surreal1272

Remember, this claim is coming from the same guy who sees nothing wrong with vans being sold and serviced on the same lot as an S Class.

Anyway, this is getting away from the topic which is the Envision. Carry on folks.

And it's simply awesome that a luxury car maker can pay some Alabama employees over $40 less an hour to put together the same damn cars as their German counterparts. BMW is just as guilty of it.

And I quote, " Ford has made good profits lately, what did they do? They spent $1.6 Billion to build a factory in Mexico and create 2,800 jobs in Mexico. So those F150 profits are going straight to Mexico. They could have invested those dollars in a new factory in Michigan or Indiana, but they didn't." You certainly implied as much and even if you didn't you are still way off base because you literally are ignoring the billions they have and continue to invest in the US. Again, profits always go to the home team. Where they distribute it out from there is of no consequence since that is what ALL manufacturers do. I won't oblige the rest of your post because it also means nothing and you have completely sidestepped your favorite company's role in destroying an American brand while railing against the new owners who have at least invested in the damn product, as misguided as it has been. Daimler did exactly jack $h! for Chrysler other than let it wither and damn near die.

Once again, you need to get your facts straight. Most of the Lincoln dealerships are stand alone. That wasn't always the case but they are now.Oh and nice troll remark in the middle there. Classy </sarcasm> Actually Surreal, I have to disagree with you on the stand alone dealerships. On the west coast, I ONLY FIND FORD / Lincoln Dealerships with BOTH auto's on the same showroom floor. I have yet to see let alone be in a stand alone Lincoln Dealership.Just a few miles from my house is the Harris Ford Lincoln Dealership. They just finished a major remodel and expanded their one big showroom floor to show off both Lincoln and Ford side by side. HarrisFordLincolnDealership.jpg Negative vote aside, I have seen nothing but dedicated dealers in the Phoenix Valley and most of the ones I saw back east were the same way (lived in NC for 35 years). Point being that SMKs claim of 10% is pure trolling bull&#036;h&#33;.Also of note, I did say that there were still some like the ones you mentioned so why that merited a down vote, I haven't the foggiest.

*wreck Chrysler...

The real irony in SMK going after FCA for what they've been doing to Chrysler/Jeep is that what FCA is doing to wreck is nothing compared to what Daimler did to them a decade ago. Where was their investment in America then?

Note the others are not putting out Beta units and letting the people do the development work. Tesla is no more important than any other new energy break through. The problem is people are putting all their chips on Tesla and if they go south in failure they could damage the entire EV moment. As of now they have helped but they are far from being out of the woods yet. The simple matter of making money is something that at some point the investors will demand. Oh and what I mean is a profit on products not carbon credits or income from government funding. I am not a Musk fan but I do not want to see Tesla fail as it will hurt all the EV makers in image with the public. This autonomous feature is just not ready for prime time. I think it is a mistake for makers to remove so much of the driver they become even more distracted while they still need to remain engaged as to what is going on if they are holding the wheel or not. God knows my braking system in my car gets enough false signals as it is. I had to shut it off as it was a total pain in the Ass. It really hates cars on side road joining the main road on a curve. It see's the car and then reacts to it though it is not even in my path of travel. I guess it is better it to work than not work like the Tesla but tell that to the guy behind me that got brakes checked. Really? So you think when the others get that tech out there (and it's coming real soon btw), that their tech will have NO issues and NO problems the will lead to that very same problem? Do you not think that it will not also be considered "beta"? If so, then I have a bridge to sell you.

More like idiot driver not following simply instructions that are clearly laid out on the screen in a Tesla. For example, keep your hands on the wheel and stop watching movies while in the drivers seat (which what he was doing btw). While the death sucks, it is a reminder to read the damn manual and always pay attention to the road. No exceptions.

Also, what is ignored by SMK is the role unions played in killing the steel industry in Pittsburgh. Of course, that has to be s fault too.

Well said. What he fails to also see is that what did Pittsburgh do to try and get that GM steel plant that SMK mentions? The answer here is nothing.

So you're going to fault only GM for doing what almost every company did in Pittsburgh in the 80s, which was bail out of town to cheaper lands?

You can literally Google "GM plant investments" and see one plant after another getting more money for their plants. Translation, you are wrong SMK.

Then there's your problem right there. You should care where the profits are going because profits kept here means profits that are spent here. It's a real simple concept actually and how you fail to see that is beyond me.Oh and thanks for proving your hypocrisy on the countries of origin remark. That literally makes no damn sense. Who says they have to spend the profits here? Companies outsource and move things overseas all the time to save money, and thus make higher profits. Ford has made good profits lately, what did they do? They spent $1.6 Billion to build a factory in Mexico and create 2,800 jobs in Mexico. So those F150 profits are going straight to Mexico. They could have invested those dollars in a new factory in Michigan or Indiana, but they didn't.FCA has turned profit the last couple years, did they invest it in the USA? No, they discontinued the 200 and Dart, laid off workers in those factories, and the Compass/Patriot are to be replaced by a single model, built in a new factory in Mexico. I also found a story form December 2014 stating that GM would invest $3.6 billion to double their production capacity in Mexico and create 5,600 new jobs in Mexico. This idea that you buy an American brand car and the money gets invested back into America is a joke. Buying a Buick Envision is supporting job growth in China and Mexico, they are stealing our jobs, they are stealing our money, and I am not voting for Trump either. I do support free trade between all these countries, because the consumer always has the choice to buy what they want to buy. And I wouldn't buy a car from China, and I won't buy one from Mexico. Dude you have to stop. Money kept here, not overseas, is more likely to be spent here. Those profits go to folks here eventually, not overseas. It's that damn simple. That is all because you have no argument here.One last thing. You made my point by bringing up FCA and why it was always a bad deal. It's an Italian owner company so course, DUH, the money goes to Italy. Oh and F150s have and always will be made in Michigan. Class dismissed. F150 is made in the USA because they have high margins on them. High margin products are the last to leave. Low margin products like sedans are being shipped to Mexico, factories in the USA closing down. GM and Ford aren't building new factories here, or hiring more workers here, that stuff is getting sent away where land and labor rates are cheaper.If you buy Nabisco cookies and Oreos that are also now made in Mexico (which should be shipped to the USA in the trunks of Ford Fusions to save on transportation costs) you are supporting Mexican jobs. Nabisco didn't spend their profits on the 600 people in Chicago that lost their jobs. That is the issue here, the money isn't KEPT in the USA, these companies, whether it be cars, cookies, shoes or clothing sell products made outside of the USA buy people making $5 an hour so that the executives in the USA can pad their bonus, and the stock holders can get paid a dividend. And the more jobs they ship over seas, the more profit they make. If someone drives a Buick Envision and it is their favorite car in the world, then they should buy it because they like the car. They shouldn't buy any GM or Ford car thinking that it will help the American economy any more than buying a Toyota will help the American economy. Admit your mistake for once in your life. You just said on one post that the F150 was produced in Mexico when it has never been made anywhere outside of Michigan or Indiana. Now you're just bad moving, once again, to prove a point that only you give a crap about. Again, your delusion and obvious bitterness towards GM has clouded you from the fact that GM has invested plenty in this country while recognizing, just like Daimler, that they have to expand production of certain vehicles to other countries. Your hypocrisy on that simple fact is astounding.

Failure to understand a world economy is SMKs fault even when he is trying to deflect from the fact that his favorite brand does the same damn thing. So what? That is stil a high percentage regardless and is a forebear to the fact that China will every rally be producing those as well.

Once again, you need to get your facts straight. Most of the Lincoln dealerships are stand alone. That wasn't always the case but they are now.Oh and nice troll remark in the middle there. Classy </sarcasm>

Then there's your problem right there. You should care where the profits are going because profits kept here means profits that are spent here. It's a real simple concept actually and how you fail to see that is beyond me.Oh and thanks for proving your hypocrisy on the countries of origin remark. That literally makes no damn sense. Who says they have to spend the profits here? Companies outsource and move things overseas all the time to save money, and thus make higher profits. Ford has made good profits lately, what did they do? They spent $1.6 Billion to build a factory in Mexico and create 2,800 jobs in Mexico. So those F150 profits are going straight to Mexico. They could have invested those dollars in a new factory in Michigan or Indiana, but they didn't.FCA has turned profit the last couple years, did they invest it in the USA? No, they discontinued the 200 and Dart, laid off workers in those factories, and the Compass/Patriot are to be replaced by a single model, built in a new factory in Mexico. I also found a story form December 2014 stating that GM would invest $3.6 billion to double their production capacity in Mexico and create 5,600 new jobs in Mexico. This idea that you buy an American brand car and the money gets invested back into America is a joke. Buying a Buick Envision is supporting job growth in China and Mexico, they are stealing our jobs, they are stealing our money, and I am not voting for Trump either. I do support free trade between all these countries, because the consumer always has the choice to buy what they want to buy. And I wouldn't buy a car from China, and I won't buy one from Mexico. Dude you have to stop. Money kept here, not overseas, is more likely to be spent here. Those profits go to folks here eventually, not overseas. It's that damn simple. That is all because you have no argument here.One last thing. You made my point by bringing up FCA and why it was always a bad deal. It's an Italian owner company so course, DUH, the money goes to Italy. Oh and F150s have and always will be made in Michigan hence their last investment in MICHIGAN for the aluminum F150. I cannot believe you spout that BS. It's their small cars that get built in Mexico, not their bread and butter trucks. You just have to stop this nonsense man. Class dismissed.

It's going to happen eventually. I look forward to the excuses given for it when that happens.

Because most of the CT6s are for the Chinese market. You build where the majority of sales will be. It sucks but that's the way of the world and that's why if it doesn't matter that a Benz is built in Alabama then it sure as hell doesn't matter if a Cadddy is built in China.

Impressive side stepping but 100% unrelated to what I was saying. Good grief man. Pay attention.Now that you bring it up though, shall we talk about the German auto makers and how they treat their US employees? The average wage of a German auto worker is $67/hr. It's not even a third of that here and no, it does not have squat do with Germany being a more costly place in which to live. That is what I am talking about here. They pay a shot wage here and all the rest of the money goes to Germany. Now I realize that GM, Ford, and FCA do the same in other countries but you cannot sit on that high horse of yours and complain about their practices while ignoring German makes. Simply baffling how you can't get that concept. And please explain this bit of hypocrisy. You said it doesn't matter about the country of origin but not even two months ago you said you'd never buy a Chinese made S Class. Because I don't care where the profits go to. All these corporations have a lot of stock bought by the investment companies, whether it be Ford, GM, Toyota, or Daimler. And they all build cars in multiple countries around the world. And I would not buy a made in China Mercedes, luckily for me they build many of them in Germarny (despite the high labor costs) and they build them in the USA too.But buying a car made in China, is not supporting America. That is like saying buying Donald Trump's made in China ties is good for the American worker. It is ridiculous. If you want to say buying a made in Kentucky Corvette is good for America, I am all in on that one. Interestingly enough, 34.8% of Daimler stock is owned by Germans, 31.2% by other European countries, and 23.7% is owned by Americans. So it isn't like 100% of the money goes back to Germany, only 1/3 does. Then there's your problem right there. You should care where the profits are going because profits kept here means profits that are spent here. It's a real simple concept actually and how you fail to see that is beyond me.Oh and thanks for proving your hypocrisy on the countries of origin remark. That literally makes no damn sense.

And again, no.

No price raise. I repeat. No price raise. Lol. No worries suave. I suffer frequently from rampant brain farts. It's like mental constipation.

Less than 5000 camaros sold? Wow! That's not good no matter you slice the retail pie.

A step up FROM base is fine and that is what should happen. What should not happen is pricing a hybrid AS the base model with the next trim being $5K higher. That has been my whole point from the get go. And it is not a stretch to bring up the S Class In comparison. It illustrated perfectly the pricing tier I was talking about which contradicts SMKs assumption that the hybrid should be the cheapest for Cadillac. It literally makes no sense no matter how you slice it.

He thinks the CT6 hybrid should be $5k cheaper than the entry model while Benz matches the price of the two. Still don't see the issue? Reading comprehension is your friend Suave. There is no logic there. The hybrid is supposed to be a step up from base, not as an entry point to base, much less being $5K cheaper than base. Simply no logic when you break it down.