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Guess this also makes Lexus better than Mercedes since, once again, you have decided that volume matters. Just a damn joke at this point. Back to how this affects Tesla…

^ I don't think anyone really cares how many luxury vehicles sell, other than the corporate beancounters, and eventually collectors if the numbers are especially low. And smk.

The Lincoln Mark LT came out in 2005 at a time when Lincoln had virtually zero brand cred. They were still selling Town Cars and they had the Aviator as a similarly bad badge job. The only credible entry at the time was the Lincoln LS which did fairly well but died due to corporate turf fights. If Lincoln did a Mark LT today with the interiors that Lincoln is putting in their vehicles today, put in their new high end navigator suspension, and I think they'd have a $100k+ truck easily. You are partially correct, the Avalanche is just a Suburban from a parts perspective except for the rear seats, mid-gate, and tailgate apparatus. The rest of your statement is you just agreeing with GM's shortsightedness. Avalanches still command a premium on the used market. The people who have them love them and won't give them up. On the multiple Avalanche groups I'm in, people are regularly keeping them alive into the 300k - 500k mile range because there just isn't an exact replacement out there for them. And often times when they do replace it with another truck they go to Ford or Ram because there is no loyalty since "their" model is gone. When GM decided not to continue with the Avalanche they thought (as with Pontiac, Saab, and Saturn) they they'd just be able to push those customers to another model/brand. That hasn't been the case. Their analysis was also faulty in that they didn't account for the large price increases on the Suburban/Tahoe platform that would later be decided on. The Avalanche should have been continued but only as a premium priced truck with no "base" models like it had originally been marketed. Basically LT and up at a minimum... no bench seat, no base radio, probably leather as standard. They would have sold all of them and filled a chunk of excess capacity at Arlington Yes I do... maybe not from Lexus because there aren't enough Tundra owners out there who want "more" to make it worthwhile. I don't see a place for Ram to go... I mean they're not going to make a Maserati or Alfa Romeo truck based on the Ram, but if Jeep really wanted to stick it to GM, the Grand Wagoneer is built on the Ram frame and a Grand Wagoneer EXT with a proper mid-gate would make a splash. But a new Escalade EXT or a Cadillac version of the Denali with the 6.2 and super cruise? They won't sell a lot of them, but they'll sell at $110k+ all day. A Lincoln truck with the Navigator interior, the new magic suspension, and the Aviator Plug-In Hybrid's drivetrain sporting 630 lb-ft? With all of those parts already on the shelf, it's just about pure profit to run a few of those down the F-150 assembly line at $110k+ a pop. they look so dumpy

And only ONE midsize CUV which outsells the ONE midsize Mercedes CUV. FFS man. Just stop the damn excuses and accept that Mercedes does not win at everything. It would save a tone of space and waste here. And I quote (from one article). “Both luxury midsize SUVs offer great engine choices, awesome AWD configurations, and comfortable rides. The team at KBB favored the 2020 Acura MDX for its standard V6 engine, high reliability and resale value, and its lower price.” But of course the Mercedes fanboy thinks the Mercedes is better. What was that you said earlier about credibility?

An oversight; no doubt he'll correct. #1 sales volume = the absolute best.

In 2020 2 164 187 units 691 000 of those were compact Now...I aint doing C class and E class, I aint got time for that... But MOST of those cars are fleet and taxi and low market cars. GLC might have been the company's top selling model, but like the E Class, in parts of the world, this model is ALSO sold NOT as a luxury model... I aint gonna do the math for that either... Lets NOT forget the Sprinter vans that Mercedes sells to vacation resorts and hotels in France, Greece, Italy, Spain... Nice vans. Awesome vans. I fell in love with them in 2018 when I saw them in action in Greece. But they aint sold as in high price tags and are not sold as luxury either. Some are. But these are fleet vehicles. MOST are sold with decent seats and the like, but are NOT luxury rides shuttling tourists around. They are just buses... I WONT be far off to say that 60% of those 2 164 187 units are NON LUXURY!!! If you wanna prove ME wrong....YOU do the math and PROVE me wrong. But its gonna be tough...when you are already at 30% ONLY with the compacts. Add the vans...which are at 325 000. Which says commercial. Are those the Sprinter fleets? Already you are ABOVE the 50% mark... NOT all are non-luxury. Ill give you that. But a high percentage is. We are very close to 50% if not AT 50%... Go ahead...DO the math... teach me, but more importantly...TEACH YOURSELF!!!!

Guess by that metric, the “glossed over honda pilot” is a better luxury SUV than the MBGLE. Good to know.

You got no analysis of that. Its only your head canon that alllows you to think this way. Because you are a fanboy. But reality is, and YOU deny it, that GMC sells MORE luxury cars 50 000 dollars and more than Mercedes does. Now...in your head, its good that Mercedes "steals" from Volvo, Acura, Lincoln, Lexus Cadillac etc... But reality is that GMC MIGHT be replacing Mercedes in the 50 000-100 000 dollar price range BECAUSE Mercedes decided to go DOWNmarket. THAT move OPENED up a market for GMC and their Denali, All Terrain X packages, Kodiak and now Hummer trims... Its all how you wanna see things...

I am actually glad that 1/3 of Mercedes are under $50k, because that takes sales away from Acura, Volvo, Lincoln, Lexus, Cadillac, Infiniti, etc. The A-class, CLA, GLA, GLB (aside from being needed in China and Europe with displacement tax and CO2 regs) in the USA take away sales from Volvo XC40/XC60 and S60, Acura RDX/TSX, Cadillac CT4/CT5, XT4, Lexus NX/UX, etc. No reason to let those brands take that volume when Mercedes can take it. And people will pay double the price for that Maybach than they could get a Navigator or Escalade for. Shouldn't Lincoln, Volvo, Cadillac, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Tesla and Jaguar all wonder why no one will pay $200k for one of their cars? Zero of those brands are on par with Mercedes until they have a $200,000 car.

Yeah; that's not true. Their SUVs get very good reviews, and are quite competitive. Who do you think mercedes benchmarked when it decided to build a full-size SUV?

They don’t have YOUR credibility and clearly you don’t count since you have made it abundantly clear that it’s German or nothing even when the German garbage. It clearly matters to you because you have repeatedly touted their high ATPs even when it’s not, relative to the competition. Just skip the part where the $145K models represent probably less than 1% of their overall sales. It CLEARLY matters to you. Stop pretending otherwise.

I dont know? Why DOES it matter? All I know is that Mercedes' volume in North America is about a third BELOW 50 thousand dollars... But...more importantly... Why is it that YOU dont EVER want to admit to it? Why does it BOTHER YOU that Mercedes' volume, a third of it...is BELOW 50 thousand dollars? You keep on deflecting that fact... Is it because YOU have bought into the bullshyte that Mercedes is luxury and faced with THAT fact that you want to deny that Mercedes is just as a ho-hum brand as, lets say...Cadillac? Seeing as you hate Cadillac so much you try to discredit Cadillac at every chance you get... Dude... 100 000 plus people per year...every year... buy/lease Mercedes cars LESS than 50 000 US dollars. THAT is A LOT of NON-LUXURY Mercedes cars being bought in the US. In Europe? A HELLUVA LOT MORE than that as in Europe, Mercedes, since the end of WW2 has been an automaker catering to the AVERAGE EUROPEAN... Point being... YOU dont want to admit that Mercedes is not the luxury automaker YOU so wish it to be... Its very ho-hum... https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a37444029/2021-maserati-ghibli-trofeo-is-not-german-in-every-way-it-should-be/ Brand new EV concept... A MAYBACH non-the-less. VERY HO-HUM... Why is that Mercedes decided to copy a Lincoln from a decade ago though? And made it a top spec super uber luxury?

Seems like everybody liked the Ford 5.0 v8. That engine lasted in Mustangs for a really long time, at least until the late '90s.

I honestly think Stellantis is embracing Dodge's history of SRT and Muscle and realizes the profit generating machine it is. As such, I honestly do not see them doing anything to hurt the current ICE product line while they focus on bringing out proper electric Muscle Cars.

And that’s my point. They are direct competitors while being vastly different in size and price range, which runs counter to his little narrative that the EQS should not be compared to the Tesla Model S for those very same reasons. It should be noted that the Slade is four inches wider than the GLS.

...Those are pretty big differences though... Walk around a GLS and an Escalade and they're significantly different in size. Just walk around each of them. The Escalade/Navigator/(assuming) Grand Wagoneer are much larger vehicles. They may be priced similarly, but the American ones are much larger. They probably have 6 inches in width alone on the GLS/X7.

Again let me correct this for you German auto fan. “All the foreign AND domestics will have big line ups of EV’s” Because, as I’m sure you are aware, the Germans are not the only ones with multiple EVs coming out.

I think the exterior is pretty meh, they missed on the exterior as the E-class and S-class look far better than the electric cars, why would I pay more for an uglier car? Interior of the EQE looks awesome, they nailed that. Problem is they are designing these EV's by wind tunnel, they need to sacrifice 10 miles of range in the name of styling.

Ever notice how close the two words 'velour' and 'Velcro' are? ? ? I have to be able to move, and those seats grip you like sandpaper. I almost can't believe they built cars like this.

Thinking about @balthazar ... ... not really. - - - - - (saw this the other day)

Had to go down to a customer's house today - they got minor water intrusion Friday. They're away, I've been emptying dehumidifiers, was vacuuming, etc, hoping the circa 1400 SF of basement carpet can stay. They live in a huge house (6200 SF) at the end of a street, woods all around (except 1 house across the street). Tons of boulders in the area, and within their semi-circular drive, they have some low areas and some monster boulders, nice & rounded/irregular. I had pitched an idea last year (kinda jokingly) about creating a water feature there, with water spilling over/down the largest rock, and making a lined pond at the base, with a wooden bridge spanning it. Walking paths, planted beds, could be really cool. So the weather is so gorgeous today, my schedule wasn't pressing, and I was walking around the front yard/boulders, sometimes waving my hands at imaginary vistas, daydreaming in the breezy silence. Then I remembered they have a Ring doorbell, watching me spacing out.

Am I the only one who wonders why the Acura MDX is the best seller in this segment, followed by the Mercedes Benz GLE of all things? Is everyone a badge snob ignoring Lincoln and Cadillac, or what?

Cite your claim.

Suuuure you are, now that you realize that they sell in that high of a percentage under $50K. You have fought that notion, tooth and nail for years now but again, you have that bar to move so… So they are, in fact, a volume brand now (yet another notion that you have fought for years)? Which shows that people are dumb to buy an overpriced CUV with Lincoln inspired derivative exterior design. Noticed you have no counter for that rather lazy design on such a pricey EV just because it says “Maybach”. Honestly, it is pretty laughable right now.

There is even a slight similarity with Cadillac's mags for 1994 for phoques sake!!! from 1999

Yep, in my family we’ve had at least 10 cars and SUVs with the 5.0, including my ‘87 Mustang GT. My Dad had 3 5.0 Town Cars, my Mom 3 Thunderbirds and a Mustang, my brother 3 Mustangs and an Explorer, my sister an Explorer. And a couple older 5.0s--a '68 Cougar and a '68 Fairlane.

I think he just meant the '90s 4.3 was of a different time and place than the late 70s-early 80s small V8s...one odd factoid is in the 70s Chevy had both a 262 and a 267. Ford also briefly dabbled in the small V8 game with the long forgotten 255 in the early 80s.

Tesla should worry about themselves and the distractions that come from trying to be all things to everyone from Solar roofs, solar power generation, power company, auto company, etc. etc. etc. Plus as the posts clearly show, all other auto companies. Ford right now should be a worry as 70% of their Mach-e sales are conquest sales from Tesla based on what Ford is reporting and people are posting about the over all quality with fit n finish. Right now I think the coming Rivian Truck will hurt Tesla as will Fords F-150 Truck. This covers both high and low price points and I think Tesla as well as any other company that ignores the desires of the buying public will feel the hurt. I honestly think Mercedes is making a MAJOR mistake in having so many electric cars out before electric SUV/CUV/TRUCK.

Cincinnati Reds baseball team. And a bunch of car dealerships. This is when her husband passed and she inherited them. I'm thinking baseball team and car dealerships could have made her rough around the edges real fast. Right ... she does have that office villainess look ... sadly, these types can do a lot of damage before HR deals with them as they should have earlier.

As one that pays NO attention to sports what sport is she an owner in? On just a photo standpoint, she looks constipated and would be a #itch to have to work for. Reminds me of a manager I once had that truly was the worst manager I ever had. She was fired 18 months later for cause after so many HR complaints.

Of course... whatever the Chevy 4.3L V8 is doing over there... has nothing to do with what the Pontiac 301 is doing over there.

Ford's survival relied heavily on the next vehicle after the Model T. It was not what Chevrolet or Dodge was selling... What Chevrolet's and Dodge's answer to the Model T was what made the Model T obsolete. But Ford's survival was what Ford was going to bring as the Model T's successor. Im taking the same approach here. Tesla has ENOURMOUS brand cache and recognition. Its their fight to lose... All Tesla has to do is just repeat what they did the 1st time around. Capture lightning in a bottle a second time by being better than themselves. Like I said, THEY are the benchmark... GM, Ford and what it looks like what Mercedes is declaring on their EVs is that they can at least match and beat Tesla's tech. Mercedes' design falls short on the outside but on the inside they look like true winners. GM seems like both the outside and the inside looks like they are winners. Ford seems to be doing great with the Mach E and what they've shown the EV F150 to be. But alas, Tesla has that awesome brand recognition... Ill repeat, Tesla remains static on their 5 models (Roadster included) and GM, Ford, VW Group, Mercedes WILL clean their clock. But if Tesla brings out 2nd gen models... all Tesla's 2nd gen models have to do is just be better than the 1st gen. Maybe the Roadster will not survive a 1st gen let alone a 2nd gen... If they can accomplish that, they will live and do great and unto the 3rd generation of their 4 or 5 or 6 models. (Cybertruck the 6th model?) Its important that they dont flub the Cybertruck as that is billions of dollars of R&D that they could use for 2nd gen Model S,X,3 and Y. If they succeed, then that guarantees billions of dollars...for a REAL 25 000 dollar affordable EV themselves. Like I said, its up to them this early on... Its what THEY do, NOT what their competition does. I firmly believe that.

Awesome! @smk4565 We agree on something...that Mercedes and its EVs will NOT destroy Tesla. Thread once again back on track!

My grandfather had an '82 Olds 98 Regency Brougham sedan, Light Redwood Metallic body with Autumn Red vinyl roof, and the Redwood velour interior (looking at the sales brochure). Couldn't get situated between the seat belts; stayed pressed up against the door, only one cheek on the seat, face against the glass.

Exactly. Bar moving 101.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand... we're back to determining 'competitors' by overall length. Spinning those Golden Oldies!!

Another beach day today, went and sat on the sand reading a book on the history of Top Gear. Saw a sharp candy apple red '68 Pontiac Firebird 400 w/ Cragar SS wheels...nice rumbly exhaust. Also saw a gray late model Nissan GTR at a gas station out in the country, and a black w/ white interior Rolls Royce Dawn convertible rolling top down...

I have been told that I can be fairly random.

@trinacriabob I wanna know how in the world did you dredge up her name and memory all of a sudden like that? I hadnt heard a peep of her since her 1990s racist incidents. I had long since forgotten she existed until you brought her up. LOL

Regarding Marge Schott, mostly I found her amusing. But then I was over 2,000 miles away from her reign when she was presiding over it. Here's the funny thing. This is a photo of a young Marge Schott taken when she was 28, according to the caption beneath it. How does one go from peaches and cream to boorish, considering how much money she had? The 180 degrees is perplexing. Most "debs" with coin go on to be society ladies and matriarchs.

Sounds like a (insert medical condition here) medication.

Seems like a fair deal to me... This makes sense...

Ya gotta wonder what the eff people in the middle ages were thinking with the original art work here... This is brilliant... Creative comic... Believe in yourself...

I thought of you yesterday also. Saw an electric motorcycle that had been ridden a long ways to a marina my wife and I hiked to. When the rider walked up and rode off....he would make us both look small. I think the EV range anxiety thing is over with. In all seriousness it was cool seeing an EV bike out in the wild. Greece is beautiful, I really want to go. All of the Greek (meaning from Greece, not from a fraternity) students here on campus are awesome. maybe I can be an honorary Greek for a week... If TC Bob were a cat...

Anything I say about the lady will get me permanantly banned by Drew so....Fried Chicken. I had Popeyes Fried Chicken for lunch. side of mashed potatoes, side of Mac and Cheese. 5 piece Tenders, spicy. Although Hot Chicken Takeover is a locally owned fried chicken place with much better food. Drew, thanks for not banning me for my thought crimes against this woman. Regards, Christopher/Horse/Stang/Proud Ranger Owner.... Funny, I just ate at a new mediteranian restauraunt and thought of you.

Dodge has been lucky enough that from Fiat's ownership they have been left alone to manage their (limited) portfolio as how they see fit. Marchionne was at least smart enough to acknowledge that Dodge's engineers, marketing people and designers knew what American people wanted from this brand and let them free to allow Dodge to become what it is today in 2021. Dodge folk grew the Hemi into a 2nd iteration Superbee, Scat Pack, Hellcat, Demon, Red Eye with 392s and supercharged 6.2s. The SRT brand also grew with Fiat. Fiat allowed Dodge to do this. Fiat did not stifle Dodge the way Daimler did. I think Stellantis will allow this way to continue on. SRT engineers have been given the task to introduce and lead Dodge into the EV era and are welcomed to evolve Dodge and the SRT brand into EV 'muscle cars'. Not only that, SRT engineers have a bigger role to play within Stellantis itself! https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports-cars/a36135002/heres-whats-really-going-on-at-srt/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/stellantis-srt-future/ Although the title is misleading...it says that Stellantis disbands the SRT team. Its far from disbanding it. The first link, Kuniskis expalins that because battery packs and KW/H and the various platforms that Stellantis will be giving Dodge, the SRT team, working with the other Stellantis engieering teams will have to work closely together with the base cars to accomplish SRT things with the SRT cars for Dodge so its logical that the SRT engineers will work side to side with the other engineers to ensure that the SRT cars will be able to be engineered properly as SRT cars. If what Kuniskis says is true, Stellantis shows that they have deep respect for SRT engineers and Dodge in general. If its false, then SRT engineers are just absorbed into Stellantis for the greater good of the multi-branded corporation and Dodge will lose its carefully crafted identity they had built the last 12-13-14 years.

And again, the Maybach is vaporware while the Hummer is actually real at this point and will be far more off-road capable than that gussied up Benz. Again, apples to off road oranges. And regarding the Maybach concept EV, Lincoln called. They want their 2015 MKX back. While I am sure the interior will be pure luxury (better be for its price), that exterior is derivative s*** and not even the biggest Benz fanboy will convince me otherwise.

Mercedes is the #1 selling luxury car brand in the world, yet "they do not sell that many luxury vehicles" ??? Who is selling more luxury cars than them? Who has a higher % over $50k, over $100k, or whatever other number you want to pick from. I don't know that Mercedes "wants" to go down market, I mean a CLA has the same price structure of a Cadillac CT5, it isn't really down market, it is priced like Cadillac most expensive sedan. Mercedes needs small cars for fuel economy and emissions reasons, they can't just sell V8 AMG's. Plus they want to have a complete line up of small, medium, large to hit a wide range of buyers, you have to have entry level product to bring people into a brand. It seems to be there is nearly $100,000 price difference between the Mercedes full size SUV and the GMC. Please find me the Lexus or Audi sedan in this price range: And I would love to see the BMW "Ultimate Driving Machine" rival to this: And then there is this guy that has 37 exterior color choices 31 interior color choices. Part of luxury is choice, what does Tesla have, like 4-5 exterior colors and 2 interior colors? Will the GMC Hummer have 37 color choices? Uh-oh, it is also rather easy for a CLA250 to cost over $50k:

Thanks But I KNEW that already as I had done THAT exercise one year ago... The post above this one. Look at it if you wanna... I had come to a conclusion using MY logic and that AVG transaction prices for Mercedes was at 55 000 dollars. An actual link states the avg transaction prices to be 58 000- 59 000 thousand dollars with my calculated break down of 260 000- 280 000 units. Below 50 thousand is at around 75 000 units. Like what you said. NOT including a handful of C classes and an even less than a handful of GLC CUVs and a bunch of commercial vans. 40 000 vans to be exact. How many of those vans are less than 50 000 US dollars? Almost ALL of those. We will ADD 2000 C Classes to your total with 1000 GLCs and lets say 25 000 Vans. That would be 28 000 units to the 75 000. Ill just add 25 thousand JUST to make an easy number. 100 000 units at or below 50 000 US dollars. THAT is 32.5% You split the middle with @surreal1272 by saying 30% which seems reasonable. But...he is CORRECT also in saying that its CLOSER to 40% than it really is to 20%... Below 60 thousand dollars and Mercedes sells 260 000-280 000 units. Any which way you slice it... 1. Mercedes does NOT sell THAT many luxury vehicles. It sells AS many as anybody else that sells vehicles at those luxury prices. 2. Mercedes wants to sell MORE low end stuff to beef up their sales portfolio... They want to go DOWN market... GM and GMC want to go UPmarket...and GMC is offering higher priced trims and they are HITTING their sales targets... 3. I am not so sure Mercedes is hitting their sales targets DOWN or UP market... 4. Mercedes is NOT all that as to how @smk4565 wants to prep them up and your analysis falls just a tad short... helpful but misleading...with your 20% Its a good thing that I done THAT exercise just over a year ago...