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More 'quiet' news about Enclave

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GM seeks quiet riot for Enclave

2008 crossover boasts soundproofing features in a bid to compete with Lexus, Mercedes-Benz.

Sharon Terlep / The Detroit News

Posted Image

MILFORD -- General Motors Corp. will employ an arsenal of soundproofing technology in hopes of making its upcoming Buick Enclave crossover one of the quietest rides on the road.

Buick officials said Thursday that the brand will face off with the likes of Lexus and Mercedes-Benz when the five-door luxury crossover debuts next year as a 2008 model. The Enclave will be built at GM's new $1 billion plant in Delta Township near Lansing.

GM hopes a sleek exterior, laminated steel and perforated leather seats that absorb sound will quiet critics and sell the Enclave to a younger, more affluent crowd. The features are the latest incarnation of Buick's QuietTuning technology, used in such models as the Lucerne and LaCrosse sedans.

"This technology is very powerful and very simple," Buick general manager Steve Shannon said Thursday at the GM Proving Grounds, where the Enclave underwent sound testing in high-tech wind tunnels and on low-tech bumpy roads. "This is basically a luxury car that just happens to seat seven or eight people."

A quiet ride is not a perk, but an expectation in the luxury market, and it's an area where Buick has fallen short in the past, said Brian Moody, road test editor for Edmunds.com. "People who are purchasing luxury vehicles expect a certain serenity or quietness with a vehicle," Moody said. "If they don't get that, it seems cheap."

GM has been on a mission to reincarnate Buick as an American version of Lexus, Toyota Motor Co.'s popular luxury line.

Buick, while still profitable, has continued to lose longtime customers. U.S. sales dropped 15 percent in the first 10 months of 2006 from the same period last year.

Among the Enclave's soundproofing features:

  • Acoustically laminated windshield glass that sandwiches a sound-absorbing glass panel between inner and outer panels.
  • Soundproofing foam in 28 places that expands to seal openings that could let noise in.
  • Tires with specially designed tread to avoid the noise associated with larger tires.
A team of engineers worked to ensure the Enclave absorbs sounds, reduces noise made by the vehicle and drowns out noise from the outside. One person's full-time job, for example, was to create the most pleasing sounds for functions such as shutting a door or rolling down a window, said Roger Barlow, a noise vibration team leader at Buick. "We're talking about excruciating detail," he said.

Edmund's Moody said the QuietTuning technology should help the Enclave compete when it goes on sale next summer, But it won't be enough to sell the vehicle in the crowded luxury market.

"There's more to a car," he said, "than making it sound quiet"

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Edmund's Moody said the QuietTuning technology should help the Enclave compete when it goes on sale next summer, But it won't be enough to sell the vehicle in the crowded luxury market.

"There's more to a car," he said, "than making it sound quiet"

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Real surprising that a guy from Edmunds decides to pretend that Buick is solely focusing on the vehicle being quiet. The fact that the concept dropped jaws from some of Buick's biggest critics, even on this forum, sort of proves that Buick isn't just focusing on sound-proofing. Do the people at all major automotive magazines and websites get paid to constantly put down Buick? Or is there a rule that you have to be a die-hard fan of foreign makes to join?

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The damn thing is so freaking HOT! I want one, and I hate SUVs/CSVs/ATVs/FBIs/CIAs, etc.

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Real surprising that a guy from Edmunds decides to pretend that Buick is solely focusing on the vehicle being quiet. The fact that the concept dropped jaws from some of Buick's biggest critics, even on this forum, sort of proves that Buick isn't just focusing on sound-proofing. Do the people at all major automotive magazines and websites get paid to constantly put down Buick? Or is there a rule that you have to be a die-hard fan of foreign makes to join?

215816[/snapback]

The tongues and hands of the Edmunds people should be severed. (Oh wait did I say that out loud?)

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A team of engineers worked to ensure the Enclave absorbs sounds, reduces noise made by the vehicle and drowns out noise from the outside. One person's full-time job, for example, was to create the most pleasing sounds for functions such as shutting a door or rolling down a window, said Roger Barlow, a noise vibration team leader at Buick. "We're talking about excruciating detail," he said.

Now THAT is the kind of thing that impresses me, but has been the norm for many imports for a long time--glad they're continuing the effort and making each new vehicle even more incredible than the last, in terms of refinement and detail.

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"Acoustically laminated windshield glass that sandwiches a sound-absorbing glass panel between inner and outer panels."

How doing that to every window of the car?

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I imagine that all the emphasis on quality that GM is about these days is taking some of the starch out of Toyota's pants.

I think everyone is going to have to rethink common claims that

a.) American cars are no good

and

b.) Toyota will overtake GM as #1 automaker

I can't wait for these products, but what I really can't wait for is when those pompous morons who've told the world for years that American cars suck have to eat their words.

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I imagine that all the emphasis on quality that GM is about these days is taking some of the starch out of Toyota's pants.

I think everyone is going to have to rethink common claims that

a.) American cars are no good

and

b.) Toyota will overtake GM as #1 automaker

I can't wait for these products, but what I really can't wait for is when those pompous morons who've told the world for years that American cars suck have to eat their words.

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Well yeah, and some dumb ratings aside, go compare even the overall feel and look of a Lucerne vs. an Avalon, an Aura vs. a Camry, etc., and some of the difference is already crystal clear. A lot of GM's still aren't at the level they could be, but anymore a lot of vaunted Toyotas just come off as more cheap than anything.

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"Acoustically laminated windshield glass that sandwiches a sound-absorbing glass panel between inner and outer panels."

How doing that to every window of the car?

Can't: windshields are laminated to keep them relatively visually clear upon impact (so the driver can still see where he's going)- side & rear glass is tempered: heat-treated to break into those little cubes- safer than laminated but obviously you would not be able to see thru a crazed tempered windshield if something hit you when still moving. No way to add lamination to tempered glass as far as I know.

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Can't: windshields are laminated to keep them relatively visually clear upon impact (so the driver can still see where he's going)- side & rear glass is tempered: heat-treated to break into those little cubes- safer than laminated but obviously you would not be able to see thru a crazed tempered windshield if something hit you when still moving. No way to add lamination to tempered glass as far as I know.

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Don't they just double the thickness of the side windows to create a quieter environment? I know they do that on MB... I thought they did that on the front windows of the Lucerne if I'm not mistaken...

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Can't: windshields are laminated to keep them relatively visually clear upon impact (so the driver can still see where he's going)- side & rear glass is tempered: heat-treated to break into those little cubes- safer than laminated but obviously you would not be able to see thru a crazed tempered windshield if something hit you when still moving. No way to add lamination to tempered glass as far as I know.

216835[/snapback]

HUH - Do you have a clue about what you just said?

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The more I look at the Enclave the more I want it. My lease on my current wheels is up next Fall, so this will be my next vehicle. It just makes every other comparable vehicle look pathetic style-wise.

And I agree, it seems folks in the media are grasping at straws re: GM and Buick, in particular. This car is simply gorgeous. Who else could have designed such a vehicle? It simply harkens back to Buicks from the 50s and early 60s, especially the Skylark. I find the fender curves and body look very reminiscent of those cars -- more so when I saw one go by me the other day.

Before anyone says I'm a geezer, I'm mid-40s and never thought I'd buy a Buick but I'll be buying this one.

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The more I look at the Enclave the more I want it. My lease on my current wheels is up next Fall, so this will be my next vehicle. It just makes every other comparable vehicle look pathetic style-wise.

And I agree, it seems folks in the media are grasping at straws re: GM and Buick, in particular. This car is simply gorgeous. Who else could have designed such a vehicle? It simply harkens back to Buicks from the 50s and early 60s, especially the Skylark. I find the fender curves and body look very reminiscent of those cars -- more so when I saw one go by me the other day.

Before anyone says I'm a geezer, I'm mid-40s and never thought I'd buy a Buick but I'll be buying this one.

216863[/snapback]

I would not accuse you of being a geezer for liking the Enclave, it's one of the best GM products in years.

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HUH - Do you have a clue about what you just said?

{ragged sigh}Windshields are laminated, side glass is tempered...FOR THE MOST PART. A niche-volume manufacturer offers laminated side glass and everything I posted is flat wrong, eh?

Tho there are pros & cons for each type, but I would not want laminated glass splintering into jagged spikes right next to my face! You can pick up a handful of broken tempered glass & roll it in your hand without injury.

Both types have been judged legally liable in accidents, BTW.

Edited by balthazar

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HUH - Do you have a clue about what you just said?

{ragged sigh}Windshields are laminated, side glass is tempered...FOR THE MOST PART. A niche-volume manufacturer offers laminated side glass and everything I posted is flat wrong, eh?

Tho there are pros & cons for each type, but I would not want laminated glass splintering into jagged spikes right next to my face! You can pick up a handful of broken tempered glass & roll it in your hand without injury.

Both types have been judged legally liable in accidents, BTW.

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Let me refresh your memory and what you said.

"Can't: windshields are laminated to keep them relatively visually clear upon impact (so the driver can still see where he's going)- side & rear glass is tempered: heat-treated to break into those little cubes- safer than laminated but obviously you would not be able to see thru a crazed tempered windshield if something hit you when still moving. "

Reasons you site are untrue.

Please go on and tell me all the pros and cons. Enlighten all of us since you seem to know what you are talking about.

Edited by evok

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Let me refresh your memory of what I said:

...windshields are laminated to keep them relatively visually clear upon impact... side & rear glass is tempered... safer than laminated but obviously you would not be able to see thru a crazed tempered windshield if something hit you when still moving.

U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard #205:

Glazing Materials - This standard specifies requirements for glazing materials for use in motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment for the purpose of reducing injuries resulting from impact to glazing surfaces. The purpose of this standard is to ensure a necessary degree of transparency in motor vehicle windows for driver visibility, and to minimize the possibility of occupants being thrown through the vehicle windows in collisions.

Tempered glass:

Fully tempered glass is used in many applications because of its safety characteristics. Safety comes from strength and from a unique fracture pattern. Strength, which effectively resists wind pressure and impact, provides safety in many applications. When fully tempered glass breaks the glass fractures into small, relatively harmless fragments. This phenomenon called "dicing," markedly reduces the likelihood of injury to people as there are no jagged edges or sharp shards.

Fully tempered glass is a safety glazing material when manufactured to meet the requirements of the ANSI Z97.1 Standard and Federal Standard CPSC 16 CFR 1201. Federal Standard CPSC 16 CFR 1201, as well as state and local codes, require safety glazing material where the glazing might reasonably be exposed to human impact.

The reasons I cited are true.

This is not me talking, just me repeating the general NHTSA, DOT, ANSI and SAE standards.

Take it up with them, since they seem to know what they're talking about.

Edited by balthazar

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Let me refresh your memory of what I said:

U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard #205:

Tempered glass:

The reasons I cited are true.

This is not me talking, just me repeating the general NHTSA, DOT, ANSI and SAE standards.

Take it up with them, since they seem to know what they're talking about.

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Taken out of context... you are full of it and mislead. Read some more recent research.

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§ 571.205 Standard No. 205, Glazing

materials.

S1. Scope. This standard specifies requirements

for glazing materials for

use in motor vehicles and motor vehicle

equipment.

S2. Purpose. The purpose of this

standard is to reduce injuries resulting

from impact to glazing surfaces, to ensure

a necessary degree of transparency

in motor vehicle windows for

driver visibility, and to minimize the

possibility of occupants being thrown

through the vehicle windows in collisions.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09...9cfr571.205.pdf

The Reg Text. Again you lie, mislead or do not understand.

Edited by evok

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And the award to the most petty and meaningless disagreement on C&G goes to...

Edited by Cananopie

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evok- wow. We posted the same FMVSS and you're completely right and I'm lying, misleading and/or misunderstanding. "Again". I suppose you know my reasons for purposely lying to others here about a random safety standard, too. Dammnit; I'll have to be much more careful in the future with sharp sticks like yourself on the case, or my Master Plan will be thwarted.

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And the award to the most petty and meaningless disagreement on C&G goes to...

217152[/snapback]

I agree.

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evok- wow. We posted the same FMVSS and you're completely right and I'm lying, misleading and/or misunderstanding. "Again". I suppose you know my reasons for purposely lying to others here about a random safety standard, too. Dammnit; I'll have to be much more careful in the future with sharp sticks like yourself on the case, or my Master Plan will be thwarted.

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No: I posted the purpose from the Standard. What I assume you posted and I do not feel like digging through the Federal Register to verify, may, be from the Preamble to a vintage FMVSS No. 205 publication. But the Preamble is not regulatory.

Your original post that I replied to was just silly. Your subsequent replies were just deflecting your original statements.

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