Pontiac Grand Prix Questions...

[A Horse With No Name]

I would like to know about the performance variants of the Grand Prix...sat down next to an old man at the local Waffle House eating breakfast the other day, and we started talking cars. Turned out he was a lifelong Pontiac guy, and his favourite car had been a 71 Grand Prix with of all things a solid lifter version of the Pontiac 400.

Anyone here know how rare that car was? (he sold it in 83, so I'd venture to guess its sadly no longer around)Any other specs on the 69-72 Grand Prix models that were performance oriented?

The old guys former GP was cool...bright yellow with a green interior and a green vynal top.

THAT color scheme says 1971, fo sho...

Damn shame we don't build cars like that anymore. In some ways I feel like it was all downhill for Pontiac after the last 74 455 SD TA rolled off of the line.

Chris

[ocnblu]

A lot of us miss those days, 66, and believe evolution should have been the rule at GM instead of revolution during the Downsizing Era. Look at BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, for examples on how evolution works wonderfully.

[Camino LS6]

I don't immediately recall specific performance versions of the car, but the 455 would have been available. GPs of that vintage were mostly separated by trim levels: J, SJ, and SSJ.

I have this nagging feeling that a Hurst edition was in there somewhere in those years though, I can see it in my mind's eye.

[A Horse With No Name]

I recall the hurst as well. It just seemed odd to me that Pontiac would build a solid lifter 400 HO when a 455 would have been more in keeping with the "character" of the car.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

...although I have seen several Olds 72 Pace car copes (and 1970, as well) W the Hurst package...Damn...Camino it seems like I remember an actual Hurst GP from a car show in my childhood or teen years somewhere.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Can't say I remember the solid lifter 400, but then I didn't follow the GP too closely.

[Camino LS6]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1969-1...972-hurst-1.jpg

[hyperv6]

I would like to know about the performance variants of the Grand Prix...sat down next to an old man at the local Waffle House eating breakfast the other day, and we started talking cars. Turned out he was a lifelong Pontiac guy, and his favourite car had been a 71 Grand Prix with of all things a solid lifter version of the Pontiac 400.

Anyone here know how rare that car was? (he sold it in 83, so I'd venture to guess its sadly no longer around)Any other specs on the 69-72 Grand Prix models that were performance oriented?

The old guys former GP was cool...bright yellow with a green interior and a green vynal top.

THAT color scheme says 1971, fo sho...

Damn shame we don't build cars like that anymore. In some ways I feel like it was all downhill for Pontiac after the last 74 455 SD TA rolled off of the line.

Chris

Not that rare of a car and had low compressing starting in 71. I may be wrong but I do not know of a solid lifter 400 available then.

The best of the 69-72 was the 1969 390 HP 428 HO. It was optional with a rare 4 speed. I have a lot of miles in one of these and was a fast top end car but it was not a GTO because of the extra weight. It was respectable but not all out fast.

I had a buddy with one that had a 4 speed and leather interior. THe car was wasted and went to the junk yard years ago. THat car would be worth some bucks today.

The only valuable car out of those years are the 70-72 Hurst cars. THey were white and gold and a rare black and gold.

The 69-72 GP's are the most appreciated and under valued of the Pontiacs in my opinion.

Every time I see a clean one for sale I get to thinking about it.

[A Horse With No Name]

Interesting Pontiac GP link...

http://www.classicalpontiac.com/gp/index.html

272 Hursts for 70, 157 for 71, 60 for 72. Not a high production automobile.

The production figures for Manual tranny cars were very low.

I also really liked the 65 Pontiac Grand Prix.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

I remember one when I was a kid that had a "rocket" mounted on the hood. It looked like a weapon about to be launched (very realistic), and it had wires running to it that were convincing. The car itself was black and immaculate.

One day it went roaring up my street with a chick sprawled across the hood.

It was an image I'll never forget.

[A Horse With No Name]

Not that rare of a car and had low compressing starting in 71. I may be wrong but I do not know of a solid lifter 400 available then.

The best of the 69-72 was the 1969 390 HP 428 HO. It was optional with a rare 4 speed. I have a lot of miles in one of these and was a fast top end car but it was not a GTO because of the extra weight. It was respectable but not all out fast.

I had a buddy with one that had a 4 speed and leather interior. THe car was wasted and went to the junk yard years ago. THat car would be worth some bucks today.

The only valuable car out of those years are the 70-72 Hurst cars. THey were white and gold and a rare black and gold.

The 69-72 GP's are the most appreciated and under valued of the Pontiacs in my opinion.

Every time I see a clean one for sale I get to thinking about it.

It's always sad to think of a nice old Pontiac going to the crusher. I had a co worker once who wold a nice 65 GTO to an idiot who totaled it.

oh well...making the world safe for the Yaris and the Versa, I guess.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I remember one when I was a kid that had a "rocket" mounted on the hood. It looked like a weapon about to be launched (very realistic), and it had wires running to it that were convincing. The car itself was black and immaculate.

One day it went roaring up my street with a chick sprawled across the hood.

It was an image I'll never forget.

I wouldn't forget that either.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Around the same time a kid down the street had a Formula 455 in Lucerne blue.

I was in love when I saw that car.

He destroyed it in no time flat.

[SAmadei]

I don't immediately recall specific performance versions of the car, but the 455 would have been available. GPs of that vintage were mostly separated by trim levels: J, SJ, and SSJ.

I have this nagging feeling that a Hurst edition was in there somewhere in those years though, I can see it in my mind's eye.

There was. Hurst cars came with a specific Gold and White two-tone color.

DeLorean was a Duesy fan, so he stole the J, SJ and SSJ from them. The long nose and big chrome grill are also Duesy cues.

[Camino LS6]

There was. Hurst cars came with a specific Gold and White two-tone color.

DeLorean was a Duesy fan, so he stole the J, SJ and SSJ from them. The long nose and big chrome grill are also Duesy cues.

Yup, I forgot about that.

[balthazar]

As no doubt the link verified (I didn't click it), the SSJ was the Hurst GP.

These cars ARE undervalued, IMO, as a lot of the true classic late '60 GMs are (Eldorado & Toronado, for 2).

>>"...it was not a GTO because of the extra weight"<<

Base car weight; GP was only 140 lbs more than a GTO. Don't forget- it was on the A-Special ("G") chassis beginning in '69- no longer a B-Body.

Gears are a probable factor in performance perception, because the HP/TRQ of the 428 HO should MORE than offset that vs a stock GTO.

In fact: Car Life, 9/69: '69 GP 428HO 4-spd, 1/4mile: 14.1 @ 95.

Car Life, 3/69, '69 GTO Judge RA IV 4-spd, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 97.

Even the much vaunted SD-455s in factory tune were supposedly good for 14.4s (vs. the 13.5s the non-production 310HP press cars were turning).

RPO '71 GP engine options:

Code WT 300 hp/400 3-spd

Code WK 300 hp/400 4-spd

Code YS 300 hp/400 auto

Code YC 325 hp/455 auto

None of these are solid lifter motors, in fact, the only period solid lifter motors were non-RPO RamAir motors (RA-V and above). Pontiac motors were nearly universally hydraulic-lifter motors, even the RA-IV and the SD-455s were hydraulic lifter motors (SD-421s were solid, tho) .... but the old tymer certainly could have retro-fitted his eninge with solid lifters after the fact.

[ocnblu]

I remember riding in my uncle's friend's brand new '72 Grand Prix, it was burnt orange with saddle vinyl top and saddle interior. There was always something special about Pontiacs to me, and it will remain so.

[A Horse With No Name]

As no doubt the link verified (I didn't click it), the SSJ was the Hurst GP.

These cars ARE undervalued, IMO, as a lot of the true classic late '60 GMs are (Eldorado & Toronado, for 2).

Gears are a probable factor in performance perception, because the HP/TRQ of the 428 HO should MORE than offset that vs a stock GTO.

In fact: Car Life, 9/69: '69 GP 428HO 4-spd, 1/4mile: 14.1 @ 95.

Car Life, 3/69, '69 GTO Judge RA IV 4-spd, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 97.

Even the much vaunted SD-455s in factory tune were supposedly good for 14.4s (vs. the 13.5s the non-production 310HP press cars were turning).

That 14.1 is impressive!

Chris

[balthazar]

I seem to recall a test at 13.9, too.

428 HO was one of the best motors PMD built- a monster.

Sigh.

[A Horse With No Name]

I seem to recall a test at 13.9, too.

428 HO was one of the best motors PMD built- a monster.

Sigh.

I remember well a dark green 70ish Firebird making runs out at National Tral Raceway with a 428.

There's a yellow 69 Firebird that I've seen run out there that I think runs a 428IIRC...or maybe its a 400 but methinks its a 428.

Chris

[cletus8269]

i got you a hook up. 69 428 GP SJ 4Sp

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2008/0...n_feature7.html

dig it.

also i have something of interest from the car show in charlotte. i havent posted the pics yet but i am getting them in order... since i took close to 950 of them.

[balthazar]

That silver/charcoal car is EFFING SWEET !!

I came close to owning a '69 J, Pepper Green with a steel roof, from the original elderly owners, but didn't have the scratch at the time.

[cletus8269]

yeah i thought the silver and black was tastefully done as well. that hurst has a lot of work ahead to bring her back though. the rust in the qtrs was quite profuse... that dent by the sunroof is going to be a beast to get out and back in shape as well.

[ocnblu]

Wow clete, that gray GP is quite the looker.

[hyperv6]

It's always sad to think of a nice old Pontiac going to the crusher. I had a co worker once who wold a nice 65 GTO to an idiot who totaled it.

oh well...making the world safe for the Yaris and the Versa, I guess.

Chris

The car that went to the crusher was not worth saving but the interior and tanny set up were in good shape. the body and frame were beyond saving. With the weak market for these cars he just never considered saving the parts back then.

14.1 with the right geas on a good run would be right but the average 428 was more closer to 15 sec. Now that is not to say it would not peg the speed at over 130 MPH.

We built and ran a lot of 428's in everything from birds to GTO's.

Most would take little to get into the 12 and 11's if you could get them to hook up. We had one we cracked the ring lands on the stock cast pistons at the track. It would not hurt the block but it would run on six cylinders. THis was a 65 GTO with a stock 400 Tranny, vaccum secondary tri power, ram air IV cam and a 12 bolt Chevy with a 3:08 gear. It also had full exhaust and street tires with no stall torque converter. On 6 cylinders it pulled a 14:01. We took it home and were good at taking the engine out and had it on the floor in 30 MIN.

They still have this engine and several other 428's. One that was in a 11 sec GTO is now detuned with a milder cam and stock intake is in a Jag sedan. The V12 droped a vlave seat for the second time so in went the 428 about 20 years ago and it is still there. It is faster and much more reliable. You can also change the water pump with out removing the hood.

We used to find a lot of 428.s in Bonnies and Cats! Buy the cars for nothing and rip the engine out. Drop in a 350 and sell it.