oldshurst442

Au contraire I believe. I personally think that one contributing factor in the demise of Oldsmobile and Pontiac was BECAUSE GM went with the "corporate" engine route. Many loyal Pontiac and Oldsmobile fans and buyers never forgave GM for eliminating Oldsmobile's and Pontiac's right to produce their own engines. There were many loyal Pontiac and Oldsmobile engine fanatics that never really wanted or loved Chevrolet engines. The corporate V8 to this day is a Chevrolet V8... At least Oldsmobile designed the Northstar V8 and had its mark on V8s for GM, but the Northstar was touted and marketed as a Cadillac engine. The Aurora V8 was Oldsmobile's V8 which was a smaller displacement version of the "Cadillac Northstar"... it lacked cubic displacement, horsepower and torque in the road cars to actually make Oldsmobile fanboys happy and proud and ultimately keep them as clients. At least the engine had success in racing, but GM was using mixed marketing signals and wasnt clear as to which division the North star/Aurora really belonged to and which "version" had success in the racing programs of the 1990s. At least Oldsmobile also had a hand in GM's 4 cylinder development in keeping up with the times in the 1980s and well into the 1990s with the Quad 4...but the engine was ridiculed by the American automotive journalists for a lack of balance shafts and therefore less "refined" than the Japanese counterparts, which was a bunch of bullshyte...and which of course the Japanese jumped on that immediately with their advertisements in the American market... The bad thing about the Quad 4 was the gaskets leaked over a period of time...a problem that the Northstar had too... At least Oldsmobile also had hindsight to see the market perception of the need not only for 4 valves/cylinder DOHC V8 engines, and 4 bangers, but for 6 cylinders as well and the Shortstar was born. Based on the Northstar/Aurora V8... But, GM did not really advertise that Oldsmobile still produced engines for itself and those engines were "corporate" engines in effect... Poor old Pontiac though, had to concern itself in selling copy cat Chevrolet pony cars, it was always like that, but at least in the early 1970s, those were powered by pure Poncho engines, but by the time the 1980s rolled along, with a Pontiac fanboy's point of view, those awesome Firebirds/Trans Ams are not just shytty badge engineered Chevys with shytty Chevy engines underneath... And yes, along with the billions of dollars creating Saturn, and the billions in buying SAAB and trying to sustain both Saturn and SAAB, those 3 things had a huuuuuuge impact in the demise of Pontiac and Oldsmobile. And if we think clearly enough, many fans of those brands never came back to GM to buy Chevrolets or Buicks or Cadillacs. Not only did GM lose market share to the Japanese and Germans, because of the reasons we have discussed ad nauseam, but because of the decision from GM itself to consolidate its brands. GM underestimated the loyalty of its customers and arrogantly thought that just because Oldsmobile and Pontiac were under the GM umbrella, that Pontiac and Oldsmobile buyers were actually in fact, GM customers....for life... In other words, they believed their own marketing bullshyte in that a GM buyer will start life as a beginner and buy himself a Chevy, and as his finances grow, the customer will upgrade or graduate to Pontiac, then Oldsmobile, the Buick, then Cadillac... A good marketing strategy, but not really reality... Not a good thing when you start believing your own bullshyte...and yes...marketing in general is bullshyte...effective bullshyte...but bullshyte non the less... I personally believe, instead of spending billions on the billions they spent on trying to reverse the market share decline on compliance shyteboxes such as the X platform Citation and its badge engineered siblings, on the dumb decision to make a Cavalier into a Cadillac, (Nothing really wrong with the J platform), the crappy launch and the billions lost on the W-Body, the idiocy to develop a new kind of car company Saturn, the stupid decision to buy SAAB... Instead of all those BILLIONS lost and the result was MEDIOCRE to POOR and SHYTE vehicles, if GM had spent those BILLIONS on REALLY engineering GREAT cars INCLUDING keeping the AUTONOMOUS identity of ALL its BRANDS that were Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac and GMC, then market share would stabilize and probably grow...

These are nice. Im on my way in liking full sized pick-up trucks from Detroit...but I never really hated on these. Whether the Chevy or GMC or Caddy versions. I always kinda liked them. This new one seems to be refined more than ever before. And this is just the Chevy... The Denali and Caddy must really be awesome inside. The Cadillac really has to show up the Navigator because the Lincoln really really upped its game. And if the Caddy does that, it dont matter what Rolls and Bentley do...the Caddy will remain king of the big SUVs. On the exterior, just your basic Tahoe and 'Burban...and that is how it should be.

I like...cars. I like 1920s and 1930s cars. Some of them. I like some 1940s cars. I LOVE 1950s cars. I LOVE 1960s cars. I LOVE some 1970s cars. Others from the 1970s, not so much. I like some 1980s cars. Cars from my teenaged to adulthood years will always have a special place in my heart just because that is how it is. I like some 1990s cars and 2000s all the way to today. But the art of designing beautiful lines is all but gone. Different times. From how we as a people and society view the automobile all the way to how engineers and designers have to comply with aerodynamics for fuel efficiency and for safety. Design could still be beautiful, but we as a society appreciate that aspect a lot less as we as a society now view the automobile as a nuisance but necessary appliance. We dont value it more than we have to. We use to see it as freedom, now we see it as a burden. I love older cars because one could see and correlate the sign of the times in those older cars. As I LOVE rock-n-roll, I could see rock-n-roll in those 1950s fins. As I love airplanes, one could see the rise of the jet age in those 1950s and 1960s cars. The streamlining in the 1960s cars just gives those cars such beautiful, sleek lines. When designers got away from the fins and the bulky fenders, the cars got so low and wide and lean and long. Its the opposite of what is happening today. Cars are becoming massive, and tall and high. Ive said in the past that our SUVs and CUVs are starting to resemble late 1930s to 1940s cars. Only that they are not as long therefore this current crop of cars look frumpy as compared to the 1930s and 1940s cars. @Robert Hall said that the 1940s cars look like a bar of used soap. Well, he aint wrong, but that trend started in the 1990s all in the name of aerodynamic fuel efficiency's sake. And its gotten to where our current crop of cars resemble one another because computer calculated aerodynamic efficiency anywhere in the world will always come to the same conclusion as to which shape is the most efficient whether it be at GM in Detroit or GM in Korea or Tesla in California or Mercedes in Stuttgart or Nissan in California or Nissan in Japan... The artist designing cars gave way to a generic computer program. Not that there arent any interesting designed cars nowadays, but you got to admit, there were far more intersting designs back in the day... Kinda like music. Over the radio waves nowadays, its all formulaic sounds that rule...gone is the musician. Enter human psychology sound engineers with marketing executives with a computer background deciphering what set of musical notes will please the general population the most and voila...superstars with no ability to play any musical instrument, nor sing, but they look good, and sell "music" to folk, but also peddle their faces and bodies to other useless commodities that are marketed and produced in the same vein as their "music"... and those "celebrities" last a little over 6-7 years until the newest, freshest, cutest face comes along... So yeah...we could move forward...as fast as we could. @dfelt But that does NOT mean that moving forward actually means we as a species are actually moving forward, if you know what I mean...

About lead. He prefers lead sleds over EVs. We all know that. I prefer what came after those lead sleads...factory hot rods...aka Muscle Cars. And BEFORE those lead sleds. T-Buckets, '32 high boys (or low) and '33 roadster (or even 3 window coupe ) Ford Hot Rods. But...the new Mustang Mach-E seems quite the perplexing decision for a possible future purchase....for me that is... Well...first and foremost, its a CUV. A yuuuuuuge negative. Gargantuan I might even say. But its a "Mustang". Ive always (maybe not always) wanted a Mustang, but I dont really yearn for a high, 4 door Mustang. I yearn for a low, 2 door Mustang fastback coupe. The Mach-E is sorta a fastback though. But I want a V8. But...I could settle for an ecoboosted 4. But hey...the Mach-E has very fast electric motors in it embarrassing an ecoboosted 4....and that ecoboosted 4 toots along with more horses than Vanilla's five point oh... Electricity is quite a motivating energy source Id like to mention. Like I said....perplexing. Ah.....the joys of living in the 1st world when life altering decisions are about consumerism...wants versus needs... I think Blu is quite deAD sEt in his own little world to continue buying dino juice. Which is OK. Change might not be heading his way where he lives. At least not in the near future. I dont mind dino juice. It works quite well. I dont mind Zeus juice either. That too, works quite well. It is what it is.

Many Italians live in Corfu. Not far away from Brindisi, hence a ferry route between Brindisi and Corfu. My mom came from the island just below, the biggest in the Ionian. Kephalonia. I had a friend that came from Corfu, (his parents) and he often visited Italy when he went to Greece. Ive only been to Greece. Many times. But Im dying to visit Italy. My daughter has a Eurotrip in a couple of years, and guess what? Her trip for her graduating year is...Switzerland and...ITALY!!! She is sooooo happy. And I for her!!! If you havent seen the movie Captain Correlli's Mandolin, I suggest you see it. My mom's parents knew of the family (see it and you'll understand) and I have a friend or two that were extras in the movie. Thanks to the Romans, the Greek world survived. Rome conquered Greece, but because Rome wanted to model their empire along Greek culture, art, architecture, politics, language in trade routes, etc, the cradle of Western civilization has been credited to the Greeks, but 'twas the Romans that spread and KEPT Hellenism around more than the Greeks themselves could have ever imagined. So who conquered who??? LOL I guess both cultures realize this and both of our cultures greatly respect one another. This is what I adore. 1000s of years later and Italy tries to conquer Greece again, this time they lose, but because Germany had other plans, Greece fell to the Axis. When when the Italians became enemies of Germany, Greece and the Greeks protected the Italian soldiers from the Germans towards the end of the war. Una Faccia, una razza...1000s of years in the making... Sicily...if Im not mistaken, Poseidon's son Polyphemus, from the island of the Cyclops, from Homer's Odyssey, is said to be, Sicily.

OK...now Im all in.

I havent heard this song in like...4 ever!!! I had forgotten about it. THANK-YOU ENDLESSLY for posting it!!! And now, I am dancing with tears (of joy) in my eyes reminiscing about my youth. @trinacriabob If I wasnt Greek, and I didnt love being Greek so much, then my second choice of what Id wanna be, then Id wanna be Eye-Talian. Una facia, una razza! Ill double down on Send me an Angel

All cars are as posted. 1. 1970 Olds 442 W-30 with those rocket wheels instead of the Magnum wheels and preferably no wing...and no vinyl top either... 2. 1969 Plymouth Road Runner or GTX...preferably a Road Runner so I could honk the horn to hear it go...meep meep. 3. Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Redeye is optional. I dont care as long as its a Hellcat... 4. 1973 Pontiac Trans Am SD455 with white vinyl interior. 5. 1933 Ford Roadster Hot Rod with Ford's latest 5.2 liter V8. Not the Voodoo, but the new GT500 V8. An Ancient Greek mythological themed motif to compliment the Hot Rod look to it instead of the stereotypical flames and/or skulls... These would be numbers matching garage queens. Not babied by all means, they'd be driven, but not hard miles. I wouldnt pamper them too much, but Id be careful as well. If I was to replace those with clones and restomodded/pro-toured with modern set-ups, then Id daily drive all of them. One week one car, the following car next week and so forth.

Its gots to be all those residual checks that GM cashes in from movie royalties... The Chevy Suburban just got its Hollywood Walk of Fame Star a couple of days ago.... It is said that the Suburban has had a 60 year career and been in over 1750 movies...so...11 billion dollars/per year profit The year GM went bankrupt, there was a conspiracy against GM and Hollywood stopped re-running Smokey and the Bandit, The A-Team, Knight Rider...

I always listen to Dean Martin's version or Annie Lennox's

My dad HATED Bing Crosby. He told me he was a lowlife, drunken deadbeat dad, and wife beating husband. He never wanted to hear his songs in the house. But....I on the other hand, LOVE, LOVE his voice. I do NOT condone his behaviour, but his voice is just...so XMAS-y... Another voice that I love listening to during XMAS

Yes. Roberta Flack. Her version was a staple on the (Montreal) radio well into the late 1970s and very early 1980s. I think I saw the movie Play Misty for Me, although I do not remember if I saw it or not...and Fatal Attraction? With Michael Douglas? I saw that movie thrice. Once on VHS when it came out. Another on DVD sometime in the late 1990s and last year I got my hands on it again. But I do not remember hearing the song in the movie... But yeah...I LOVE this song and her version!

^^^ Not bad... good and powerful voice. Nice and soft, as it supposed to be sung. I still prefer the original, though.

Many corporations today, rely on shytty social media and even shyttier comment sections (I have come to an understanding, corporations have been doing this kind of marketing for at least a decade now...) to see where public perception is heading...) Focus groups and internet comment sections seem to direct CEOs nowadays on what and how products are to be launched... Its just a theory that I have. Oh...I KNOW that corporations have social media marketing personnel on their payroll...and I also know that they rely on the internet for data... GM on the C8 for instance, when they launched the C8 in July, Tadge DID mention how that online reveal had a million views, or whatever the figure was and how for the days following, the Chevy website nearly crashed because they had a record amount of visitors playing with the C8 price build... So its kinda logical that these internet marketing people also look at the comments sections to get a feel of what folk are saying about GM's image and the C8 and V8s and EVs and shyte!!! Call me crazy, but I KNOW I am unto something...

What Dfelt said... And people are NOT indifferent to EVs in MY neck of the woods. I said about 8 months ago that I see 5 different Tesla Model 3s each and every day here. Well, 8 months later, like as of now, that figure went up. I see at least 7-8 DIFFERENT Model 3s each and every day on a SHORT commute to work. And no, the Tesla store is no where near where I live and work. There is only one Tesla store in case you are asking... //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Back to the thread...but with an EV flavour. I think GM is cutting all these sedans because so they could focus full force on bringing out EVs. Barra said that she wants GM to be the world's leader in EVs... The 2.3 billion dollar venture with LG Chem and a creation of 1100 jobs while closing down ICE factories and laying off ICE workers should signal to all of us what is going on with GM... Killing off the CT6, waisting billions on it and the Blackwing while telling us that the Blackwing costs money is just a smoke screen. I think, they are killing the Blackwing NOT because it costs money...I think GM brass want to distance Cadillac from the internal combustion engine as much as they can. The Blackwing is a start. Its a "gas guzzling V8". It does not look good with PR with EV sheeple to have a brand new gas guzzling V8 in the stable when in a couple of years, an onslaught of Cadillac EVs are gonna launch... I have come to this conclusion after reading comments from product launches from GM. The C8 and the Blackwing CT6. Also Autoline Detroit... There are MANY comments made by EV trolls, that diss the V8s...or even the rotary engine. They say all kinds of dumb things such as "why invest in ICE when electrics are the future?" Or "dino tech that sucks gas spews emissions" Or "0-60 in xx seconds, quarter mile yy seconds? HA! Stuopid GM for wasting billions on outdated technology...Telsa Model XYZ is faster...blah blah blah..." My personal opinion is this... Its a damned shame that GM spent billions to finally create a SEDAN worthy of the Cadillac badge, (big, brawny, V8, RWD sedan) only to kill it, yet again with this pattern, only to invest billions more on something that may be just a pipe dream, because even though in MY neck of the woods, people seems to want EVs, there are other woods dar from where I am, that are dead set against EVs... And Cadillac, whether Barra wants Cadillac to be a leader in EVs, and I have no doubt that Cadillac can and WILL produce something to embarrass Tesla and now the Mustang Mach-E, Cadillac is STILL all about the big badass V8 car. The Blackwing is that...

https://www.wardsauto.com/ideaxchange/evs-not-easier-build-will-cut-jobs Factories will close. Jobs are gonna be lost. In areas where ICE is concerned. Radiator manufacturing, water pumps, oil pan construction and the like. But new factories are gonna be built where a different type of worker will be needed...a worker that knows about electrical components and electricity and stuff...

Should have been written...nearly 10 years ago. 9 years to the day almost to be exact...

I watched this Jay Leno Garage video about a couple of weeks ago when it was released. This thread was created nearly 20 years ago. 19 years to the day almost to be exact... Id say this is cool that @dfelt just posted how he wants an Aero Monte-Carlo in this thread...

I believe GM is still being coy, very coy, about the CT6. They havent confirmed whether the CT6 is dead, nor confirmed that the CT6 is NOT dead. Ever since GM first mentioned the CT6's future, the statement was vague. Interpretation good be made either way and then speculation came from speculators but not one speculating source really knows what is up with the CT6... Same as with the Camaro.

Youtube suggestions....so I decided to click on it. Pretty accurate and honest journalism for big American cars sold in Britain for 1973 and 1974.

Not entirely true. Maybe a 1 point 3 liter turbo tri cylinder could be called a performance package. But in my honest and most humble opinion, I think these here 4 horsepers are more unbridled and hence....more performance oriented... I think this new CUV is missing quite a few things... I was a teenager in the malaise era 1980s, and it seems like we are already witnessing mid to late 1970s and 1980s performance garbage again... But hey!!! We got wireless charging cup holders now! YIPPE THE FREAKING HEE!!! *SIGH*

My daughter this year has music as a course. Secondary 3 high school. Grade 9 if you will for Canucks...or last year in junior high for Americans? Anyway, she picked the trumpet to learn. Next week, she has her first concert in the school band. XMAS concert. She is nervous.

I never really cared for these. Then and now. Sorry Drew. But Id have to agree with Balthy, the Riviera looks best. I like the way the rear quarter panel on the Riviera is curvy as compared to a straight line in the Toronado and Eldorado. I prefer the Riviera's front end and grill over the other two, although the Cadillac "face" is pretty too. I do prefer the Eldorado's rear over the other 2 but the Riviera's rear aint too shabby. But something about them I dont like. I do not know what it is. I just dont...like them. I prefer the G-Body even though the G-Body is lower on the ladder. What is even more weird is that I prefer the successor models from 1986-1991 over that generation as well. A 1990 and 1991 Toronado Trofeo would be my ultimate.

I was projecting my biases towards the Grand Prix over the other W-Bodies with that post. In 2005, when I traded in my Alero for the Impala because I needed a more comfortable family car to fit my growing family in, kids and stuff, (my Alero was the coupe...4 doors were not necessarily needed but appreciated) I could no longer buy the Oldsmobile W-Body anymore as the Intrigue was no longer. (bye bye in 2002) The Buick Allure (the Lacrosse in Canada) was a tad old man-ish so that one was out of the question immediately. So that left the Pontiac and the Chevy. Yes...I did indeed want a W-Body. I did want the supercharged 3.8. Had the Intrigue been available (new), Id would want the Shortstar and seeing that Oldsmobiles were sporty and luxury, but more luxury than sporty, and seeing that I was an Oldsmobile guy, the Intrigue and Oldsmobile as a brand fit beautifully in my image. But alas, Pontiac or Chevy was the only 2 W-Bodies that I could see myself driving. (Not the Allure...) The Grand Prix...I preferred the original launch of that generation. Exterior and interior. But the refresh was welcomed by me so that was a moot point. The Impala (2005)...I LOVED the exterior styling over that generation Grand Prix (2005), but that wasnt the reason why I chose the Impala over the Grand Prix. It really was what I wrote above. I knew the red interior lighting would eventually wear me down. Both Chevy and the Pontiac had cheap plastic interiors, none of which bothered me then, nor now, but, I knew that BECAUSE that console was angled for the driver's benefit, I felt claustrophobic in it. The Alero and Intrigue were like that too, but it was more subtle. The Grand Prix's center console was also very clunky. The Intrigue's center console was more "luxurious" if you will as well. The materials used in Oldsmobiles at that time were better than the other GM brands save for Cadillac. Id say, Oldsmobile was very close to Cadillac in that time, being the late 1990s all the way to Olds' death. On a side note, I feel very claustrophobic in my Acura today. Clunky console and interior as well... I preferred the openness of the Impala's interior... And lastly, I seem to recollect that you sit down low in the Grand Prix as compared to the Impala, and I preferred a more higher seating position. THAT is why I would have bought the Intrigue instead had the Intrigue been around in 2005 when I bought the Impala...

Yes. Please elaborate Drew. But I will guess on why she will hate it eventually as I have a good idea. The red interior lighting will start to become annoying. The clunky and plasticky dashboard and console will get on her nerves. Especially the way its angled towards the driver. Sure, its a GREAT driver oriented and focused console, but that only benefits enthusiastic and spirited drivers. Im guessing she is not the spirited and enthusiastic kinda driver. I havent been in a GP in a long time, but If I remember correctly, you sit lower in it than, lets say, a W-Body Impala of the same vintage. Like my 2005 Impala SS for instance. And seeing that this is a CUV type world, sitting low while having high CUVs around you gets frustrating real quick if you aint into that sorta thing.