balthazar

It still belays the ideal that you are getting something for the increased MSRP, it's not design, it's not powertrains, now I see its not interior legroom, either. And that just a 3 vs 5 commentary, nevermind the 3 vs 3L (answering the O/P point). Why are these commonly held up as the segment 'way to do it' again?

BMW 3-series WB : 110.6", RR leg room : 35.1" 5-series : 116.9", RR leg room : 35.3" 3-series L : 114.9" Is this some of the worst packaging in the industry? Couldn't quickly find the RR legroom of the 328iL, but if 6.3" of WB is only good for 0.2" legroom, the 328iL must only provide 0.1" more legroom.

'71 Plymouth 'cuda, lime green, resplendent, rollin', then, about a quarter mile behind it on the same road; '69 Dodge Charger R/T, lime green, resplendent, aftermarket rims.

As it is, generally speaking, the size gaps in many brands is too small, plus adding maybe 2 inches (and the millions required) seems totally pointless to me. If the manufacturers package things well, there'd be no call for 'splitters' in between 2 lines. At the top is another matter, but IMO the size increases there are still pointless; add a foot or more. The prime issue is not interior length, but WIDTH.

I consider myself a Ford truck man (have had 4), but I drive a Chevy and I think the current Rams are often gorgeous (in some trims/colors). IMO, there's not a thing "wrong" with this : ...and one guy moving to Dodge is meaningless. Mercedes gets about a 30% loyalty figure. No vehicle is for everyone.

I really don't see AL being a selling point- it's an intangible and so is weight to a sizable degree. In fact I tend to agree with reg that a lone steel truck line MAY actually be the only selling point rather than AL.

'68-72 GMC RC/LB, orange, refurbished, sitting pretty in the movie parking lot.

I'll take that bet.

Holden Monaro / GTO- had the GTO hood but the Holden grille/bumper.

I have never been a fan of step-sides (unless mid '50s or earlier), even my '57 F-250 was a (the first) StyleSide. I like these early '60s GMs, but being a step side would be my deal breaker.

Just read a Hot Rod review of the new Viper, and they were very positive on the handling, stating the 'wildness' of past generations is not a prime characteristic anymore. That said, we just need a pic in here of the awesomeness that is the Viper : -- -- -- As the above share nothing, it's hard to see why any justification relative to ferrari and the poorly-selling (ferrari-engined) maserati is in order.

So what we have in reality is an extremely competitive vehicle (SRX), well matched to it's competition, and is what- #2 in the segment in sales? I thought as much. -- -- -- Wait; it is really called an "X3XDRIVE28i" ??

ATS was out before the CLA, so here it was mercedes copying. Add to that they undercut the ATS's price and cheapened the car with such appliance features as FWD. Cadillac is not currently planning a 'sub-ATS' car; that is idle talk by the new guy trying to make his mark. Such a vehicle would be a huge mistake, as it is for MB in everything except the reason it was released; revenue generator. S-class price IS too high, as proven by the fact that mercedes has such huge discounts on the bottom line. But we've deciphered that here already. IMO, I believe a lot of the s-class's reason for selling in high numbers is that it is perceived as a bargain, IE; it is stickered at prices that no one pays, allowing the buyers to feel they've gotten a 'deal'. Very likely the huge incentives/discounts are torpedo'ing resale. Gee, who does that sound like its patterned after? None of this addresses the fact that there's no excuse for the supposed 'king' of the segment to cost the owners over $80,000 in depreciation; it should do far better than that if it were as amazing as some believe. That's a horrible downside to ownership.

Needs a thorough cleaning in & out, but body is excellent. Paint is going to take some elbow grease, but it comes up pretty well. All fluids look good, no leaks. PS box is going to need replacing at some point, it groans the way my '94 F-150 did at one point. It's all legal-like as of this morn, and getting the dry-rotted tires replaced tomm. I'm sort of liking it. DD, this is last year of the 2nd gen; the 3rd gen is the fish eye one. Yea- can't warm up to those at all. I was hoping to put the 16" tires on the Taurus with a set of factory 16" rims, but the GP's tires are 2.5" taller and the front susp. on the Ford won't allow that sort of anarchy. I don't think it's worth it to pick up a set of 5-spoke 16" Taurus rims in addition to the cost of the tires, even tho I can get a nice set of those rims for $120. Going to get it washed/polished, then I'll get a pic up. This amount of storage/cargo capacity (it's 2" longer than the GP) is SORELY lacking in the market today. All the typical 'go-to' smaller SUVs have no room inside, with cargo floors commonly around 2' long. The more I've looked at the current crop of CUVs / smaller SUVs, the more I realize how poorly packaged they are relative to a long roof.

4 years of ownership and the depreciation ALONE costs you $82,000 !! Nothing quite says 'I'm dumber than dirt" than buying a top-shelf mercedes. Continually striving for ever-increased production and heavy downmarket pushing is NOT going to help Mercedes in any other way than to thin out the top of the lineup.

A friend & client of mine is a multi-millionaire. He once had a 1916 Case steam traction engine, just because. He had a new S430, traded it in on a loaded Tahoe LTZ (had 2 in a row). Currently, he has a hyundai sante fe. Of course, the iffy reliability, poor dealer service and 8-months long wait for parts on the mercedes might have had something to do with the initial move to Chevy.

Even greater landslide depreciation??

The tens of millions of toyoyo recalls didn't seem to hurt them much, certainly not to a point they were 'struggling'.

Saw a '97 MB S-class with only 57K online for $5250. Same mileage & price as an '01 GP GT. Made a handshake deal on the Taurus wagon. It's actually a '95, clock says 70281. A friend's father's, bought new. A bit of PS groan, probably needs new struts. On residential streets it moved fine. All power equipment works, no body damage or rust, other than some ink (?) stains on the one footwell carpet, interior is pretty clean. $1800. KBB says $2100, so sounds reasonable. 10-4 on a full fluids servicing, plus check out the brakes/bearings, trans & coolant. This is the 3.0L V6 - any scuttlebutt on these?

The Century / GP W-Bodies all have the infamous intake gasket dark cloud hanging if it hasn't been done before... tho otherwise they are very reliable. Looked at an '09 Sebring today too, but not impressed and the trunk opening is smaller than our '09 Malibu. I have to check Fords- I'm not up on their recent catalog and they have a plethora of body styles/ models. Would be nice to have the Passat wagon with a 3.8L GM V6. Nothing is 'cheap' unless it's really tired, tho. $4000 gets some pretty ragged stuff.

10-4 on the Vdub. The timeline for rebuilding the existing is not good as it's needed ASAP. I'm dropping my son off at work in the AM, which is fine, but the days my wife is in the office means I will have to be around in mid-afternoon; not productive for me.

$2500 GP had a bashed fender and horribly peeling clearcoat over a repaint, so that's out. Magnum wagon was very clean, but a Hemi R/T, so that's out. Didn't even call on the price. Looked a bit at an '03 Passat 1.8T wagon- that's a really well-sized package in & out, but the maintenance costs & reliability are not something I want to deal with. 111K and dealer price of 6995. My VW buddy says it should be closer to 3500-4000, and what's the story on the timing belt. Called numerous times about a '06 Escape, clean for $3800 on CL but no answer/voice mailbox full. Spun thru a bunch of used car lots, but everything is priced too high. Friend has a '96 Taurus wagon with only 65K on it. Will give it a look tomm, at least I trust their word on the car's history. That's like only 3600 miles/year!

Packing more HP into one of the worst reliable vehicles on the road is like putting mascara on a jackass.

GOing to look at a Magnum wagon & the aforementioned GP tomm. It's at a small dealer lot that tries to market itself as some sort of Euro 'hotsy' dealer; hopefully a Pontiac GP is an incredible scourge on their lot and they'll come down a bunch on the number, like to 1750. I should bring my buddy the Arab trader- he regularly buys cars & parts for 30-40 cents on the asking dollar. Bought a '72 RS Camaro, asking price of $3800, for $800. My son scouted a few cars today on his rounds; a Roadmaster wagon (no), an Impala with an intake oil leak (no) and a Taurus wagon with 200K and a bad rack & pinion (no). Well, the Taurus is asking $500... at $350 I could always scrap it when it blows up and break even. Meanwhile, I may be able to make some money back parting out the GP. Will report tomm evening.

My wife's 'ex'-car is an '03 Pontiac GP SE. 3.1L. We bought it in '05 with 29K for $13K. When she upgraded to a new '09 Malibu 2LT, we debated selling the GP, but held onto it as an errand/spare car. My older son got his license in early '11. This year he's been working 5 days/wk & driving the GP. He also has an active social schedule. I believe it has right about 139K on it. It has really been an excellent car as far as reliability goes. Batteries, tires, brakes, and I did the A/C condenser & compressor last spring. Other than the radio LED window being blank, it's been trouble free and money well spent, IMO. Last night my son accidentally ran into the rear of another car. No one was hurt, thankfully, except the cars. GP: front bumper cover reusable, most of the styrofoam/minor structure behind it is trashed, hood is bad, one headlight smashed. Both front fenders are fine. Condenser is bowed in, radiator did not leak. Core support is straight. Both airbags went off, with the passenger one smashing the windshield on that side most effectively. KBB says trade-in on an (un-smashed) '03 GP is like $1400, retail is $2200. New airbags alone must be $1600, I'd guess the rest would be every bit of $3000 (if not more). I'm not putting $4500 into a $1400 car. No collision coverage on this one. -- -- -- -- My son is a pretty dedicated musician, and regularly is hauling guitars, amp heads & cabinets- shoving some pretty large cabinets in the back seat of the GP. A mid-size wagon would be much more accommodating, ESP for gigs, but that's certainly secondary. Found another.... '03 GP online tonight. 85K for an asking price of $2500, and it looks incredibly clean. Is it nuts to consider this one, because the late model used market is pricey (dealer-wise, pretty much everything is over $10K). I like the idea of a familiar car, and I have a bunch of spare parts (I am NOT keeping the mashed '03). I'm open to suggestions on a 3rd vehicle; domestic, getting over -say- 23MPG city and is very reliable. Even tho sometimes I really am just wasting time idly, that doesn't mean I enjoy fielding calls @ 1AM for car trouble. A -say- Focus/Cruze is too small. A CUV is a possibility. What's out there with reliability, affordability & some cargo capacity?