smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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I said most brands price their crossover higher than their similar size sedan. And most buyers will pay more for the crossover. Mercedes prices C-class and GLC, E-class and GLE very close together, it works for them. Cadillac could price CT5 and XT5 the same, price CT6 and XT6 the same. That is probably a good way for them to go. The majority of brand don't do this, and they charge for a more for an RDX or MKC type small crossover than a mid-size sedan even. Cadillac should price CT5 and XT5 the same, but that isn't how GM usually operates. So we'll see. The Model 3 is $35,000. $5,000 for the luxury package, $5,000 for auto pilot, $9,000 for the bigger battery and quicker acceleration and $1,000 for metallic paint. That puts it at $55k. Take away the battery pack upgrade and you are at $46k for a car with a 5.6 second 0-60 and loads of tech. That is pretty impressive. And it says Tesla on it, which makes people drool. Tesla is the future, Cadillac is the past. Hard to sell people the past.
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The Model 3 is $35,000 base before tax credits. 220 mile range, 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. Elon delivered. The Bolt is done, it doesn't look good, it is slower with similar range, it costs more, and it is Chevy while the other one is a Tesla, possibly the desired brand in cars, and maybe even outside of cars.
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I know they have nothing in common as far as platform goes, but they are both the middle sedan and middle crossover. They very well could price the CT5 at $40k and split the size and price of the current ATS and CTS. That would probably make the C-class and Guilia the primary targets on price. The real question is how will the CT5 turn out? I don't see how they build a better luxury car than the C-class or a better performance car than the Guilia, plus the Tesla Model 3 will be widely available in 2019. If it was so easy for Cadillac to build the best in segment car I feel like they would have done it already. The ATS and CTS were the best shot they took in decades and they both fell flat.
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After watching the Tesla Model 3 release, they better start the CT5 at $35,000. Elon delivered on what he said he would. Another thing to consider is the crossover version is usually more than the sedan equivalent. If an XT5 is $40k wouldn't surprise me if they make the CT5 less money because people expect to pay more for a crossover. Pricing CT5 at $45k just puts it where the CTS is now and not selling. if the CTS we know today was $36k base (and the ATS was not around) they would sell about 2500 a month which is the sales level you need in that segment.
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Johan said the CT5 will start between 35 and 45 thousand. If there was no chance of it starting at 35k he would not have said that. I am sure the product planners are still working on size, engines, interiors, etc and seeing where the market goes. If you look at the 3-series segment though, the 3/4 series, C, A4, IS, ES, TSX, Q50,etc can all sell 2500 units a month, some of those are 5-7,000 a month. When you jump to the E-class segment, there are only 2 cars that routinely are over 2,000 units a month. There is no volume there. Cadillac is going to go where volume is. The 2006 CTS had more volume than CTS, ATS and XTS combined have now, and I am sure their bean counters see that and are thinking of going back to that formula.
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CT5 is going to be priced $35-45k, that is below the C-class, or at the C-class, depending on where they go. The CT6 is the car priced against the E-class. And the E55 was around before the CTS-V ever was, and they haven't had to look at what Cadillac is doing. The E63 is plenty fast, probably the quickest in the segment, and it has the most luxurious interior by a country mile over the CTS, aging A6 and shoestring budget XFR and better than the 5-series never changing interior.
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Another thing to consider, the LaCrosse is probably dead around 2019 or 2020 also. So all the more reason to make the CT5 midsize so it can replace the Lacrosse, XTS, ATS and CTS. Starting in the mid to high $30s is a price point that previous generation CTS buyers liked, and allows current ATS and LaCrosse buyers to afford it. Rueters said CT6 would be around $50,000, I assume the current $55k will stay. I also wonder if V-series will be dead in 2020. They aren't going to do a V-series of an XT5, XT4 or XT-Enclave. They don't have a CT6-V and don't seem to be talking about one, and if they wanted an Escalade-V they would have done it already. Are they going to do a CT5-V and have 1 V-series product? Seems like that is not worth the marketing dollars and development cost and CAFE gets way harder in 2020.
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The consumer chose SUVs, so unless you have a great sedan, the consumer doesn't seem to want it. Maybe this is just change in taste, maybe it started in the 90s when American car companies made terrible sedans and people went to Explorers and Grand Cherokees and wrote off American sedans. The Camry and Accord are still going strong, the weaker sedans are just dropping out of the market. Olds, Pontiac, Scion, Saturn, Saab, and Suzuki were the weak cars, they went away, Dodge Avenger, Dodge Dart, Chrysler 200 followed. Now the next round of cuts will be Taurus, Impala, Azera, these Cadillacs, probably Infiniti Q70, Jaguar XJ, etc. The E63 will benchmark what Mercedes always benchmarks, themselves. No reason to copy the people that are chasing them. CT5 is going to be $35-45k, that is more inline with an A4, but I bet it is a mid-size car, so more like Lincoln MKZ size and price. Bad idea in the first place to take the CTS which was an entry level car and put it against the 5-series/E-class.
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So the CTS will be gone, Lexus GS is rumored to be gone, and the Infiniti Q70 is well past it's prime and may not be replaced at the end of it's life cycle. The E-class is cleaning out this segment.
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I wonder if that CT4 will ever even happen, and if it does, it will probably be a Cruze based car as Autoline says the target would be the Audi A3. The CT5 is going to be priced at back where the 2008 CTS was, I imagine they will size it like an 08 CTS. There will never be a CT8. Too costly for too little revenue.
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But you are replacing the ATS too. I think they are just going to give up on mid-size, the E-class has that segment sewn up, Lexus might cancel the GS also. There is still volume at the C-class/3-series segment, A4, Q50 and IS all sell solid numbers. They want to get into that $35-45k entry lex sedan market, MKZ and Acura TSX are mid-sizers in that price range, Cadillac probably thinks with a mid-sizer are $35k base they can get 2500 units a month.
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I said something the other day in the sedan axing thread, that probably what Cadillac will do is make an Infiniti Q50 size car, someone else said they should go back to the tweener CTS, and it sounds like that is the plan. They'll probably do a 190 inch long car that splits the size difference between the current ATS and CTS, price the turbo 4 model at like $37,990. Then the CT6 will be where it sits today. Sort of what Lincoln has with MKZ and Continental. 3 front drive crossovers and the Escalade will round out the line up, and Johan will have wrecked this brand even more than it was in 2012 which seems almost impossible.
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Audi and Infiniti sales went up after he left. All he is doing here is gutting their sport sedans to sell some re-worked Equinoxes and Enclaves.
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Audi and Lexus will stay as discount option to the S-class. Maserati needs to dump the Quattroporte and Jag should dump the XJ. They have to lose money when they sell maybe 5,000 units a year. G-wagen is a class above Escalade and 2016 was the G's best sales year since its 1979 debut. And the other guys are smart they don't try to go after it, they stay away. On a side note, I saw an 2010 or 2011 era Quattroporte S with like 40k miles and the Ferrari V8 and all that, $127,000 base when new and it was $26k used. No one wants that car.
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Jaguar can go home in this segment Audi has China to save them and the fact that that A8 chassis is shared with Bentley. BMW actually sells some 7-series and they share that platform with RR. If this new A8 tanks maybe they will give up, the S-class is going to offer a V6 and come after what little sales the A8 has left. The only reason BMW, Audi, Lexus and Jaguar have any sales is because they start $20k below the S-class. Mercedes let them have those sales until now.
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This all depends on battery technology. If Toyota comes up with the solid state batteries they want in 2022 that charge in minutes and are a fraction of the weight to lithium ion then the gas engine in trouble. Once lithium ion is replaced with something better electric car sales will take off.
- 36 replies
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- 2017
- chevrolet
- cruze
- cruze diesel
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The S-class outsells the A8, 7-series and XJ combined.
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Why not design the Camaro and all other alpha platform cars to be right and left hand drive? Like every German car, every Toyota, etc. Makes sense to sell them in Australia as they need any sale volume they can get as coupe sales drop.
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The S-class has had an MCE, an all new model and another MCE in the time this XJ has been sitting on the market with the same body, interior and 5.0 V8 from 2010.
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But we'll have great healthcare, the finest, most luxurious health care ever, to take care of all the people that get cancer and emphazima from breathing in coal smoke.
- 36 replies
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- 2017
- chevrolet
- cruze
- cruze diesel
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