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William Maley

Toyota News: There Is A Second-Generation Toyota 86 Coming

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Toyota and Subaru have been quiet on whether or not there would be a second-generation to the 86/BRZ coupe. But Toyota has broken the silence, telling Autocar there would be a second-generation model.

“The GT86 will carry on. The car serves a big purpose. We are not getting out of that business. Sporty cars go through their phases. It’s our intention to continue with that car,” said Toyota Europe boss Karl Schlicht.

Like the current model, it is expected that Toyota and Subaru will once again team up on developing the next-generation model. Schlicht did admit that there is no firm confirmation of Subaru coming back to this partnership. 

“Will it be with Subaru? I don’t know. But for the concept to carry on, with the low engine, we’d have to do that. There are a lot of reasons to continue with Subaru.”

Autocar says the next-generation 86 could arrive in late 2018 or 2019.

Source: Autocar


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Glad they have more markets for this than just the Untied States.  This is probably the last naturally aspirated affordable we will see....outside of the Miata.

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I mean, I'm happy to hear this, but I have to say I'm more surprised. Sales have languished for years, they've refused to do a hi-po variant, and the model has seen but extremely modest updates.

They need to do this right. The car needs to be designed to accomodate a convertible and a high performance version out of the gate.

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Interesting, why would Subaru not do this, after all Toyota owns them pretty much.

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Toyota has managed to take a classic, proven formula and create a boring car nobody gives a rat's ass about. It's less than the sum of its parts, and the new Miata kicks its ass.

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Well to be fair this has been a tough market for coupes. Not just under powered ones. 


But Toyota did really miss the mark here. This car needs a little more power. It could be done easily with such a light weight car. They did not need to add a V8 but they did need to add some more HP and some more improved performance options in the suspension. Let people build this car to suit their needs not just pose as a fun car missing the fun. 

Now Keep in mind I am not saying make it 500 HO but another 40 HP would have solved many issues. 

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The engine fell short of everyone's expectations right from the beginning. Toyota's 4-cylinder legacy sets a bar much higher than 200 horsepower with a 7500 rpm redline.

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15 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Toyota has managed to take a classic, proven formula and create a boring car nobody gives a rat's ass about. It's less than the sum of its parts, and the new Miata kicks its ass.

The Miata kicks its ass in many ways.

hate to say it, but for all of my lvoe of this car, given the choice, I think I would take the Miata.

14 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Well to be fair this has been a tough market for coupes. Not just under powered ones. 


But Toyota did really miss the mark here. This car needs a little more power. It could be done easily with such a light weight car. They did not need to add a V8 but they did need to add some more HP and some more improved performance options in the suspension. Let people build this car to suit their needs not just pose as a fun car missing the fun. 

Now Keep in mind I am not saying make it 500 HO but another 40 HP would have solved many issues. 

They are also trying to make it affordable. 

People are comprising it to the Honda S2000, and the S2000 like a lot of Japanese sports cars was very expensive when it came out.  The S2000 often sold for something like 32 grand, which adjusted for inflation is probably like 40 grand...

The BRZ/Toyota 86 sells for 25 grand, which adjusted into 2004 or 2005 dollars is something like  18 grand....you cannot compare an 18,000 car with a 40,000 car...

And peoples incomes have not kept pace with inflation.  a turbo and a nicer interior might push this to 30-35K, where it will start to compete with V8 Mustang, V8 Camaro, et al

 

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14 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Well to be fair this has been a tough market for coupes. Not just under powered ones. 


But Toyota did really miss the mark here. This car needs a little more power. It could be done easily with such a light weight car. They did not need to add a V8 but they did need to add some more HP and some more improved performance options in the suspension. Let people build this car to suit their needs not just pose as a fun car missing the fun. 

Now Keep in mind I am not saying make it 500 HO but another 40 HP would have solved many issues. 

Just another 40-50 ft-lbs if torque from base RPM would have changed how the car drove.

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41 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The Miata kicks its ass in many ways.

hate to say it, but for all of my lvoe of this car, given the choice, I think I would take the Miata.

They are also trying to make it affordable. 

People are comprising it to the Honda S2000, and the S2000 like a lot of Japanese sports cars was very expensive when it came out.  The S2000 often sold for something like 32 grand, which adjusted for inflation is probably like 40 grand...

The BRZ/Toyota 86 sells for 25 grand, which adjusted into 2004 or 2005 dollars is something like  18 grand....you cannot compare an 18,000 car with a 40,000 car...

And peoples incomes have not kept pace with inflation.  a turbo and a nicer interior might push this to 30-35K, where it will start to compete with V8 Mustang, V8 Camaro, et al

 

A little more torque and HP is not going to increase the cost that much.

As for the other models it is up to the owner how much they want to spend.

The S2000 was never really in the picture here. They were sold in such small numbers and only had two seats.  This was more of a car for someone getting out of collage that just got a new job but still paying a loan off would be able to afford and insure. 

I call not for anything over the top but a little more HP and Torque would fix this a bit.

The one issue is still two doors as younger people really have little care over coupes anymore. We would not want caught dead in a sedan but today given the choice that is what most will pick.

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Most of them want to haul their friends, and 4 doors is actually an advantage-which is why the Focus and Fiesta ST, along with the SI sedan, sell so well.

Also with people putting off marriage and lots of young people getting horizontal and knocking knees, there is a good chance his young female friend has a young un.

A Focus St or Civic SI 4 door will swallow a car seat, good luck with that with a BRZ.

 

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Just another 40-50 ft-lbs if torque from base RPM would have changed how the car drove.

Probably not realistic for a naturally aspirated 4 cyl in that price range.

Edited by A Horse With No Name

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1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Probably not realistic for a naturally aspirated 4 cyl in that price range.

Disagree, there have been plenty of NA engines that did better than this turd did. Problem is this is a one of those over rev'd engines with 205 HP, but only 156 lbs-ft of torque. 40 to 50 more ft-lbs of torque would have helped big time.

Course Olds Quad 4 900HP 4 banger would be awesome too.

Quad4-900-1.JPG

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32 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Disagree, there have been plenty of NA engines that did better than this turd did. Problem is this is a one of those over rev'd engines with 205 HP, but only 156 lbs-ft of torque. 40 to 50 more ft-lbs of torque would have helped big time.

Course Olds Quad 4 900HP 4 banger would be awesome too.

Quad4-900-1.JPG

...and this is the problem, everyone is wanting a supercar for Cruze prices....not going to happen.

Besides, the WRX is a grand more and much more of a performance car.  GTI is much better road car....better options exist for the money.

But GTI and WRX share a body shell and most other components with high volume sedans.  BRZ is a bespoke chassis and body style....

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13 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and this is the problem, everyone is wanting a supercar for Cruze prices....not going to happen.

Besides, the WRX is a grand more and much more of a performance car.  GTI is much better road car....better options exist for the money.

But GTI and WRX share a body shell and most other components with high volume sedans.  BRZ is a bespoke chassis and body style....

 

This is the real problem.

 

Even for a single guy with no kids, a WRX, GTI, or FoST is so much more car for the money.

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 Here is the problem today. 

In the past they could take an economy car and pop in a Corvette engine for pennies and make it a cool fast affordable car then. Then the Insurance cost came into play. 

Now we have economy cars now that are small FWD cars that are 5 times the cost of the economy cars of the past. Most are FWD and if you apply AWD and a decent engine to it the price jumps to $40K and they now can not afford the payment as well as the insurance. 

The older people do not cramped small cars even if they are fast as they can generally afford better. 

Lets face it most kids with these cars are limited to mom and dad bought it or they just happen to be lucky to get a decent job or work all the hours they can to afford it.

Kids today have really lost that dream of owning a really cool car. They can no longer attempt to work at a gas station and have dad cosign for a Corvette or GTO as they did in the 60's. 

They do not have the option of buying a used Big Block performance car for pennies on the dollar like they did in the 70's and in the 80's the used performance market was there but was edging farther and farther away with cost and insurance. 

So kids now turn to video games and cell phones. It used to be cars were your connection to a social life and it represented you and got you to the mall where you hung out. Today the malls are closing down and the kids are linking up on their video games and Facebook.

The goal today is not to have a 6.6 but a I Phone 7 Plus.

The cars today with good suspensions start at $25K and run to the mid $30's. You add a better engine and it jumps to the high 30's and goes to just over $40K.  Too often these cars used are well used and often trashed due to poor modifications and poor car.  Try to find a good Cobalt SS today with low miles or in decent condition same for others. 

Ford and Chevy have tried to make some real options in the Camaro and Mustang with smaller engines but yet potent like the 1LE V6 Camaro that can be had for a decent price and is a prime car. But again it is mid $30's and again insurance. 

Kids also have a difficult time getting work in many areas as the entry level jobs are drying up and the raise in min wage has killed what was left. There are also no gas station jobs for anyone under 21 years old due to the sale of alcohol and no more pumping of gas. 

The only real way to do these cars is globally. Even the Mustang and Camaro are making moves to go overseas now. 

Lets face it one of the best buys is the GTI but it lacks the engine till you move up in price. The ST is a waste of time. The future just looks weak here. 

The one area I think is being over looked is a sport truck. The ZQ8 was a real option as it was lower priced and you could option it from base model to loaded and the after market really made it easy to do what ever you wanted to do with it. I would like to see a mid size and full size sport model in 2WD offered in 4-V6 and in the full size Various V8 models. 

I had a Sonoma ZQ8 that was a dream. It was like driving a Z/28 and an El Camino. It could have used a little more engine than the 4.3 as it was sorely under powered. 

It was a good deal compared to many cars. 


My HHR SS also is a fun car to drive. Frustrating that it is FWD and hard to get it to hook up. But AWD would have driven the price way out of the realm of worth. The aftermarket really did a good job of giving the engine what it needed for only a couple hundred dollars. The Camaro 4 needs this package and about 320 HP. 

Then you have the false notion that RWD cars can not be driven in the snow. We did it for 100 years with no issues. Limited slip and good tires do the work and today with all the electronic aides you can get anywhere. I would just avoid it just because if I had a new Camaro I would not want it in the salt. 

To sum this up there is no easy answer that adds up here economically. Even if they take the Cruze and make an SS it will cost too much for the target customer if you do it right. How much will someone pay for a Cruze? 

I think the best bet is to take the Opel OPC hatch make it a Mini killer and sell it at Buick and target 30 somethings. This would give them a fun car, a car they can afford and option it to where it is worth the price. That way you can do AWD and the things you need and get the price you should. 

Edited by hyperv6
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7 hours ago, dfelt said:

Disagree, there have been plenty of NA engines that did better than this turd did. Problem is this is a one of those over rev'd engines with 205 HP, but only 156 lbs-ft of torque. 40 to 50 more ft-lbs of torque would have helped big time.

Course Olds Quad 4 900HP 4 banger would be awesome too.

Quad4-900-1.JPG

Just the ecotec turbo in my SS is great ad affordable. 

The Solstice up grade went to 290 HP and 340 Ft lbs.

My SS was limited by the trans axle.

Just now, hyperv6 said:

Just the ecotec turbo in my SS is great ad affordable. 

The Solstice up grade went to 290 HP and 340 Ft lbs.

My SS was limited by the trans axle.

Lingenfelter was running stock blocks and heads to 1500 HP.

The drifting Solstice did 500 HP with no tear downs all seasons. So the protetial is there.

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I think its cool Toyota makes this car, but it's not going to gain market force until it gets a real engine.

Shame, because a small car with nuts and rip roaring HP might be a combination for success.

Chevy will be forced to start dumping lesser trim Camaros and cutting their base prices, etc. so ultimately whether there is a new FRs or not, it may actually compete straight up on price with those 4 and 6 cyl Camaros....and in that instance, I go Camaro every day of the week.  15's were fire saling for 21, 22 grand and now Chevy wants 27 grand for a 4 banger Camaro.  I think if Chevy repackages and rebates those basic 4 cylinder Camaros to leave the showroom at 24 grand after discounts it would be damn hard for the FRS to gain any significant traction too....unless they get some engine in there.

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      The big story with the update deals with the suspension. All TRD Pro models now come with aluminum-bodied 2.5-inch TRD Fox Internal Bypass shocks. The shocks promise improved damping for on- and off-road situations, and each models gets their own specific tuning for the shocks. All models also get new front springs to improve ground clearance and provide a more comfortable ride. Each TRD Pro model gets their own setup in terms of the rear suspension,
      4Runner: TRD Coil Springs Tacoma: Progressive-Rate Off-Road Leaf Springs Tundra: Leaf Springs found on TRD Off-Road Trim Toyota has also made various changes in terms of exterior and features for each TRD Pro model.
      4Runner: 17-inch matte-black TRD alloy wheels, 1/4-inch front skid plate, and new roof rack Tacoma: 1-inch wider track for the front and rear, 16-inch TRD alloy wheels finished in black, thicker front skid plate, and optional TRD Desert Air Intake (also called a snorkel) Tundra: New LED head and foglights, grille, hood scoop, and 18-inch BBS forged-aluminum, five-spoke satin black wheels Pricing will be announced closer to the launch of the TRD Pro models, which is expected to happen this fall.
      Source: Toyota
      Press Release is on Page 2


      Game Changer: 2019 Toyota TRD Pros Typify Ultimate Off-Road Performance
      Next-Generation 4Runner and Tundra TRD Pro Feature All-New Fox shocks; Tacoma TRD Pro to Feature New TRD Desert Air Intake
      Fox 2.5-inch Internal Bypass Shocks Featured on Entire TRD Pro Lineup Tacoma TRD Pro Offers Available TRD Desert Air Intake New TRD Roof Rack on 4Runner TRD Pro Tundra TRD Pro Fitted with Rigid Fog Lights and BBS Wheels Three Colors Offered: Super White, Midnight Black Metallic, and Voodoo Blue (TRD Pro-Exclusive) CHICAGO (Feb. 8, 2018) – The pulse-pounding, heart-racing TRD Pro Series from Toyota returns for its next generation of off-road dominance. For 2019, Tundra, 4Runner and Tacoma will all feature Fox shocks and a host of impressive off-road equipment tuned and designed by the engineers at Toyota Racing Development (TRD).
       
      First unveiled in 2014, the TRD Pro lineup was born from Toyota’s rich racing and off-road heritage. All TRD Pro vehicles offer unique styling, as well as highly capable, tried and tested performance off-road equipment, specifically tailored for when the pavement runs out.
       
      The 2019 TRD Pro series will be available in fall of 2018, and each vehicle will be offered in three colors that include Super White, Midnight Black Metallic or Voodoo Blue (a TRD Pro exclusive color).
       
      Wanna go places? TRD Pro is the ultimate tool to get you there and back.
       
      Only as Good as Your Suspension
       
      As any seasoned adventurer knows, a true off-road vehicle is only as good as its suspension. For 2019, the entire TRD Pro family rides on 2.5-inch TRD Pro-exclusive Fox Internal Bypass shocks. Tuned specifically for each vehicle by the engineers at TRD, the aluminum-bodied Fox shocks offer impressive performance and supreme damping for a wide variety of driving situations. High-speed desert running, slow-speed rock crawling, or simply driving to and from work – drivers and passengers will be as comfortable as they are confident.
       
      Whereas off-road race vehicles traditionally have external bypass tubes on their shock bodies to fine-tune damping pressure, each high-tech Fox shock compactly incorporates bypass zones inside of the shock. These multiple bypass zones offer a cushioned, plush ride during typical operation but get progressively stiffer through the shock stroke to provide excellent bottoming resistance.
       
      The front shocks are paired with specially-tuned TRD springs designed for excellent ride comfort and to also produce additional lift, giving each TRD Pro an aggressive, heightened stance for improved trail-conquering capability. A combination of high-temperature shock fluid and nitrogen gas pressure are employed inside each Fox shock to improve bump compliance and to help maximize seal life.
       
      Every TRD Pro model features rear 2.5-inch Fox shocks that utilize a piggyback reservoir to house additional oil volume, which assists in maintaining peak damping performance during extreme use. Tundra relies on the beefy rear leaf springs also equipped on the TRD Off-Road grade, 4Runner utilizes the TRD Off-Road grade rear coil springs, while Tacoma features progressive-rate off-road leaf springs out back to allow more compression suspension travel to aid performance over rough terrain. TRD dust boots are utilized front and rear to offer added protection to help keep dust and dirt out, and 4Runner utilizes unique roost shields to help protect the inverted rear shock.
       
      Tacoma TRD Pro: Civilized Commuter or Trail-Tackling Specialist
       
      Based on the very trail-capable TRD Off-Road grade, Tacoma TRD Pro ups the ante with enhanced 2.5-inch Fox front shocks that use large 46mm pistons and feature 8 bypass zones (5 compression, 3 rebound). They are paired with TRD-tuned springs that provide an additional 1 inch of front lift. A larger front sway bar is employed to retain crisp steering and refined road manners. The Tacoma also features 2.5-inch rear shocks that use 11 bypass zones (7 compression, 4 rebound) and are paired with 2-inch piggyback reservoirs.
       
      A host of additional TRD equipment finds its way onto the new Tacoma TRD Pro, including an updated front skid plate with TRD red lettering, while the cat-back TRD exhaust is accented with a new Black Chrome tip.
       
      Inside, passengers are treated to standard Entune Premium JBL Audio with subwoofer amplifier and Integrated Navigation and App Suite. Tacoma is equipped with TRD Pro-branded floor mats and leather-trimmed seats with TRD Pro emblems on the front headrests. Distinguishing the exterior are unique TRD Pro badges, projector-beam headlights with black sport bezels and LED Daytime Running Lights (DRL), Rigid Industries LED fog lights, taillights with black sport bezels, and a black TOYOTA grille.
       
      Thanks to the offset of the 16-inch TRD Pro black alloy wheels, Tacoma has a 1-inch wider track both front and rear for added stability. Trail and pavement traction comes in the form of P265/70R16 Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar All-Terrain tires.
       
      TRD Desert Air Intake: Clearing Tacoma’s Sinuses, No Prescription Needed
       
      The most eye-catching of the Tacoma upgrades, no doubt, is the available all-new TRD Desert Air Intake. Designed to sustain consistent off-road performance no matter how silty or dirty the terrain gets, the TRD Desert Air Intake takes the 278-horsepower 3.5L V6 engine’s air intake away from dust that hovers inside the wheel well (where traditional air intakes are located) during off-road operation. This allows for air ingestion to occur in a cleaner space above the windshield, therefore, helping to benefit filter longevity and, ultimately, engine health.
       
      Tundra TRD Pro: Boastful New Additions
       
      Tundra TRD Pro also gets its fair share of new features for 2019. Of course, Tundra is equipped with new Fox 2.5-inch front shocks that boast beefy 46 mm pistons. The TRD-tuned springs provide an additional 2 inches of front lift, and front wheel travel is increased more than 1.5 inches. The front shocks feature 11 bypass zones (7 compression, 4 bypass) to fine-tune damping performance for off-road romps while retaining composed on-road manners. The Tundra also employs 2.5-inch rear Fox shocks that feature an impressive 12 bypass zones (8 compression, 4 bypass). The rear shocks feature 2.5-inch piggyback reservoirs, and wheel travel is increased by more than 2 inches in the rear.  
       
      Taking a cue from little brother, big bro Tundra gets new Rigid Industries LED fog lights for improved visibility on and off the highway, in a variety of weather conditions. Tundra also features LED headlights with LED accent lights and a unique black treatment. A new TOYOTA grille plus new hood scoop add style to Tundra’s brawny front end. Out back, TRD Pro stamping is found on the bed’s rear quarter panels.
       
      New 18-inch BBS forged-aluminum, five-spoke satin black wheels are featured on Tundra, which reduce un-sprung mass 3.35 lbs. per wheel (13.4 lbs. total) to improve cornering response and overall ride quality. The new wheels are wrapped in Michelin P275/65R18 all-terrain tires to provide a sure footing in dirt and on pavement.
       
      Inside, TRD Pro logos garnish the driver and front passenger leather-trimmed seats, while red stitching accents the dash, seats and armrests. TRD Pro floor mats, shift knob and a center-console emblem help complete the distinctive look. Providing added growl on the highway and the trail is a dual TRD Pro exhaust, which is fitted with new Black Chrome exhaust tips. A TRD Pro 1/4-inch skid plate sporting signature red Toyota lettering is found underneath the front end. Tundra TRD Pro will offer an available moonroof.
       
      4Runner TRD Pro: The Legend Grows
       
      4Runner needs no introduction. The iconic SUV is one of the most legendary off-road vehicles in Toyota’s history. For 2019, TRD Pro takes 4Runner’s world-renowned trail capability to the next level.
       
      4Runner’s Fox shocks not only enhance its off-road performance but, paired with the TRD-tuned front springs, the package lifts its front 1 inch compared to other grades, while also providing nearly 1 inch of additional wheel travel. The 2.5-inch front shocks employ 46 mm pistons and include 7 bypass zones (4 compression, 3 rebound). In the rear, the 2.5-inch Fox shocks feature 11 bypass zones (7 compression, 4 rebound) to fine-tune the low- and high-speed compression, and 2-inch piggyback reservoirs house additional oil to retain damping performance when it’s needed most. A unique TRD roost shield offers additional protection for the inverted shock design in the rear.
       
      4Runner adds a new roof rack for stashing additional gear outside of the cabin (say, dirty gear or laundry after a weekend camping trip).The 1/4-inch-thick front skid plate also sports new red TRD lettering. 4Runner features 17-inch matte-black TRD alloy wheels with an offset change to provide it with nearly a 1-inch wider track front and rear for added stability. Nitto Terra Grappler P265/70R17 A/T tires provide all-terrain performance for whatever the situation demands.
       
      Like Tacoma, 4Runner TRD Pro passengers can jam to tunes from a new-for-2019 standard Entune Premium JBL Audio with Integrated Navigation and App Suite. Other interior appointments include TRD Pro floor mats, TRD shift knob, and red-stitched Softex seats with red TRD logos on the front headrests. Additional TRD Pro exterior features include LED fog lights, blacked-out TOYOTA grille, and projector-beam headlights with smoked trim.
       
      Even on the Most Capable, Safety is Paramount
       
      Even though capability and toughness are at the core of the TRD Pro Series, safety is still the utmost priority. All three TRD Pro models feature the Star Safety System, which includes Vehicle Stability Control (VSC), Traction Control (TRAC), Anti-lock Brake System (ABS), Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist (BA) and Smart Stop Technology (SST).
       
      Tundra and Tacoma come standard with Toyota Safety Sense P (TSS-P), which features Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection (PCS w/PD), Lane Departure Alert (LDA) with Sway Warning System (SWS), Automatic High Beams (AHB) and high-speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC).
    • By William Maley
      January is usually not a strong month for car sales as it just after the holidays and people don't have the money to buy a new car. This is reflected in our January sales figure ticker where most automakers post small increases and decreases. There were some automakers that posted some surprising numbers. Nissan reported a 10 percent increase and Toyota noted an impressive 16.8 percent rise. The two automakers credit their utility as a key reason for the rise. But Bloomberg reports there is another reason for these rises.
      Pulling data from Cox Automotive, Bloomberg found out that fleet deliveries for the month rose 46 percent for Nissan and 69 percent for Toyota. Most of the sales came from rental car companies. 
      “If you want to claim 10 percent market share, that’s a way to do it. The danger is that you create a large number of late-model used cars that will compete with your new cars and bring down prices and profits,” said Maryann Keller, an independent auto industry consultant.
      A number of automakers have been turning away from fleet sales for this very reason. GM which has been a poster child for fleet sales has been cutting back.
      Toyota spokeswoman Amanda Roark told Bloomberg that fleet deliveries will be lower during the second half of this year and will likely make up "about 10 percent of its total U.S. sales in 2018." Judy Wheeler, Nissan vice president of U.S. sales explained the increase in fleet sales was due to them clearing out 2017 models to make way for 2018 models.
      “It’s really just a timing situation for us,” she said.
      It needs to be noted that Nissan has been increasing their sales to fleets within the past year.
      Source: Bloomberg

      View full article
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