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Two regulars are having b-days today on C&G, according to the homepage: William Maley and ccap41 Every once in a while, I spot these. I just returned to check the forum after crossing the pond, so I'm still a wet noodle. Happy birthday to both C&G members!

Yes. THAT is what I said. I used me as an example. I wouldnt last too long. But, there are restaurants that sell "gourmet" hamburgers at ridiculous prices. We are getting away from what we initially want to discuss, but at the core of things, people decide what they want to pay for an object. The gourmet burger is marketed in such a way that draws in people to pay through the nose for what was once upon a time ago, poor people food... Sure, these gourmet burgers put exotic mushrooms on them. Hello... mushrooms are a freakin' fungus that bored kids in France used to find in their forests. Indigenous North American folk also gathered in their quest to survive in the most natural ways possible... Soldiers are taught to know which ones are poisonous and which ones are not... IE... nothing that says exquisite dining in MY eyes. What does THAT have to do with anything here? Like I said, its people and the market that decide what is the value. The OEM provides the marketing and hype of the vehicle in question. Supra C8 Corvette Bronco Mustang GT500 Hellcat/Demon Challenger The hype is generated by the OEM. The price is set by the dealership The people decide what they actually want to pay to be the first to own that desired vehicle Hey...if (enough) people are dumb enough to pay 100 000 dollars for a freakin' Bronco, kudos to the dealership for catching fish on their line. And kudos for Ford (in this case) for creating SUCH a desirable vehicle... I DO agree with you. It IS shytty business practices. Just RESTRAIN yourself from buying into that price. But if there is one idiot willing to do so, you cant really blame the dealership for trying. As for I. I just WISH I could sell a (one) hotdog for 20 bucks... 2 hotdogs, fry and a coke. A cool one hundred dollar bill. (plus tax) And there is a line-up to the door like I have now? Do I need to express my feelings for that scenario?

Today GM president Mark Reuss revealed the trio of electric motors that will power the Ultium-based EVs and the assumption that the e-crate Performance plug n drive that GM has talked about based on Ultium. Designed and calibrated in-house by GM to ensure the highest level of performance we get the following Ultium Drive motors. 62 kW or 83 HP all-wheel drive assist motor 180 kW or 241 HP front-drive motor 255 kW or 342 HP rear and or front-drive motor The three motors, 62 kW, 180 kW, and 255 kW motors are built as a scalable family, sharing design principles as well as similar tooling and manufacturing strategies. This allows for a mix n match approach allowing GM to offer unique branding solutions that offer excellent torque and power density across a wide spectrum of vehicles from performance cars to work trucks. This trio of motor options is what allows Hummer by GMC to use three of the 255 kW motors to produce the 1,000 HP. GM President Reuss stated, "Twenty years of electric drive system development and more than 100 years of high-volume vehicle engineering are helping GM pivot quickly from conventional vehicles to EVs”. Reuss believes this vertical integration of both hardware and software allows GM to have full control over their own destiny and is a significant competitive advantage. GM is looking to reduce pressure on the planet as the 180 and 255 kW motors are permanent magnet design which minimizes reliance on heavy rare earth materials. The 62 kW unit is an induction motor. Ultium Drive software development starts at the GM's Global Technical Center in Warren Michigan, Global Propulsion Systems in Pontiac, Michigan, and Milford Proving Ground where a team of nearly 11,000 team members work on the Ultium Drive software development. This number is projected to be a growth area for GM as it serves as a critical pillar of GM's all-electric Future vision. Ultium Drive Software is key to serving the propulsion needs of the vehicle portfolio of GM's future. Computer-assisted and virtual engineering is helping to move product development that would take four plus years and reduce it to a quick, safe and cost-effective manner in delivering new auto's to market in only a couple years. A.I. and machine learning is helping to determine the most efficient ways to distribute torque in a three-motor system like the GMC Hummer EV, allowing extreme off-road capable vehicles to also drive smoothly and comfortably on surface streets. Faster go-to-market times is being achieved by the Ultium Drive Software which was originally designed allowing for reuse in many applications of future EV products. GM's Ultium Drive Unit The brains behind every Ultium powered auto is this Ultium Drive unit that can work with any combination of Ultium drives. This includes the software of key power electronic components such as the power inverter module, which converts DC voltage from battery to AC voltage to power the motors. To quote GM's press release: The HUMMER EV’s 0-60 mph acceleration in a GM-estimated approximately three seconds – Watts to Freedom mode2 –is largely due to GM’s electric drive software expertise in addition to its key competencies in motor controls, power electronics, motor design and development. With GM's current EVs, that being the Chevrolet BOLT, BOLT EUV and past electric autos such as the VOLT, the inverter, power electronics, accessory power module, onboard charging module all resided outside in individual units adding to complexity and cost. The Ultium Drive Unit will have all this integrated reducing cost and manufacturing complexity leading to a planned higher reliability. As some might say, simplicity is the answer to reliability thus GM's move to reduced complexity. GM's equivalent electric parts of today in an Ultium design will have 50% less mass and volume while giving 25% more capability. GM's All-New EV motors and integrated power electronics, contained within its Ultium Drive Units Debut on the 2022 GMC Hummer Pickup and 2023 GMC Hummer SUV with the Truck production and sales starting later in 2021. Production of GMC Hummer Ultium powered electric vehicles will be done at the Factory Zero Detroit-Hamtramck site. GM Reveals All-New EV Motors to Power an All-Electric Future Architecture-and-Ultium-Battery-System (2).pdf View full article

No; hence the term "maybe".

Yeah, so just don't buy it. I don't really understand the outrage of a dealership asking an absurd price for a vehicle. I think it's stupid and will never pay over MSRP, but they're free to ask whatever they want, assuming the parent company allows this.

Maybe not in your life time is what your saying? I honestly think we will see low end EVs by 2030 for everyone if not sooner.

But those prices set from the get go. It's not like they sell them for $30 a pop and then, after you when you get there, double the price because of hype. You know, from the start, those are the prices. These dealerships operate on a. much sneakier level and have for decades and no amount of defense by their supporters will change that fact, especially when I have worked for some of those places and seen it first hand. Let me put it another way. iPhones are hyped every year and sometimes there is a shortage on those for a few months due to the hype. Now imagine going to Verizon, Bestbuy, or wherever else they are sold and they decide to sell them at 50% above Apple's MSRP because of said hype. People would lose their minds and then Apple swoops in to pull those iPhones from said shops because they do not allow retailers to sell above their asking price. Honestly, that is what Ford should do to these dealerships that do that because it just hurts Ford's reputation in the long run and makes them look greedy as well. Not a good PR look.

100% agreed- that's shit business. A deal is a deal. However, your last statement is a whitewashed generalization; no one is saying 'we need a dealer that'll try to add on 5 grand after paperwork is signed'. Because that's certainly not a common practice whatsoever.

GM is slowly releasing images of their electric motors with transmission system, wow are these compact. There is a whole new series of pictures on their web site at various stages of creation / R&D. Very cool to look at found here: GM Corporate Newsroom - United States - Images

Maybe never.

Another beach day. Saw a clean Apple green ‘71 Monte Carlo and a dark gray restomod ‘68 Camaro SS convertible on the way here. On the way home, saw a red/white/blue Rambler American with a hood scoop (can't recall what these were called, 1969 only), a clean white '71-72 Grand Prix w/ no vinyl top, a yellow '55 Thunderbird rolling top down, and a custom salmon-colored '41 Chevy tudor. People getting their oldies out and enjoying them in the great September weather..