the better chance they have to pull it out. 

The real question is who will partner with Chrysler or who will buy Jeep and Ram from them when they fail. Fiat is hemorrhaging more money than Jeep and Ram can support. 

16 hours ago, ccap41 said:

EXACTLY!

There are so many other vehicle out there for similar money(higher and lower) that do the job of this so much better. It isn't like this 3.6 is going to win many drag races matched to a 4500lb sled. realistically(and sadly) my 2.0T Escape probably won't be far behind this in a race. and it does all of the other things this is supposed to do...better.. AWD/4WD Jeep Cherokee 3.6 is in the same ballpark.

Simple, someone looking for all-weather capability in a pretty package.  I doubt they are expecting high sales, but this is a no-brainer as there is basically no real work or certification needed to make his happen as everything is just being carried over from the Charger.  This actually should have been done years ago (like when they were still making Hemi AWDs. 

The reason for V6 only is obvious, it's not a performance biased system with torque limitations.

That said, kudos to FCA for offering it.  I bet it sells well. 

It just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Cherokee, Charger/300, Ford Edge, the new Equinox and Traverse do everything better... You can get a 4X4 Cherokee Laredo E(Not sure what the "E" is for but it's a step up from the Laredo by $2,000) for less money than this Challenger.

20 hours ago, Stew said:

Me too, but you know what I say is correct.  If they decide to counter with an AWD Camaro it will simply use ATS hardware which means turbo 4 or V6 and this wouldn't surprise me at all.  I bet they would get praised for it. 

In fairness though, the Camaro would get a pass but it's because it's much lighter than the Challenger and the addition of AWD would not hurt it that much. A V6 Challenger is just too heavy to justify the addition of AWD. That is the biggest problem with it. Just my opinion though. 

GM would also put a proper "athletic" AWD system in the Camaro that would likely be capable of SS duties as well. Not just whatever is on the shelf(okay maybe they would because of the ATS/CTS).

19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Cherokee, Charger/300, Ford Edge, the new Equinox and Traverse do everything better... You can get a 4X4 Cherokee Laredo E(Not sure what the "E" is for but it's a step up from the Laredo by $2,000) for less money than this Challenger.

No need to go to extremes. Many people love the style of the challenger, performance with V6 is more than adequate, would never own an SUV and don’t want 4 doors – yet live in a Northern climate and can’t justify a RWD coupe anything.  Until now.  And let’s face it, nobody will notice the added weight, because nobody will be cutting apexes with one.  But they will certainly notice AWD.

3 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

No need to go to extremes. Many people love the style of the challenger, performance with V6 is more than adequate, would never own an SUV and don’t want 4 doors – yet live in a Northern climate and can’t justify a RWD coupe anything.  Until now.  And let’s face it, nobody will notice the added weight, because nobody will be cutting apexes with one.  But they will certainly notice AWD.

So you narrowed the population down to like 5 people.

1: You and everybody in the US knows it is a SUV/CUV craze happening, not coupes

2: Add an AWD system to an already bloated car and performance is..like the Cherokee

3: How many people "won't own a vehicle w/ 4 doors"? Again, almost none. This is supported by the SUV/CUV sales and car sales being down.

4: Narrow that field down to the northern third of the US and you have 5 people who will buy these.

4 hours ago, Stew said:

Simple, someone looking for all-weather capability in a pretty package.  I doubt they are expecting high sales, but this is a no-brainer as there is basically no real work or certification needed to make his happen as everything is just being carried over from the Charger.  This actually should have been done years ago (like when they were still making Hemi AWDs. 

This!!!!