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Decided to put this here instead of the Hornet thread (since that's where it started but was diverting from the subject of the Hornet). My last Toyota. 1996 RAV 4, FWD, Auto. Bought it March 2016 with 252K miles on it. It was purely my "beater car" to get to work and back. I sold it December 28th, 2019 with 267K miles on it. Clearly, I did not drive it much. It sat outside in my driveway in Peoria, AZ (Robert knows lol) all those years (no room in the garage lol) with ZERO window tint. The car spent its first 17 years or so of its life somewhere in Davids neck of the woods (according to CarFax). The rest, it spent in 120 in summer Phoenix, AZ, which was at seven years by the time I sold it. These pics are of that very RAV 4 and while the paint was faded six ways from Sunday, the body and frame were both solid and NOT ONE crack in the dash (or anywhere else for that matter), headliner droop, or otherwise faded material (save for the seat fabric of course). But yeah, that Toyota quality and reliability was soooo overrated. I just don't get why millions buy them every year. ? (As he tips out for the night)

@David is talking about Marchioni taking revenue from Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler, starving them of product, in order to resurect Alfa-Romeo which was a dead brand... 2012 to 2018 their only models were the MiTo super-mini and the Fiesta sized Guilitta

We're not getting the 160 hp version, so most of their complaints are addressed by that. Minimum hp is 100 hp more.

@oldshurst442 If Toyota was this super awesome best in class engineering powerhouse then we would not be seeing them buy back all of their first EV attempt due to a problem that Toyota is on record they do not know how or when they will fix it, so the 2,700 owners in the US here who bought the Toyota bZ4X have been pushed in selling them back to Toyota or are being put in a long term loaner as the auto's are parked at the dealerships awaiting an engineering fix that Toyota says they do not know when it will be fixed. Toyota's bZ4X recall isn't going great – company offers car buyback | Electrek Toyota recalls all its bZ4X electric cars over wheels potentially falling off | Electrek Does not matter who posts the story, the common theme is this is not going well for Toyota who is playing catchup to everyone else since they bet on Hydrogen rather than EV to be the consumers preference. Charged EVs | What does the bZ4X recall and buyback mean for Toyota’s EV efforts? - Charged EVs

I know I don't have some proof to back this up, but it just feels like you're using your anecdotal evidence to say that. While I don't think Toyotas are some magical world marvel that every one will last a million miles with minimal maintenance, I still find it hard to believe that they aren't in the top tier. They sell millions of vehicles every year solely based on reliability and I can't imagine they're all just getting burned on this by being completely average.

cool and all... but... Two things with that. Anecdotal evidence goes both ways. I got 4 very close acquaintances that owned Toyotas that had failures with them. 2 of those people are a Toyota sheeple that to this day defend their unreliable Toyotas. 1 is indifferent and the other swears to never buy another Toyota product ever again. An early 2000s Toyota Corolla owner whose dashboard cracked 3 years in, changed it for a mid 2000s Camry who had all kinds of electrical problems that prevented the car from starting several times but will never buy American because his dad bought a Chevy Citation that one time back in the summer of '82. Neighbour has a Venza, with constant transmission problems and is just now trading it in for another Toyota. A Hino owner whose endless problems including transmission problems prompted him to swear off Toyotas forever. A mid 2000s Toyota Sienna owner and yet again, another transmission problem. It exploded on him but is the type to not give a shyte. Bought a Honda minivan and the same thing happened to that Honda... transmission problems. Bought a Dodge minivan and is just as much as a POS as the other two. But like I said, he doesnt care about whining. He has kept the Dodge longer than either Japanese van, for whatever reason. But do my anecdotes count? Since anecdotes is what we are going with, have you owned a legit Fiat? Forget about my anecdote as it hasnt been my personal experience with Toyota, but since you wanna go with personal experiences, has a Fiat been in your ownership or is it just hearsay that Fiats suck? Listen, I know damn well that Fiats suck. Point being is that Toyotas are no more reliable than anybody else. Same issues, if not worse. Failing phoquing frames during the height of the supposed Toyota reliability thing (the late 1990s) is a huge phoquing thing. As big if not bigger than anything Detroit has done... Not a phoquing peep though how Toyota sucks, but that 80s Chev Citation thing...oh phoquing boy! Cadillac? How 'bout sticky Lexus pedals and engine sludges... Toyotas were rust buckets well into the 1990s. But lets defend Toyota until the ends of the earth. Boggles my mind with how much we allow Toyota to phoque up...

Alfa Romeo got 2 products on the same platform, which is now used for Jeep's #1 selling product. That didn't starve CDJR of product. The Alfa 4C was around before the merger as were the other cars you mentioned. Jeep got the Renegade, a replacement for that awful gen 1 Compass, the Cherokee, Dodge got the Dart, Chrysler the 200, Ram the Promaster and Promaster City. Fiat gave CDJR 7 new products.

If CDJR was so profitable, why was it that Fiat bought them and not the other way around? It was Fiat and Marchionne that bought CDJR. And it was Peugeot (PSA) who bought FCA. IF CDJR was such a powerhouse, they wouldn't have been taking over by a struggling company that was later taken over.

Stellantis didn't "steal money from American nameplates" Stellantis owns all these brands. Stellantis is a Netherlands based company trading on the French and Italian stock exchanges. Stellantis gives these brands a budget, pays the employees, etc. And Stellantis could wipe out half their brands without a single person losing their job, because they don't have Dodge employees, or Fiat employees, or Opel employees, they have Stellantis employees. And we already know Stellantis gave all these brands a budget and time to see which ones stick and which won't be needed. As Tesla takes more and more market share around the world, I predict a major reorganization (similar to GM 2008 minus the bankruptcy) happens at Stellantis. A lot of these brands will go away and they'll have a value brand, a luxury brand, an off road brand (Jeep) and a performance brand. This might be a 4 brand company in 2030.