surreal1272

Sorry but I'm going to stop you right there. You clamor on and on when you can tout MBs sales superiority. Comparing the XT5 to the DTS is just beyond ignorant and just plain dumb. Also, acting like the Euro market is the barometer for performance shows your blindness right there. The XT5 is just as capable of success there as the FWD GLA does here. Bringing up dynamics shows that you know next to nothing about how most Cadillacs actually drive these days. While the snob crowd can knit pick silly things like how a damn dash board feels (who the hell is touching their dash while their driving anyway?), they cannot knock the driving dynamics of the alpha and omega platforms. It's just plain ignorant for you to even bring that up just because you think Europe is the be all, end all in determining how good a car is. Good grief.

Yup...you are right! You build cars...just not diesel powered ones.... Lie. Cheat. Steal. That is what any sane company should do? Price of beef is sky high where Im at in my neck of the woods... Ive got government regs up my ass to conform to hygiene and food safety...(I own a hot dog joint, it makes good money) Ive got rules to follow concerning employees, their salary, their employment and their well being... According to you...I should just skip any law that I deem to be over-reaching and unreasonable? (Because there are many....) So...I should get my meat from roadkill and stray dogs and cats so I could boost my profits....Because the price of beef is sky high...(the air that you breathe is just as important...) You could argue all day long about airplanes and boats and factories spewing all kinds of crap in the air while I could do the same for all the crooked bankers and CEOs out there.... Laws are NOT meant to be broken....and if they are....DONT GET CAUGHT!!! VW got caught. End of story. Sure mate, it's the American way. Tax on tea went up a penny, we revolted, threw the buggers out. And it's been that way ever since. It isn't as if VW built naturally aspirated diesels with open exhausts. The engine was clean just not California clean. No harm, no foul. It really is more important that automobiles remain cheap enough for common people to purchase. Otherwise we risk the government taxing autos out of existence or into the hands of the very rich. And I wouldn't like that very much. You do realize that Germany, where they are headquartered, also burned them for their deceit right? What's the excuse there?

Cadillacs are completely competitive in design, amenities, tech, mileage, & performance.The Germans have been 'caught' in the major segments. ^^This! What else would you expect him to say though?

No. You're really not when you wish for the demise of an American car company.

If you love bad press on American car company, then do not ever call yourself a car fan.

There have already been dismissals as well for those Impala spindle suits for same reasons already mentioned, prebankruptcy GM. The courts that dismissed a few of those cases did that specifically for that reason.

GM, in a sense, opened the can and set the precedent themselves when they recalled the 2007/8 Police Impalas for the faulty spindle rods, then shun the civilian models of the same yrs claiming GM has no responsibility as those cars where built by old GM. Fleet contracts supersede that (hence the reason for the recall) and make it completely unrelated to civilian models. Apples to oranges. I'd be interested in seeing the clause in a fleet contract that supersedes GM's bankruptcy. The GM of '07/'08 no longer legally exists, so any contract someone may hold with that company would be null and void. Very true. Didn't consider that. It does not change the fact that you can't use their fleet deal to make a case for going after them.

GM, in a sense, opened the can and set the precedent themselves when they recalled the 2007/8 Police Impalas for the faulty spindle rods, then shun the civilian models of the same yrs claiming GM has no responsibility as those cars where built by old GM. Fleet contracts supersede that (hence the reason for the recall) and make it completely unrelated to civilian models. Apples to oranges.

Do they have the same leadership group(s)? Do those other companies have the same leadership groups prior to and post bankruptcy? Many companies who do what GM did, do have the same board, executives as they dump their debt and rebuild. Trump did this 5 major times on destorying other companies just for his own personal wealth building. So people should be able to go after his money then. Just like they are allowing here now. Per your Trump analogy. Donald has never declared personal BK. His corporation are all that has ever filed for Chapter 11. Therefore no court in the world would ok going after his personal wealth. His point is still valid. They can't go after bankrupt GMs money anymore than they could go after Trumps corporations. He didn't say go after Trumps corporations. He said go after his wealth. I know that and acknowledged that. It doesn't change the end result is my point. Good grief.

Do they have the same leadership group(s)? Do those other companies have the same leadership groups prior to and post bankruptcy? Many companies who do what GM did, do have the same board, executives as they dump their debt and rebuild. Trump did this 5 major times on destorying other companies just for his own personal wealth building. So people should be able to go after his money then. Just like they are allowing here now. Per your Trump analogy. Donald has never declared personal BK. His corporation are all that has ever filed for Chapter 11. Therefore no court in the world would ok going after his personal wealth. His point is still valid. They can't go after bankrupt GMs money anymore than they could go after Trumps corporations.

Given the area, I'm surprised they were going the right direction. I have never lived in an area with so many wrong way driver accidents. oh and mmmmmm...Rock Springs Cafe pie. Yummy!

Real easy to turn a profit when you get to rely on Jeep and RAM to make up for the rest of your $h!ty Italian product. If only Musk had that to fall on.

I've read my history and to make any kind of comparison of Tesla to Hitler is just very careless and honestly, quite ignorant. No it is not.it was more a comparison to Germany. Germany in the war was more advanced than any of the Allied powers. They were first with the Jet, They had the lead on rockets and they were ahead on the bomb. Just as Tesla is in the lead on EV vehicles Germany was ahead in technology in the war. In the end the Allies had something Germany did not have. More natural resources and more man power. While they lacked the advanced things in the war they were able to out build and catch up technically as the war went on because they were bigger and had more to fall back on. Most major automaker has more money and ability in their R&D than Tesla. Also the major automakers can afford to make cheaper models like the Bolt fully loaded and still not make money on them and survive. Telsa has to make a major profit on anything that rolls out the door or they will pay the price. They have not trucks, suv's and any ICE models to pay the bills. If you know your history then you know what I am pointing out here. It is not about Hitler so much as it was about the size and advancement of Germany. They were ahead technically but in the end they still lost the war. Just a simple illustration. Note too after Germany fell the Allies came in and fought for the things Germany had to offer them. We got the rockets and some advanced aero technology from them. It spurred the technical growth of America from the 50's to today. Hitler? Germany?One and the same and completely off base in the manner that you using it. Sorry, I don't take the comparisons very lightly when it comes to Nazi Germany unless there is a direct comparison to be had. In the case of comparing Nazi Germany to Tesla, way off base and very short sighted IMO. Oh and it has been proven that Germany had little more than paper planning when it came to the bomb claim. The fool who claimed they did ten years ago has been thoroughly debunked.http://m.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/a-346293.html That's all I'm going to say about it. Time to stop being overly sensitive of history. Much to be learned by it good and bad in many parts of our lives. As for the story the key wording in the story states "If these theories were accurate, history would have to be rewritten" The fact is there were many what if's in the war. If Hitler has not ignored the technology he had as much as he did things would have been much different. That is not a theory. No matter if you like the example or not it illustrates the fact that you can hold an advantage on technology yet due to your size and mistakes still lose in the end. I am sure you get the point no matter if you like it or not! Many times the true statement is bigger is better in cases like this Imagine Tesla getting hit with some kind of major recall. You know the kind like GM had on the Cobalt and VW on the Diesels. That would put an end to Tesla right now. And don't be naive to say it could not happen. Just not enough company to absorb that kind of action. It has not one damn thing to do with being "overly sensitive". It was a completely of touch and out of context comparison to begin with. It's that simple. The rest of your post is just trying to put words into my mouth which doesn't even merit a response.

I've read my history and to make any kind of comparison of Tesla to Hitler is just very careless and honestly, quite ignorant. No it is not.it was more a comparison to Germany. Germany in the war was more advanced than any of the Allied powers. They were first with the Jet, They had the lead on rockets and they were ahead on the bomb. Just as Tesla is in the lead on EV vehicles Germany was ahead in technology in the war. In the end the Allies had something Germany did not have. More natural resources and more man power. While they lacked the advanced things in the war they were able to out build and catch up technically as the war went on because they were bigger and had more to fall back on. Most major automaker has more money and ability in their R&D than Tesla. Also the major automakers can afford to make cheaper models like the Bolt fully loaded and still not make money on them and survive. Telsa has to make a major profit on anything that rolls out the door or they will pay the price. They have not trucks, suv's and any ICE models to pay the bills. If you know your history then you know what I am pointing out here. It is not about Hitler so much as it was about the size and advancement of Germany. They were ahead technically but in the end they still lost the war. Just a simple illustration. Note too after Germany fell the Allies came in and fought for the things Germany had to offer them. We got the rockets and some advanced aero technology from them. It spurred the technical growth of America from the 50's to today. Hitler? Germany?One and the same and completely off base in the manner that you using it. Sorry, I don't take the comparisons very lightly when it comes to Nazi Germany unless there is a direct comparison to be had. In the case of comparing Nazi Germany to Tesla, way off base and very short sighted IMO. Oh and it has been proven that Germany had little more than paper planning when it came to the bomb claim. The fool who claimed they did ten years ago has been thoroughly debunked. http://m.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/a-346293.html That's all I'm going to say about it.

I've read my history and to make any kind of comparison of Tesla to Hitler is just very careless and honestly, quite ignorant.

Really? That's your big differentiating statement between two? Might as well have just been sticking out your tongue while you were doing that.

Oh good grief Sauve. Stop being a drama queen about it. You know full well how badge snobbery works and to me, that is a sheep mentality. There is no other way to put it. Ok Surreal, I am not being a drama queen. You get riled up too easily, especially for this, where I'm just sharing my dream and life experiences. If you do not like story time, then I can't help you here, and you can keep opinions to yourself, because I don't like being called out for stuff that ISN'T bull$h!. Seems like it's you that's getting riled up because it sure isn't me. Where anywhere did I call you out on your post as being "bull$h!"? That's all you Sauve. I am speaking from my experience as well so to simply dismiss mine because you think your "storytime" is more important or relevant or whatever you think it is so much that you feel slighted by my response, is rather short sighted and honestly kind of childish. Just saying.and my point about this has always been about the buses mentality and it can just as easily applied to the out of touch douchebags that clamped for the also way overpriced H1 while never using it for what it was designed for. It's all about that "I got to have this cachet time" SHEEP mentality.

Oh good grief Sauve. Stop being a drama queen about it. You know full well how badge snobbery works and to me, that is a sheep mentality. There is no other way to put it.

Yes we can but you know there is a big difference between first year and five year depreciation and it doesn't take away from my sheep remark given the evidence I presented. Depreciation % makes a buyer a sheep? GMC Yukon is on the top ten list of 5 year depreciation %, Chevy Impala, CTS, MKS are all on two of the top 10 depreciation lists I saw.. I don't think any Lincoln buyer is a following some trend obliviously. That's a lot of sheep out there then. Should have rephrased that. I am not connecting depreciation to one being a sheep (thought that was obvious but clearly it wasn't). It's what mentioned earlier that makes one a sheep. If the only reason you are buying an outdated SUV is because of the badge, then yes you are being a sheep. That would apply to any badge btw.

Yes we can but you know there is a big difference between first year and five year depreciation and it doesn't take away from my sheep remark given the evidence I presented.

So why ever buy any BMW/MB over a Corvette, Mustang, Fusion, Impala, Edge,? "dynamics" don't make a car "better". They have less room, less efficient, if one metric is better..like lateral grip.. does that make it better and worth buying over an Impala or Camry? "Better" is an relative term. Better for you is different than better for me. What SUVs do what the G does and does it better? There are only a few SUVs that even compete in the category the G does. Range Rover, Wrangler, Land Cruiser and they are all over the place in comparison to each other. Nobody looking for a Mercedes is thinking of a Jeep or Toyota. Heck those two are slow as balls in comparison to a G550. Maybe the customer wants a Land Cruiser but they want some balls under the hood. If you are buying an luxury SUV for its "balls", then you are buying the wrong type of vehicle. I stand by my assertion, even though I do see what you're getting at but you cannot deny the sheep mentality towards something like that when there are better options. A Land Cruiser has plenty of power and has a far better rep off road and it is unsurpassed in the reliability and high resale department. The drop off on the G wagon after just a few years is insane. Why does it have to be the wrong type of vehicle? Why can't a vehicle run a mid-low 14's in the 1/4(g550) and still be able to rock crawl with a Wrangler off the showroom floor? Sheep will flock to ANYTHING that is rare/exotic with a label to it though. Hell, people are going to buy those nasty GLC Coupes, GLE Coupes, X4's, X6's... I bet A LOT of it is because the brand. But the G Wagen actually has some very impressive capabilities both in straight line performance and off the beaten path. Toyota HANDS DOWN has a great rep for reliability but this Land Cruiser is an 8 seater.. That's a big-ass SUV compared to a G Wagen. Hard to even compare them other than their off-road worthiness. I'm not sure what the resale will be on an 85k Toyota but it'll likely be dog$h! a long with anything else in this price range and up. G Wagens don't have a terrible resale considering. Alright, I randomly KBB'd a 2005 G500 and Land Cruiser @150,000 miles and the only option box I checked was the color and I made them both black. Both to private parties and both "good" condition(middle choise) Land Cruiser: $12,702 G500: $23,283 Same thing for 2010 but 100,000 miles instead. Land Cruiser: $31,746 G550: $44,723 Seems like they both keep roughly the same % away from each other as they depreciate. The Land Cruiser has one of the highest resale values out there. It shames any Mercedes in that category. Sorry but no one is exploiting that 0-60 time or the 1/4 mile with that G Wagon. It only sells because of the badge on the hood, hence my sheep assessment. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2013/11/18/cars-that-return-top-resale-values/#314f9a98d36f I found this as well which covers the resale value of the G Wagon in a nutshell (while comparing it to the Land Cruiser). "ALG, a company that tracks vehicle residuals, says both the G550 and G63 AMG will retain just 34 percent of their values after five years of ownership. That’s better than a Range Rover (25-30 percent) but well below the Toyota Land Cruiser (41 percent). Research firm Intellichoice, which tracks cost of ownership including depreciation and maintenance, rates the G-Class as “Poor,” saying this SUV will cost well above the class average to own over five years." http://carpreview.com/mercedes-benz/g-class/2015/review

So aside from the V12, Benz is just doing what GM did with the Hummer H1 for years as far as cachet and Hollywood appeal went. How'd that work out for GM btw?

From my perspective, if one can find better options for far less money but only buy the overpriced one because of the badge on the hood, that is the very definition of being a sheep.I understand.. but kind of disagree.. That would put Audi, BMW, MB, Bentley, Rolls... all out of business. Yes, nobody makes cars like Rolls does but "for the money" they are as overpriced as they come because you could buy an Impala and have it all customed to make it uber luxurious for waaaaaay less than the 250k+ or whatever it costs. There is an awkward medium in there. There's no medium here. If there are far better SUVs out there for far less money (and there are) yet your average Benz buyer still flocks to the G? Sheep. So why ever buy any BMW/MB over a Corvette, Mustang, Fusion, Impala, Edge,? "dynamics" don't make a car "better". They have less room, less efficient, if one metric is better..like lateral grip.. does that make it better and worth buying over an Impala or Camry? "Better" is an relative term. Better for you is different than better for me. What SUVs do what the G does and does it better? There are only a few SUVs that even compete in the category the G does. Range Rover, Wrangler, Land Cruiser and they are all over the place in comparison to each other. Nobody looking for a Mercedes is thinking of a Jeep or Toyota. Heck those two are slow as balls in comparison to a G550. Maybe the customer wants a Land Cruiser but they want some balls under the hood. If you are buying an luxury SUV for its "balls", then you are buying the wrong type of vehicle. I stand by my assertion, even though I do see what you're getting at but you cannot deny the sheep mentality towards something like that when there are better options. A Land Cruiser has plenty of power and has a far better rep off road and it is unsurpassed in the reliability and high resale department. The drop off on the G wagon after just a few years is insane.

From my perspective, if one can find better options for far less money but only buy the overpriced one because of the badge on the hood, that is the very definition of being a sheep. I understand.. but kind of disagree.. That would put Audi, BMW, MB, Bentley, Rolls... all out of business. Yes, nobody makes cars like Rolls does but "for the money" they are as overpriced as they come because you could buy an Impala and have it all customed to make it uber luxurious for waaaaaay less than the 250k+ or whatever it costs. There is an awkward medium in there. There's no medium here. If there are far better SUVs out there for far less money (and there are) yet your average Benz buyer still flocks to the G? Sheep.

From my perspective, if one can find better options for far less money but only buy the overpriced one because of the badge on the hood, that is the very definition of being a sheep.