surreal1272

Again, I promise you that regardless of when Cadillac actually puts it out, they will have similar problems. Who will it look worse upon when that happens? The upstart company that may have been a little early to the game and is having to take some lumps for it or the more than 100 year old company that waited to put the tech out and still had problems? I can tell you right now which one that will look worse upon.

Elon has blamed customer and to be fair he may be correct in some cases and in other not so much. He also has done a lot of distraction. When bad sales are reported he talks the travel tubes. If the rockets crash he introduces a new program for the Tesla. He is a master of making the public look to his right hand as he takes their wallets with his left hand. He does have a masterful way with PR and how to try to keep a positive spin on about anything. That is one reason he has been as successful as he has been. It is not so much what he has done but how he did it. Most of it is in the presentation. The problem is time tends to run out on people like this if they do not show profits. The whole three thing was a spin. Why would you show a car 2-3 years out to pre sell it? Because Tesla needed the money. It was expensive to develop the X model and they were down to 2 billion based on reports. Not good if you are also working to finish the 3 and start up production on it too. While he fooled many with the 3 pre sale he now has to deliver on time which he has not done to this point. The cheap S model offering is a way to buy time but even that will hold limits as Porsche and others come to market with more EV cars. Just look at Toyota and the Prius sales that are tanking right now. People have moved on and at some point many will move on with Elon. He has done a hell of a job to this point but he also has had a lot of things that normally don't go right work. In time they will go wrong and it will be interesting to see if the share holders wait or bolt. Right now they should look into disabling the autopilot for now and wait till things are a little better sorted as the customers are just not going to use it properly. The system will fail the customers at times and you just can't rely on the customers to pull your ass out of the fire every time as a company. As it is now I expect most of the automakers will proceed with caution. They will let these systems assist but they will not be fully auto at least till the sensors can be worked out and maybe some driver defaults to make sure they are still holding a wheel or something similar. Even with the best flight systems in the world we still have two pilots on every plane. The bottom line is the systems are not perfect and the customers are not to be trusted to do the right thing. Sorry but there is a certain irony to criticizing a man for doing the exact same thing as every other company head out in the last 100 years (referring to the claim of Musks slight of hand tactics). Suave is right. The critics are fooling themselves if they think that the old guard companies won't have the same problems as Teslas automation systems, regardless of when they actually put it out. Then the same people here, who ragged on Musk, will vehemently defend their favorite brand when they screw it up too (and they will).

I don't blame the vandals.. I mean taking up 2 spots is one way of being an asshole but essentially taking up 5 spots? Fck that person. And for what? A C class? Anybody can get a loan for a C Class if they really want one. Where I'm from, they would have found four cars parked around all four sides of that Benz. Sorry but if you really cared about your car, you wouldn't park like an elitist asshole.

I'm done bickering. He got exactly what he deserved for his remarks though (not referring to SMK for the record). I disgress though...

Name one Cadillac that sells in such low numbers, and is still for sale today, over the course of the last twenty years? Example of what I'm talking about? When the ELR sold jack squat, Cadillac killed it after barely a year. The G wagon has sold in paltry numbers for years so show us a Cadillac that was sold for that long in such low numbers.And in sorry but if I'm Mercedes Benz, selling 3000 of a vehicle that has had basically the same form factor and look since 1972 isn't exactly in line with what they have done with everything else they have ever made. It is clear that this exists purely to bilk a clueless customer by selling on some mysterious prestige. Name one Cadillac with an average transaction price of $145,000. Not the point and there are more advanced cars that sell in better numbers and a higher price so that kind of "logic" can be applied to Benz as well. You do understand that right? Care to actually answer the original question?

I'm just taking a similar trac WRT MB as you do WRT Cadillac, so you can see how it comes off. Because, you know, that filter is seeming broken. Besides, you are doing the VERY SAME THING; you constantly trumpet MB sales records & rates, yet you're excusing the lousy sales of the g-wagoon. Odd. But Balth, they sold more than 3,000 last year after having only sold barely 1,000 for years. That clearly shows a demand LOL and justifies MB milking it for all it's worth.

Name one Cadillac that sells in such low numbers, and is still for sale today, over the course of the last twenty years? Example of what I'm talking about? When the ELR sold jack squat, Cadillac killed it after barely a year. The G wagon has sold in paltry numbers for years so show us a Cadillac that was sold for that long in such low numbers.And in sorry but if I'm Mercedes Benz, selling 3000 of a vehicle that has had basically the same form factor and look since 1972 isn't exactly in line with what they have done with everything else they have ever made. It is clear that this exists purely to bilk a clueless customer by selling on some mysterious prestige.

Well the S-class is the #1 selling car over $95,000, and by a wide margin. But a G-wagen starts at $115,000 and 2/3 of them sold are AMG models that are $140,000. When you compare a G-wagen to BMW i8, Audi R8, or Bentley sales, the G-wagen sales look pretty good. And G-wagen sales are up this year, and they were up in 2015 over 2014. The sales keep rising, and this for a vehicle that Mercedes was going to end production on in 2006. But the fans wanted them to keep making, and they listened to their fan base. G-wagen sales were up 17% in 2015, and are up 23.8% this year. It's easy to go up when you only sell 260 at the same time last year LOL.

Stop. Just stop. If this were Mercedes, you would be preaching whatever foo foo service they were offering. Regardless of what you think about their product, this a good move by Lincoln.

Nope it is properly priced, $8300+ cheaper than the GLC300 4matic with more features and function and better materials than the MB. This is a way better auto all the way around then MB is currently building and selling with more HP and Torque to boot. If you feel that about the Envision and XT5, then you have to reevaluate the MB CUV lineup that has the same problem and lower quality materials at this point as the Envision has surpassed the build quality of the MB. Let me know when Buick puts a 500 hp V8 in the Envision to compete with what M-B is doing. You mean the 469 HP GLC that isn't out yet? Buick and GM is not concerned with a 469HP CUV that 300 people a year will buy.

Do they service Corvette Z06's at the same place they service $14,000 Sparks and City Express commercial vans? I don't really care what else is serviced where my car is serviced. My original post here was about how Ford probably wants to keep the Lincoln owners separate make it seem like Lincoln is different than Ford. Because in reality those Lincolns have a lot of Ford parts and Ford trim pieces and drive like Fords. If Ford wants to help Lincoln they need to get Lincoln it's own chassis and own bodies. Yeah, that wasn't the defense you were using a few months ago before you got called out in it but that's a discussion for another time. Btw, asking Ford to do that is literally the opposite of how multi-make companies handle that. Ask VW. Ford has also done a better job of making Lincolns look less like their Ford cousins and that is a fact.

I'm not really sure what a "condensing" reply is. Thought it was pretty lengthy myself.

Then I'm about to give you a better reason to down vote me. I defended your favorite brand (something you have complained about my lack of in past) and you down vote me anyway? Here's the reason for you. Go F yourself if you have nothing better to offer here. MT will gladly take your trolling there. I contributed to the damn subject here and you just behave like a twelve year old dick with ears. There. Now you have a legitimate reason for the down vote.

The XT5 is only six inches longer and starts at $4K more. That is not "basically the same price". It's no different than the "less than different from each other" C Class and CLA ( and no I am not talking about price).

The S Class grill looks bigger because the S Class is a bigger car. They share the same basic design now across at four different models. Balthazaar is right.

At least they put out the Bug Creek fire. I-17 is no fun with one lane of traffic and my wife and I are headed up to Chino Valley tomorrow.

Happy late Canada say to you Suave. Canada DAY. Damn phone! Here's the deal man.... AUTOCORRECT MAY BE AN AUTONOMOUS WRITING AID. BUT IT IS NOT THE WRITER. DO YOU BLAME THE PHONE, FOR YOUR LACK OF SPELLING? YOU MUST BE AWARE OF WHAT IS WRITTEN AT ALL TIMES, FOR SAFETY AGAINST THE GRAMMAR NAZI. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE...ARRRRR TECHNOLOGY....ARRR PHONE COMPANY BAD BAD....SHOULD BE SACKED, MADE BANKRUPT...AUTOCORRECT, BANISH IT...WE MUST ISSUE LICENCES FOR PHONES, FOR SAFETY, PEOPLE NEED TO BE EDJUMICATED!!! Lol Yes I blame the phone for not being more accommodating to my rigid ass thumbs. Good one Sauve.

Happy late Canada say to you Suave. Canada DAY. Damn phone!

Happy late Canada say to you Suave.

Remember, this claim is coming from the same guy who sees nothing wrong with vans being sold and serviced on the same lot as an S Class.

Anyway, this is getting away from the topic which is the Envision. Carry on folks.

And it's simply awesome that a luxury car maker can pay some Alabama employees over $40 less an hour to put together the same damn cars as their German counterparts. BMW is just as guilty of it.

And I quote, " Ford has made good profits lately, what did they do? They spent $1.6 Billion to build a factory in Mexico and create 2,800 jobs in Mexico. So those F150 profits are going straight to Mexico. They could have invested those dollars in a new factory in Michigan or Indiana, but they didn't." You certainly implied as much and even if you didn't you are still way off base because you literally are ignoring the billions they have and continue to invest in the US. Again, profits always go to the home team. Where they distribute it out from there is of no consequence since that is what ALL manufacturers do. I won't oblige the rest of your post because it also means nothing and you have completely sidestepped your favorite company's role in destroying an American brand while railing against the new owners who have at least invested in the damn product, as misguided as it has been. Daimler did exactly jack $h! for Chrysler other than let it wither and damn near die.

Once again, you need to get your facts straight. Most of the Lincoln dealerships are stand alone. That wasn't always the case but they are now.Oh and nice troll remark in the middle there. Classy </sarcasm> Actually Surreal, I have to disagree with you on the stand alone dealerships. On the west coast, I ONLY FIND FORD / Lincoln Dealerships with BOTH auto's on the same showroom floor. I have yet to see let alone be in a stand alone Lincoln Dealership.Just a few miles from my house is the Harris Ford Lincoln Dealership. They just finished a major remodel and expanded their one big showroom floor to show off both Lincoln and Ford side by side. HarrisFordLincolnDealership.jpg Negative vote aside, I have seen nothing but dedicated dealers in the Phoenix Valley and most of the ones I saw back east were the same way (lived in NC for 35 years). Point being that SMKs claim of 10% is pure trolling bull&#036;h&#33;.Also of note, I did say that there were still some like the ones you mentioned so why that merited a down vote, I haven't the foggiest.

*wreck Chrysler...