FUTURE_OF_GM

TYPICAL EXAMPLES of Asia Inc BAD business

20 posts in this topic

From Auto Extremist

Example # 1:

The Hybrid Debate. We appreciate Dan Neil mentioning us in his Los Angeles Times column this week - "For the Civic-minded" - but we're afraid we're being lumped in to a position that isn't quite accurate. Mainstream journalists continue to miss the point we've been making (and our Autoextremist Research substantiates) about hybrids. Hybrid technology is fine and noble - as long as you know what you're getting. But most consumers don't know, or really understand what they're getting into with hybrids - and that's the problem. And manufacturers like Toyota, for instance, continue to exploit the public's ignorance every chance they get. We don't disagree with Dan that for some people (Dan included) there is a huge feel-good factor with owning a hybrid. And we're happy for them. But we will continue talking about the "down the road" costs associated with hybrids that people refuse to acknowledge: The staggering system replacement costs, the battery replacement costs (and the environmental disposal issues), the fact that used hybrid buyers will be forced to buy expensive aftermarket warranties in order to protect themselves and finally, the fact that all of this will have a huge impact on residual values. We view hybrids as a transitional technology only, just one step in the journey to an eventual hydrogen future. For many consumers, simply making a more rational choice in their vehicle selection based on a realistic appraisal of their driving needs would mean tremendous savings in gasoline usage - and money. And it would have a hugely positive impact on our nation's energy usage numbers. The fact of the matter is that people don't need a hybrid to achieve those kinds of savings - but as long as the uninformed continue to portray hybrids as the "magic bullet" we've all been waiting for, people will continue to be misled.


Example # 2:

Nissan. Other than when Peter generates a slew of email messages with one of his columns, nothing has stirred our up readers more of late than the new commercial for Nissan's Titan full-size truck. Assembling a bunch of Titans to show how the truck thrives in towing, working and recreation situations, and then driving them in a line down the highway sounds fairly innocuous, no? Except for the fact that the music they use is the theme song from the movie "The Bridge over the River Kwai." One long time reader didn't hold back his thoughts: "WOW! What a set these guys have. To advertise Japanese made vehicles to the theme song from a movie about the endurance of Westerners of unbelievable brutality by their Japanese military captors boggles the mind! Is everyone associated with this ad tone deaf or are these guys so confident they can blatantly 'in your face' the American public and we'll whistle along?" Or another reader: "Is it only me, or does this seem a bit much? Not all Americans are whiz-bang foreign product of the month buying sheep, and I don't think all of us have forgotten history either. Or maybe, being so long ago, it doesn't really matter anymore?" No, it definitely matters - and it pisses us off to no end too. This is an example of ad agency creatives run amuck - while aided and abetted by obviously clueless clients who should know better. The commercial is an insult, pure and simple. We thought the Nissan "Shift" advertising theme line was silly and stupid before. Now, if they'd just pull the "f" from the word, it would describe what we think of this commercial perfectly. Editor's Note: We have been informed by Nissan PR that this spot is now running with a different music track. We applaud this move, and we also applaud the swift action taken. -JJP


It's simply arrogance and ill will. They know Americans are either too dumb or don't care enough to notice and I think they get a laugh out of doing things like this...

THIS is why I hate the asian companies so much. They come here, destroy our industry and subsequently hundreds of years of history and identity (with the help of the minions they've recruited in this country) and thinks it's all a big joke because "they own us" It's all about attitude and it's been going down this way for years, yet apparently everyone is too blind to see it.
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sales figures from this month getting some bitter sentiments they dont say this crap when domestic sales are up 20%
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sales figures from this month getting some bitter sentiments

they dont say this crap when domestic sales are up 20%

[post="28583"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Not sure if you're reffering to me, but I rant about the asians 24 hours a day 7 days a week most of the time. It even 'gets old' to the most die hard GM enthusiasts.
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Not sure if you're reffering to me, but I rant about the asians 24 hours a day 7 days a week most of the time. It even 'gets old' to the most die hard GM enthusiasts.

[post="28586"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


no, not you - the little dweeb that wrote that article; its not journalistic to get all huffy puffy - regardless of if your for or against whatever Edited by swallowit
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Is it me or does AutoExtremist seem to hate everything? :huh:

Anyway...

#1:

You can't exactly blame Toyota for the way the general public views hybrids. Do you honestly expect any company to step forward and say, "Hey, slow down folks. Our hybrids aren't all that you think they are." Of course not! They are going to do their damnedest to capitalize on it. If people don't take the time to fully research something before they jump into it, that's on them.

#2:

It's just a song from a movie. As I undestand it, the song itself doesn't even have anything to do with "the endurance of Westerners of unbelievable brutality by their Japanese military captors". The commercial's not even in any kind of military/war theme. Some people read too much into things.
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I really could care less about what song they use on a commercial. As long as it's not annoying.
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Well, considering Nissan was formed in the 1930s by the Japanese military to build military vehicles in Manchuria using slave labor, the song is probably appropriate. I am just surprised that Nissan would want to remind us of their glorious past.
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#2:

It's just a song from a movie. As I undestand it, the song itself doesn't even have anything to do with "the endurance of Westerners of unbelievable brutality by their Japanese military captors". The commercial's not even in any kind of military/war theme. Some people read too much into things.

[post="28598"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


You're telling me no one in the advertising agency though that using "Colonel Bogey March" made even more famous from The Bridge On the River Kwai to advertise a Japanese car company was even slightly ironic?

I personally don't find it offensive, but laugh and think, "Wow. Are you for real?" in the same way I thought a few years ago when my TV blared "MITSUBISHI ZERO! ZERO! ZERO! EVENT!"

That's two now. I'm just waiting for an xTerra commerical that talks about climbing Mount Nitaka. Then, I'll have my triumverate of inappropriate Japanese ad campaigns and I can laugh to myself.
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Well, considering Nissan was formed in the 1930s by the Japanese military to build military vehicles in Manchuria using slave labor, the song is probably appropriate.


Nissan was renamed from Datsun in 1934 but it wasn't formed by the Japanese government nor was it formed to build military vehicles (as in it wasn't the original intent).

You're telling me no one in the advertising agency though that using "Colonel Bogey March" made even more famous from The Bridge On the River Kwai to advertise a Japanese car company was even slightly ironic?

I personally don't find it offensive, but laugh and think, "Wow. Are you for real?" in the same way I thought a few years ago when my TV blared "MITSUBISHI ZERO! ZERO! ZERO! EVENT!"


Hell, for all I know, they probably didn't even know what the song meant or was associated with.

I just don't think it's worth getting worked up over a song that's associated with war that happened quite a while ago.
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How come when one asian manufacturer does something stupid like Nissan with their dumb commercials or Toyota with their overly-hyped hybrids, automatically every Asian manufacturer is out to kill us Americans? As far as I'm concerned, Japan's big 3 (Toyota, Honda, and Nissan) are just as different from each other as America's big 3, specially in how they do business and their goals.

And as far as hybrids go. Maintenance costs are mostly overrated. Take a look at this Edmunds article, and scroll down to maintenance (give the rest a read too). The hybrid components are meant to last for as long as the vehicle. Most owners shouldn't have to spend an extra dime for hybrid related (battery, electric motor, etc) costs for at least 100,000 miles. I understand though that some outfits may charge extra to work on a hybrid just because it's a hybrid and supposedly more complicated (even for simple tasks like Oil Changes and valve lash adjustments). But that is of course their price gouging and taking advantage of consumer's stupidity.

Take for example Honda's insight, 60mpg city 68mpg hwy (64 avg), and compare it to 30mpg city 40mpg hwy (35 avg) for a typical economy car. If you do 100,000 miles in both of the cars, with an average of $2.50 per gallon of gas, you will have spent $7,142.50 with the economy car, and $3,905.00 with the hybrid. That's $3237.50 in savings from gas over the course of 100,000 miles. Some people will do 100,000 miles in 5-6 years, depending on how much they drive. Is that worth buying a hybrid? In my opinion yes, specially since you are going to be producing less emissions at the same time.
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And as far as hybrids go. Maintenance costs are mostly overrated. Take a look at this Edmunds article, and scroll down to maintenance (give the rest a read too). The hybrid components are meant to last for as long as the vehicle. Most owners shouldn't have to spend an extra dime for hybrid related (battery, electric motor, etc) costs for at least 100,000 miles. I understand though that some outfits may charge extra to work on a hybrid just because it's a hybrid and supposedly more complicated (even for simple tasks like Oil Changes and valve lash adjustments). But that is of course their price gouging and taking advantage of consumer's stupidity.


Sorry but thats an Edmunds article which really just rehashes the manufacturers PR piece...and this isn't just Toyota...its Ford and Honda too. While economies of scale will eventually cause the price of replacement batteries to go down, I'll wait until there are some high mileage Prius' on the road before we can start talking about maintenance costs. I imagine the resale of these will drop considerably after 100K miles.

Take for example Honda's insight, 60mpg city 68mpg hwy (64 avg), and compare it to 30mpg city 40mpg hwy (35 avg) for a typical economy car. If you do 100,000 miles in both of the cars, with an average of $2.50 per gallon of gas, you will have spent $7,142.50 with the economy car, and $3,905.00 with the hybrid. That's $3237.50 in savings from gas over the course of 100,000 miles. Some people will do 100,000 miles in 5-6 years, depending on how much they drive. Is that worth buying a hybrid? In my opinion yes, specially since you are going to be producing less emissions at the same time.


The insight is far from a "normal economy car" It's a very small, very cramped 2 person vehicle designed specifically for fuel economy. The only 2 relevant ones are the civic and prius and at roughly 45 MPG (rough average of real world tests not EPA test)...versus a normal economy car, you are looking at at least a decade before any real cost savings.
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J30, Nissan was formed by the military, financed by military banks and set up in Manchuria when Japan invaded that area. I covered this in a thread on the old C&G; however, I will look up the source material and get back to ya. that is why Nissan was named Datsun here for years - because American GIs wouldn't have bought the vehicles in the '60s.
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Not sure if you're reffering to me, but I rant about the asians 24 hours a day 7 days a week most of the time. It even 'gets old' to the most die hard GM enthusiasts.

[post="28586"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I've never complained. You don't bother me, as a matter of fact I hold much of the same beliefs, though you make a more informed and inteligent argument.

I too am really bothered by this Americanization of Toyota and Honda... it's like "Look at us Darryl Waltrip races a Tacoma, we're as American as Apple Pie and baseball..."

I'm sitting there like "F*** you, perhaps we should have condescending ads on Japanee TV for Buick & Cadillac about how 'Suzuki Toyota Hiroshima' is driftig with a CTS-V now so that makes us a JAPANESE company..."

The Japanese are in a Pacifistic culture right now, all about peace and yet they wage an economic war or huge proportions and are kicking our asses every day. The sad part is that 65% of our own countrymen are on the wrong side.

This is why, as much as I like some Japanese cars (Nissan/Infiniti, Mazda, Subaru) I'll never buy one new. There's plenty of yuppies in the burbs that will take the hit on resale and buy one new only to trade it in a year later. Heck wiht the crazy residuals and 12/24 month leases it seems perfectly logical to them... Yet another unfair advantage. <_<
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And as far as hybrids go. Maintenance costs are mostly overrated.

[post="28929"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I have a bridge to sell you in NYC... http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif :rolleyes:


Take for example Honda's insight, 60mpg city 68mpg hwy (64 avg), and compare it to 30mpg city 40mpg hwy (35 avg) for a typical economy car. If you do 100,000 miles in both of the cars, with an average of $2.50 per gallon of gas, you will have spent $7,142.50 with the economy car, and $3,905.00 with the hybrid. That's $3237.50 in savings from gas over the course of 100,000 miles. Some people will do 100,000 miles in 5-6 years, depending on how much they drive. Is that worth buying a hybrid? In my opinion yes, specially since you are going to be producing less emissions at the same time.


First of all nobody gets 64mpg in a Insight. You should knoiw beter than to assume such bullshit. The real world fule economy of the insight, Civic Hybrid & Prius are all overrated. BUt even if it did, I'd rather have a 3.4 liter Impala for the same about of money... enjoy the "luxury" of a back seat (and a big one) ride in a safer vehicle wiht far greater comfort and a huge trunk, no need to replace a timing belt, and spend $4500 more on gas... (the Impala gets 30 highway) Big deal so I spent $4500 extra, it's worth it.

Over the course of like 8.3 years (average miles being 12K a year) that actaully only comes out ot be less than $600 a year.

Wait, I forgot to mention *this is the clincher* you're going to have to spend the $4500 in savings on your replacement battery pack in your now used up Hybrid, if you haev not already.

Now who's the fool. :lol:
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i wonder what the life cycle cost is of being killed in a side impact crash in a cracker box hybrid or having battery guts eat your skin versus being in a decent sized car with some crash protection.
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i'm a big fan of competition. Otherwise GM would still be building cars to last 3 years like they did in the 70's.
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First of all nobody gets 64mpg in a Insight. You should knoiw beter than to assume such bullshit. The real world fule economy of the insight, Civic Hybrid & Prius are all overrated. no need to replace a timing belt, and spend $4500 more on gas... (the Impala gets 30 highway) Big deal so I spent $4500 extra, it's worth it.

[post="29221"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I wasn't quoting Honda's advertised MPG (now that I look at their site, looks like they don't even quote it that high). The insight does get good MPG in real world situations. Have a look at this article (102mpg on a non stop run around UK, including time spent in traffic and in-city). I was also comparing it to say, another 2 door small economy car. Obviously that size car isn't for everyone, so comparing it to a full size or mid size sedan is mute. Have you ever sat in an Insight or driven one? They may not be as unconfortable as you think (for 2 people only of course).

Aside from mileage, the insight will put out about a 1/3 the emissions your impala will over the course of their lives, maybe even less depending on driving style.

No need to replace timing belt on the Honda til 100k, not that it costs much anyway. The battery is warrantied for 8 years on the Insight, the assembly is replaceable as a single unit, which is estimated to be around $1226.75 USD (that includes the battery cells, along with temperature/current/voltage sensors and other components like the junction board) - source.
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I wasn't quoting Honda's advertised MPG (now that I look at their site, looks like they don't even quote it that high). The insight does get good MPG in real world situations. Have a look at this article (102mpg on a non stop run around UK, including time spent in traffic and in-city).  I was also comparing it to say, another 2 door small economy car. Obviously that size car isn't for everyone, so comparing it to a full size or mid size sedan is mute. Have you ever sat in an Insight or driven one? They may not be as unconfortable as you think (for 2 people only of course).

[post="29363"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Thats UK gallons.

based on my rough calculations (which may very well be wrong)
it gets about... 85 mpg...

but i still havent heard people getting that so i dont know what they were doing over there.

Plus emissions in general are pretty low- and certainly not what most people think of when purchasing a car. Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!
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I wasn't quoting Honda's advertised MPG (now that I look at their site, looks like they don't even quote it that high). The insight does get good MPG in real world situations. Have a look at this article (102mpg on a non stop run around UK, including time spent in traffic and in-city).  I was also comparing it to say, another 2 door small economy car. Obviously that size car isn't for everyone, so comparing it to a full size or mid size sedan is mute. Have you ever sat in an Insight or driven one? They may not be as unconfortable as you think (for 2 people only of course).

Aside from mileage, the insight will put out about a 1/3 the emissions your impala will over the course of their lives, maybe even less depending on driving style.

No need to replace timing belt on the Honda til 100k, not that it costs much anyway. The battery is warrantied for 8 years on the Insight, the assembly is replaceable as a single unit, which is estimated to be around $1226.75 USD (that includes the battery cells, along with temperature/current/voltage sensors and other components like the junction board) - source.

[post="29363"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


that insight is great until you get creamed by someone in a Ford Focus...........
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