CaddyXLR-V

Just because we don't think everything should be excessively regulated, that doesn't mean we don't want a government at all. How can you not complain about the government? Have you heard some of the things our senators say?

Their cheap because that's all they can afford. There's no way GM can compete on price with foreign automakers, that's not Bob Lutz fault. I'm sure GM would love to make cars as nice as VW's inside, and price them similarly too. The problem with that is that theres no way GM will sell enough small cars to keep the factories running. Unlike VW, GM has many, many plants in the US they need to keep running. How is GM supposed to compete with the Fit and Versa, when it would cost GM $15,000 to built a car they can only sell for $11,000?

Exactly. I know I haven't been on here as much as I used to. I used to keep hoping one day GM would wake up and turn Pontiac into what it should be, but we kept getting force-fed more G5's, and G6's, and now it seems there is no future for Pontiac. So with that, it seems like there is no future of me buying GM vehicles.

If there was no GTO, I would probably be driving a 350Z, 330Ci, or G35 coupe right now. So if GM stops making cars like the GTO, I will have no problem shopping elsewhere.

Fuel mixture too lean?

What would be easier, switching the Volt's gas engine to a fuel cell, or the Escapes? I think that is the point that is trying to be made here.

They are. And yes look at the Excitement brand. The G8 almost outsold the Aura despite having a much higher price. It's doesn't look like either saturn or buick is a more important brand to me, yet that's where the money is going.

Of course, GM will get rid of Pontiac. It seems like they always make the worst choice possible. How much did they spend on Saturn in the past couple of years, to still have their sales total less than half of Pontiacs? The day GM kills Pontiac, is the day I stop buying any of GM's cars, or even recommending them to anyone.

Not only that, but the GTO platform was probably the most solid out of any other GM sold here, excluding maybe Sigma. They were failures due to price, and styling. Not because their platform wasn't solid. The Epsilon Malibus aren't solid, my parents own one. Yet they sold 20k a month at one point. But the GTO is a failure because of an old platform? I'm sure the W-body is more ancient by a few decades, but I don't see that being called a failure.

Still won't matter. GM won't keep the marketshare it has, but at least they will actually have some control over their own business without the Unions telling them how many workers they need to hire. They will be able to make world class cars with no handicaps, the buyers will come.

GM has a mountain of debt, and the only way they will be able to compete in the long term is CH 11 bankruptcy(except not called a bankruptcy) with govt loans to keep the cash flowing while they restructure. UAW contracts voided, bond holders share in the losses, GM closes plants and lays off workers so they have the right # of workers and plants for their production.

Nothing for a long time. I'm buying investment property instead. When I am ready to buy again, I'm thinking either a Porsche 911 or a Lotus Exige, but it wont be for about 3-5 years.

It's simple. If GM competed with VW on every level, and priced their cars like VW, their marketshare would be nowhere close to where it is now. It would be more like VW's marketshare. The problem with that is, GM would have to close even more plants in the US. But wait! The UAW wont let them close more plants and layoff more workers. Anyone can figure out paying for 30+ plants, and workers for all those plants, while only using 5 plants, is a recipe for disaster. GM has been doing exactly what the market allows them to do, which is cheap out on everything they possibly can, to keep the price on their cars down, to keep the assembly lines going. If GM adds content to their cars, prices goes up. When prices goes up, sales go down. When sales go down, costs per vehicle go even higher. To cover those higher costs, prices go up again. Even lower sales. Bottom line, it's a vicious cycle, and it's the UAW that prevents them from getting out of it.

I've seen one in person. I can honestly say I would rather buy a Hyundai before I ever buy a G6 GXP.

Well in that case, shouldn't the Grand Prix be factored in, which sold 10k+ cars per month, at higher prices than the ION? They probably had the same fleet/retail % as well. If you want to see how weak Saturn is as a brand, look no further than the Outlook. Cheapest of the 3 Lambdas, but is still the slowest selling. Saturn has the newest lineup of GM, while Pontiac has close to the oldest.

I haven't gone below 26mpg average on a tank in my 99 Passat. It has 150k miles, needs new spark plugs, never use premium gas, and I always average 27-29mpg. According to the readout in the dash, I get better gas mileage at 40 mph than I do at 75 mph.

I don't think that's true. I think GM is just dropping out of the race. BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, they are all introducing higher horsepower models of their cars, and they don't seem to be cancelling or slowing their plans for them at all.

GTO - 19 Passat - 28 Mazda 626 - 26.5

Yes because Pontiac is CAR, and now that the market is shifting back to cars from trucks, doesn't it make sense to get rid of Pontiac? Lets get rid of the SRX too, since it almost outsold the Escalade for the month. There's a bunch of geniuses running GM right now isn't there?

I've been losing faith in GM for a while now. I don't think I will ever buy a GM car again if they kill Pontiac, except maybe the Corvette or CTS.

Well since Chevy is the value leader, they can keep the Corvette. It is the budget sports car anyway. Pontiac can have a car above the Corvette, with higher revving DOHC, DI, turbo engines and a higher price tag. Maybe even mid-engine. The rest of the plan is excellent though.

BMW, then Audi, then Infiniti

I'm considering selling mine, since I have driven it only about twice in the past 3 months due to gas mileage, and I'm still making payments on it. It still gets about 18-20 mpg, but that's quite a bit less than my Passat which gets around 28mpg.

The weakest part of the drivetrain is the driveshaft. It is a 2 piece driveshaft, and can only handle slightly over 400hp. If you plan on modding the car at all, you should plan on getting a one piece driveshaft. If you keep the car stock, it will hold up fine.

Yes it is. It should be Pontiac and Cadillac only. Who will buy a Buick Alpha? If GM keeps going down the path their going I'll be buying an Audi or a BMW.