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Senator to Automakers - "You lose" CAFE argument

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Detroit 3 hear they've already 'lost' on CAFE
Harry Stoffer
Automotive News
June 6, 2007 - 3:42 pm
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WASHINGTON -- Automakers that oppose higher fuel economy standards won't block congressional action this year, a Senate Democrat who switched positions on the issue warned today.

"The issue is over," Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., told the CEOs of the Detroit 3. "You have lost the issue."

Dorgan's remark came at the end of what was supposed to have been a feel-good session on manufacturing issues by Senate Democrats.

Dorgan represents one of 11 states where the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers is running ads that assail "extreme" fuel economy legislation before the Senate. The alliance represents the Detroit 3, Toyota and five other automakers.

Scare tactics such as telling Americans that Congress is going to take away their pickups won't work anymore, Dorgan admonished the executives.

At a lunch meeting, the Detroit 3 CEOs stuck by their position that the corporate average fuel economy program, or CAFE, is a failure. Higher standards alone are not the answer to concerns about energy security or global warming, they said.

Afterward, in a brief session with reporters, General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner said automakers understand that fuel economy standards are going to rise.

The Detroit 3 say they seek to ensure that higher standards are part of a broader package of actions that promote alternative fuels and provide incentives for advanced technology vehicles.

Behind the scenes, industry lobbyists are meeting with lawmakers on possible alternatives to the CAFE bill, which is scheduled for debate on the Senate floor next week.

Two alternative proposals would require cars to average 36 mpg by 2022 and trucks to average 30 mpg by 2025. Regulators would be able to set lower standards if the targets were deemed to be unreachable.

Today's standards are 27.5 mpg for cars and 22.2 mpg for light trucks.

The bill before the Senate floor would require a fleetwide average of 35 mpg by 2020 and 4percent annual increases thereafter. Again, regulators would be able to cite economic or technological reasons to set lower standards.

Environmental and consumer groups contend that guaranteed standards are needed. They are lobbying to toughen the Senate bill.
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for the north American manufacturing industry, I hope they drop the domestic/import classifications

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What about my lawnmower which pollutes more on one gallon of gasoline than a Ford Focus does with 20? How about addressing that issue?

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Higher standards alone are not the answer to concerns about energy security or global warming, they said.

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What about my lawnmower which pollutes more on one gallon of gasoline than a Ford Focus does with 20? How about addressing that issue?

or the fact that mowing your grass releases more VOC's that are potentially more harmful than that gallon of gas's emissions you used to mow it...... we all should have buffalo eating our grass to keep it low....then kill them for meat instead of cows. :lol:
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or the fact that mowing your grass releases more VOC's that are potentially more harmful than that gallon of gas's emissions you used to mow it...... we all should have buffalo eating our grass to keep it low....then kill them for meat instead of cows. :lol:

Except then you'd have a problem with the methane in the bovine (buffalo's are bovines) flatulence.

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What about my lawnmower which pollutes more on one gallon of gasoline than a Ford Focus does with 20? How about addressing that issue?

There are tier II emission standards for lawnmowers, hedge trimmers etc., and higher CA standards.
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Except then you'd have a problem with the methane in the bovine (buffalo's are bovines) flatulence.

Methane production in ruminants is dependent on stomach bacteria. More efficient bacteria produce do not produce methane, and give higher grass-food conversion rates. Domestic sheep and cattle produce methane, but at least some wild ruminants do not. Whether the better bacteria can be introduced (say during suckling) is still being researched, just as debate still rages over the efficacy of "probiotic" supplements in the human diet.
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Congress and consumer groups want to force manufacturers to make everything super-efficient, automakers want tax incentives for people to actually buy the smaller cars required to meet the standard.

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The American gov't sure seems to have it in for their automobile manufacturers.

I think they actually want them to go under. The new mpg standards will

have profound effects...Chrysler will be the first to go out of business.

I guess the Detroit haters are finally starting to win the battle.

We will be left with fewer cars to choose from and

costing much, much more.

Are Americans increasingly

becoming

self-loathing?

It appears

that way.

I don't get it.

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>>"Detroit 3 hear they've already 'lost' on CAFE"<<

>>"The alliance represents the Detroit 3, Toyota and five other automakers."<<

I don't get the headline.

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The American gov't sure seems to have it in for their automobile manufacturers.

I think they actually want them to go under.

Of course they do... They've wanted rusty old Detroit gone for years now. After all, the Lexus and Acura driving sellouts have no use for Detroit, or their patrons that no longer control the $$$ that the politicians desire.

The new mpg standards will

have profound effects...Chrysler will be the first to go out of business.

I guess the Detroit haters are finally starting to win the battle.

They've been winning since 2001 when the media *somehow miraculously all at once* decided to destroy Detroit and started printing propaganda overnight by the barrels (Hmmm, wonder how that happened?)
We will be left with fewer cars to choose from

WE do not matter... As long as the politicians are paid and can do/drive whatever they want (Most of them aren't car people anyway and don't care about the industry in the first place) then who cares? It's just like all of the hypocrits in Hollywood... They make their documentaries that tell us to conserve and be ashamed for driving SUVs, then they hop aboard their personal jet and fly to their 2500 square foot mansion to bask in the spoils of life.

costing much, much more.
Which will be funny, since that will probably result in more and more americans driving older cars and trying to keep them running, which will probably result in even more polution after all is said and done.
Are Americans increasingly

becoming

self-loathing?

It appears

that way.

I don't get it.

Not all americans.... Just the americans who make the decisions for the rest of us. All they know how to do is criticize their own and bend over for everyone else in the world.

I don't get the headline.

Simple bias... I could tell that by the author using the term "Detroit 3"

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Never Trust "The Man"

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I this is going to hurt Toyota too. I guess we all will be driving Volts!

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, automakers want tax incentives for people to actually buy the smaller cars required to meet the standard.

I'd trade my tax incentive for an insurance premium incentive. :pbjtime:

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If you think CAFE is too draconian, consider Iran's governmental actions. Although they have plenty oil reserves, they have too little refinery capacity. In order to to put a lid on increased refined oil importation, the government is raising prices sharply and instituting a rationing system. As many as 50 gas stations have been reported burned by protesters.

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If you think CAFE is too draconian, consider Iran's governmental actions. Although they have plenty oil reserves, they have too little refinery capacity. In order to to put a lid on increased refined oil importation, the government is raising prices sharply and instituting a rationing system. As many as 50 gas stations have been reported burned by protesters.

yeah, i heard about that on npr. it still shows what can happen when government limits business opportunities in a huge market.
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The American gov't sure seems to have it in for their automobile manufacturers. I think they actually want them to go under.

It's been that way, more or less, since they had to bail Chrysler out and didn't get anything out of the deal. They became more and more anti-Detroit as the decades pressed on, and since Bush came into office and boosted oil prices to unwarranted highs.

The new mpg standards will have profound effects...Chrysler will be the first to go out of business.

And I bet they'll just cheer and cheer when Chrysler goes out. Like I said, they didn't get their money's worth when they bailed them out, so they have them marked for death. I can just see that day ... Republicans and Democrats will stand up in Congress, hold hands, and sing Christmas tunes while our economy starts to take a turn for the worse and foreign countries start showing up to screw each and every one of them (and essentially us) in the ass. Then the US will be up on the auction block, broken up, and sold to the highest bidder, like a modern day Holy Roman Empire. Gotta love that good old American apathy!

I guess the Detroit haters are finally starting to win the battle. We will be left with fewer cars to choose from and costing much, much more.

I think that's what these suits in D.C. want: one or two cars to be sold by them, that are essentially the boxes the Camry came in with all of the Gov't. controlled "safety devices," and to cost the price of a thirty-year home loan. It's more money to bail us out of the debt we racked up in Iraq, after all.

Are Americans increasingly becoming self-loathing? It appears that way. I don't get it.

I think Americans have been this apathetic and self-guilt-ridden since WWII and Hiroshima. We did a horrible thing, sure, but I do think Japan got what they deserved at the time. They bombed us, thinking we wouldn't strike back, wanting to strike fear into us. They should have left us alone -- up until that point we weren't that involved in the war -- and we wouldn't have felt the need to compensate for those events because we didn't do one damn thing to them.

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