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The bolded parts contradict to what you are saying in this post. A true enthusiast is one who enjoys manuals. THAT is what you are saying. I do NOT enjoy manuals therefore that makes ME NOT a true enthusiast... A car enthusiast who enjoys manuals is just that...an enthusiast who enjoys manuals... And an enthusiast who hates on manuals is just that...an enthusiast who hates on manuals. You got a passion for the car crazy world, then you are an enthusiast. BUY the car of your dreams and we may have a real definition of a TRUE enthusiast And us arguing about manuals, is what you said above: Its arguing about stupid shyte! Like I said above: And there is NOTHING wrong with that... We must not get too caught up with the superlatives... We must be able to call a spade a spade though but that shoudnt take away from what we like either... PS: I dont want to call you anything other than an internet friend. I just want to discuss stupid shyte with you.

Agreed on the Continental. It’s problem is that it was about five years late to the game, when people were still slightly more interested in sedans. The car itself was not a failure, anymore so than the dozens of German models that have come and gone in the last twenty years alone.

Seems BMW is now looking at a Luxury Truck. This concept is built on the BMW X7 converted to a truck. Then you have the custom house making their version off a X7 model. I would still hate the big ugly kidney grill, but this is way better than the badge engineering MB thought of doing with the Mitsubishi truck.

Sad, as I consider myself a true auto enthusiast! I have built more race cars than many here have, rebuilt more cars than most due to my dad have a garage, so yes, from rebuilding differentials, transmissions, suspensions to engines and that still has not stopped my enthusiast attitude for the auto and the future which I see as BEV. We have those that love the old iron, those that love the 70's, 80's and 90's and now those that love the 21st century ICE. We also have those that love the future BEV. One cannot say that those are not enthusiasts. Yes we have a few that only seem to want to argue, but still could be considered an auto enthusiast, we had those that are auto enthusiasts of all things ICE and have left due to their own bad behavior. In our Multi-Cultural world, accepting change even when one does not like change is part of life and for those that would just focus on attacking change the people that support it is sad and those have left or were banned due to their behavoir. Yes, we need more folks to join. Yet, in todays social media world and with a pandemic, it is hard at this time to get people to join. Hopefully this will change as the world get vaccinated, sadly for some it will not. I challenge everyone here including myself to get one new member by the end of the year.

Here is my rub with Ford, when they are good, theya re very good. some of their marginal productofferings are...marginal. They need to do what they are good at and forget about the rest. A high school baketball star isn't necessarily more rounded by joining the chess club, nor is a chess prodigy better off hitting the hoops. Fusion had enormous potential had sedans been more profitable and had Ford been willing to invest in it and update the design, two huge what ifs. In Washington state, not my pic. From All Trails. Hiking up to Camp Muir. My new fitness goal is to be in shape to do the whole trip next time I am in Washington state.

No one claims that you can't be enthusiast if you don't like manual transmission. However, many enthusiasts DO like the feeling of the manual transmissions. And despite the small numbers of cars that sell with manual, it seems there are still enough people for some companies to keep selling for now enthusiast targeted cars with manual transmissions. Perfect example is the brand new 911 and M3/4. I think people who claim that they are overrated and not necessary in today's world are people who either don't know how to drive one or never driven a good car with good transmission. Sports cars are not only about numbers, but also how they make us feel when we drive them. They are not a logical purchase. It is possible that eventually manual transmission will completely die out, but until then there are still plenty of people who think as I do.

Well that's just bollocks.... that stat is based on what? Time on lot before sale? If that's the case then the Land Cruiser and Volvo V90 sell faster because they are only available by special order... meaning that it is sold before it hits the lot. The G-wagon volume is too small to be a valid sample size.

By Emiliano Archival, fantastic turning... Crossing a bridge on a rural Washington hike, we are back in Columbus now. Not mine, restored Delta bandsaw. Huge fan of the art deco look with Delta. For sale FB marketplace, this just has the look

Unfortunately, it's a hideous vehicle, especially when you have the beautiful S Class on the same lot.

There's zero reason to try and explain because you're instantly going to jump on the sales numbers so you can read some reviews for yourself. The new Continental was far from bad. It was the HUGE step forward that Lincoln needed. It was the first Lincoln in decades to get it's own bespoke engine and they were no longer using Ford switchgear inside. It also had, arguably, the best seats in the industry. I'd say it was 9/10 baked. It needed a little more refinement but it was far from bad.

It's not like it's some sort of 'special privilege' or anything to sell work vans. All a 'franchise' is, is a legal agreement between a dealer & the OEM. Sometimes the OEM offers one to a dealer, sometimes a dealer requests the new brand. It's not a big deal. And with the vast majority of dealers selling mercedes passenger vehicles also selling mercedes-branded work vans, that much is obvious.

I think you need to stop assuming things about people and their habits. I grew up on manuals and spent the first twenty years (after I was legal to drive at 16 in 1988) driving nothing but manuals, from a busted ‘81 Chevette to a (at the time almost new) ‘94 RX-7 and everything in between. Even after that, I have driven everything from a 2018 Corvette Z06, with a 7 speed manual, on down. I haven’t owned a stick in over a decade now but it was personal choice and had jack $h! to do with driving enthusiasm or lack thereof. STOP ASSUMING $h!, is the point here. Save your lofty standards for another site where they don’t mind the condescending tone of your posts. Again, assuming $h! you haven’t the faintest clue over.

Love this piece of furniture, did not build myself. Also, Bonus pic of a 67 Thunderbird.

Um...yeah they are. Manuals are over rated... Facts are just that...facts. In fact...manuals became over rated as soon as Oldsmobile invented the automatic transmission waaay back in '39. One could like over rated things. I like the Star Wars franchise for instance. I LOVE the Star Wars franchise to be precise. But seeing how Episodes 7, 8 and ESPECIALLY 9 turned out...Star Wars is COMPLETELY over rated. I even LOVE the Terminator franchise. This franchise is TOTALLY over rated. I enjoy a Quarter Pounder with Cheese and a Big Mac. Talk about over rated... its the CLASSIC case of something being over rated... And there is NOTHING wrong with that... We must not get too caught up with the superlatives... We must be able to call a spade a spade though but that shoudnt take away from what we like either...

All the bold parts say that true enthusiasts enjoy manual transmission, period. This is not mutually exclusive of the car enthusiasts that enjoy other types of vehicles. However, to be honest, on this forum IMO I see very few real auto enthusiast. Few people who were, and were contributing something of real value, pretty much all left. Most of the people that here currently just like to argue for pages about stupid sh@t. And it is getting old. So call me what you want, but at least I did and I do follow my passion as much as I can, not just argue on the internet.

Answer: All the bold parts that you made state otherwise that no one claims you cant be an enthusiast... And THAT statement would be EQUALLY as true about AUTOMATIC transmission-ed sports cars... @David made an ludicrous statement about manuals being a distraction. But his statement of him saying that manuals are overrated do ring true. Maybe a tad on the overdramatic side and its certainly a divisive statement, but if we are honest about it...manual transmission cars on crowded public streets full of traffic with gobs and gobs of horsepower that modern sports cars make upwards of 450 HP and more, where even when the streets ARE empty, no one could possibly use ALL the gears safely at a safe speed...yeah...Id have to AGREE with him, and you should too, that manual transmissions on a modern sports today IS overrated... EVEN on a Porsche 911 that you mentioned. The Turbo 911 makes 570 HP. 0-60 in like 2.5 seconds. All in the first gear. By the time you switch to second, you are blasting around at 100 MPH. Only in 2 gears... Shyte...the Viper GTS of 1997 could get you to 60 practically in first gear, you had to shift to second to actuallly attain 60 MPH all with JUST 450HP... Even in your Mustang... you hit those numbers as your Mustang has 450 HP. You have to feather the throttle in order for you to row all the gears. And where is the fun in that...feathering the throttle on a sports car just to row the gears? In order for one to TRULY enjoy manual shifting on public roads on the Pacific Coast Highway for instance, one has to buy a Subaru BRZ or Mazda Miata....anything more powerful than that...on today's crowded roads, its just OVERRATED... On a track? Sure! All that you said about manuals. On public roads...its a different matter all together. So...I wanted to make it a point that there ARE car crazy people that enjoy fast cars, sports cars but not necessarily like to shift gears. For many reasons they do not like shifting gears and yeah...sometimes, manuals ARE over rated. Not to you. You like shifting gears. But to me...as I have opined my opinion, you at least understand as to why I do prefer automatics over manuals and why I might think they are over rated... For David...ask him more directly as to why he thinks they are over rated.

There are many different types of automotive enthusiasts. BECAUSE one is not enamored with manual transmissions and one does NOT enjoying shifting gears does not lessen that person's credibility of being an automotive enthusiast. The video above...shows how awesome it is to shift one's own gears...on a wallowing muscle car. No doubt...its AWESOME!!! 1. In the context of these past posts, the conversation is leading us to believe that changing our own gears makes for faster cornering as we control the gear we want entering and exiting corners. While true... a) in the video...there are no such corners. Making me question why in the world would we want to row our own gears on relatively straight roads? On public, traffic filled roads...kinda useless shifting our own gears... b) the Trans Am in question above wallows like a bastard. Its hardly a track car... Me thinks an automatic would do wonders for it on the track as BOTH hands would be on the steering wheel possibly eliminating the possibility of wallowing off track all the while concentrating on where to actually steer the car instead of fighting the wallowing... 2. Although it is awesome that we can row our own gears in THAT Trans Am, especially with the awesome aural sounds we get as we change those gears up and down, we actually DO get the SAME awesome sounds with an automatic... 3. Is it more engaging to shift one own's gears? Quite possible. Yes...Id say even. But if a car enthusiast is more of a cruising type of guy, driving becomes of a DIFFERENT type of engagement with your surroundings... Instead of "driving" on the Pacific Coast Highway shifting gears enjoying the drive, one is DRIVING on the Pacific Coast Highway enjoying the scenery... Instead of racing the engine and hearing the revs while shifting gears on a boulevard, one could be cruising, listening to the engine sounds anyway, but CRUISING down a boulevard enjoying the drive. I would be the one to be cruising...and when I need to make a pass on some dipshyte, I just mash the peddle and my incredibly low RPMed, high torqued muscle car could do the rest...and I could STILL enjoy the sounds the engine makes... Yeah...I do not like shifting my own gears either. But THAT does NOT make me less of a car enthusiast...

A few were surprising though. The EcoSport is clearly a POS if they can't sell their cheapest vehicle fairly quick. The Fusion also surprises because it's cancelled and I would have assumed there was cash on the hoods to move them so they didn't have old product on the lots. I would have thought the XT4 was moving a little quicker as well.

No more of a failure than an SLK. Yeah, it was late but if they used their old formula 5 years earlier, it would have been a garbage product. The Continental really was the turning point for Lincoln and has to get credit for where Lincoln is today with their pretty awesome lineup(awesome for comfy, quiet-luxury - Obviously not sporty-luxury). Agreed, and that's why i have it a 9/10 baked product. it was have been more refined in the driving category had it not been on a modified old platform. Also agreed on the small things that went away with the production version. It was nothing drastic but a lot of small things added up to not-quite-as-elegant end product. Personally, I don't think it looked like a badge engineered Fusion or gussied up MKZ, but I do get what you mean.

Lincoln as with Cadillac, are on a mission to capture their glory days. And are truly manufacturing great vehicles. Their interiors are for the first time in 50 years, truly in the realm of what they were building 50 years ago. The engineering prowess will be shown in their EVs. FoMoCo has to one-up the Mach-E with a Lincoln product. And THAT must come shortly. Cadillac on the other hand is truly on its way.

The problem with the Continental was that FoMoCo didnt use (didnt have at their disposal and didnt have the time to engineer) a proper platform for it. They just used the CD4 platform. The Fusion/MKZ platform albeit the LWB version. It made the Continental look small especially as compared to the concept they unveiled. It wasnt majestic enough 1. in actual looks 2. to actually compliment the namesake of Continental. Also, there were small exterior detailing that missed the mark that were on the concept that made the concept stand-out. Small details that were omitted that made the difference between wannabe luxury to truly greatness. A longer wheelbase than the LWB CD4 is one. Body panel lines on the concept made the Continental look like a handcrafted uber machine. On the production version, the Continental looked like a badge engineered Fusion...or a more gussied up MKZ... On the interior though, THAT would be Lincoln's FIRST step in addressing the issues that American luxury cars had...which would be the perception that American luxury makes cheapen out their interiors. The Continental put an end to that and proved that Lincoln was not messing around anymore and the result is truly shown in Navigator and Aviator SUVs.

Although I like several vehicles on the list, including the CT5 and GTI, no surprises here. My wife on our hike in Washington, approaching carbon glacier on Mount Rainer. My grey cat Smokey, chillin... My wife, we were hiking near Moonville tunnel again... My friend Dustin and I working on an Oliver 217 30 inch bandsaw

Not necessarily Who Will Build the First Manual Transmission Electric Enthusiast’s Car? (automobilemag.com)

How in the Sam hell did we go from Lincoln to MB vans? Lincoln. That’s the subject here. If he wants to continue his stupid defense of German vans, let him start his own thread (which is something I’ve never seen him do regarding his pet brand). It is the same wash, rinse, repeat nonsense with him and his blind fanboy love of all things German. He hasn’t learned a damn thing here and has never cared to learn anything that may put his pet brand in a negative light. Quite honestly, F him at this point (and yes I made it personal. Sue me). Lincoln BEVs: Anything else to add here? BTW @smk4565-Sales does not equate to world class. Rolls Royce and Bentley both sell far less than the numbers you posted above. By your fanboy logic, they are not world class either. There. Done.

Met mom and her DTS as she drove part way to our place for the weekend. Her first long trip with the 11 DTS she got last summer. I drove it. Firmer ride than the 2002 or 3 which was it, she finally sold recently. Took an opportunity to get some pics of hers and my TourX together. She says hers is fast because it has 8 cylinders. I keep telling her, "mine is faster" because it is, despite less than half the displacement...mine has tUrBo? the evening sunlight was hitting the cars just right.

So there is a Franchise to sell commercial Sprinter Vans. Per your 6 year old document, I have to assume there must be a newer one, but then only the commercial Sprinter van is called out, not the lowly passenger vans MB sells. Reviewing the web site, I see they moved the Metris passenger van under the commercial franchise. So selling is under the franchise. Service is still possible at all the dealers as this 2015 document you pointed to, thank you, does not say that a dealer cannot work on the vans without a franchise agreement, only sell.

No; just 75% of all dealers do. So… mercedes is doing the same thing Chevrolet is. Got it. Because BTW; not all Chevy dealers sell Express work vans, too. ?

Your missing the POINT MB does not state that the dealers cannot sell. The web site says any dealer can sell a van, use their search tool to find a dealer with vans in stock. Not all dealers stock vans, but that does not mean they cannot sell them and Daimler / MB does not keep them from selling it. No where on their parent web site, MB global site or MBUSA does it say it is a special dealership requirement to sell the company vans. MBUSA and MB global says not all dealers stock everything they produce. Use the search tool to find a dealer with the product your interested in, in stock. This is the same way with pretty much any auto company unless they clearly state that a certain product line requires a special dealership. Common sense. Want to prove me wrong, then POINT ME AND EVERYONE HERE TO THE ACTUAL REQUIREMENT on DAIMLER / Mercedes-Benz web sites!

^ :shrug: These 2 took me like 6 secs to find.

And lets just skip the part where NASCAR drivers don’t even have to use the clutch pedal to shift. Not exactly “old school” driving there, much like the sequential ones touted are “old school” manuals. If it doesn’t involved BOTH the left foot and the right hand to shift, then it’s not a true manual IMO.

Very glad to see it back…

Their current portfolio is extremely competitive with everything it their respective price range. They don't build race cars, they built true luxury cars. Quiet, comfortable, quality materials, pickup/drop off your vehicle for service.

ERG! - the first 20 secs of that injected Hemi sound! ?

To quote the Lincoln president, "Our clients deserve the very best from Lincoln. Our world-class vehicles, effortless services and advanced connected technology will allow us to create an always-on relationship with them and help transform the Lincoln brand for the future." Laughable that they think Lincoln builds "world class vehicles" It makes sense though to run Lincoln all EV, 9 years is still fairly far away and they are a low volume brand and not really competitive now, so might as well go a different direction. Plus their model line is small, won't be hard to build 3 electric SUVs, and maybe 1 sedan but Ford seems not interested in sedans. It isn't like they have to make a model line as diverse as Ford's all EV which would take much longer. Plus I think by 2030, EV will be standard expectation in the luxury segment.

Because Gottlieb Daimler 125 ago had the motto "the best or nothing," and they honor that to this day. The G-wagon was the fastest selling vehicle in the USA in May, and at an average ATP of $174,700. I don't see many Toyota's selling for $174k, or Lexus for that matter. I don't see Lincoln selling Navigators at $174k, why not? They want to be "world class" then step up to the plate. The vans aren't luxury, they are commercial vehicles, Mercedes markets them that way as well. They aren't even sold though the same dealership network as their cars, nor are they even part of the same business unit as their cars.

Doesn't bother me if 100% of Mercedes dealers sell vans. If the dealership wants to get the license to sell both that is their choice.

They have to have a franchise agreement to sell vans, just as there were franchise agreements for Sprinter, Smart and Maybach. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50749503e4b0fa0ffd4b65f5/t/56142bd2e4b0e26258e39c6c/1444162514216/BrandStandards_08.20.15.pdf Notice there are Passenger Car AND Light Truck Franchise AgreementS. Obviously 289 dealers got both franchises, some did not. Just like some Mercedes dealers has Smart franchises while others did not. In fact in Pittsburgh Bobby Rahal owns 2 Mercedes dealers, only 1 of them had the Smart brand.

Lincoln sales volume in China: https://carsalesbase.com/china-lincoln/ And Audi sales in China: https://carsalesbase.com/china-audi/ That is Audi outselling Lincoln by over 16 to 1 in China last year, and Audi is on pace for 750,000 sales this year. "World Class" doesn't get outsold 16 to 1 in the largest car market in the world and not even participate in the EU.

First of all it is 460hp Secondary, this, as the previous statements are simply not true.

9 day average on dealer lots. It was built on a Fusion platform...

So if you are challenging benchmarks like the E-class, 5-series and A6 (at least in price segment), then why do you come with a 9/10 baked product? And if they were going for full size like an A8 or Lexus LS, they were in fantasy land, but even a Lexus ES350 is/was a better product then the Continental, and the Lexus was cheaper. If they want this Zypher to sell, they need an 11/10 product something nice than a Genesis G80, but EV with more performance and the same price as a G80. Or come up with a hook like level 4 self driving standard, something that is way cutting edge that will attract people that otherwise wouldn't consider it.

One and only thing I do agree with you, I should have stopped wasting my time here long time ago. There is only one true enthusiast and a decent poster left here @balthazar . The rest of you are full of sh@t and excuses.