Lightning Systems, Creator of Class 6 Zero Emission Powertrains gets first 50 Unit order

[David]

Lightning systems announced today with it's first 50 unit order the all new Chevrolet 6500XD Class 6 zero emission cab forward cargo truck. This truck is available in 19,501 to 26,000 pound GVWR. The truck has a 110 mile range and Zeem Solutions out of California is the first customer to purchase and put into city deliveries this truck.

The Chevrolet 6500XD offers a 295 horsepower motor with 2-speed Eaton automatic transmission providing 1,821 ft-lbs of torque in first gear with a 65 mph top speed, 5 year, 60,000 mile warranty  on the powertrain. The trucks come with regenerative braking, liquid-cooled lithium-ion battery system, and a DC fast charging system achieving full recharge from zero in 3 hours.

The trucks come with Lightning Analytics, a cloud-based analytics system that provides predictive maintenance, route scoring, range analysis, driver behavior and geofencing for maximizing range and efficiency. The analytics system provides fleets with real-time information allowing for peak efficiency in operating the truck fleet.

Lightning Systems Press Release

[balthazar]

Is that 110 miles loaded, unloaded or somewhere in between? Not a game-changing range.
Wonder how much this adds in price to a gas version?

[David]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Is that 110 miles loaded, unloaded or somewhere in between? Not a game-changing range.
Wonder how much this adds in price to a gas version?

According to the press release, 110 miles of a fully loaded truck. Focus is on inner city distribution with no nose or engine emissions. I think that is pretty good for moving up to 26,000 lbs.

Better than the last cab over electric truck we discussed that was used on the east coast by the newspaper industry.

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

According to the press release, 110 miles of a fully loaded truck.

I read the release twice; it did not specifically state that. Did I miss it twice?

[Robert Hall]

 

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I read the release twice; it did not specifically state that. Did I miss it twice?

I didn't see anything about the range being loaded vs unloaded, though this line implies some load--The new model will have an electric range of 110 miles depending on route and driver. 

A bit vague.  Looks like an Isuzu cab, didn't realize GM and Isuzu were still making trucks of this sort. 

Sounds interesting..a former coworker of mine works for Lightning Systems, but he does their website. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ Right, but commonly a truck does one leg of the journey empty, and the other loaded. ;)

[David]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ Right, but commonly a truck does one leg of the journey empty, and the other loaded.

Went back reread it and then checked the other EV sites and the loaded range was stated on the other sites. My bad, have to infer like you and @Cubical-aka-Moltar that based on the route and driver. Agree, goes out full comes back empty.

Still see this as an inner city delivery and pickup truck so the 110 range I expect to be totally doable on a daily bases. 

[balthazar]

One customer of mine has a wholesale business, makes a run to NYC every other day. Googlemaps sez it's 54 miles one way.
Right now he takes one of his '17 Sierra 3500s with a refrigerator box on the back, but with this vehicle's 110 miles range, that would be too tight.

[David]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

One customer of mine has a wholesale business, makes a run to NYC every other day. Googlemaps sez it's 54 miles one way.
Right now he takes one of his '17 Sierra 3500s with a refrigerator box on the back, but with this vehicle's 110 miles range, that would be too tight.

Could hit the DC charger while having lunch and recharge half the miles in 30 min.

[ccap41]

18 hours ago, dfelt said:

DC fast charging system achieving full recharge from zero in 3 hours.

It sounds very promising as long as they place the chargers near the loading docks so they can charge and load at the same time so when they're parked for an hour loading/unloading at the HQ they can recharge some and go back on their way. That would be ideal. 

[David]

19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It sounds very promising as long as they place the chargers near the loading docks so they can charge and load at the same time so when they're parked for an hour loading/unloading at the HQ they can recharge some and go back on their way. That would be ideal. 

Agree, I hope they are properly planning that too, it would make sense to have the fast DC chargers at the dock so loading / unloading while charging are done in sync.

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Agree, I hope they are properly planning that too, it would make sense to have the fast DC chargers at the dock so loading / unloading while charging are done in sync.

Absolutely and that would double or triple the range by being able to charge while not skipping a beat throughout the day. That 110 mile range could turn into driving 200 miles in a day and none of that is spent waiting at a pump and driving out of their way to the pump.  Productivity up, costs down. Sounds like a win-win if they do it right. 

[balthazar]

In my specific example, it wouldn't for the guy. He leaves to head there at something like 3AM, and there's no charging at the site. Most places are not open that early. I also don't think he stays there for anything like an hour- IDK but I believe it's far too busy there for that.
Doesn't matter; he's old school and I'll bet money he has no desire to even consider an EV truck.

[David]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In my specific example, it wouldn't for the guy. He leaves to head there at something like 3AM, and there's no charging at the site. Most places are not open that early. I also don't think he stays there for anything like an hour- IDK but I believe it's far too busy there for that.
Doesn't matter; he's old school and I'll bet money he has no desire to even consider an EV truck.

NY is pushing the EV agenda with requiring loading docks, inner city people transport, etc. to have charging stations. Be interesting to see how this plays out in the oncoming years.

[balthazar]

I'd hate to pull up at a crowded dock and find no room to park because (a handful) of EV truckers are loitering for 45 min/hour while they get recharged, when I wanted to get in & out.

[Robert Hall]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'd hate to pull up at a crowded dock and find no room to park because (a handful) of EV truckers are loitering for 45 min/hour while they get recharged, when I wanted to get in & out.

Yeah, the future isn't necessarily going to be easy.

[ccap41]

58 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In my specific example, it wouldn't for the guy. He leaves to head there at something like 3AM, and there's no charging at the site. Most places are not open that early. I also don't think he stays there for anything like an hour- IDK but I believe it's far too busy there for that.
Doesn't matter; he's old school and I'll bet money he has no desire to even consider an EV truck.

Well yeah, anybody whose route is the maximum distance the vehicle could travel, wouldn't be ideal. That 110 mile range would be dropping to 70-80 miles in the winter so this is more of a warm weather solution unless their trips really are that short. 

[David]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well yeah, anybody whose route is the maximum distance the vehicle could travel, wouldn't be ideal. That 110 mile range would be dropping to 70-80 miles in the winter so this is more of a warm weather solution unless their trips really are that short. 

As the company is marketing it, inner city service. So local deliveries where you usually are no more than 50-60 miles a day in driving. This truck makes perfect sense for that.

[ccap41]

55 minutes ago, dfelt said:

As the company is marketing it, inner city service. So local deliveries where you usually are no more than 50-60 miles a day in driving. This truck makes perfect sense for that.

What kind of products are they delivering that they need that kind of payload capacity yet they are only driving 50-60 miles a day? 

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

What kind of products are they delivering that they need that kind of payload capacity yet they are only driving 50-60 miles a day? 

Around here I see these type of trucks doing inner city delivery's for produce, fruit, office supplies, tech equipment, etc.

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

As the company is marketing it, inner city service. So local deliveries where you usually are no more than 50-60 miles a day in driving. This truck makes perfect sense for that.

One would have to have a very rigid business model that won't expand beyond that for this to make sense. It's an inflexible product to a significant degree. "Sorry; we can't deliver to Suburb Company X because we have an electric truck. Unless we can plug into your house for 45 minutes."

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Around here I see these type of trucks doing inner city delivery's for produce, fruit, office supplies, tech equipment, etc.

Anecdotal statement.  No backup with facts.

[David]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

One would have to have a very rigid business model that won't expand beyond that for this to make sense. It's an inflexible product to a significant degree. "Sorry; we can't deliver to Suburb Company X because we have an electric truck. Unless we can plug into your house for 45 minutes."

I have to disagree, companies that need to do suburban deliveries will have Diesel or CNG / LNG delivery trucks. Here you see in SODO our warehouse district these kinds of trucks where the long haul semi's come in and the product gets split up for inner city delivery and then the suburbs are put on other trucks and out they all go working just fine.

[ocnblu]

These miniscule ranges for the price of these trucks makes me laugh.  It NEEDS to be used on a very tight route with NO unplanned events or they're SCREWED.  Same old story, blah blah blah.

[David]

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

These miniscule ranges for the price of these trucks makes me laugh.  It NEEDS to be used on a very tight route with NO unplanned events or they're SCREWED.  Same old story, blah blah blah.

Amazing as to the how narrow / closed minded you are. There is no need for a loud diesel belching toxic smoke driving truck in the inner cities for delivery's. Even in the suburbs many auto's can be replaced by a 100 mile range delivery auto.

Perfect example of where we are reducing green house gas by replacing traditional ICE with CNG/LNG or electric auto's is our postal service.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2018/NL-AR-18-003.pdf

Latest report shows how much is being saved for a vehicle that drives on average of only 50 miles per day.

The latest reports for urban delivery and freight mobility also proves out this less than 100 miles once the freight has come to the city.

https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop18020/index.htm

The proof is all over in how little these trucks actually drive in the city and with Electric, they are using no energy when making a delivery or picking up a load. The engines sit there unlike the waste of diesel as the trucks are left idling.

[ocnblu]

So you're (note proper use of apostrophe) not planning on any unplanned events?

[ccap41]

16 hours ago, dfelt said:

Around here I see these type of trucks doing inner city delivery's for produce, fruit, office supplies, tech equipment, etc.

It's a little tough to believe they really only drive 50-60 miles a day. It would take forever to pay off the EV premium therefore it wouldn't even be worth it. They would also only need to fill up a diesel tank once a week with that kind of mileage. 

[David]

17 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's a little tough to believe they really only drive 50-60 miles a day. It would take forever to pay off the EV premium therefore it wouldn't even be worth it. They would also only need to fill up a diesel tank once a week with that kind of mileage. 

You might not live or work in a dense growing city, but with the explosive growth of west coast cities, the demand by the public for quiet streets, delivery trucks, reduced polution is the key point in what is driving a move to CNG/LNG or EV Delivery trucks. Since most of these trucks will outlast even a diesel, it makes sense. Especially makes sense with the cities pushing fuel free mass transit buses by mid 2020 to 2030. I see delivery trucks also going that way for all local delivers. UPS and FedEx have also bought many trucks like this from various companies to test out the tech though right now CNG/LNG is the bigger investment by them.

I do admit that it would be interesting to find out the cost that the first company is paying per truck for this EV hauler.

[ccap41]

I understand the people on the streets and in the homes want the quietness/cleanliness but they're not paying for the trucks to deliver so what's that really matter? I'm definitely not opposed to the whole EV work truck thing, I'm just saying at that short of daily driving it would take beyond the truck's useful life to pay itself off.

[David]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I understand the people on the streets and in the homes want the quietness/cleanliness but they're not paying for the trucks to deliver so what's that really matter? I'm definitely not opposed to the whole EV work truck thing, I'm just saying at that short of daily driving it would take beyond the truck's useful life to pay itself off.

I understand the business approach you are looking at. I have to assume besides city government dictation of using these kinds of trucks that they can at least break even on the trucks. Knowing that electric power trains have less maintenance and longer lives like CNG/LNG motors also have that they will have the truck on the road as much as possible 7 days a week. 

Will be interesting to follow this and see what the break even point is in years.

@ccap41 So revisited their web site, seems they have in addition to this class 6 a class 3 Ford Transit EV van. Both auto's are looked at beating the cost of Diesel over their expected 10 year useful life. Interesting. 🤔

[balthazar]

17 hours ago, dfelt said:

I have to disagree, companies that need to do suburban deliveries will have Diesel or CNG / LNG delivery trucks.

It certainly will work in a number of scenarios, just as it won't in a number of others. It's never going to be a 1:1 exchange, at least not in the near future.

Going back to my anecdotal example, the guy's company has 2 trucks. His only parking at the store is on street or across the street in a lot; no place to plug in. And even if his business allowed for a relatively tight route and a BEV delivery truck offered lower maintenance costs, 1. the purchase price would invariably be significantly higher, and 2. he loses whatever discount he gets when buying 2 trucks at once at the same dealer he's dealt with for years (35 years in business). It still remains to be seen if a BEV truck has widespread appeal considering 1. usage limitations, and 2. purchase price. Look at the Bollinger- he's hoping to come in "well under $100K". like, maybe, $80K. The Workhorse EV pickup is supposedly going to start at $52K. These are not small business friendly prices. I can ask him what he roughly pays for a Sierra with a box on the back- it's obviously a fleet/commercial purchase because they're regular cab 3500s.

[David]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It certainly will work in a number of scenarios, just as it won't in a number of others. It's never going to be a 1:1 exchange, at least not in the near future.

Going back to my anecdotal example, the guy's company has 2 trucks. His only parking at the store is on street or across the street in a lot; no place to plug in. And even if his business allowed for a relatively tight route and a BEV delivery truck offered lower maintenance costs, 1. the purchase price would invariably be significantly higher, and 2. he loses whatever discount he gets when buying 2 trucks at once at the same dealer he's dealt with for years (35 years in business). It still remains to be seen if a BEV truck has widespread appeal considering 1. usage limitations, and 2. purchase price. Look at the Bollinger- he's hoping to come in "well under $100K". like, maybe, $80K. The Workhorse EV pickup is supposedly going to start at $52K. These are not small business friendly prices. I can ask him what he roughly pays for a Sierra with a box on the back- it's obviously a fleet/commercial purchase because they're regular cab 3500s.

Very true and I agree with you for small businesses especially the early adopters are not going to be him unless his use case matches closely to what and how these trucks are used. In most cases just as this press release stated, it will be bigger companies that do buy 50 trucks at one time and needs a diverse truck fleet to address various needs.

[balthazar]

In addition, the buyer has to want/choose to purchase a BEV, even if everything was equal.

BEVs have a LONG uphill road to climb.

[David]

Just now, balthazar said:

In addition, the buyer has to want/choose to purchase a BEV, even if everything was equal.

BEVs have a LONG uphill road to climb.

I agree that it is an uphill road to climb, how long will be interesting to see as major markets change to requiring BEV such as Europe and China, Japan and Korea, I expect attitudes to change as prices fall and battery density improves.

I honestly think 10 years from now things will be very different.