surreal1272

And I'm sure there was a practical reason for this.

The year is irrelevant because they still use them (the 5 Series is heavily used in sedan and wagon form). I have family in Germany that can back this up. What you are missing in your quest to ignore the facts is that sure, smaller cars in the mix would be a good idea in large metro cities. However, that does not mean that they should completely replace the larger PPV cars and SUVs for the many reasons already covered here.

Again, you cherry pick. Let me help you out there.Notice that two of them are Charger platform sharing E Class's. Again, it helps when you tell the whole truth, not just the truth that is convenient to you.

My question is if Electric cars are so great why would they need to ban the Gas ones? My feeling is continue development and investment and make a better EV then let the market make the change. 1 word: POLLUTION https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway From the WIKI link: I dont like Big Brother dictating to me either what is good and bad for me... However, I dont like big business greasing up the politicians I vote for telling them to tell me what is good or no good for me either. As you could see...this is a stale mate.... However...since Norway produces its own electricity...and Hydro-electric power is as clean as it gets....and all these EVs will be roaming around in Norway relatively pollution free, with the exception of battery replacement and disposal...and the re-charging costs of the drivers will go DIRECTLY into Norway's coffers instead of Big Oil and Middle Eastern, Russian(Ukraine), Canadian, or even American oil drilling interests...Id say its a win-win for Norway this way.... PS: Norway has Middle Eastern internal problems.. Banning gasoline cars... Saudi terrorist oil gets eliminated killing two birds with one stone...money to Norway while really stifling Saudi terrorist oil money... Yes but we here in North America have nearly all of our oil here. Little comes from the middle east and so what is the difference if we pay an oil company or if we pay a electric company? Norway's electric companies will fill their coffers. As for pollution well it is well documented the auto is a very small part of all emissions and has dropped much in the last how many years. Sorry the electric future is not a future free of pollution and free energy by a long shot. How long is it going to take for most Americans to understand so little of our oil comes from the middle east. Hell I think Canada and the US export more than we bring in. If that Middle East oil is so insignificant, why do we fight tooth and nail for it? Also, yes there is no such thing as free electricity. However there are multiple sources in which to achieve damn near zero pollution electricity, unlike oil. That is a fact that the old school energy hairs refuses to accept and continue to tell us that our oil and how we get it is just fine, when damn the opposite of that is true.

@SMK-You didn't answer my other question. Why doesn't Germany use smaller cars for their city patrols instead of the much pricier and larger Mercedes models?

The Subaru starts out at a higher price than a V6 Charger (which are also used by the police per the link I gave you) and barely better mileage than the larger Charger to boot. In NC, they were using Magnums until they stopped production on those and as an nine year owner of one, I know they have far more room up front and in the back than any Subaru wagon. Again, for cops, space is your friend.

More BS because first off, most times on your car are at the 5.1-5.2 mark. One publication getting a slightly better time does not change that fact. Second, the Hemi AWD edition is $36K not $41k.http://www.nwmc-cog.org/SPC-Documents/SPC_2016_Charger_Pursuit_Price_List-_Order_Form-3.aspxThird, I wonder how you feel about Germany's use of mostly larger Mercedes models for their police fleet? Fourth, most of those chargers are for state troopers and highway patrol (not much city use) and that Hemi is rated 27mpg on the highway. Again, if you don't get why most cops prefer larger vehicles, then you need to just stop now. You've been told why repeatedly and just ignore and make up ridiculous reasons why they shouldn't. Ford plans to kill the Taurus, so I guess cops better get used to a Fusion. Unless they only buy SUVs, that are slow. So their goes the "we need speed" argument.That's why they have other choices like the Charger and the Caprice PPV. There is nothing obligating them to just stick with Ford. Good grief cherry picker. Also, the Explorer is every bit as capable and fast as your average Taurus, with much more room for gear. Again, you sidestep the obvious. I'll tell you what. Go up to a Charger cop and challenge them to a race. You will find out that 2/10ths of a damn second difference doesn't mean squat to the right driver and I gaurantee you they are better trained at it than you are.

More BS because first off, most times on your car are at the 5.1-5.2 mark. One publication getting a slightly better time does not change that fact. Second, the Hemi AWD edition is $36K not $41k. http://www.nwmc-cog.org/SPC-Documents/SPC_2016_Charger_Pursuit_Price_List-_Order_Form-3.aspx Third, I wonder how you feel about Germany's use of mostly larger Mercedes models for their police fleet? Fourth, most of those chargers are for state troopers and highway patrol (not much city use) and that Hemi is rated 27mpg on the highway. Again, if you don't get why most cops prefer larger vehicles, then you need to just stop now. You've been told why repeatedly and just ignore and make up ridiculous reasons why they shouldn't.

I don't know how many times this has to be said. None of that matters because obviously Mercedes does it better.

Good grief. I'm glad you are not responsible for what cops get to drive, is all I'm going to say. It is simply amazing how you have ignored just about everything said to this point. Example? The current Charger Hemi pursuit pulls the same 0-60 and better quarter mile than a 2015 E Class 400. I'm pretty sure it can catch your older E Class. Research is your friend, not making up hypothetical situations about things you clearly don't know jack squat about.

As much as it pains me to be the devils advocate here, there are very good reasons why cops get to take their service cars home. This was an interesting read regarding that very thing. http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/news/story/2010/dec/29/most-police-officers-opt-not-to-pay-to-have-take/37997/ And an even better explanation for this. http://www.myreporter.com/2010/06/why-are-police-allowed-to-drive-the-police-cars-home-when-they-live-in-another-county/ Let me ask you some thing dfelt. What do you think they should use? Simple, having uncles and Aunts in local police forces here in washington I have had this chat with them many times and they all admit that they can easily us much smaller 4 door sedans than the huge purchase of police interceptor versions of SUV's, they only need a few motorcycles and should have at least 2 police interceptor models of high performance cars, could be mustangs or camaros. For bringing the equipment to a crash scene, there are many options for the vans or full size SUV to use. Usually a commercial van is best. With that said, as long as the state, county and cities give a wide open choice they are trying to give every officer on the force the same fully loaded SUVs. There is allot of waste in government and we all know it as many jobs can be done with much less auto or no auto. The problem is one department sees what another buys and wants the same toy. Perfect example is the Home Land Security office here in Seattle. The whole force is nothing but GM Tahoe police versions. Does HLS really need to have a full fleet of petro drinking SUVS when they spend the bulk of their time in cites? I bet most of the tax payers would be shocked at how much waste is spent on auto's and allowing the gov employee to drive said auto's home driving up the amount of fuel used by giving a perc to these workers that private workers do not have. Why should the cops, fire department, City Employee get to drive a taxpayer auto home every day putting on needless miles and gas costs when they could use mass transit or should be driving their own auto to work. Very good explanation and I can see the logic there. However, I have law enforcement in my family here in Arizona and they say that the larger vehicles are indespensible (for example, the sheer number of unmaintained dirt roads here demand a real SUV). The cops here hate the smaller sedans they are forced to use now. Most would love to have the Crown Vics in service again. Seems to me like the use of certain vehicles depends on where you live. But why do they hate the smaller vehicles? "just because" or are they worse for the job. Because just because somebody doesn't enjoy the smaller vehicle that doesn't make it worse for the job. It could just be that the driver wants to feel on top of the road. Read what I have said multiple times here. It's mostly about space for people and gear. It's not that hard to see the advantages of such things.

Let me ask you some thing dfelt. What do you think they should use? I am not dfelt but I'll throw my opinion out there for $h!s. If the options aren't limited to vehicles already with police packages I think the cars should be a class smaller than the Charger/Taurus/Impala and be more like the Fusion/Malibu size and there would be savings in fuel which I think should not be overlooked with how much those engines are running. 1mpg improvement goes a long way w/ a fleet of vehicles. I also think the Explorer, for the most part, is larger than most actually need. Granted, I don't know all of the equipment that gets stuffed in them but it's hard to believe that they use the extra cargo space over an Edge and obviously they never use the 3rd row of seats. So I would go with vehicles in the Grand Cherokee/Edge/Equinox(I know it competes with a different class but it's kind of a tweener and large for its class). Oh and the new Acadia that's also a larger 2 row CUV. I think there should be plenty of additional space in those CUVs over the cars for whatever additional space is required from a larger vehicle in the first place yet they should save some in fuel costs. Oh, and obviously all American made. Same goes for the cars I listed. They aren't the small, tiny economy cars that some want. I don't feel like that is realistic yet the mid-size class is loaded w/ technology in the driveline and car itself to be fuel efficient and give the "at the limit" capability that law enforcement needs. The larger cars are just boaty in comparison to the modern mid-size sedans. Good reasoning there. Thanks ccap. Now, do you know why they prefer larger vehicles as opposed the ones you mentioned? I do not. Just assuming it is for extra carrying capacity with all the miscellaneous stuff they might need at any given point. That is exactly the reason. When they retired the Crown Vic and went to the Impala, cops here were not happy. Space was the number one reason for that (as well as preferring the RWD over FWD). They have the same gripe with the Tauruses that most use now.

Let me ask you some thing dfelt. What do you think they should use? Simple, having uncles and Aunts in local police forces here in washington I have had this chat with them many times and they all admit that they can easily us much smaller 4 door sedans than the huge purchase of police interceptor versions of SUV's, they only need a few motorcycles and should have at least 2 police interceptor models of high performance cars, could be mustangs or camaros. For bringing the equipment to a crash scene, there are many options for the vans or full size SUV to use. Usually a commercial van is best. With that said, as long as the state, county and cities give a wide open choice they are trying to give every officer on the force the same fully loaded SUVs. There is allot of waste in government and we all know it as many jobs can be done with much less auto or no auto. The problem is one department sees what another buys and wants the same toy. Perfect example is the Home Land Security office here in Seattle. The whole force is nothing but GM Tahoe police versions. Does HLS really need to have a full fleet of petro drinking SUVS when they spend the bulk of their time in cites? I bet most of the tax payers would be shocked at how much waste is spent on auto's and allowing the gov employee to drive said auto's home driving up the amount of fuel used by giving a perc to these workers that private workers do not have. Why should the cops, fire department, City Employee get to drive a taxpayer auto home every day putting on needless miles and gas costs when they could use mass transit or should be driving their own auto to work. Very good explanation and I can see the logic there. However, I have law enforcement in my family here in Arizona and they say that the larger vehicles are indespensible (for example, the sheer number of unmaintained dirt roads here demand a real SUV). The cops here hate the smaller sedans they are forced to use now. Most would love to have the Crown Vics in service again. Seems to me like the use of certain vehicles depends on where you live.

Let me ask you some thing dfelt. What do you think they should use? I am not dfelt but I'll throw my opinion out there for $h!s. If the options aren't limited to vehicles already with police packages I think the cars should be a class smaller than the Charger/Taurus/Impala and be more like the Fusion/Malibu size and there would be savings in fuel which I think should not be overlooked with how much those engines are running. 1mpg improvement goes a long way w/ a fleet of vehicles. I also think the Explorer, for the most part, is larger than most actually need. Granted, I don't know all of the equipment that gets stuffed in them but it's hard to believe that they use the extra cargo space over an Edge and obviously they never use the 3rd row of seats. So I would go with vehicles in the Grand Cherokee/Edge/Equinox(I know it competes with a different class but it's kind of a tweener and large for its class). Oh and the new Acadia that's also a larger 2 row CUV. I think there should be plenty of additional space in those CUVs over the cars for whatever additional space is required from a larger vehicle in the first place yet they should save some in fuel costs. Oh, and obviously all American made. Same goes for the cars I listed. They aren't the small, tiny economy cars that some want. I don't feel like that is realistic yet the mid-size class is loaded w/ technology in the driveline and car itself to be fuel efficient and give the "at the limit" capability that law enforcement needs. The larger cars are just boaty in comparison to the modern mid-size sedans. Good reasoning there. Thanks ccap. Now, do you know why they prefer larger vehicles as opposed the ones you mentioned?

Let me ask you some thing dfelt. What do you think they should use?

So they are fine for them picking the i3 because it has more room than a Volt but can't see why they'd pick an Explorer over an Escape?I'm just going to let you think about the fallacy of your argument before commenting further.One last thing. The fleet Explorers are nowhere close to $40K. They start at $31K.http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/price-lists/?group=PriceList The Volt doesn't have much space at all. An Escape would have as much room in it as an i3, thus enough room for a police vehicle. I don't think they need more room than what an Escape offers. The Police interceptor Explorer might start at $31k but they are all tacking options on, the ecoboost motor alone is $3,100 if they add that. Maybe they are $35k average, but an Escape would be $10k less probably.Did you actually click on the link? Obviously not or else you would have SEEN that the Escape is only $4K cheaper than the much larger Explorer. Let me break it down for you, since you clearly did not do your homework here.Ford Escape 2016MY Escape PL640 Price List.pdf 05/02/2016 27k 2017MY Escape PL725 Price List.pdf 04/14/2016 25k 2015MY Escape PL525 Price List.pdf 12/01/2014 29k Ford Explorer2016MY Explorer PL650 Price list.pdf 05/03/2016 31k 2017MY Explorer PL725 Price List.pdf 04/29/2016 30k 2015MY Explorer PL525 Price list.pdf 10/01/2014 33k Good grief man. Check your damn facts next time before replying. Again, the purpose for choosing the Explorer over the Escape is obvious. They are LARGER, which means it can haul more gear. Again, DUH! I would down vote your post ten times if I could.But they aren't buying an Explorer they are buying a Police Interceptor Utility according to the Ford price list. Which is $31k base before light bars, cages in back, ecoboost at $3100, etc. Considering the Escape is 2 classes below Explorer there has to be at least a $5k difference in price, and I did read the Police Utility price list. Plus the Escape would use less gas.BS. You don't get to move the damn bar here. You first said there was a $10K price difference, which clearly there was not and then you willfully ignore the number one reason for choosing the Explorer in the first place, SIZE. Much like your explanation why they chose the i3, the same is applied here (best choice for the job required) so why you want to ignore that simple little fact is beyond me. Btw, all that packaging you mention would apply to the Escape as well. Again, only a $4K difference, not $10K. You just need to admit to your error and your ignorance on this one SMK.

Exactly. He can't get the math right on it either.

So they are fine for them picking the i3 because it has more room than a Volt but can't see why they'd pick an Explorer over an Escape?I'm just going to let you think about the fallacy of your argument before commenting further. One last thing. The fleet Explorers are nowhere close to $40K. They start at $31K. http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/price-lists/?group=PriceList The Volt doesn't have much space at all. An Escape would have as much room in it as an i3, thus enough room for a police vehicle. I don't think they need more room than what an Escape offers. The Police interceptor Explorer might start at $31k but they are all tacking options on, the ecoboost motor alone is $3,100 if they add that. Maybe they are $35k average, but an Escape would be $10k less probably. Did you actually click on the link? Obviously not or else you would have SEEN that the Escape is only $4K cheaper than the much larger Explorer. Let me break it down for you, since you clearly did not do your homework here. Ford Escape 2016MY Escape PL640 Price List.pdf 05/02/2016 27k 2017MY Escape PL725 Price List.pdf 04/14/2016 25k 2015MY Escape PL525 Price List.pdf 12/01/2014 29k Ford Explorer 2016MY Explorer PL650 Price list.pdf 05/03/2016 31k 2017MY Explorer PL725 Price List.pdf 04/29/2016 30k 2015MY Explorer PL525 Price list.pdf 10/01/2014 33k Good grief man. Check your damn facts next time before replying. Again, the purpose for choosing the Explorer over the Escape is obvious. They are LARGER, which means it can haul more gear. Again, DUH! I would down vote your post ten times if I could.

The volt has the advantage of running on gas when the juice runs out though, unlike the electric only i3. And if they bought a Ford Focus hatchback Police package (if one existed) they could run it on gas, it would cost under $25,000 and have more cargo and passenger volume than a Volt. I think the LA PD wanted pure electric, the Volt is still a gas powered car. If we are going to call the i3 a waste of money, I am all for that. Look at most European police cars, they have Opel/Vauxhall Astra hatchbacks, Puegot Hatchback, Ford Mondoe (Fusion) sedans, and they function just fine. The only reason the police departments have Taurus, Explorer, V8 Chargers, and Caprice to a lesser degree, is the car makers only want to make police cars out of larger higher margin vehicles, and the police companies are using tax payer money so they don't care what it costs. Plus if you took away fleet sales, these large sedans like Taurus, Charger, etc would really be in the dump, because the retail market is drying up fast for large sedans. Again, so many wrongs with your post. All of those cars are used for obvious reasons, that you completely sidestep here. They are large passenger vehicles. DUH! BTW, fleet sales have jack$h! to do with the conversation at hand. Besides, that same logic could be applied to a certain Mercedes van, which is very fleet sale dependent.

You're just making my point Balthazaar but I've said all I'm going to say at this point.

So they are fine for them picking the i3 because it has more room than a Volt but can't see why they'd pick an Explorer over an Escape? I'm just going to let you think about the fallacy of your argument before commenting further. One last thing. The fleet Explorers are nowhere close to $40K. They start at $31K. http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/price-lists/?group=PriceList

The volt has the advantage of running on gas when the juice runs out though, unlike the electric only i3.

Pay attention to what I'm actually saying though. The similarities between the two are most certainly to do with range and infrastructure (like fuel stations then vs charging stations now for example). I cannot make this any clearer and it is a far more similar deal than to bring up a Mustang like Olds attempted to do.

The fact that the initial Mustang was gas powered is NOT it's 'new market' factor. Propellant is irrelevant to the 'new market' bar being set in this reference.And I do "see it" (see end the end of post #92), but again; I'm not questioning 'if', only 'how quickly'. I think my end of the discussion here has been very much on point. I have stayed very much on point with this as well. Let me say this another way Balth because you're not getting it. The Mustang was a bad comparison for reasons already given. The example I gave is much more relatable to what is going on with EVs today. Range and infrastructure. Those are the same problems that existed when the automotive industry wanted the automobile to be the defacto choice for personal transportation. It is the same thing today with EVs. That is what makes this one percent argument ring hollow.

What in the actual f***? No other choices there LAPD? Really? Typical California.