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Wings4Life(BANNED)

Surprise! GM putting aluminum in next-gen pickups

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Last month, General Motors launched a series of ads touting the benefits of steel over aluminum – specifically, with regard to the Chevy Silverado versus the Ford F-150. (Kind of. We're not sure what a grizzly bear has to do with anything.) We took issue with the ads, with editor in chief Mike Austin saying they "reek of insecurity, and distract from the Silverado's strengths that could be used for positive advertising." But what bothers us more, is that yet another report surfaced claiming anti-aluminum GM will indeed use the weight-saving material in its next-generation fullsize trucks.

 

 

On Tuesday, GM announced a $877-million investment for its truck plant in Flint, MI. But Reuters says that huge overhaul is because the trucks will use "substantially different equipment than the tools GM uses today." The report specifically states, "People familiar with the company's plans say GM's next-generation pickups and SUVs will make use of various materials, including aluminum and lightweight steel, to shed weight and gain fuel efficiency to meet tougher federal standards."

 

 

The Silverado already uses a few aluminum components in the engine and hood, and if more widespread use will help GM build its best fullsize trucks ever, then that's great. Honestly, we have no reason to doubt that aluminum will be used in the next Silverado and GMC Sierra. We just hope GM remembers that nothing is ever truly deleted from the bowels of the Internet when it launches the subsequent "look how great aluminum is!" campaign.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/05/gm-fullsize-trucks-aluminum/?icid=autoblog|trend|gm-aluminum-pickups

 

 


This news is actually a few days old.

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I have every confidence that GM's execution of this program will be superior to that of the competition.

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This is good, I can see an Aluminum exterior shell but a steel inner one that is actually used for the loads.Be interesting to see how GM implements the aluminum into the next generation SUV's and Trucks. Be interesting to see how they hold up in work and off road.

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This is good, I can see an Aluminum exterior shell but a steel inner one that is actually used for the loads.Be interesting to see how GM implements the aluminum into the next generation SUV's and Trucks. Be interesting to see how they hold up in work and off road.

 

Loads? are you referring to the bed, because the current and only aluminum truck on the market has double the load capacity of the competition.

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This is good, I can see an Aluminum exterior shell but a steel inner one that is actually used for the loads.Be interesting to see how GM implements the aluminum into the next generation SUV's and Trucks. Be interesting to see how they hold up in work and off road.

 

Loads? are you referring to the bed, because the current and only aluminum truck on the market has double the load capacity of the competition.

 

Yes, my experience with aluminum box's and beds on trucks is they wear out faster than steel. As such, I could see the inner liner of the bed being high strength steel but the outer shell being aluminum.

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It is also instructive to note the tone of GM's ads, which was, how you say?... tongue-in-cheek. Not something you normally find in truck ads, because it is a pretty competitive segment.

But after putting the Ford on the scales, doubtless GM execs were feeling unusually chipper. Besides, after years of listening to Dennis Leary's smarm hocking the competition, they probably thought that the buying public would cheer giving them a nice wedgie.

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This is good, I can see an Aluminum exterior shell but a steel inner one that is actually used for the loads.Be interesting to see how GM implements the aluminum into the next generation SUV's and Trucks. Be interesting to see how they hold up in work and off road.

 

Loads? are you referring to the bed, because the current and only aluminum truck on the market has double the load capacity of the competition.

 

Yes, my experience with aluminum box's and beds on trucks is they wear out faster than steel. As such, I could see the inner liner of the bed being high strength steel but the outer shell being aluminum.

 

You have past long term experience on aluminum bed trucks?

I would love to hear it.

I wonder how badly their bear cage commercial will come back to bite them in the butt.

 

It's bearly possible.

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This is good, I can see an Aluminum exterior shell but a steel inner one that is actually used for the loads.Be interesting to see how GM implements the aluminum into the next generation SUV's and Trucks. Be interesting to see how they hold up in work and off road.

 

Loads? are you referring to the bed, because the current and only aluminum truck on the market has double the load capacity of the competition.

 

Yes, my experience with aluminum box's and beds on trucks is they wear out faster than steel. As such, I could see the inner liner of the bed being high strength steel but the outer shell being aluminum.

 

You have past long term experience on aluminum bed trucks?

I would love to hear it.

I wonder how badly their bear cage commercial will come back to bite them in the butt.

 

It's bearly possible.

 

Working in college where trucks were bought and custom beds were installed, the Aluminum beds and box's never lasted as long as the steel units, but did contribute to far better MPG due to the lighter weight. Biggest issue seen with Aluminum beds and box's is that Aluminum fatigues much faster and you end up with Aluminum tears or rips especially when people drop stuff on it over and over. I expect the Pure Aluminum beds to wear out much faster. This is why I am wondering if GM will do a Steel inner bed with an Aluminum outer shell.

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To quell the notion that Ford's hurting; it should be reminded to all that Hyundai overtook Ford many a years ago in volume in global sales. Ford's kicking butt in profit generation like they've done consistently for 7-8 years now. Hyundai isn't; despite being a huge conglomerate, definitely reaping the rewards of favourable inter-company transfer pricing.

 

Ford's got no reason to be worried when they've got money in their pockets; and when they're getting the rights sales mix. Heck, maybe selling Titaniums and Platinums is more profitable than Lincoln sales. They make money. From an investment standpoint or as a bean counter I may say; they look the healthy. Again, unit sales do not matter as much as they used to. Margins, and profit matter the most. Ford can chase volume when the new for now F150 gets old in the future relative to the competition. Heck, 2013/4 F150 sales were surging, and it was the oldest steel tub in the marketplace. It was all just the margins of selling a truck when all it's development costs were done and done.

 

Their liquidity is great; cash reserves are topped off; and receivables are ever rising in size and preferred quality. GM and FCA can't match that, despite having extensive product lines and so many great products, and getting more sales. Being a lean company helps Ford remarkably.

 

And I personally think it's awkward for GM to advertise the benefits of steel when they are definitely going to use even more aluminum for the body. It's not like they don't use enough already - I believe the hood, fenders and tailgate are aluminum. Perhaps's that is why GM is closer to the weight of F150 compared to RAM. I don't think GM is going to be doing a full transition to aluminum as much as just making the rest of the body aluminum.

 

I can say outright that GM will not have the weight savings that the F150 experienced. It's gonna be close. I think the Silverado will not weigh less than the F150 unless some compromise has to be made that lowers durability - or downsizes the foot print of the vehicle. We all know that the F150 ballooned in size this generation. But again, weight isn't everything. The RAM in the recent comparison with the F150 felt really buttoned down, while the substantial weight savings of the F150 made everything feel foreign in the way it drives.

 

That's just unavoidable for the up coming Silverado/Sierra as well. In that case, in that specific regard; the RAM 1500 might as well beat the Aluminum GM pickups as well. In the strive to make all vehicles lighter and more fuel -efficient, how much more can RAM extract from the diesel engine and transmission combination before weight loss becomes absolutely inevitable? It's a floating target that ever changes.

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It comes down to bed design and gauge of metal.

Yeah, aluminum fatigues faster, but it takes a lot to eventually reach that point and it needs extreme bending too.  

 

Anyway, it seems to hold up to decades of service, in far more extreme repeated flexing conditions.....in fighter jets.

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Ford has no worries AS LONG AS they have money in their pockets. I have no argument with this.

But this truck has taken a fair bit of money. And it has been put behind schedule in earnin it back. And this has helped the competition.

That is the extent of my argument as far as financial stuff goes. Deep coffers can help, but mistakes are mistakes.

It comes down to bed design and gauge of metal.

Yeah, aluminum fatigues faster, but it takes a lot to eventually reach that point and it needs extreme bending too.  

 

Anyway, it seems to hold up to decades of service, in far more extreme repeated flexing conditions.....in fighter jets.

Terrible analogy. Fighter jets are incredibly maintenance-intensive, airframes included.

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^

 

Thanks, but, the topic I responded to was it's ability to handle repeated bending....and your mentioning service intervals has what to do with that?  They are not replacing air frames, for Pet's sake.

 

:thumbsup:


And Is bong really still going on about Ford's capital investment in the F150, many, many, months ago?

 

oy vey

Edited by Wings4Life

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Still an awful analogy. Still poor spending by Ford.

Time does not change facts. But ignoring them makes them worse.

:(

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Any way, 

 

 

GM trucks......glad you are coming over to the dark side by adding Al.

The industry shift that will result will help all the players.

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Still an awful analogy. Still poor spending by Ford.

Time does not change facts. But ignoring them makes them worse.

:(

 

Still an awful analogy. Still poor spending by Ford.

Time does not change facts. But ignoring them makes them worse.

:(

 

It may be poor spending, but it's suckered GM and maybe FCA to do it as well. 

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Ford has no worries AS LONG AS they have money in their pockets. I have no argument with this.

But this truck has taken a fair bit of money. And it has been put behind schedule in earnin it back. And this has helped the competition.

That is the extent of my argument as far as financial stuff goes. Deep coffers can help, but mistakes are mistakes.

It comes down to bed design and gauge of metal.

Yeah, aluminum fatigues faster, but it takes a lot to eventually reach that point and it needs extreme bending too.  

 

Anyway, it seems to hold up to decades of service, in far more extreme repeated flexing conditions.....in fighter jets.

Terrible analogy. Fighter jets are incredibly maintenance-intensive, airframes included.

 

No, Ford didn't expect to have a record second quarter. They are earning it back faster than they thought; and a frames shortage is what is putting them behind. And it has helped the competition sales wise, but not profit-wise. Again, it's all about what Ford wanted. Did Ford want to make the most of the lucrative truck sales by sharply raising margins - or did they want to continue to be the best seller, but not the best profit generator?

 

GM can chase volume. Fine. But Ford's in it for the long haul. They are willing to lose sales; to make money. And sometimes, that's the only way it can happen. The increase in margin has the same effect of more sales- expect there's less wear and tear on facilities- for one.

 

I will drive this point into the dirt if I have to. Outright sales crowns do not matter. Ford doesn't care for them anymore. They want to make money to finance the D6 platform and pay for Ford performance branded products - and they want to pay down their debt. It's actually quite smart really. 

 

A business is not in business if it's whoring itself out and making no money. Ford figured that out atleast.

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Still an awful analogy. Still poor spending by Ford.

Time does not change facts. But ignoring them makes them worse. :(

Still an awful analogy. Still poor spending by Ford.

Time does not change facts. But ignoring them makes them worse. :(

It may be poor spending, but it's suckered GM and maybe FCA to do it as well.

If GM screws up their supply chain as badly as Ford has, and the trucks deliver next to nothing in mileage gains like Ford has, I will gladly concede your point.

But they won't.

They have watched. They have learned. And they will continue to capitalize.

It's like the Omega chassis. They saw what worked and what didn't as far as the competition went, and applied the lessons to a platform that integrated aluminum both uniquely and efficiently.

Folks: it's not like GM is new to the watch-and-learn-and-improve game. It's not something unique to trucks, or to their rivalry with Ford.

Edited by El Kabong

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Bong, Ford didn't screw up when it came to Aluminum - because they're satisfied with their internal objectives. No amount of you asserting that notion will make it come true.

 

As an aside, don't drag this thread by bringing Ford down. 

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Bong, Ford didn't screw up when it came to Aluminum - because they're satisfied with their internal objectives. No amount of you asserting that notion will make it come true.

 

As an aside, don't drag this thread by bringing Ford down.

If your internal objectives include being down eight percent year-over-year, massive vendor supply issues, and not actually getting much better mileage... then yes. They're dancing in the streets.

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Bong, Ford didn't screw up when it came to Aluminum - because they're satisfied with their internal objectives. No amount of you asserting that notion will make it come true.

 

As an aside, don't drag this thread by bringing Ford down.

If your internal objectives include being down eight percent year-over-year, massive vendor supply issues, and not actually getting much better mileage... then yes. They're dancing in the streets.

 

sigh... Ignorance is bliss to some..

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