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    William Maley

    GM Could Make a Full-Scale Return to Europe

      Europe isn't fully gone from General Motors

    Despite General Motors mostly leaving the European market with the sale of Opel and Vauxhall to PSA Group earlier this year, the automaker isn't ruling out a full-scale return.

    During a recent meeting of the Automotive Press Association in Detroit, GM CEO Mary Barra said the company would "absolutely" consider a return to the European market, adding that "nothing keeps us from going back." But it will be some time before GM decides to go back. According to Barra, the company would need to build out a lineup of "transformative products" like electric or self-driving vehicles to make it worthwhile.

    General Motors does have a small presence in Europe with Cadillacs being sold by 45 dealers - most of them in Germany and Switzerland. The Chevrolet Camaro and Corvette are also sold in small numbers.

    Source: Motor1

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    11 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    Yes, GM withdrew Chevrolet back in 2015 --> https://www.topgear.com/car-news/usa/chevrolet-dead-europe

    They'll have an exceedingly hard time regaining the trust of Europeans so soon after that.  They'd almost need to start a new brand or maybe sell there as Holden.

    It's not like Peugeot here which has been gone for 2 decades and no one remembers.......

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    Interesting, at Least GM can focus on building up a war chest of money, pay off debt and get prepped to make a full global push once they have the right pieces in place. Totally agree with this. Biggest mistake was them buying Opel to begin with I always thought versus building out a focus dealership network.

    I agree with Drew, GM needs to build out a proper network rather than rely on old Opel or other brand locations to sell a few cars.

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    23 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    They'll have an exceedingly hard time regaining the trust of Europeans so soon after that.  They'd almost need to start a new brand or maybe sell there as Holden.

    It's not like Peugeot here which has been gone for 2 decades and no one remembers.......

    GM Daewoo making a triumphant return!

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    On 12/19/2017 at 11:59 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

    Wait... did Chevy leave entirely? I thought they were still selling Cruze, Sonic, and Spark there.

    I won't be convinced by GM's Europe intentions until they actually put money into the dealership network. 

    That would be just the start....

    My friends in Europe don't have much nice to say about GM right now....

    On top of the china invading with their cheap cars......

    On 12/19/2017 at 2:27 PM, dfelt said:

    That is one sharp station wagon! :metal: 

    Love it in that Maroon!

    CHEVROLET-Cruze-Wagon-4521_16.jpg

    BRing Back WaGOns!!!

    Edited by daves87rs
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    5 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

    My friends in Europe don't have much nice to say about GM right now....

    When did Europeans ever say anything nice about GM?

    For those Europeans in Europe that actually knew about GM, they ALWAYS had something negative to say about GM. Including GM's heydays of the 1960s and 1970s... and during those times, the majority of European cars were not so good....oh the irony!!!

    When European cars got better and GM cars got worse...the negative comments got intensified. Because now...even the folk that did NOT know of GM were now all of a sudden experts on GM cars...

    Ill tell you...with great confidence but admittedly an assumption, but I will stand by my statement 1000%... BEFORE the 2009 meltdown and GM's world recognition of going bankrupt and the US (and Canadian) government bailing them out...MOST Europeans did NOT know that Opel was GM owned. And in fact....MOST Americans did NOT know that either.

    In fact...to THIS day...many Americans think the J-Platform car was solely an American car offering, Cavalier, Sunbird, Firenza, Cimarron... 

    In fact...to this day...many Americans think that the Chevy Monza and Vega and all other GM variants were soley American offerings...

    In fact...many Europeans praised these Opel variants of those cars on those platforms...but stupidly...had negative things to say about GM... 

    That English buffoon Jeremy Clarkson hated the Opel Vectra...only because he knew it was a GM product...

    Yet...the many Greek friends I knew in Greece in the 1990s all LOVED the Vectra...had some negative shyte to say about GM at that time....yet were OBLIVIOUS to the fact that the Vectra...was a GM product...

     

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    Europeans tended to like the European focused GM vehicles (likewise at Ford).  Attempts to sell American focused vehicles in the EU have largely failed.  Europeans bought a load of the old Mondeo which was sold here as the Contour.  But when it was unified and upsized to American standards, sales fell.   In Cologne, which is a Ford town, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Fiesta or Focus.  Both of those models sell poorly here with the Fiesta on death's door.

    American cars are largely viewed as too big and too inefficient by Europeans.... the theory behind trying to make a unified product that fits the needs of US / China / EU sounds good on paper, but doesn't take into account cultural differences. 

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    Yes. And the Escort MK whatever that was also hot rodded by Cosworth along with the Ford GT40 are still revered by Europeans.

    But all we both did was mention Ford of Europe cars. Ford.  What you said is true that American cars that were Eurocentric were respected by the Europeans in general, the thing with that is, even Corvettes were blasted by them.  I find Ford does much better than GM does in terms of respectability in Europe. 

    The C5R raced and won and yet only then were the wheels SLOWLY turning for respectability. The C6R came and even then, some blasted it for being cheap. Talking about not wanted to let go some of the unwarranted stereotypes. 

    The French LOVE the Corvette. I guess the wheels of respectability for the Corvette starts in French and goes from there.

    The French also loved the Vipers racing. 

    I will not talk about Cadillac in Europe with the STS as that was a fail for obvious reasons. The reasons you stated. Too big for European roads in general and not in the least fuel efficient or compliant for displacement taxes European countries impose. A 4.6 liter V8 might be a small V8 by American standards, but 4.6 liters is HUGE displacement for Europe even today, never you mind what it was in the 1990s. 

    So while there was and still is reasons to hate on GM in Europe, sometimes the hatred is unwarranted. Harsh criticisms sometimes could be too harsh. The STS was not a bad vehicle. But the way Europeans blasted it, you would think it was the worst thing ever. Yet quality and reliability of Mercedes Benz cars of the 1990s and Jaguars were not exactly um....stellar.  The STS problem for Europe was that it was too big of a car for Europe...not that it wasnt reliable...(OK...Northstar V8 gasket leaks were a big enough deterrent...but M-B and Jaguar were just as self-destructive...but Europeans loved those unconditionally...) 

    Which leads us to another discussion.

    Why did Americans dump on American cars while Europeans will NEVER dump on their own industry. 
    Germans will dump on French cars, but will never do the same for German cars.

    The French will dump on German cars, but will never do that for their industry...

     

     

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    We need to send a bill to all of Europe for the rebuild and the saving of their butts from WWI and WWII. Even my relatives in Germany need to send us Money, so much would not be achieved if not for what America has given the world over and the lack of respect back.

    Also time to stop trying to be a world cop and just focus on rebuilding America with a focus on Multicultural all encompassing respect for each other.

    Course that would require truly draining the swamp and dumping the morons off in some other country.

    But I digress and back to the topic in hand of Europe not liking America. Fact is that except for the Autobahn, most of Europe is not able to handle the size of auto's that GM, Ford or FCA America makes.

    I think I agree with who ever said GM needs to go into Europe using the Holden Name for all auto's along with Corvette and Cadillac and call it a day.

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    On the "Chevy Life"  (IIRC) page on FB, which focuses on Chevy's tinier vehicles, every thread has multiple comments in broken English, begging for Chevrolet to return to wherever they pulled out of.

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    • By David
      GM announced today their new family of EV motors, The Ultium Drive family.

      The Ultium Drive family is made up of five interchangeable drive units and three motors. This will help transition the current portfolio of auto's to fully electric lineup. Performance, scale, speed to market and manufacturing efficiencies will provide GM significant advantages over past EV auto's. GM is leading the way with industry class leading drive units that use an electric motor and single-speed transmissions to apply power best in class horsepower and torque. Ultium Drives will be more responsive than internal combustion motors with precision torque control of the motors and smooth performance. The design and development of the Ultium Drive modular architecture allows us to offer industry-leading torque with power density across a wide spectrum of different vehicles types.
      GM has applied their 25 years of EV experience in creating the Ultium Drive family with lighter and more efficient designs. The Ultium Drive family integrates the power electronics into the drive units assemblies allowing for a 50% reduction in electronics over previous auto's thus saving cost and packaging space while increasing capability by 25 percent.

      To Quote GM press release:
      “As with other propulsion systems that are complex, capital intensive and contain a great deal of intellectual property, we’re always better off making them ourselves,” said Adam Kwiatkowski, GM executive chief engineer, Global Electrical Propulsion. “GM’s full lineup of EVs should benefit from the simultaneous engineering of Ultium Drive. Our commitment to increased vertical integration is expected to bring additional cost efficiency to the performance equation.”
      Ultium-Drive-to-Help-Power-GMs-All-Electric-Future.mp4


      https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/sep/0916-ultium-drive.html
    • By David
      Detroit Free Press covered the annual GM Analysts call this week and with the second quarter results it showed that GM has lost $800 million in the quarter but over all North American Earnings were breakeven and this was with 8 weeks of shutdown. Over all the Stock beat wall streets estimates and yet still sold off in large numbers during the pandemic closure.
      Analysts had plenty of questions for GM with a major question of will GM consider spinning off their technology arm which would include electric vehicles operations into a stand alone company?
      The idea of a stand alone GM Tech company is to recognize the advanced tech GM has over other auto companies and to unlock what Analysts see as considerable shareholder value. This new entity would allow access to cheap new capital to keep the old GM going till the new GM would replace it as a cutting edge tech auto company with what is seen as future strong growth.
      GM has reinforced it's future of all electric auto's, self driving auto's and what it expects to become a zero emission company with 20 new EV auto's on the market by 2023, the first being out in Q1 of 2021.
      The group of Analysts has suggested the new company be called Ultium based on GM's new battery tech.
      The CEO responded that GM is evaluating many scenarios for the future of GM. She had nothing further to say other than the board and executive team will consider all options for what is best for driving long-term shareholder value. Quote: "Nothing is off the table."
      Analysts have since added notes to their research suggesting that GM could already be considering this since so many start ups are valued more than GM such as Tesla, Nikola, Rivian, etc. The Billions of cheap dollars that could help drive GM long term into the future is hard to ignore.
      Some analysts say that to split the company would kill off the baby, meaning the EV side would die after the money was harvested from the stock sale as you only have the Chevrolet Bolt and the new company would have to follow Tesla in going back to the market for more and more money. This is based on what some analysts see as only a US/Canada interest in EVs compared to the rest of the world needing ICE.
      That being said it does show a clear line between those Analysts that see Europe and China leading in new tech with a change to EV's versus those Analysts that are more inline with the oil industry and imply that there is little to no interest in EV's.
      End result is WHAT WILL GM DO?
      I suspect GM will stay the course of using ICE auto's to fund the change to an all EV world. 50 years from now, people will be wondering why it took so long to dump ICE auto's in favor of EV's.
      What are your thoughts on this?
      https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2020/08/01/gm-electric-vehicles-mary-barra/5549426002/
       
       
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