Teachers Strike

[Cory Wolfe]

Brookville Area School District teachers have gone on strike, therefore delaying school until sometime in October. This means that I have an extra month of summer and will not get out of school until almost July. My school has no A/C... It's going to be a living hell. Otherwise, I can't really complain and do think teachers are underpaid.

[Black and Blue Landscaper]

teachers are very underpaid people... the "pro athelets" should get a cut on their pay (except hockey players) and the teachers should get the remaining of that cut.... and i know there is something about teachers and foriegn car purchases, i read it somewhere dont remember what it said, but i agree completely

[NOS2006]

Yes, teachers are underpaid. But then again they get about 3 months off of work during the year http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[mustang84]

My mom is an elementary school teacher at a small school district, and teachers are VERY underpaid. She's been working there for about 25 years now but her pay has been frozen at the same level since the mid 90s. It doesn't matter how much experience you have...once you reach that point, there's no more climbing further up the ladder. Considering the upcoming shortage of teachers in the near future due to all the retirees and low interest in education among young people, you'd think the government would start raising the salaries before our schools go to crap.

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, I just heard that we may begin going on Saturdays to be out be June 15th according to my bro's Football coach. If this is the case, I may break my old record of missing like 17 days in one school year. I refuse to go on Saturdays. No way, no how. F**k that. I'd rather roast...

[Paolino]

Yes, teachers are underpaid. But then again they get about 3 months off of work during the year http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[post="10379"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, I read a study once, that with all the work they do outside of work, before work, after work, on weekends, during holiday breaks, etc., teachers actually work the equivalent of a full-time employee, with 2 weeks vacation/year. They just do it in 9 months instead of 12.

[z28luvr01]

Well, I read a study once, that with all the work they do outside of work, before work, after work, on weekends, during holiday breaks, etc., teachers actually work the equivalent of a full-time employee, with 2 weeks vacation/year.  They just do it in 9 months instead of 12.

[post="10423"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I hear that....on her "vacations", my sister (a HS art teacher) is usually either grading projects and/or tests, writing out interim reports, writing out a syllabus, getting materials ready for the next project, putting together a list of supplies for her annual budget, or just coming down from a rather bad day with the students. It's a job that you have to take home with you. I envy anyone that can do that, because I sure can't.

[razoredge]

Teaching is a good gig. All teachers live above the average wage of their communities. Its a 7 hour work day. Its a 5 day work week. All the paid holidays +. Christmas vacation, winter/spring recess, 180 days folks thats it, 180 days. They have the slack time during study hall duty to do the grading, a little time at night but they did only have a 7 hour work day. 8-3 around here. I came from a schoolin family. Many relatives teaching and my father was eventually an administrator. My sister became a teacher, she told me at the end of the first year, I should look into it. First few years is more work because they are learning and getting their system down, after that its same thing year after year. they know the program, the assignments, the tests and quiz's, the methods how to deal with the different personalities. Sorry I dont feel sorry for teachers, they have a good gig. Schools have doubled and in some districts tripled their income from taxes in the past 15 years. It doesnt get any better than that. Come on 45,000 and the summer off? 65,000 and the summer off ? The rural teachers are pissing and moaning because they dont make the income the teachers do from the burbs, well guess what, the country folks dont have the stupid money the people from the burbs do either. Quit trying to raise our standards when we dont have the means to do it. We couldnt afford the annual taxes on those burbian houses let alone the mortgage, dont expect to live burbian standards and live in the sticks, same goes for the inner cities I would guess.

[Paolino]

Teaching is a good gig. All teachers live above the average wage of their communities. Its a 7 hour work day. Its a 5 day work week. All the paid holidays +. Christmas vacation, winter/spring recess, 180 days folks thats it, 180 days. They have the slack time during study hall duty to do the grading, a little time at night but they did only have a 7 hour work day. 8-3 around here.

I came from a schoolin family. Many relatives teaching and my father was eventually an administrator. My sister became a teacher, she told me at the end of the first year, I should look into it.

First few years is more work because they are learning and getting their system down, after that its same thing year after year. they know the program, the assignments, the tests and quiz's, the methods how to deal with the different personalities.

Sorry I dont feel sorry for teachers, they have a good gig. Schools have doubled and in some districts tripled their income from taxes in the past 15 years. It doesnt get any better than that.

Come on 45,000 and the summer off? 65,000 and the summer off ?

The rural teachers are pissing and moaning because they dont make the income the teachers do from the burbs, well guess what, the country folks dont have the stupid money the people from the burbs do either. Quit trying to raise our standards when we dont have the means to do it. We couldnt afford the annual taxes on those burbian houses let alone the mortgage, dont expect to live burbian standards and live in the sticks, same goes for the inner cities I would guess.

[post="10474"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Okay, well, I disagree with the above. I can't afford a freaking apartment's rent on 45,000/year. Some locations need more money than that to survive. I would just be able to barely pay rent and food bills--much less car, auto insurance, apartment insurance, clothes, supplies (which, by the way--schools NEVER give you even half of what you use--it's not uncommon for a teacher to spend a few hundred dollars out of pocket to get what they need to do the job)... summers off? No a/c when it's 95 degrees in June? Summers have to be worked because you can't afford not to? Dealing with snotty kids and their parents? It's not as cut and dry as you think.

[razoredge]

Paulie I kinda covered some of that here if you interpret it as I meant it. "The rural teachers are pissing and moaning because they dont make the income the teachers do from the burbs, well guess what, the country folks dont have the stupid money the people from the burbs do either. Quit trying to raise our standards when we dont have the means to do it. We couldnt afford the annual taxes on those burbian houses let alone the mortgage, dont expect to live burbian standards and live in the sticks, same goes for the inner cities I would guess." We dont have a combined income of 45,000. Rent is high because of school taxes - ? Like I've said 3-4 hundred a month right there for taxes. I couldnt deal with the kids, thats why I dont teach, I am a good teacher however, but have no tolerance for BS. I can deal with bugs and dirt and grease and wood chips, thats why I do what I do, I dont think many teachers could deal with the crap I deal with and certainly dont have the overhead, ultra demanding must do's and must do nows, always learning, new skills, I could go on but my point is teachers have a pretty slick life. There must be 6 or seven teachers in my family some of whom are professors. Yep 2 professors, 4 school teachers and my fathers administrators job. Then I know so many of my fathers former facilty. Most retired now, still kinda young, traveling the world, mowing the lawn, that kind of stuff. Many great people amounst them, still I dont feel sorry for them and I dont think they expect me to.

[Cory Wolfe]

Razor... I don't understand you. You say that about teachers yet you defend UAW workers... :blink:

[CaddyXLR-V]

Razor... I don't understand you. You say that about teachers yet you defend UAW workers... :blink:

[post="10810"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thats what I was thinking. I think teachers are underpaid, and UAW is overpaid. But I guess since teachers dont get dirty and dont do physical labor they should be paid less right? Edited September 7, 2005 by CaddyXLR-V

[Chief]

Some of the replies to this thread make me laugh. Teachers deserve a little more respect than most people give them. They do have the job of educating the people of this country. . no small task. The market for teachers, at least in the state I live in, is getting smaller by the year, and we are upon a shortage, so guess what, homeowners are going to be paying more for teachers because nobody wants to be an underpaid (YES! I SAID UNDERPAID!) babysitter who is also supposed to be their teacher, mother, father, uncle, grandparent, counselor, protector, and role model. Oh, and proof that we are underpaid. A babysitter gets paid, say, $5/hour. Well, I personally have 105 students. Lets do some math. $5/hr X 7 (hours) = $35 $35 X 105 = $3,675 (per day) $3,675 X 5 = $18,375 (per week) $18,375 X 7 = $128,625 (per year) What I make per year $52,559 I only included 7 months because I know you guys hate paying us for all of the holidays we supposedly get (I spend mine planning and grading papers) and not paying us for our "summers off" we are required to spend taking workshops and professional development classes, which comes straight out of our pockets by the way. So basically, yes. I'd rather be a babysitter. As you can see its far more lucrative than the career I chose. Its also a career I do not regret choosing, and I am not complaining about my salary, but I do think that others not in education should not take teachers for granted. If it wasnt for teachers you wouldnt be where you are today. Mister Chief Middle School Science Teacher Edited September 10, 2005 by Chief

[razoredge]

Hey Chief, no disrespect, like I said I grew up around many teachers, they were everywhere in my life. BUT- that old babysitter routine is old and very tacky, I heard it so many times, its like the teachers swan song. "lets do the baby sitter math" 52,000 is excellent pay.........is it not?????????? if not, I really need a raise because its more than double anything Ive ever made working 50 weeks a year. Its a salary, its 52,000 per year, its not dont get paid during summer. Its 52,000 per year. then you have no benefits......right........ <_< , so the package = how much? Ok never mind Chief, you know and I know that most people dont want to be teachers anymore because there is no disipline in schools, children and teenagers are unruley and no one can deal with it because, well they cant deal with it. Children have the rights today, children rule and adults hang their heads. There are lots of people that would like to make that kind of money and benes, its got nothing to do with the money, its the modern rules and laws that protect nasty kids. Black and Caddy :rolleyes: good little smoke screen but, I dont recall saying teachers should give back money........did I ?????????? Must have :unsure: I think I said it was a good gig and I dont feel sorry for them. I think I said their job includes lots and lots of time off. I know, when my father was a teacher he worked for a tree surgeon during vacations, but he also built his own home, himself, plus a camp and various other things like going to college for his masters to become an adminstrator. These are not things that are possible for most other occupations especially the majority population that lives below the standard of the teachers that work in their childrens school. I would like to leave everyone with another old time famous cleche giving by school systems at budget voting time. "Give us a raise because its an investment in your childrens future." but....if you paid attention in school you would know how to read between the lines and see that it really says.... "give us a raise so we can invest in our future" :o No offence Chief and Paulie, just putting things in perspective. Onces again I have known many great people that were teachers and other various duties in the school system as well as a few college people. I did not say teachers suck and should be destroyed and should work for the wages of India, Korea, China so their schools "can be competitive" Hey!!!!!!! Theres an idea.........oh never mind.

[razoredge]

BTW Chief - you teach 105 students every hour ? Sorry I had to call you on that one. Wanna take your school budget and divide it by student population and then we'll talk. It makes college look cheap. I had a thought about a slogan for the UAW "Buy American built cars for more, because it will be an investment in Americas future" Would that one be a lie ? Is there something between the lines that Im not reading there ? :unsure:

[Cory Wolfe]

Black and Caddy :rolleyes: good little smoke screen but, I dont recall saying teachers should give back money........did I ?????????? Must have :unsure:

Give back money? If you mean getting paid less... Not directly, but I sense that you implied it. If you didn't... you must think UAW workers have it good too, right?

Look, I'm just confused because this seems 'oxymoron' like, IMO... So, can you clear some things up?

Then again... You seem to be against careers that require schooling. :huh: :D

[razoredge]

Give back money? If you mean getting paid less... Not directly, but I sense that you implied it. If you didn't... you must think UAW workers have it good too, right?

Look, I'm just confused because this seems 'oxymoron' like, IMO... So, can you clear some things up?

Then again... You seem to be against careers that require schooling. :huh: :D

[post="11161"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wow, now Im against careers that require schooling ey ? Or is it that Im against the predjudice that comes from those that have had "schooling" that think those that havent deserve little - regardless. Or that there is no "schooling" that goes on outside of "school".

Did I say UAW workers have it bad ???????????? Was I calling for more money for UAW workers ?????????? Hows your teachers doing with you ? Your reading comprehension seems about as good as my spelling. Just read what I say and absorb it, dont put words in my mouth.

Any posts I have made regarding Unions have been about Unions, organized labor and decent incomes for all contributors to society, not UAW, I stay away from that because I know nothing about the auto industry. So pulling the UAW out and throwing it at me is BS. I noticed it was kinda like some people thought I was UAW or even manufacturing, but Im not. Im about decent money for all decent contributing Americans.

Once again just incase it went over the head. I think teachers make damn good money. They are also the strongest Union in NY State.

Do a little research and find out what some of your teachers earn and compare it to your parents and other neighbors. Teaching is a good gig. If you have ability to transfer knowledge so that is can be absorbed and the ability to tolerate ignorance and many other human games, teaching will bring you a good life.

Still confused I suppose? :unsure:

[Cory Wolfe]

Okay... I probably came off in a bad. So some of this might be my fault.

Wow, now Im against careers that require schooling ey ? Or is it that Im against the predjudice that comes from those that have had "schooling" that think those that havent deserve little - regardless. Or that there is no "schooling" that goes on outside of "school".

Ooookay... :blink: I kind of meant what I said in jest. Hence the smilies.

Did I say UAW workers have it bad ???????????? Was I calling for more money for UAW workers ?????????? Hows your teachers doing with you ? Your reading comprehension seems about as good as my spelling. Just read what I say and absorb it, dont put words in my mouth.

Oookay... Once again. Did I say that you said all that? Nooo... I don't think sooo. Therefore, I didn't put words in your mouth. However, I'm reading what you're saying, but having a hard time absorbing it as it doesn't make sense to me. To me, it seems that you support the UAW, yet not teachers. Now, you didn't say that, but that's the vibe I am getting. I would think that if someone thought teachers had it good, they would think the UAW had it good too. Still, going by memory, I think I recall that you supported what the UAW got and didn't think they deserved cuts. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I remember. Sadly, I can't look back and make sure since we're on new boards.

Any posts I have made regarding Unions have been about Unions, organized labor and decent incomes for all contributors to society, not UAW, I stay away from that because I know nothing about the auto industry. So pulling the UAW out and throwing it at me is BS. I noticed it was kinda like some people thought I was UAW or even manufacturing, but Im not. Im about decent money for all decent contributing Americans.

Then why is it that there are many posts by you in the old threads about the UAW that are the opposite of the people bashing it? Huh? I don't understand. If it's what you say... then why the hell did you post in the first place?

Still confused I suppose?

To answer your question... Yes, I am. I asked for you to clear some things up and you twisted what I said out of proportion and put it against me; all while being stubborn. All I want is clearity and to understand where your at. I'm not getting that... Okay?

Damn... I need start taking drugs or something... :wacko:

[razoredge]

OK Ill make this simple hopefully. Ill do it as a comparision and you can be the judge. I cnat put any more effort into this because its not my kind of game. Please compare the attitude and what I said in my first post on this topic which I will copy and paste. Compare that to some of the crap you may be able to remember people saying about UAW workers and "what the deserve" and "what should be done to them" , ect. I cant copy and paste those peoples comments because they are gone but I ewouldnt put the effort into it anyhow. I dont think what I said here indicates me wanting the death of teachers, death of teacher unions, teachers thrown out in the streets because they cant afford rent or their mortgages any more because they are overpaid. If you absorbed anything that was writtin by the anti blue collar freaks posting on those Union topics I think you would find what I said here to be quite tasteful, and not negitive. I can say no more, if this is the same as the crap that was being posted on those anti Union and anti "non educated" blue collar topics, I must be having flashbacks to the seventies " Teaching is a good gig. All teachers live above the average wage of their communities. Its a 7 hour work day. Its a 5 day work week. All the paid holidays +. Christmas vacation, winter/spring recess, 180 days folks thats it, 180 days. They have the slack time during study hall duty to do the grading, a little time at night but they did only have a 7 hour work day. 8-3 around here. I came from a schoolin family. Many relatives teaching and my father was eventually an administrator. My sister became a teacher, she told me at the end of the first year, I should look into it. First few years is more work because they are learning and getting their system down, after that its same thing year after year. they know the program, the assignments, the tests and quiz's, the methods how to deal with the different personalities. Sorry I dont feel sorry for teachers, they have a good gig. Schools have doubled and in some districts tripled their income from taxes in the past 15 years. It doesnt get any better than that. Come on 45,000 and the summer off? 65,000 and the summer off ? The rural teachers are pissing and moaning because they dont make the income the teachers do from the burbs, well guess what, the country folks dont have the stupid money the people from the burbs do either. Quit trying to raise our standards when we dont have the means to do it. We couldnt afford the annual taxes on those burbian houses let alone the mortgage, dont expect to live burbian standards and live in the sticks, same goes for the inner cities I would guess. " A construction worker needs to work 60 hours a week all year round to make the money teachers do. Building the world is just as important as educating the world. In fact if you studied it there is alot of education to be found in building. Every cog in the box is important. Hell, your all crying for 6 speeds :-)

[Chief]

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
Hey Chief, no disrespect, like I said I grew up around many teachers, they were everywhere in my life. BUT- that old babysitter routine is old and very tacky, I heard it so many times, its like the teachers swan song. "lets do the baby sitter math"

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 8, 2005, 8:24 PM']
Hey razor, no disrespect, but I did not belittle your UAW workers at all. You did, however, disrespect mine and Paolino's entire profession. Those are your views, and that is fine. However you make it seem like they all complain about not getting paid enough, and not getting enough benefits. That is not true. They aren't all that way. Maybe they are in your rural area. They are not in mine.

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
52,000 is excellent pay.........is it not?????????? if not, I really need a raise because its more than double anything Ive ever made working 50 weeks a year.

Its a salary, its 52,000 per year, its not dont get paid during summer. Its 52,000 per year.

then you have no benefits......right........ <_< , so the package = how much? Ok never mind

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 8, 2005, 8:24 PM']
I am not complaining about my salary. I didnt say anywhere in the post that it is not enough to live off of, or that I should get more. I never said that. My salary is beans compared to the seven plus figures that I am worth. I don't do it for the money. Some teachers, however, are not as fortunate as I am. Just because they chose that career, and do what they do for our country and society, shouldnt mean they should take a vow of poverty. I dont believe that it is a bunch of BS that teachers say this. In the state where I live, teachers have a good chunk of their money go into their retirement, so that is about $10,000 less per year to live on. That is a big chunk if you are starting out making $30,000/year. So, dont judge me as a typical teacher. My financial situation is completely different, and I am not the type of person who wants anyone to feel sorry for them, so you can just leave me out of the general teacher's conception you have right there.

Yes, the job has very good benefits. I'm lucky enough to be in a suburban district with great benefits. I never even mentioned my benefits because I take it for granted

Oh, another thing about my salary. That includes a master's degree that I paid for myself, as well as all of my professional development classes that I paid for myself. No districts around here help teachers improve their careers or get their graduate degree. I paid $40,000 for that, and I am required to get it in my district, so that is another expense added to a teacher's budget.

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
Chief, you know and I know that most people dont want to be teachers anymore because there is no disipline in schools, children and teenagers are unruley and no one can deal with it because, well they cant deal with it. Children have the rights today, children rule and adults hang their heads. There are lots of people that would like to make that kind of money and benes, its got nothing to do with the money, its the modern rules and laws that protect nasty kids.

I think I said it was a good gig and I dont feel sorry for them. I think I said their job includes lots and lots of time off. I know, when my father was a teacher he worked for a tree surgeon during vacations, but he also built his own home, himself, plus a camp and various other things like going to college for his masters to become an adminstrator. These are not things that are possible for most other occupations especially the majority population that lives below the standard of the teachers that work in their childrens school.

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
You know, you talk about summers off and holidays off. You must not have read what I had to say about professional development classes that take the entire summer and all of the preparation that teachers do in their free time, not to mention the money out of their pocket they spend on children who do not have what they need for school. Yes, that includes clothes, lunch, hair brushes, shampoo, toothpaste, toothbrushed, etc. I guess that is just "old and tacky" too since you make it sound like my entire argument is an excuse for teachers to get paid what they do. Of course, just because one wants to become a teacher, does not mean they should take a vow of poverty.

Another thing, summers off does not mean no work. I've spent many hours in professional development classes that were required for me to keep my certificate current. I still have to do those stupid classes to keep my certificate current, even with a master's degree. It will never end. Some of those workshops are 8 hours a day, and if you take 3-4 a summer when you are away from the classrom it costs about $2,000 to $4,000 as well as makes you busier than you are when you have the kids in the classroom. So I woulnd't exactly call that summers off, at least not in the state I live in with such strict certification rules.

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
I would like to leave everyone with another old time famous cleche giving by school systems at budget voting time.

"Give us a raise because its an investment in your childrens future."

but....if you paid attention in school you would know how to read between the lines and see that it really says....

"give us a raise so we can invest in our future" :o

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 8, 2005, 8:24 PM']
What is wrong with teachers wanting to invest in their own future? I know I want what is best for me. I think Paolino wants what is best for him. What is wrong with that? Doesnt everyone want what is best for themselves?

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
No offence Chief and Paulie, just putting things in perspective.

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 8, 2005, 8:24 PM']
Yeah, your perspective. It strikes me as odd that you grew up in a "schooling family", yet you seem to take a stance against teachers in your area. That surprises me. Maybe your local districts are screwed up. I dont know.

Onces again I have known many great people that were teachers and other various duties in the school system as well as a few college people.

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 8, 2005, 8:24 PM']
What does the fact that you know people in education have to do with your attacks at the teaching profession?

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:26 PM']
I did not say teachers suck and should be destroyed and should work for the wages of India, Korea, China so their schools "can be competitive" Hey!!!!!!! Theres an idea.........oh never mind.

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 7, 2005, 8:24 PM']
Nobody said you said teachers suck out right. You just generalized teachers as a whining, complaining group of people who supposedly have their summers off, every holiday off, good benefits, and tons of free time." As a teacher, I wanna know where all that free time is, because I sure havent had any since I went back to teaching this fall.

[quote name='razoredge' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:34 PM']
BTW Chief - you teach 105 students every hour ? Sorry I had to call you on that one. Wanna take your school budget and divide it by student population and then we'll talk. It makes college look cheap.

[quote name='Chief' date=' Sept 8, 2005, 8:24 PM']

I did not say that I taught 105 students every hour. You must have misunderstood my word problem. I have 105 students in all of my classes that I teach one hour per day. I have 7 classes because I choose not to take on any prep periods. I thought you could figure that out being so smart as to talk down to me and Paulie about our profession. Oh, and next time, don't single me out. I was just trying to prove my point just like you were, and I never mentioned your name, so if you want to "call me out on the carpet, do it in a PM."

Oh, and this is just my opinions. If it wasnt for teachers, the man who invented the car probably wouldn't have learned enough science, math, and engineering to do so. So, basically, if it wasnt for teachers, there would be no UAW because there would be no cars for people to build, hence no union to protect those workers.

Chief Edited September 9, 2005 by Chief

[razoredge]

Woa ! Talk about making assumptions and accusations. Attacking ????? Damn and I wasnt even pissed off, a teachers strike does piss me off however I quess, but I wasnt pissed off. Didnt even piss actually. I thought I was nice, I guess saying teachers live well above the average income of the familys they teach was an attack ? Tell you what, how about showing me one attack that I wrote, just the sentence please not complete quotes from paragraphs. I need to visually see one of these attacks. I addressed you because I was responding to what you said, same as I would in a conservation. I call that respect but I was probably brought up wrong. I would never and do never PM anyone, thats coy and something I consider wrong. An oath/vow of Poverty?????? Wheres that, that they take the vow of poverty ? 40 thousand for a degree is nothing compared to 10 years of being paid 10 thousand less than you are worth which is common throughout the country. Im worth 7 figures too but hey no one knows it. Im sorry you need to do that certificate BS, that is going on in nearly every profession in the country, it is just another form of pick pocketing, someone needs your money thats all. Being how somehow I became the subject of such anger for calling teaching as I see it and believe it is I must believe I was totally wrong. Ok teaching is a shit gig, vows of poverty, nothing but long hours, work work work, always vote yes for the school budget, even when it takes $500,000 more to run the system this year that it did last. Dont question it, just believe it is an investment in your childrens future, so what if your monthly school taxes are more than a mortgage was 15 years ago, no big deal, theres nothing up. I am truely sorry I grew up on the inside, I should not have spoken, apparenty the life I saw and lived in was kinda twilight zone. I believe those teachers are doing the right thing F'in up the school year, its that investment in your childrens baby sitting dollars hard at work. Wonder what those teachers did all summer ? Maybe they should have been applying at the Burbs during lunch time at their summer classes. They were probably busy shopping for clothing for their students...... Now I suppose that could be considered an attack but hey "Im soooooooooo smart" OK !

[Cory Wolfe]

:huh: ...Yeah, I would call that an attack on Chief. As for your response to my post... Well, you tried and that is what matters. Seems like you just regurgitated the same crap... but it was an effort, none-the-less. Another thing, though, I know what you meant by your last statement. My parents work, and work hard, but still don't make what teachers make. However, they never put an effort into a career. They never went to college and it shows when they get paid. Their poor because of their choices; meaning I'm poor and I don't like it. As for teaching... alot of effort is needed to do it. I know because I have an aunt who is. Guess what? She goes through what Chief goes through. She also put her life into teaching. Something my parents never did for anything. With that said, teachers are underpaid. She knows it, I know it, Chief knows it. My parents don't think so and neither do you. Cioncidence maybe? Edited September 9, 2005 by blackviper8891

[Guest Josh]

Mister Chief
Middle School Science Teacher

[post="10968"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think teachers are severly underpaid here in Michigan, especially metro-Detroit however I will say one thing....


I'VE MISSED THE CHIEFISM's!!!!

[CaddyXLR-V]

So many arguements made about how UAW should get so much, they have every right to strike and whine about their job. They get 95% of their pay even when there are no cars for them to build. If we invest in them, does that invest in our future as a society? To pay a worker $50,000+ for a job that requires no more than a high school education, who blames the company that pays them for every problem, and they should be paid more? But a teacher, who has the responsibility of teaching, and raising our very future, is living the high life with $52,000? A teacher should be able to invest in his future, isnt that the point of getting paid? But by having higher paid teachers, maybe we could also get higher quality teachers. Getting paid $50,000 after 6+ years of college is hardly any incentive to do the best they can do. There is a shortage of teachers, yet a surplus of line workers. Economics suggest one is overpaid, and the other is underpaid. I'm sorry for thinking someone who has the commitment to sit in college for an additional number of years after high school to further their skills and education should be paid more. I realize their are people out there that dont need college to be smart, and can be smarter than someone who has a degree. But the majority of the population doesnt have that gift, and if they want to earn more, they will need a degree.

[razoredge]

Yea, well your all still spewing the same crap and saying I said and defended things I did not. Now I was just accused of not putting any effort into my life. Seems I was way kinder than the rest. I never said anything about taking from teachers, never. I defended blue collar workers for being said that they should take cuts, even comments about how they should be paid little. Typical humanity at its best. Only caring about your own position and screw everyone else. I have nothing to gain either way with the Unions but I do defend blue collar work. Let me remind everyone again that I have worked production almost all of my entire life. For those of you that dont seem to know what that is, and screw it into meaning Im a factory worker, its when you get paid for only what you do. When things are down there is no income. The harder you work the more you make, if you are slow paced like the rest of the world you will starve. Still at extreme pace I never got my share but I did it and never striked or demanded more. So get the fuck off my back, I did not put down teachers but I have had to listen to plenty of putting down, just like most of the above anti me posts. Grow up and read straight without the twist.

[Cremazie]

What I make per year $52,559

I only included 7 months because I know you guys hate paying us for all of the holidays we supposedly get (I spend mine planning and grading papers) and not paying us for our "summers off" we are required to spend taking workshops and professional development classes, which comes straight out of our pockets by the way.

So basically, yes.  I'd rather be a babysitter.  As you can see its far more lucrative than the career I chose.  Its also a career I do not regret choosing, and I am not complaining about my salary, but I do think that others not in education should not take teachers for granted.  If it wasnt for teachers you wouldnt be where you are today. 

Mister Chief
Middle School Science Teacher

[post="10968"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If I worked near home that is pretty much what I would make per year working 50 weeks.. 50 hours avg. week! Edited September 9, 2005 by Cremazie

[mustang84]

I'm not really going to get into this whole argument too much, but I'll just say that my mom who works at a school district with about 400 kids is making around 33,000 per year and there are talks of the school district closing or consolidating in five years since enrollment is dropping. The flight out of rural areas and the budget cuts are killing the quality of life of some of the smaller towns around where I live. Our teachers don't get the respect they deserve and Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy is making it even harder for small school districts to survive. Suburban schools may be doing great, but inner city and rural districts are in bad shape with no sign of getting better. I was lucky enough to go to a school district that was large enough to get decent funding, but all the other districts around me are a mess financially....I feel for the communities and teachers there.

[Cory Wolfe]

Now I was just accused of not putting any effort into my life.

Did I say that? About my parents, yes. You, no. I don't know much about your work life other than that you never went through college. From the sounds of it, you're doing pretty good for not doing so. My parents are stuck making about $30,000 a year combined... I don't want to end up like them. That's why I believe going to college is the only way to have a decent life. It almost garantees it. Which brings me to the "Cioncidence maybe?" comment that probably confused you. I meant about college beliefs and blue collar-white collar beliefs. That's it and if I have once again get your beliefs wrong, I'm sorry. I'm going off memory and implication.

I'm not really going to get into this whole argument too much, but I'll just say that my mom who works at a school district with about 400 kids is making around 33,000 per year and there are talks of the school district closing or consolidating in five years since enrollment is dropping. The flight out of rural areas and the budget cuts are killing the quality of life of some of the smaller towns around where I live. Our teachers don't get the respect they deserve and Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy is making it even harder for small school districts to survive. Suburban schools may be doing great, but inner city and rural districts are in bad shape with no sign of getting better. I was lucky enough to go to a school district that was large enough to get decent funding, but all the other districts around me are a mess financially....I feel for the communities and teachers there.

That's the situation here in Brookville. I think, but I'm not sure, teachers here generally get paid around $25,000-$35,000.

[Chief]

Wow, angry response. I dunno why you are angry with all the swear words in your post. You attacked and belittled Paolino's and my entire profession. You don't have to be angry when you attack and belittle someone or something about someone. You just have to use generalizations about a large group of people. I never said you attacked me. I said you called me out on the carpet, just like you said you did in your post. Obviously you did not understand my math problem. If I had 105 students per class I would have over 700 students in one day. That would have changed my "cliche" math problem. Also, for someone who has heard about that babysitter thing many times, and having it get old, you sure did take alot of time in looking at that math problem to misunderstand it enough to find something to nail me on.

I will not take the time to tell you in my own words how you attacked and belittled my profession because I went one better and quoted you directly from your own post. So forget that. I'm not going to fall into the heresay trap of accusations and assumptions. I didn't assume anything in my response to your posts that called me out by name numerous times. I quoted from you directly to keep from that, and now you ask me to make assumptions. Make up your mind. sir.

I believe you also said in your post you have a seven figure worth. If you really have that much worth then your argument is nil because you have enough money to pay the taxes on your home. It shouldn't even be an issue.

There are very few jobs where you are trained to do that particular job in college. There are lawyers, doctors, teachers, engineers, pharmacists, and a few more I cannot think of right now. They all make subsantially more than teachers do, yet we are specifically trained for that job. I am not saying we should be paid the same amount as those jobs, but it does say something about a teacher's place in one's community. In most communities, the school is the center of the town. With No Child Left Behind (NCLB), schools are losing funding and having to close. This depletes the resources in the town and people move away because the town no longer offers a good education to their students. Mustang84 made a great point.

Chief

Woa ! Talk about making assumptions and accusations. Attacking ????? Damn and I wasnt even pissed off, a teachers strike does piss me off however I quess, but I wasnt pissed off. Didnt even piss actually. I thought I was nice, I guess saying teachers live well above the average income of the familys they teach was an attack ? Tell you what, how about showing me one attack that I wrote, just the sentence please not complete quotes from paragraphs. I need to visually see one of these attacks. I addressed you because I was responding to what you said, same as I would in a conservation. I call that respect but I was probably brought up wrong.  I would never and do never PM anyone, thats coy and something I consider wrong.  An oath/vow of Poverty?????? Wheres that, that they take the vow of poverty ? 40 thousand for a degree is nothing compared to 10 years of being paid 10 thousand less than you are worth which is common throughout the country. Im worth 7 figures too but hey no one knows it. Im sorry you need to do that certificate BS, that is going on in nearly every profession in the country, it is just another form of pick pocketing, someone needs your money thats all.

Being how somehow I became the subject of such anger for calling teaching as I see it and believe it is I must believe I was totally wrong.

Ok teaching is a shit gig, vows of poverty, nothing but long hours, work work work, always vote yes for the school budget, even when it takes $500,000 more to run the system this year that it did last. Dont question it, just believe it is an investment in your childrens future, so what if your monthly school taxes are more than a mortgage was 15 years ago, no big deal, theres nothing up.

I am truely sorry I grew up on the inside, I should not have spoken, apparenty the life I saw and lived in was kinda twilight zone. I believe those teachers are doing the right thing F'in up the school year, its that investment in your childrens baby sitting dollars hard at work. Wonder what those teachers did all summer ? Maybe they should have been applying at the Burbs during lunch time at their summer classes. They were probably busy shopping for clothing for their students...... Now I suppose that could be considered an attack but hey "Im soooooooooo smart"

OK !

[post="11663"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[Cremazie]

I'm not really going to get into this whole argument too much, but I'll just say that my mom who works at a school district with about 400 kids is making around 33,000 per year and there are talks of the school district closing or consolidating in five years since enrollment is dropping.  The flight out of rural areas and the budget cuts are killing the quality of life of some of the smaller towns around where I live.  Our teachers don't get the respect they deserve and Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy is making it even harder for small school districts to survive.  Suburban schools may be doing great, but inner city and rural districts are in bad shape with no sign of getting better.  I was lucky enough to go to a school district that was large enough to get decent funding, but all the other districts around me are a mess financially....I feel for the communities and teachers there.

[post="11797"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Whoa, well that is another ball game, there is no reason that they should be cutting services, small area or not, education is very important and the investments made should remain, don't downsize and undersize! And on the 33 grand a year, I may have said 50's are ok, but less than that is not good... teachers should not make any less than 50 grand/year, it is an important job

[razoredge]

Oh boy, I dont know how this topic came to this. I was not belittleing teaching but it appeared that way anyhow. Then I got caught between two attacks on two different issues, one where a few thought I felt Union workers deserve to make a good living and somehow I felt Teachers didnt and therefore had double standards. SO Im getting attacked and tied up in a knot by that misunderstanding and in the mean time I have two teachers hurt and all pissed off because - Im not really sure, probably because I said they only had 180 days. Well thats show up time anyhow but Im sure I should not have said 180 days because I do know life/job is not that simple. Still I believe "teaching is a good gig", now myself Id take that as a compliment. And yes teachers get alot of time off and have a short day. Now theres the supply thing, most jobs have some expenses but Ill assume because I was just told, teachers spend lots on supplys. Art teachers maybe, elementary school teachers maybe, but not in our district nor in the one I grew up in. All that stuff is in school and what isnt we are told to buy for our kids. Im not really sure what supplys are needed anyhow so Im a little lost on that one. I just dont remember needing much for Math, Social, English, art used supplys, Science used supplys for labs, I never saw Coach buy balls or gloves but maybe ? Shop or what they now call "technology" materials must be paid for by parents. AND I hope your not pissed off becasue of what I said about (" The rural teachers are pissing and moaning") wanting what suburban teachers earn because that is exactly what is going on in this rural school district. Every time budget gets kicked down we have to go to the "big" meeting and get told about how much the Suburban teachers make and how much the Suburban accessment rate is and how it will be an investment in our childrens future. Now this is an attack I suppose but could you tell me, does this mean that if a teacher doesnt get their raise they will give a poor quality education to the kids ? So Paulie ( I realize now that because I used his name I am attacking him) anyhow Paulie that is what I meant about your rent problem and having covered that in the paragraph about Rural/suburban. It simply meant the standard of living and cost of living are completely different according to areas. Please excuse that "attack and belittlement" I remember when once, awhile back Paulie mentions he was a teacher and I thought "cool" cause I can relate having been around so many but somehow we can forget all about that now, ey ? And I was asked by someone I cant mention because its an attack why Im so mad now and swearing, geeze, I could just about kick and storm all over the house about this crap, its gotten so out of control, doesnt anyone else get pissed off when what they say is turned into something it was not meant to be ? Thanks guys for your cooperation in trying to understand what I was really saying. Yet I must endure a massive amount of comments about deserving little because of that nasty college word. well Ill tell you I am a contributer, I have worked hard my whole life and I know many others that have and I just believe we all deserve a good living. [Is that the first time Ive said that ? Fair share thing ?] But yet no one can hear what Im saying. How about this, maybe this will sink in. Union blue collar workers make a good living and should, the rest of us below them are underpaid. Teachers make a good living and should and the rest of us below them are underpaid fair enough ? Your right Chief (sorry for the attack) I did not look at that "problem" you presented for more than 4 seconds and immeadiatly drew the conclusion that you did all students all hours. Now I look at it and it still throws me. "$5/hr X 7 (hours) = $35 $35 X 105 = $3,675 (per week) $3,675 X 5 = $18,375 (per week) $18,375 X 7 = $128,625 (per year)" It looks like you came up with 35 per student @ $5 for 7hr $35 X 105 gives per day for all students but I see you have (per week) but then you take what I assume is a per day fee and multiply that by a 5 day week and get another (per week) figure, now I see the problem that should be (per month) and then 7 months - OK well it threw me, I went no further than the 18,000 (per week) - God would someone just shoot me So do you figure teachers should make 130 thousand just to round it up ? wonder what our per thousand accessment rate would be then ? Total tax bill ? 600 a month ? Then what would become of rent ? See it just gets uglier by the minute but thats OK because somehow that is my fault at least in this topic. Then for the anti Union, blue collar folks (not the teachers) would this mean, assuming $52,000 is accurate for "labor" work, which it would be at 25 per hour, does this mean they are over paid or would they now be underpaid? because a teacher would be making somewhat better than 100% more :( See Im totally against that large of a separation for all worthy contributing "ants" or "puppets" as I have sometimes called us. Well at least now you all have determined I am Damien himself :unsure: Really thanks alot guys for all the great interpretations of my extremely toiled posting, thanks a friggin lot. I grossed 50 something one year, it was 60 percent overhead though (materials and supplies), oh well I felt like ...... well, Damien himself. :( Rock on brothers, I do so hope you love what you do for life, thats what its all about anyhow, just some of us can make decent living at our "port" and some of us struggle.

[Flybrian]

Shouldn't both of you be in school now? Just messin'

[CaddyXLR-V]

Union blue collar workers make a good living and should, the rest of us below them are underpaid.

Teachers make a good living and should and the rest of us below them are underpaid

fair enough ?

This is what I disagree with. Just because someone only makes $20,000 a year, that doesnt automatically make them underpaid. Someone can be underpaid who makes $100,000 a year, and someone else making $20,000 a year can be overpaid, depending on their job, and level of skill it takes to do their job.
We cant just raise salary of the person making $20,000 a year because he cant live on that much. There is a difference between underpaid, and not getting paid enough to live on. We cant just raise the pay of everyone to $50,000 a year. The only thing that would accomplish, is raising the price we pay for everything. If fast food workers start getting paid $50,000 per year, that burger that cost $1 before is now going to cost $4. So they may be making more, but the actual amount they can buy with their money will not change. Then the people that were making $50,000 before, would actually be able to buy less with their money.

[razoredge]

Thats sad Caddy, sounds like you would promote going back to the fuedal system. I mean I understand the burger flipper thing but the way you devalue human life and worth is just maybe death campish. There is all kinds of things about each and every job or task that some that can do others cant stand to do. You mention skill level like thats all its about and its so so arogant, some of the most highly skilled jobs are the low pay jobs. Some people attack we the lowly by saying we feel we are owed something but yet everyone that posts on these subjects will act like the college stay entitles them or that they are owed something just for that. You know its true just think about how many times its actually said. Well I spent ____ on my college education and Im underpaid. Well I could look at many of the college boys and wonder what makes them worth a cent and thats a for sure and anyone thats been around knows it. So you dont support pay raises for the lowly but Im sure your good with the latest real estate inflation. the doubled and triples school taxes, the doubled and tripled insurance rates, the doubled and tripled utility rates, the doubled gas price, ect, ect ? Its all so amusing. We just had a post about teachers wages having been "frozen" since sometime in the 90's well guess what, welcome to where so many others in America are, many have even been downgraded. I choose to have a much broader view of human worth and value than you. I believe I am a better man just for that alone. Thanks for the boost you have givin my outlook on myself, I was prior feeling kinda Damien ish. Perhaps you are the anti Christs son ? [that was not a dig that was the truth, I was feeling very lowly for all the horrible things I said about teachers to become the subject of so much redicule and wondering if I was worthy of the air I breath] Look this man is worht 20,000 and this one here is worth 10 times that interesting to be so so so special

[CaddyXLR-V]

Thats sad Caddy, sounds like you would promote going back to the fuedal system. I mean I understand the burger flipper thing but the way you devalue human life and worth is just maybe death campish. There is all kinds of things about each and every job or task that some that can do others cant stand to do. You mention skill level like thats all its about and its so so arogant, some of the most highly skilled jobs are the low pay jobs. Some people attack we the lowly by saying we feel we are owed something but yet everyone that posts on these subjects will act like the college stay entitles them or that they are owed something just for that. You know its true just think about how many times its actually said. Well I spent ____ on my college education and Im underpaid. Well I could look at many of the college boys and wonder what makes them worth a cent and thats a for sure and anyone thats been around knows it.

So you dont support pay raises for the lowly but Im sure your good with the latest real estate inflation. the doubled and triples school taxes, the doubled and tripled insurance rates, the doubled and tripled utility rates, the doubled gas price, ect, ect ?

Its all so amusing. We just had a post about teachers wages having been "frozen" since sometime in the 90's well guess what, welcome to where so many others in America are, many have even been downgraded.

I choose to have a much broader view of human worth and value than you. I believe I am a better man just for that alone. Thanks for the boost you have givin my outlook on myself, I was prior feeling kinda Damien ish. Perhaps you are the anti Christs son ?

[that was not a dig that was the truth, I was feeling very lowly for all the horrible things I said about teachers to become the subject of so much redicule and wondering if I was worthy of the air I breath]

Look this man is worht 20,000

and this one here is worth 10 times that

interesting to be so so so special

[post="12101"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You got all that from what I said? I wasnt talking about the worth or value of the person, I was talking about the value of the job being done. I didnt say they are scum because they make $20,000 a year. I said the job they do allows them $20,000 a year, for whatever reason. Maybe thats the job they choose because they dont care about making more, or having a more demanding job. Thats their choice. I didnt say they are scum for making that choice. We live in a capitalist economy. If you want to make enough money to make a living on, that is up to you. Never did I say a person making $100,000 a year is worth more, or a better person than someone making $20,000 a year. Not every person with a college degree should be entitled to make more money either. You twisted everything I said to reflect the person themselves, when I was specifically talking about the job they do. A job is only worth so much, and if thats not enough for you, get the skills needed for a job that pays enough.