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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    Ask Me About: 2019 Buick Regal GS

      The Buick Regal GS has come in a for a weeklong test. If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

    As I'm writing this, Michigan along with various other states is under the grasp of a polar vortex. It is currently -6' F (the wind chill drops that to -29' F). I was keen on getting the driver who was dropping off my next test vehicle into the Silverado quickly so he could warm up.

    That vehicle is the 2019 Buick Regal GS. As much I would have loved to get my hands on the new TourX, I have a bit more experience with the GS. In 2015, I spent a week in the previous Regal GS and came away quite impressed. The turbo-four, all-wheel drive system, and suspension made for a surprisingly taut sedan. This new one (introduced in 2017) gave me a bit of pause as it would swap the four-cylinder for the 3.6L NA V6. This engine has not been a favorite of mine as you have really to bury your foot to get the most of it.

    In the case of my tester, it happens to be brand spanking new with less than 400 miles on the odometer. Base is $39,070 and with a few options comes to $43,115. My first impressions?

    • I tend not to be a fan of red on vehicles, but the Regal GS pulls it off. The wide, long fastback shape wears this color quite well. Also, the wheels on this are quite sharp.
    • The seats are quite snug for me, mostly due to wide shoulders. There appears to be some adjustable bolstering and I'll see that helps.
    • WHY IS THERE NO OFF BUTTON FOR THE STOP-START SYSTEM BUICK?! Though the current weather kind of acts like an off switch.
    • The AWD system is biased towards the front as some experimentation in a snowy parking lot. I'm able to get the back step out provided I get a bit of throttle.

    I'll have some more updates and a small gallery in the next few days. If you have questions, be sure to drop them below and I'll do my best to answer them. Also, I will have a final update on the Silverado sometime tomorrow.
     

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    Cmicasa the Great
    7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    “The Stinger is a Kia”. With all due respect, you are way underestimating the Stinger. At least Kia will sell a RWD four door with some balls to it, IN A CUV DOMINANT MARKET, while GM pulled their best RWD sport sedan (the SS, which I love btw) because well, they never really gave it a fair shot in the first place. The point is further evidenced that there is no planned replacement for it (the SS) either, despite the possession of a viable RWD platform to on which to create one so your “GM chooses to bring new platforms to the market and kill old ones that have been around for 10 years” argument. Well, where is it? Also, if they like dumping 10 year old platforms, then explain the Cascadia and every other Buick that has been borrowed from the now defunct Opel? I get that you’re a huge GM fan and there are plenty of GM cars and trucks that I do like but they have laid some rotten eggs as well as having held on to old ness for longer than need be. Every car company has done it from where I stand. Just laying out some reality here.

     

    I won’t even get into the XT6. Seriously, I never get in one of those.

    Despite what U think.. GM has 3 RWD vehicles currently available that are in my experience.. better than the dead SS. Not my fault they make U pay to play.  Then again.. I guess with the SS they did too. As even that was normally was like $40-55K.

     

     

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    daves87rs

    Seeing a Stinger first hand, I’m pretty darn sure the GT would mop the floor with GS, and give a good fight to th A4. love the way the GS looks, but not as much from there...Hands down the Koreans are not playing, just dusting GM enough to rush faster into the EV world with their tail between their legs ......

    I honestly don’t expect GM to release anything that gets those hot chicks excited about your ride....and I can pretty much throw the new Vette in as well....simply put- GM’s heart is no longer in ICE, it’s in EV, riding sharing, scooters and go carts.....

    Still enjoy a good ride? Maybe even with a bit of power?  Well, I hear FCA might still have something for you.....

    Don’t see much of a future for the GS...unless you count the parking lot in front of your local American House......

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    A Horse With No Name
    8 hours ago, daves87rs said:

    Seeing a Stinger first hand, I’m pretty darn sure the GT would mop the floor with GS, and give a good fight to th A4. love the way the GS looks, but not as much from there...Hands down the Koreans are not playing, just dusting GM enough to rush faster into the EV world with their tail between their legs ......

    I honestly don’t expect GM to release anything that gets those hot chicks excited about your ride....and I can pretty much throw the new Vette in as well....simply put- GM’s heart is no longer in ICE, it’s in EV, riding sharing, scooters and go carts.....

    Still enjoy a good ride? Maybe even with a bit of power?  Well, I hear FCA might still have something for you.....

    Don’t see much of a future for the GS...unless you count the parking lot in front of your local American House......

    A little harsh on GM as a whole but not on the GS. Three pages in....no one can give me a single reason to be excited about this ride. Sad.

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    Robert Hall
    1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    A little harsh on GM as a whole but not on the GS. Three pages in....no one can give me a single reason to be excited about this ride. Sad.

    It's the only GM midsize AWD/FWD hatchback in the US market.  That's a unique configuration.  

    I know that's a small detail, but it was all I could think of...I didn't have GM in there, but then I remembered the Audi A7 and BMW 5 series GT also are midsize hatchbacks.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    surreal1272
    16 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    Despite what U think.. GM has 3 RWD vehicles currently available that are in my experience.. better than the dead SS. Not my fault they make U pay to play.  Then again.. I guess with the SS they did too. As even that was normally was like $40-55K.

     

     

    I get what you are saying but you missed the point of the post. May want to read that again. The price is irrelevant and the fact that GM has three RWD platforms illustrates my point. They have them yet they don’t fully use them. Instead, they have retreated from those platforms a bit and pushed more FWD CUVs through Cadillac of all brands, instead using those RWD platforms to put Cadillac above the likes of Acura, Volvo, and Lincoln. The most irrelevant part of your post though is the failure to realize that Kia is not nearly as bad as you think and I surely would not have said that about them ten years ago. They are reaching out with RWD cars in a CUV world while GM misses the boat and pushes FWD CUVs four to five years after they should have. 

    2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    A little harsh on GM as a whole but not on the GS. Three pages in....no one can give me a single reason to be excited about this ride. Sad.

    I’d happily take an AWD Tour X if it had the 420HP 3.6L Turbo found in the CTS.  That would actually be a bad ass Buick. Even with the common N/A 3.6L, it’s still tempting but again, I am a wagon person. Wishful thinking though as GM just doesn’t seem interested in giving Buick some real Powertrain options, much like they are doing to Cadillac’s CUVs. The NA 3.6L will only get you so far in a turbo driven world. 

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    Drew Dowdell
    On 2/2/2019 at 7:30 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

    SSEi  Bonneville was a better looking car...more American...probably better fuel economy real world...I would hazard a guess more fun to drive. We have lost ground.

    The SSEi was many of those things, but better handling was not one of them.   

    Also, the highway mileage of the Lacross with this same setup is actually very impressive on a long highway with a conservative foot. I would assume the lighter Regal would do better.

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The SSEi was many of those things, but better handling was not one of them.   

    Also, the highway mileage of the Lacross with this same setup is actually very impressive on a long highway with a conservative foot. I would assume the lighter Regal would do better.

    OK....you have my attention....

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    Drew Dowdell
    6 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    A little harsh on GM as a whole but not on the GS. Three pages in....no one can give me a single reason to be excited about this ride. Sad.

    It handles better than the Fusion Sport. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    It handles better than the Fusion Sport. 

    Do tell more...

    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It handles better than the Fusion Sport. 

    I was very impressed with the ride of the Fusion Hybrids that I got as rentals for Debate trips.

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    Drew Dowdell
    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Do tell more...

    I was very impressed with the ride of the Fusion Hybrids that I got as rentals for Debate trips.

    The Fusion Sport's suspension gets overwhelmed if driven hard.  They're a great high power family sedan, and fantastic for long distance driving... they are not road carvers. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The Fusion Sport's suspension gets overwhelmed if driven hard.  They're a great high power family sedan, and fantastic for long distance driving... they are not road carvers. 

    I didn't figure I would autocross either a Fusion Sport or the Buick in question. Destroying the tires on my daughters boyfriends 350Z would be much more fun...

    Still really like the idea of a CPO Stinger in a couple of years.

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    Drew Dowdell
    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I didn't figure I would autocross either a Fusion Sport or the Buick in question. Destroying the tires on my daughters boyfriends 350Z would be much more fun...

    Still really like the idea of a CPO Stinger in a couple of years.

    The GS, even the prior gen GS, is surprisingly capable for such tasks.  While it is less true with the current generation, the prior one was one of the best balance, best handling FWD cars out there. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The GS, even the prior gen GS, is surprisingly capable for such tasks.  While it is less true with the current generation, the prior one was one of the best balance, best handling FWD cars out there. 

    Interesting. Wonder what they sell for....will have to check car Guru's for CPO

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    Cmicasa the Great
    4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    I get what you are saying but you missed the point of the post. May want to read that again. The price is irrelevant and the fact that GM has three RWD platforms illustrates my point. They have them yet they don’t fully use them. Instead, they have retreated from those platforms a bit and pushed more FWD CUVs through Cadillac of all brands, instead using those RWD platforms to put Cadillac above the likes of Acura, Volvo, and Lincoln. The most irrelevant part of your post though is the failure to realize that Kia is not nearly as bad as you think and I surely would not have said that about them ten years ago. They are reaching out with RWD cars in a CUV world while GM misses the boat and pushes FWD CUVs four to five years after they should have. 

     

    Last I checked Kia/Hyundai/Genesis had a total of four RWD vehicles.. GM has almost as many under Cadillac. Do I think Chevy should get a AlphaL or Omega sedan? Hell yes, but I'm still not buying it.. My next is the CT6-V. 

    Hyundai still makes $h!ty cars..  and just because they went out and headhunted the designer fromVW/ Audi doesn't make them any better. U can dress up a pig... Yada Yada..  also what world do we live in where simply having a rear wheel drive vehicle automatically makes U legit? I mean U are a known Ford fan.. I don't know how u sleep through the night knowing they only have one rear wheel drive car in their entire lineup

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    Drew Dowdell
    4 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    Last I checked Kia/Hyundai/Genesis had a total of four RWD vehicles.. GM has almost as many under Cadillac. Do I think Chevy should get a AlphaL or Omega sedan? Hell yes, but I'm still not buying it.. My next is the CT6-V. 

    Hyundai still makes $h!ty cars..  and just because they went out and headhunted the designer fromVW/ Audi doesn't make them any better. U can dress up a pig... Yada Yada..  also what world do we live in where simply having a rear wheel drive vehicle automatically makes U legit? I mean U are a known Ford fan.. I don't know how u sleep through the night knowing they only have one rear wheel drive car in their entire lineup

    Stinger, K900, G70, G80, G90

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    A Horse With No Name
    9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Used 2016-2017 GSes can be had for stupid cheap prices. I see them regularly in the low $20k range. 

     

    8000 miles - $25,995

    Hell....that one is even an interesting color.

    8 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    Last I checked Kia/Hyundai/Genesis had a total of four RWD vehicles.. GM has almost as many under Cadillac. Do I think Chevy should get a AlphaL or Omega sedan? Hell yes, but I'm still not buying it.. My next is the CT6-V. 

    Hyundai still makes $h!ty cars..  and just because they went out and headhunted the designer fromVW/ Audi doesn't make them any better. U can dress up a pig... Yada Yada..  also what world do we live in where simply having a rear wheel drive vehicle automatically makes U legit? I mean U are a known Ford fan.. I don't know how u sleep through the night knowing they only have one rear wheel drive car in their entire lineup

    They only have one car in their projected Ford lineup....so they are one hundred percent rear wheel drive. I can dig that.

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    A Horse With No Name
    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    just a note that 2016 and up come with Carplay/Android Auto standard.  That's a criteria of mine.

    And a good one to have. I gave up convertibles when the Miata left the stable...told myself I would switch to music to make the drive enjoyable.

    14 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Used 2016-2017 GSes can be had for stupid cheap prices. I see them regularly in the low $20k range. 

     

    8000 miles - $25,995

    Are the Regals built in Canada at Oshewa?....it has a 2 as the first digit of the vin,

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    Drew Dowdell
    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    And a good one to have. I gave up convertibles when the Miata left the stable...told myself I would switch to music to make the drive enjoyable.

    Are the Regals built in Canada at Oshewa?....it has a 2 as the first digit of the vin,

    That generation was built first in Germany and then moved to Canada after the first year.  The current generation is built in Germany.

    Most of Buick's lineup in imports these days

    Regal - Germany

    Cascada - Poland

    Lacrosse - US

    Encore - Korea

    Envision - China

    Enclave - US

     

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    A Horse With No Name
    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    That generation was built first in Germany and then moved to Canada after the first year.  The current generation is built in Germany.

    Most of Buick's lineup in imports these days

    Regal - Germany

    Cascada - Poland

    Lacrosse - US

    Encore - Korea

    Envision - China

    Enclave - US

     

    Historically this is probably the last full line ICE product lineup ever for a domestic. They have a convertible, a wagon, three
    SUV's...sports sedan...

    Really as full of a lineup as you might expect from someone like Mercury in 1966 or something. Impressive.

    And sad that Buick cars will probably go away.

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    Drew Dowdell
    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Historically this is probably the last full line ICE product lineup ever for a domestic. They have a convertible, a wagon, three
    SUV's...sports sedan...

    Really as full of a lineup as you might expect from someone like Mercury in 1966 or something. Impressive.

    And sad that Buick cars will probably go away.

    Only VW could compete with (and beat, they have a coupe with the Beetle) that diversity

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    Robert Hall

    Speaking of Buicks, stopped by my local independent mechanic earlier to pick up my sister's Trax (had an oil change and other service), and they had 3 late model Buicks parked out front, in for service or whatever...a silver previous-gen LaCrosse, a dark red previous gen Regal, and a white Lucerne.  

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    Drew Dowdell
    6 minutes ago, frogger said:

    Speaking of VW, I wonder how the Arteon pricing will compare when it arrives Stateside

     

    Higher than CC was I assume.  It is a beautiful car in person.  I saw a couple in the wild when I was in France over the summer. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Higher than CC was I assume.  It is a beautiful car in person.  I saw a couple in the wild when I was in France over the summer. 

    It and the Stinger seem utterly Lustworthy...that and the CT6....

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    Cmicasa the Great
    28 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Stinger, K900, G70, G80, G90

    So 5..  Other than the number is there more to sway my dislike of the brands? I can put any of them up against one of the GM RWDs and still come out feeling like life is grand

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    frogger

    In Canada they are only offering Arteon at loaded (Execline) with AWD included...$48 grand, a few grand cheaper than the Stinger GT2 limited, Regal GS loaded, or Audi A5 Sportback Prestige.

     

     

     

     

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    Robert Hall

    Speaking of Kia and Genesis, these are strange times when you realize the Korean brands have the same number of RWD sedans on sale now in the US that the Detroit 3 have combined.....

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    Drew Dowdell

    Back to the GS, one thing where I was really disappointed in was the interior.  There is nothing bad about it... it's just ..... dull.

    1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

    Speaking of Kia and Genesis, these are strange times when you realize the Korean brands have the same number of RWD sedans on sale now in the US that the Detroit 3 have put together.....

    300, Charger, ATS, CTS, CT6.... yep

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    A Horse With No Name
    10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Back to the GS, one thing where I was really disappointed in was the interior.  There is nothing bad about it... it's just ..... dull.

    300, Charger, ATS, CTS, CT6.... yep

    I still like the 300 and Charger as well though.

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    surreal1272
    7 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    Last I checked Kia/Hyundai/Genesis had a total of four RWD vehicles.. GM has almost as many under Cadillac. Do I think Chevy should get a AlphaL or Omega sedan? Hell yes, but I'm still not buying it.. My next is the CT6-V. 

    Hyundai still makes $h!ty cars..  and just because they went out and headhunted the designer fromVW/ Audi doesn't make them any better. U can dress up a pig... Yada Yada..  also what world do we live in where simply having a rear wheel drive vehicle automatically makes U legit? I mean U are a known Ford fan.. I don't know how u sleep through the night knowing they only have one rear wheel drive car in their entire lineup

    “U are a known Ford fan”

     

    Yeah, I’m not touching that other than to say that you are clearly not familiar with my work. Two Ford fans have been banned or walked away from here (and MT) at least partially because of my many criticisms of Ford. Not a bragging thing btw but just illustrating the pure absurd ness of even insinuating that I am a Ford fan much less a “known Ford fan”. LMAO if you seriously even think that. 

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    oldshurst442
    2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Two Ford fans have been banned or walked away from here (and MT)

    Hey...give me some of that credit too. 

    Ive had run ins with them too.

    But, the other guy that got banned, Casa had probably more heated run ins than you and I together with him.

    But yeah...not a Ford guy you are. Not a fanboi of any brand Id say. 

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    surreal1272
    3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Hey...give me some of that credit too. 

    Ive had run ins with them too.

    But, the other guy that got banned, Casa had probably more heated run ins than you and I together with him.

    But yeah...not a Ford guy you are. Not a fanboi of any brand Id say. 

    You are correct. I’ve never had a brand allegiance but I had been really liking Cadillac until lately.

     

    That little exchange is a great a example of why I took a little break from the forums. I just can’t take certain things that seriously anymore. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    oldshurst442

    But...I think this dissing of the Buick Regal (GS or not) is taken too far.

    No...it aint a KIA Stinger as in its not a RWD vehicle. 

    Yes, it could have used the XTS' twin turbo V6 and a tweaking of that torque vectoring AWD system with a more aggressive transmission tune along with a more sporty suspension set-up.  

    2 things wrong with that approach...for Buick. 

    1. Buick has never been a sport sedan brand. It had...2 muscle cars in its history. Just 2.  The A-Body from the early1960s was luke warm at best.  In 1970 though, it became something worth talking about. Then the muscle cars from Buick ceased to exist. Until the Grand National arrived in the 1980s.  That muscle car lasted even shorter of a time than the original GS of the 1st generation A Body to the 2nd generation. 

    The rest of the hot Buicks were indeed, luxury touring cars. Personal luxury luxo-barge coupes. 

    2. The XTS TTV6 probably does sell well, but the other RWD V Series sport sedan Cadillacs dont. Even if Buick offered a more sport sedan Regal GS...few takers would be the result. Guaranteed.  

    We shouldnt be that harsh on the Regal. We should just look at the positives of what it is rather than look at the negatives of what it is not and what it could be. 

    It could have been a very capable vehicle that could have done battle with Audi's offerings, even if the interior falls short. But it aint an Audi competitor. Not it terms of price point. Not in terms of niche. Not in terms of image. Not in terms of anything.  

    Buick just needs to be Buick. Nothing more. What is that? Well, I think the Regal GS is in the perfect direction it needs to be. Buick should "GS" their CUVs (with better interiors) JUST like the Regal is and all will be well for Buick. 

    The 2018 Buick Regal GS is probably the best all around sporty and luxury Buick since the 1980s...

    Remember, the Grand National and the GNX were not that luxurious...nor did they handle all that good They were not bad handlers as far as GM cars of that era went, but pitiful really as compared to...lets say...BMW of that same era...and you dont know how much I hated saying that just now...I gotta wash my mouth off with soap...

    But yet, we wanna give it flack for whatever reason...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Cmicasa the Great
    7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    “U are a known Ford fan”

     

    Yeah, I’m not touching that other than to say that you are clearly not familiar with my work. Two Ford fans have been banned or walked away from here (and MT) at least partially because of my many criticisms of Ford. Not a bragging thing btw but just illustrating the pure absurd ness of even insinuating that I am a Ford fan much less a “known Ford fan”. LMAO if you seriously even think that. 

    Then maybe I'm wrong.. I'm confusing U with someone else.. Who are U?🤔  Actually.. Doesn't matter to me in the end.. U know that. Cause U know me. pfft😂 Sorry I don't put much thought into posting these days.. but today I'll put a little thought into it.. 

    GM, Ford, Chry.. all have a much more storied past, with two still remaining steadfast in RWD motivated vehicles...  way more than Hyundai. Personally I like the diversification of GM's portfolio of vehicles. My only complaint about the company as a whole stems from their heavy reliance on the 3.6L in so many vehicles that would benefit from existing twin turbo engines they already have tried and true. The Regal, Malibu, Impala, XT5, and XT6 included. Going back to the secondary subject, the Stinger, the Regal being the first, I am not attracted to the vehicle.. or anything from the Hyundai camp. Simple as that. The Regal is a more attractive vehicle for various reasons, and if I desired a mid-sized RWD vehicle I'd shop at neither. How is that hard to comprehend considering I have one of the epitomes of RWD mid-sizer sedans in my garage? Is there an issue because I won't downgrade.. or go balls to the wall in support of GM bringing a RWD sedan to the market for "every man?"

    My resume of RWD is solid.. past and present. I drive RWD almost daily in the winter with the Yukon. I drive RWD every weekend with the Z06. I drive RWD on every date nite with the CTS-V.. I drive RWD to every cruise with the 66 Impala SS. To some.. I might just have a RWD fetish.. I'm a RWD junkie.. I go cuckoo for RWD. My next car? RWD based AWD CT6V most likely. After that.. RWD based AWD Escalade most likely. Am I supposed to get upset that GM has also decided to appease the market whims of its primary customers in the CUV game.. women.. with FWD based vehicles that have one of the most advanced AWD systems on planet Earth? Nope. That goes for every one of the C1XXs.. the E2XXs. I mean... U are complaining about the fact that outta 16 actual cars GM sells here in the U.S. only 5 are RWD.. but give no evidence or credibility that more RWD available would make the the vehicles more desirable. In fact.. WHAT DO U DRIVE? I know for fact that the Chevy SS was available from the end of 2013 to the end of 2017.. Did U buy? Well why not? I mean the car is still basically brand new. I'm sure U could find a nice one still available GM Certified with under 10K on the odo. How about a Pontiac G8? a used one has to be going for under $10K by now?. U better be driving RWD. Otherwise , or by just looking at the market.. one might see that RWD doesn't sell in huge quantities outside of niche and luxury. GM has niche and luxury RWD based cars. I'm looking at the Stinger's numbers for '18.. it sold 16,806 vehicles. Genesis sold 9200 vehicles for all of 2018.. 3 vehicles included in that summary. 

    This is to anyone...

    Back to FWD vs RWD in C/SUVS. The XT5 sold more than the X5. More than the GLE. The Lexus RX sold more than any of them. The MDX.. right up there. Of course only at Cadillac does having FWD CUVs damage the brand. BULLS#!+!!! Tell me why?  Personally I'm of the mindset of as long as these CUVs fund me keeping the CTxs and Escalades in the line-up then I'm good. As long as Blazers, Equinoxs, and Traverses keep me getting Camaros, Vettes, and Tahoes.. GREAT Hell the only reason why FCA keeps the Charger, 300, and Chally going is because of net profit due to the fact that the platform is literally 1000 years old. I applaud their duping some into believing that the "Corolla Philosophy, but adding in a big engine and going fast in a straight line" is the American way.

    OH.. and just to piss someone out there who refuses to embrace change and moving into that change.. I hope EVs take over the entire automotive landscape by 2022😎

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    surreal1272
    • Popular Comment

    So much to say yet still missed the point made but whatever. Just the same old, same old from feverant fans who make assumptions about folks who dare to criticize their favorite brand and then sidestep their errors completely to go off on yet another tangent. Whatever floats your boat.

     

    Regarding the Regal, give me an AWD Tour X with a mythical 3.6L Turbo, and I’d be a happy man although I’d be happier had GM not killed off the CTS wagon. I will always be a little sour about that one.

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    A Horse With No Name
    2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    So much to say yet still missed the point made but whatever. Just the same old, same old from feverant fans who make assumptions about folks who dare to criticize their favorite brand and then sidestep their errors completely to go off on yet another tangent. Whatever floats your boat.

     

    Regarding the Regal, give me an AWD Tour X with a mythical 3.6L Turbo, and I’d be a happy man although I’d be happier had GM not killed off the CTS wagon. I will always be a little sour about that one.

    Agree on the CTS wagon, for sure.

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    A Horse With No Name
    12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    There is still room for a naturally aspirated 3.6... maybe not as a GS, but still. 

    Nissan has had the same NA V6 for like forever in the Maxima....seems to work for them. Of course, being mated to a CVT...

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    Drew Dowdell
    4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Nissan has had the same NA V6 for like forever in the Maxima....seems to work for them. Of course, being mated to a CVT...

    As does Toyota, and Ford, and Chrysler.  They're all good engines. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    As does Toyota, and Ford, and Chrysler.  They're all good engines. 

    I can't get the Fusion Sport out of my head though....white one lives on campus here in Columbus....I feel unnatural good vibes every time I walk past it.

    Just now, ccap41 said:

    Ford has all but completely phased out their n/a V6 because n/a V6's blow. 

    Depends on the NA V6. Lots of guys I worked with in the trades had fantastic luck with V6 Rangers that ran for decade or better.

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    ccap41
    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I can't get the Fusion Sport out of my head though....white one lives on campus here in Columbus....I feel unnatural good vibes every time I walk past it.

    They are one hell of a good used value. 21-23k. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    They are one hell of a good used value. 21-23k. 

    Yeah...even I am impressed by that. Compared to the crappy 1.5 in the Malibu, the cheap feel of the Maxima, and faults with other cars...lack of sound deadening in the Mazda 6...it seems like a real sweet spot.

    I know you would prefer a Charger but I have an odd fetish for the SHO Taurus also.  To be fair a part of me would also prefer a Charger V8 to the Taurus...

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  • Posts

    • G. David Felt
      Leasing / Buying an EV Auto in 2024

      By G. David Felt · Posted

      Tired of the Voom, Voom, Voom of a performance Borla exhaust, the wife asked for a new ride. This is my journey of what I experienced in working to buy/lease an EV in 2024. Let me first start off by saying that I am in no way a normal sized human. At 6 foot 6 inches 300 lbs with a 40 inch long legs, I am much larger and big bone than most Americans. My wife being of Korean descent is also larger than most at 5 foot 8 inches compared to the average female height of 5 foot in Korea. The USA census has the average female at 5 foot 4 inches tall and the average male at 5 foot 9 inches tall. With this knowledge of size, subcompacts, compacts are totally out of the question. I know mid-size to full-size is where our EV choices will be. My journey started with me asking myself, what are the Pro's and Cons of buying versus leasing an Electric Vehicle (EV). This image above pretty much wraps up what I came up with for leasing versus buying an EV and there was just one last thing to consider, technology. Battery Technology, controller boards and software are all in their infancy and as such will be probably changing greatly over the next few years. Do I take on the risk of buying and having the OEM stop updates to my EV or do I lease and go with trading it in and getting current technology in a new EV two or three years later? 2023 was an explosive year for auto companies as everyone was pushing to get an EV on the marketplace. Some made it with less than stellar results and others delivered. Trucks, SUVs and cars pretty much allowed one to have a selection of what style of EV they wanted. For my wife and I we had already decided to ignore the cars and focus on the SUVs and Trucks. With that in mind we made up the following list of EV companies to consider. BMW Cadillac Ford Genesis Hyundai Kia Mercedes Rivian Tesla A busy weekend ensued and the experiences of driving so many different EVs showed where some succeeded and others fell short. Clearly some are still holding onto ICE (internal combustion engine) legacy engineering approach and others delivered on what is called a clean sheet design. Here was our weekend experience with the following brands: BMW - iX was a nice drive, interface experience was fine, it actually had plenty of room in the front, a little tighter in the back but for short drives, another person my size could sit behind me and would be fine. Exterior is a styling love / hate experience. Wife is not a fan of the huge kidney bean grill; she said it looked like a pig nose on steroids. The side profile was fine, and the back end looked like it was pinched in molding the design. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, overall, it would still be considered. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Cadillac - Lyriq was the quietest drive of the day, Cadillac has nailed it, fast, solid and overall, a luxury EV ride. Interior over all was good, a little tight on head space with the sky roof, but the seat goes down far enough to adjust for that, interface of the dash was good. Android Auto / Apple Carplay is supported for the 2024 model year but is supposedly going away for the 2025 model year being replaced with the GM play store. Exterior styling my wife was fine with, better front end looks than the BMW. Would be on the consideration list. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Ford - Test drove an F150 Lighting and the Mach e, interior was fine, she liked the space and comfort. Was hoping for a midsize pickup truck, so ruled out the Lighting. Mach e she liked, both fit comfortably and clearly anyone could sit behind me my size and smaller. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Major dislike was the salesperson who was very pushy and made comments that told my wife he was a male chauvinistic pig. He actually told me to man up as the wife would drive whatever I decided since I was the man. Big mistake as we do everything in equal partnership, so his approach failed to work. Mach e is still in consideration, we will go with another salesperson, maybe even another dealership. Genesis - GV60 / GV70, exterior was fine, though the GV60 she did say reminded her of a jellybean. Interior was very luxurious, but no one could sit behind me in the GV60, would be fine for short trips in the GV70. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Interface was easy to use. She loved the interior but had reservations on the exterior but could not put her finger on it. GV70 would be in consideration. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Hyundai - Ioniq 5 SUV. She was not wowed by the exterior, felt it was sitting a bit low, bunker style, yet interior had plenty of room, Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Solid candidate to consider. Salesperson was nice, normal pushy attempts to have us make a decision, but as we told him, we still had others to test drive. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Kia - EV6 / EV9 - Exterior was not bad, was clearly different than many of the other EVs we had seen. EV6 is super tight inside for me, was fine for the wife as was the interface of their dashboard. No one could sit behind me. EV6 was out she said. EV9 was great, more room inside than our Escalade. Anyone could sit behind me, spacious for both of us and would transport anyone in comfort. Liked the exterior styling much more than many of the others we had test drove to date. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Salesperson super nice and not pushy. Solid candidate. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Mercedes - EQS, interior was nice, driving was the second quietest behind the Cadillac. Interface was fine, but lower menus seemed cluttered. We liked the interior for the most part, the hard part of this EV was the exterior lack of any real styling. The worst Jellybean style around. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, Salesperson was super nice and not pushy, but as we told him when we thanked him for his time, the auto needs an identity. Wife said for her daily driver, this was a hard pass. Rivian - R1T / R1S - Exterior was a win for the wife right up there with the EV9 from Kia. Interior was also a big win as it was spacious and comfortable front and back. Interface was easy to use, over all a nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Sadly, Rivian is off the list as she asked the counselor about Android Auto / Apple Carplay, no support, no plan to support it. Must buy your apps from the Rivian store, failure big time we felt. Bummer as Rivian was a leading candidate for us. Tesla - Due to friends who have Tesla, even with her knowing my dislike for the Tesla CEO, she wanted to check out the Y / X. Overall the experience in talking with their counselor was good, good people skills, they went over the interface with the wife, in the meantime she saw that while I could fit in the Y, no one could sit behind me. in the X I could also fit, but only about 2 inches of space from the back of the seat to the back seat. Wife asked about Android Auto and Apple Carplay, they told her no plans, they offered her a test drive and she passed. Told me it was a bit weird in how you used the single interface in the center of the dash and a few other things, minimalist failure to her. Pass on Tesla. Now that we had spent a long weekend driving so many EVs, I asked her what her thoughts were on what she was leaning towards. She told me give her a few weeks to digest the information and she would let me know. While the wife digested the EV overload of info, I moved onto researching the EV technology of these auto makers. Auto EV Platform Info 2024.pdf One key item is that I do not want to be behind the 8 ball of technology standards. In this case, I am talking about companies that are on 400V platforms versus 800V platforms. in this case, this brings us down to the following, Cadillac, Genesis, Hyundai and Kia as everyone else is on 400V platforms and already have announced that 2025 and 2026 model years will be the conversion to new 800V platforms. Knowing my wife, one does not rush her, when she is ready, she will let me know, weeks passed by and finally one day at breakfast, she said I have an answer for you. I like the Cadillac Lyriq and the Kia EV9 the best. I want heated seats, steering wheel and AWD, otherwise I could care less about other features. In looking on the websites for my local dealerships, the Cadillac dealership that I have bought from before was sold during the pandemic to Brotherton Cadillac of Renton. So Brotherton Cadillac NW is the dealership near me, and the wife and I reviewed all the Lyriqs and settled on the following:  Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic. This paint color is a color shifting paint that covers purple to silver / grey spectrum depending on the light of the day and especially as I discovered sun versus rain. In the sun it is a radiant purplish color and under dark raining weather a serious silver/dark grey.     Chuck Olson Kia which is less than a mile away from Brotherton Cadillac NW on HWY 99 here in the greater Seattle area had a nice assortment EV9s in Wind, Land and GT versions. They had the traditional blue GT and an Ice Green that the wife really liked. So I settled on the Ice Green to test drive and see what the final price would be. Again, like the Lyriq, the ICE Green metallic paint job has a dominant blueness but turns various shades of lite green to greenish blue depending on the light of the day. At this point we get to the nitty gritty of the dealing, Price paid, rebates, final pricing to determine what the deal ends up being. Over dinner, the wife and I discussed the options of buying versus leasing and to both of us, it made sense at this early stage to lease rather than buy an EV. The addition of the IRA $7,500 rebate also played into our decision. For Cadillac the Lyriq qualifies again for the full $7,500 rebate whether you buy or lease, in the case of the Kia, due to manufacturing in Korea, the EV9 only qualifies for the rebate if you lease. This fall, Kia and Hyundai start manufacturing in the US allowing their EVs to get the full $7,500 rebate if buying. For me, I wanted to see what a zero down Lease deal would be as a starting point before paying down. Depending on credit rating, most auto leases require anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000 down and of course the more you pay down, the lower your monthly payment is. The nature of my work allows me flexibility and as such, I was able to go on a Friday morning at 10am to the Brotherton Cadillac NW to test drive the Lyriq Sport 2 edition. In fact the EV is still on the lot now almost two weeks later. New 2024 Blue Cadillac 4dr Sport w/1SJ LYRIQ for Sale North of Seattle, VIN = 1GYKPVRL1RZ127387 (brothertoncadillacnw.com) Upon driving onto the lot, I parked and saw the Lyriq as it shinned in the morning sun giving that purplish glow that my wife liked. I walked up and checked it out externally and it looked great. After about 10 minutes of checking the Lyriq out, I was still not approached by anyone, so I went into the sales floor and asked if I could talk with someone about a Lyriq. First salesperson said I needed to talk to their EV specialist and walked away, a second person came out of a side hallway and asked if I was being taken care of and I told them what just happened, and I was still standing here. He did apologize and asked me to wait just a moment and he would get the specialist.  A young man came out, introduced himself and asked me if I had any special model in mind and if I wanted to take a test drive. I took him out to show him the one I was interested in. He took down their special code and left to get the keys. At this point, over all experience with the dealership was not bad, neutral for me as it is nothing personal, just business and some do it better than others. The sales rep returned with the keys, he opened up the Lyriq and took me on a tour of the auto pointing out many of the features and explaining the functional differences between how it works on the EV versus an ICE auto. This I have to say was very welcomed as it showed me the man had knowledge of the auto and could show / explain to me how it was to be used. I appreciate this as my wife is not a tech person but show her how to do it and she it set, so this was a good start. We did the traditional driver's license and insurance validation, signed on the dotted line and I then took off for a road trip in the Lyriq. Android auto works as expected, over all interface was easy to understand and use with a nice balance of common used items in physical form right under the screen. Steering wheel had all the expected buttons and dials for using the auto. The Noise canceling of the auto gave it a quiet ride that I have never experienced before and still to this day is the best yet of all the EVs I have test driven.  Negative of the Lyriq is that it is not a true SUV, you sit lower more car like and headroom while I would be fine, required me to drop the seat to the bottom of it's settings which makes my driving position even lower. Knowing that this is the wife's auto, I returned to the dealership to talk price. Here is where things started to go south and why people hate dealerships. I tried my best to negotiate in good faith for a fair price on the EV. The dealership replied that it was the hottest ride available and as such no discounts, you paid the price they had on the auto which was MSRP plus $5,000. I informed them that no I was not going to pay over MSRP for an auto that shows over 300 are available in the greater Seattle area.  The Dealership then said fine, they would sell it at MSRP to me. Knowing that I get $7,500 off I was not put off by this but also not happy that they would not go down on the price. I told them at this point I was interested in leasing and wanted to see what the lease rate would be for 15,000 miles a year for three years. Here is where it got ugly.  The sales rep came back to me and had a handwritten piece of paper with a TRD (Total after Rebates and Discounts) price, Lease money factor number, Residual price and monthly payment including tax. The monthly payment was a little over $1,200 a month. I asked to see firm numbers showing the selling price minus the IRA rebate, tax, etc. all lined up so that I can understand the numbers. I was informed this is how leases are done, your rebate is figured into the residual amount and that this is all the accurate info they provide the buyer. If I agree to this, they can then process and sell me the Lyriq. I told the man that this handwritten paper did not explain any of what I asked to verify and see, so they would need to properly print out or hand write all details in order for me to make a decision. The rep left and was gone for about 10 minutes and then came back with another salesperson who reminded me of a traditional wild west snake oil salesman who tried to use the same paper I was shown and yet tell me I was not able to understand the complexities of leases and should trust him on this awesome monthly cost. When I told him I would not accept that vague random info, he then moved into the terrible game of "What can you afford a month?" Here is where many people either give up and accept or leave as they feel overwhelmed, I on the other hand laughed and told him that I would not play his game. Show me the valid real numbers with a final price on the Lyriq before processing for the Lease monthly amount.  My wife always told me I was a very frustrating person when it came to buying an auto as I would push for facts and have on more than one occasion made salespeople cry when they could not get their way playing their monthly afford game. This is how people get ripped off and taken advantage of. The two folks left and came back with the sales manager who tried again with the paper to spin a different tale. At this point, I said fine, I would consider this as I needed to talk with the wife, and she would need to drive the auto anyway before we would buy.  Leaving the Cadillac dealership, I drove south to Chuck Olson Kia, figured I would see how the EV9 drove again and see what kind of deal I could get. Arriving at the dealership, I saw the EV9 I was interested in on the lot, looked it over and turned around to see if I can get some help and a young man greeted me and said he was with another customer, but would let another salesperson know I was looking at that EV9. Only a few minutes later, the sales rep came out, greeted me and had the keys so he opened up the EV and showed me the SUV.  Here the experience was similar in that we took the EV9 in Ice Green for a drive. As I drove it, I was informed about the various features and how they all worked. An overview that was enjoyable as I drove the near silent EV locally. I did notice that it was not as quiet as the Lyriq, but most would not really notice the difference, everything else on the road was far louder. We returned to the dealership and sat down; I asked the rep for the best price on this EV9 he could give me. He left to talk to his manager. Now I was comparing the price of the Lyriq Sport level 2 to this EV9 AWD Land edition and the MSRP price between the two was within a hundred dollars of each other. The EV9 had a number of features that the Lyriq did not have unless I paid substantially more and go to the top end Sport Level 3. At this point the Kia was winning on features giving it a better value due to the two being priced nearly the same. The sales rep came back to the table with a price that was $5,000 off MSRP. I felt based on internet searching that this was a fair price and felt it was good. I asked him then at this price with my IRA rebate of $7,500 what would a three-year lease with 15,000 miles a year cost me per month. The rep said give him a few minutes to have the manager put this in the system and he would come back with a detailed price for me. The salesperson returned about 10 minutes later with a Deal Sheet for me to review. Here is where the difference became clear between this Kia Dealership and the Cadillac Dealership. The Deal Sheet had all the numbers listed out clearly. Any person could walk through this in full understanding. The lease deal, started off with the Stock number for the EV9, had the MSRP listed, discount, then Selling price of the EV9. This was followed by a blank field for accessories or add on sales items as the sales rep explained. The rebate for $7,500 was clearly listed, blank space for Trade, cash cap reduction, license fee, doc fee ending in a final price of the EV that was then broken down by 36 months @ 15,000 miles a year for a Base monthly rental cost and then the sales tax on the whole deal which was broken down into monthly tax rate added to the monthly lease amount. Residual value at the end of the lease, a residual money factor that is a decimal number used to figure out the monthly lease rate. All in all, a very clear understandable deal and the monthly price for the EV9 was $837 per month compared to $1,200 plus for the Cadillac. I told the salesperson that I would need to talk to my wife when she got home tonight and would give him a call back. As I was getting ready to leave, I realized I had forgotten to ask an important question. Could the front driver and passenger windows be tinted to match the rest of the auto. Due to having had skin cancer, blocking out UV plus just having it darker is what I prefer. The sales rep said he believed so but would have to check with his manager and could call me if I gave him my number later. I left him my cell number and headed home. Sitting at home, I was thinking about the experience at the Cadillac dealership and wondering, can it really be that bad at any other dealership? So, I did a search and found the identical Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership and much farther away at Larson Cadillac of Fife. Off to Bellevue I went. Arriving at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership, I was promptly greeted and professionally questioned on the auto I was interested in. The young man was always polite and more than happy to help me. This dealership is one of the newly built from the ground up dealerships that truly echo's Luxury and what I would expect from a luxury dealership. Due to the knowledge of the salesperson like the other dealership, it started off positive, went out to check and see if the auto their website stated they had on hand was actually there. It was, Identical to the one at Brotherton Cadillac NW in Shoreline Washington. At this point, I gave him the same info I had given the other person to see what the pricing would be. Ten minutes later he returned with a printed sheet of paper, that was better than handwritten. Had a set sale price that was a couple thousand off the MSRP, had a rebate of $1,000 showing a reduced price, document fee, licensing and a theft engraving that he said they do on all autos sold there so nothing I could do about not wanting it. The total at the end showed a lease money factor, term, mileage and residual with a base payment of $1,042 dollars. with no money down.  Now two things I noticed, one was that the IRA rebate was not showing anywhere on the paperwork and the second item was that at least their price was over $200 less than the other dealership. I inquired about the $7,500 rebate and he said he did not know and would go ask. Upon returning he said it was factored into the residual value of the Lyriq when I traded it back in. I pointed out that the rebate does not go into a value of the vehicle but is paid to the dealership and so comes off the price of the auto. Things continued to go downhill from here as I was told by him that I did not understand how leasing worked. His sales manager stopped by, and I pointed this out, same response, I do not understand how leasing works. I informed them that I would need to present this to my wife and discuss it with her. They attempted the pressure response of get her on the phone, we can explain it and you can drive home in your new EV. They were not happy with me and would not let me have the paperwork. When they stepped out to talk, I snapped a quick picture of the printed paperwork. Two Cadillac dealerships, two different lease prices on the identically spec / priced Lyriq Sport 2 and no honest showing of where the rebate would end up at.  Heading home this made me wonder about Cadillac and their EV focus which we have since learned in the news has changed to having ICE and EV through 2030 and beyond. At home, I explained my day of EV shopping to the wife, she was disappointed that Cadillac was not forthcoming with their pricing. She liked the looks of the Lyriq as much as the looks of the Kia EV9. At this point the phone rang, and it was the sales rep for Kia. He informed me that yes, the doors could be tinted and that his sales manager if we were willing to move forward with the deal would throw in the front window tinting. We setup an appointment for Saturday morning to go and test drive the EV9 with the wife to ensure she would be happy driving it. For full details on our EV9 Purchase read this story: Now at this point, I figured I would relax for the evening, but I got another phone call from a sales rep at Larson Cadillac who informed me that the Lyriq I was interested was already sold at their dealership, but he could make me another deal on a like existing Lyriq, different color. I informed him that my wife liked the 800V Lyriq in the Celestial Metallic. The man on the other end of the phone said he could see if they could do a trade to get what we were interested in, but he wanted me to understand that the Lyriq was not a true 800V EV. I was surprised by his comment and asked him why it was not a true 800V EV. I learned and have verified that the only EV GM makes that truly can handle 350 kW fast charging is the Hummers, the Lyriq has an 800V electrical system, but the battery packs are first generation and as such only rated at 400V meaning they have a top charging speed of 150 kW. GM is planning to roll out 800V battery packs starting with the Chevrolet and GMC full size pickups. All other EVs will continue to use the 400V battery packs for now. At this point, I thanked the man for his time and would think on it and get back to him. As a person wanting to be current, this takes me to the Kia EV9 only. I did not say anything to my wife about the tech and hoped she would be happy with how it drove. Luckily that was a success the next day. I have spent half my life on the sales side and in training new sales folks there is a pretty basic 5 step process in sales: 1) Greet the customer inquiring what brought them in today 2) Qualify the person on what they want 3) Trial close to see if they are ready 4) Clarify questions and overcome concerns 5) Close the Sale. To accomplish this basic 5 steps, you first have to fully train the individual in what they are selling. Here Cadillac clearly is not or possibly the dealerships are not wanting to ensure everyone know how to sell an EV. Recap of this whole shopping experience is that Kia is nailing it with a professional sales experience, knowledgeable people on their products and a sales / lease process that is clear hiding nothing from allowing you to commit to buying or leasing a new auto. Cadillac on the other hand has left me with the feeling of snake oil salespersons at both dealerships with vague pricing, vague rebates and me wondering just how much they really want to earn my repeat business as I would love to replace my current Escalade with an Escalade IQ, but at this point, Genesis the luxury brand for Hyundai / Kia will reveal their Full Size GV90 ICE/Hybrid/Electric SUV summer of 2024 and I might just be replacing it with a Genesis. Any questions, ask away.   View full article
    • riviera74
      Random Thoughts Thread

      By riviera74 · Posted

      Rivian? Value? That's hilarious.🤣
    • G. David Felt
      Reader Rides: Our EV Editor Buys a Kia EV9

      By G. David Felt · Posted

      Let me put it this way, The amount of money I saved with the interior having more room inside than my current Escalade and the silent comfort, It is a win to me with not having to deal with any of the ICE maintenance or gas trips. My leasing / buying story should help enlighten you on why leasing an EV is a good thing right now. I am also putting in a Level 2 charger at the house that will be another story on the research, cost, etc. So you can follow up on that story too.
    • ccap41
      Permanent Car Spotters

      By ccap41 · Posted

      I stumbled upon a small meetup this weekend. There's a new custom/restoration shop about two blocks from my home and I was walking to a Casey's to grab a cake donut for my wife (hahaha) and this is right next to the Casey's.  This grey Chevelle was perfect, absolutely perfect. The plate is the name of the shop, Xtreme (restoration, bodywork, modification). I'm sure this is their show piece, and what a piece of work/art it is! I believe the van is theirs as well.  Later that day we ran to Aldi and came across the International Scout. it was far from mint condition, but it was "pretty good" but even cooler to see it just out and about. 
    • smk4565
      Reader Rides: Our EV Editor Buys a Kia EV9

      By smk4565 · Posted

      That's an exciting purchase, EV is tempting to me, but I still think all these current Gen EV's are too expensive compared to ICE cars.  If they can cut weight and cost 15% then I think the flood gates open on EV sales.

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