Ram Smashes Range Anxiety with their Ram 1500 REV

I feel like 2025 is a long way off and a lot can change or it can get delayed.  Funny how auto makers used to never talk future product, now they have no problem talking about 2025 models, probably some will talk about their 2026 EV's, Chevy spend all last year advertising the Equinox EV 18 months before it even went on sale.

Tesla has changed how they do business.

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla has changed how they do business.

You mean the company that hasn't changed the design of their first sedan since it came out in 2013 (save for bits and unnoticeable pieces)?

It's 2023 and we talking 2025, a whole TWO years. I've seen longer future talk and any number of companies since well, ever. That is not a new practice. It only seems that no because companies are attempting to push a lot of product in a relatively short period of time. About the delays hell, it could show up one year late and still be ready to actually sell before the Cybertruck (a joke but I'm really not that far off). As long as they don't have a Tesla like delay with it, they will be fine. 

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Chevy spend all last year advertising the Equinox EV 18 months before it even went on sale.

 

EV dude. EV. That is why. They spent billions on EVs so advertise now, not two months before it actually comes out like old GM. It's not rocket science.

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I feel like 2025 is a long way off and a lot can change or it can get delayed.  Funny how auto makers used to never talk future product, now they have no problem talking about 2025 models, probably some will talk about their 2026 EV's, Chevy spend all last year advertising the Equinox EV 18 months before it even went on sale.

Tesla has changed how they do business.

We are only talking about a year till production. This is nothing to have people get ready to pre-order the truck.

I will say I am excited to see if what is in this video is a true pass through door.

Very excited for this truck. Love the Huge battery pack, but I wonder what the charge will be for the upsized battery.

I have looked all over their N.A. media website and no where does it talk about the onboard charging controller. I have to wonder how it compares to the GM 19 kW charging controller. The amount of power that it can pull makes a huge difference and I really hope it does have this properly sized as a 20 kW controller with a Level 2 charger at home should pretty much handle filling up the battery in about 4hrs and about 30 minutes at a DC charger depending on the status of the charger for being able to deliver a full load.

Stellantis Media - Ram (stellantisnorthamerica.com)

57 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I feel like 2025 is a long way off and a lot can change or it can get delayed.  Funny how auto makers used to never talk future product, now they have no problem talking about 2025 models, probably some will talk about their 2026 EV's, Chevy spend all last year advertising the Equinox EV 18 months before it even went on sale.

Tesla has changed how they do business.

That’s just not true about past products. The only manufacturer that is consistently tight on the Show to Release window is Honda.  All of the others have been all over the place.  The Camaro and Bronco had a long run up to production. 

Production can start as early as May 2024 and it will still be a 2025 model…. So 12 months.  That’s actually pretty typical for everyone except Honda for a new model. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That’s just not true about past products. The only manufacturer that is consistently tight on the Show to Release window is Honda.  All of the others have been all over the place.  The Camaro and Bronco had a long run up to production. 

Production can start as early as May 2024 and it will still be a 2025 model…. So 12 months.  That’s actually pretty typical for everyone except Honda for a new model. 

I suppose but the legacy OEM's have been showing and advertising EV's to make it look like they have EV's even if they don't.  Acura was running ads last NFL season for the electric SUV that is basically just a CGI mock up and I imagine is still 2 years away.   All these companies advertise EV's but then they don't have EV's at the dealer and people just buy a Tesla.  Tesla is a tough competitor as it is, even harder to beat if Honda, GM, Ford, etc do the advertising for them.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

I suppose but the legacy OEM's have been showing and advertising EV's to make it look like they have EV's even if they don't.  Acura was running ads last NFL season for the electric SUV that is basically just a CGI mock up and I imagine is still 2 years away.   All these companies advertise EV's but then they don't have EV's at the dealer and people just buy a Tesla.  Tesla is a tough competitor as it is, even harder to beat if Honda, GM, Ford, etc do the advertising for them.

Honda / Acura is really behind on EVs. That's why they're using GM's Ultium and partnering with Sony for everything.

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Honda / Acura is really behind on EVs. That's why they're using GM's Ultium and partnering with Sony for everything.

They are way behind, but using advertising dollars on a CGI or clay model of a concept car that is way far from production, vs using your advertising on Inegras or RDX's that you can sell today makes no sense.   This isn't even close to proaction, yet was getting advertising spend 6 months ago.  So deep down they know ICE is dead and Tesla will pass Honda in 2025 I bet.

As far as the Ram REV goes, it looks like they are positioning this as a $100k luxury truck, when they need a volume $50k truck.  Maybe that will follow, but they better get it going fast or the Cybertruck will take all Ram's sales too, because Tesla will have scale.

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are way behind, but using advertising dollars on a CGI or clay model of a concept car that is way far from production, vs using your advertising on Inegras or RDX's that you can sell today makes no sense.   This isn't even close to proaction, yet was getting advertising spend 6 months ago.  So deep down they know ICE is dead and Tesla will pass Honda in 2025 I bet.

 

As far as the Ram REV goes, it looks like they are positioning this as a $100k luxury truck, when they need a volume $50k truck.  Maybe that will follow, but they better get it going fast or the Cybertruck will take all Ram's sales too, because Tesla will have scale.

Where is Mercedes $25K EV or $30K EV, better yet where is Mercedes $50K EV Truck?

Tesla is the one falling behind, they still have not delivered the Roadster 2.0, have not delivered the Cybertruck $30K model and they say when it does go into production at the end of this year, start of next year they are focusing on the $100K model. 

Tesla has nothing but CGI Images of an ugly EV car that is supposed to be $25K, but they have failed on every low cost EV yet to date to produce anything but Generic, poor fit n finish, Luxury priced EVs that are slowing down in purchases by the public.

Even the investment community doubts they can hit 1.8 million EVs this year let alone 2 million as you like to say they will do. 

Mercedes, EV FAILURE

Tesla, EV Starter that is loosing market share to better built EVs from the Legacy.

I am willing to go out and say that in 2025, Tesla will be passed by at least 1 if not 2 legacy OEMs.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

So deep down they know ICE is dead

What part of "moving to EVs' are you not getting here? Does the simple concept elude you so much that you, again, have to make up this phantom about advertising and marketing timeframes? Seriously? How long has Benz been promoting the still not for sale Project One? 

Or how about thew G-Wagen?

First shown off by Mercedes September 2021 and still prominently on their website.

Again, you spend post after post complaining about other companies tactics while avoiding the fact that ALL brands (including your favorite) do this and have been doing this for decades now. Give it up already.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Maybe that will follow, but they better get it going fast or the Cybertruck will take all Ram's sales too, because Tesla will have scale.

Again, until that 3 year delayed truck is actually on sale, we can talk about "scale". Judging by it's most recent testing though, you have WAY higher hopes for it's success than just about everyone else lol.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 So deep down they know ICE is dead and Tesla will pass Honda in 2025 I bet.

Tesla doesn't have anything in the price range that most of Honda plays in. Tesla has 4 models, Honda has 9 if you don't count model variants, and 15 if you do. CR-V sales and Model 3 sales in the US are generally pretty close.  Civic + Accord easily trounce Model 3 in sales. Then the low volume / high price Model X and S get smashed by the rest of the Honda lineup in volume.

Honda sells twice as many Oddysseys than Tesla sells Model X.

Honda also sells 20,000 more Ridgelines than Tesla sells Model X.

Honda sells twice as many Pilots in the US than Tesla sells Model S globally.

Honda had a down year last year and sold just 3.8 million vehicles.  Tesla couldn't even manage half of that with 1.4 million.

Tesla is currently selling every vehicle they can build as fast as they can build them.  Where are they going to get more than double the manufacturing volume to catch up to, much less exceed, Honda?  Who are they going to sell them to while China's economy falls off a cliff?

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Maybe that will follow, but they better get it going fast or the Cybertruck will take all Ram's sales too, because Tesla will have scale.

I'll take "Things that won't happen for $100,000, Alex".

What makes you think that Ram won't have scale? Stellantis already has two battery factories under construction in the US, each with a 33 gW production capacity.

Over at Tesla "As of May 2019, Gigafactory 1 has achieved a theoretical capacity of 35 gigawatt-hours per year, but utilization levels have resulted in a 24 gigawatt-hour output, according to Panasonic President Kazuhiro Tsuga. "

14 hours ago, David said:

I am willing to go out and say that in 2025, Tesla will be passed by at least 1 if not 2 legacy OEMs.

I don't think any of the legacy automakers will have enough production up and running by 2025 to even do this, even if they have the product portfolio. 

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Tesla doesn't have anything in the price range that most of Honda plays in. Tesla has 4 models, Honda has 9 if you don't count model variants, and 15 if you do. CR-V sales and Model 3 sales in the US are generally pretty close.  Civic + Accord easily trounce Model 3 in sales. Then the low volume / high price Model X and S get smashed by the rest of the Honda lineup in volume.

Honda sells twice as many Oddysseys than Tesla sells Model X.

Honda also sells 20,000 more Ridgelines than Tesla sells Model X.

Honda sells twice as many Pilots in the US than Tesla sells Model S globally.

Honda had a down year last year and sold just 3.8 million vehicles.  Tesla couldn't even manage half of that with 1.4 million.

Tesla is currently selling every vehicle they can build as fast as they can build them.  Where are they going to get more than double the manufacturing volume to catch up to, much less exceed, Honda?  Who are they going to sell them to while China's economy falls off a cliff?

I'll take "Things that won't happen for $100,000, Alex".

What makes you think that Ram won't have scale? Stellantis already has two battery factories under construction in the US, each with a 33 gW production capacity.

Over at Tesla "As of May 2019, Gigafactory 1 has achieved a theoretical capacity of 35 gigawatt-hours per year, but utilization levels have resulted in a 24 gigawatt-hour output, according to Panasonic President Kazuhiro Tsuga. "

Tesla us 1.8 million capacity now, they can expand Austin and Berlin by another 250k units each, China can expand.  That’s 2.5 million next year, then Mexico is w million united for 2025 and they are at 4.5 million units which beats Honda, especially as Honda sales fall when Tesla brings a lower priced model.  If it isn’t in 2025 then it is 2026 for sure.  

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think any of the legacy automakers will have enough production up and running by 2025 to even do this, even if they have the product portfolio. 

Agree, they can’t scale fast enough, even if the Ram REV was $40,000, they could only sell like 25,000 a year probably, which is why it will be a $100k+ truck because they only need 25,000 buyers.

And legacy auto is still dumping money into ICE cars and improving ICE plants, they don’t really have the money to put 100% in EV.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla us 1.8 million capacity now, they can expand Austin and Berlin by another 250k units each, China can expand.  That’s 2.5 million next year, then Mexico is w million united for 2025 and they are at 4.5 million units which beats Honda, especially as Honda sales fall when Tesla brings a lower priced model.  If it isn’t in 2025 then it is 2026 for sure.  

I'll be curious how these same exact Teslas sell once they're all 10-15 years old, because there hasn't been a peep out about any all new refreshes or anything. 

Also, your numbers seem pretty insane. You know this, right? You think they'll just flip a switch this year and add 500k units of production AND demand immediately follows suit? 

Also, 1.8 +0.5 = 2.3, not 2.5. 300,000 unit's is significant here.

I'm not sure what your Mexico-plant sentence is supposed to say. 

I think we can all agree that Tesla saying they'll have an all-new 25k model is just magic dust until they ACTUALLY start production. Everything they've come out with brand new has had YEARS of delays before they're in customers' hands. So I don't think the legacy manufacturers are all that worried about a 25k Tesla until there's something tangible there, not just words. 

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Agree, they can’t scale fast enough, even if the Ram REV was $40,000, they could only sell like 25,000 a year probably, which is why it will be a $100k+ truck because they only need 25,000 buyers.

Where'd you get your 25,000 units number from? Just curious. 

14 hours ago, David said:

Where is Mercedes $25K EV or $30K EV, better yet where is Mercedes $50K EV Truck?

Tesla is the one falling behind, they still have not delivered the Roadster 2.0, have not delivered the Cybertruck $30K model and they say when it does go into production at the end of this year, start of next year they are focusing on the $100K model. 

Tesla has nothing but CGI Images of an ugly EV car that is supposed to be $25K, but they have failed on every low cost EV yet to date to produce anything but Generic, poor fit n finish, Luxury priced EVs that are slowing down in purchases by the public.

Even the investment community doubts they can hit 1.8 million EVs this year let alone 2 million as you like to say they will do. 

Mercedes, EV FAILURE

Tesla, EV Starter that is loosing market share to better built EVs from the Legacy.

I am willing to go out and say that in 2025, Tesla will be passed by at least 1 if not 2 legacy OEMs.

Mercedes doesn’t build $30,000 vehicles, but Chevy, Hyundai and Ford do.  Mercedes EV’s need about a 10% price cut to be right in line with Mercedes ICE pricing, the EQS is actually cheaper than an S-class but it isn’t as good a car either.  
 

I don’t see Mercedes growing much but they will survive.  In 10 years they’ll probably be about 2 million units a year, whereas I think some car companies either won’t be here or will have 25% or half their current size.

And bold prediction, no legacy OEM ever passes Tesla in EV sales.  

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Mercedes EV’s need about a 10% price cut to be right in line with Mercedes ICE pricing, the EQS is actually cheaper than an S-class but it isn’t as good a car either.  

More like >20% for everything that isn't an S Class.

EQS SUV & GLS

• EQS SUV: 104,400
• minus 20% would be: 83,520
• GLS: 81,800

EQE Sedan & E Class

• EQE Sedan: 74,900
• minus 20% would be: 59,920
• E Class: 56,750

EQB & GLB

• EQB SUV: 52,750
• minus 20% would be: 42,200
• GLB: 39,800

EQE SUV & GLE

• EQE SUV: 77,900
• minus 20% would be: 62,320
• GLE: 57,700

Every one of those is greater than 20% higher than their ICE sibling. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes doesn’t build $30,000 vehicles

The $33K A-Class must not have received that memo.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think any of the legacy automakers will have enough production up and running by 2025 to even do this, even if they have the product portfolio. 

GM will have more battery capacity than Tesla by the end of this year and has a track record of ramping up production on the assembly line. GM has still stated they see no problem hitting 1 million EVs production by 2025 if not more.

VW is the real company to surpass Tesla first I believe and it is proven in the news interviews where VW surpassed their EV sales goals 1 year earlier and are now on track globally to surpass Tesla as early as early 2024.

Volkswagen announces five-year plan for EV, software production (electrek.co)

Between VW and GM these are the two companies I expect to surpass Tesla in the next couple of years. Then there is the Chinese who already are outselling Tesla in their home market but also these same Chinese companies are expanding into Europe on track to outsell Tesla there by 2025.

Yes, I believe Tesla has a big problem with a very stale product line with terrible fit n finish. This on top of as you have pointed out, and pretty much everyone else knows is that Tesla has NEVER DELIVERED on schedule a product.

Mexico assembly plant is doubtful it will be online before end of 2025. Ramping up Texas and Germany has not gone smoothly for them. Getting to the fictional numbers @smk4565 stated is going to be hard as more pressure comes on from the Legacy OEMs as they ramp production. Kia EV9 is getting very positive press based on attendees at the NY Auto show. This is going to make it hard if they do price it right from $55 to $60K starting for Tesla to compete as the only thing they have right now is the Tesla X to compete against the EV9. Big price difference and quality on the Kia EVs has been way better than the Tesla's.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

And bold prediction, no legacy OEM ever passes Tesla in EV sales.

Tesla is only ahead in EVs because that's all they do.

Telsa is losing the tax credit on several versions of its cars.

Tesla woke a sleeping giant in GM.

Elon is doing himself no favors with his open politics and twitter shenanigans.  He is turning people off to the brand.

28 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The $33K A-Class must not have received that memo.

 

That went over so well it's canceled already.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

EQB & GLB

• EQB SUV: 52,750
• minus 20% would be: 42,200
• GLB: 39,800

$52k for an Electric Dodge Colt Vista.

But hey, they saved 0.5 miles of range by not having electrically adjustable seats in it.

7 minutes ago, David said:

GM has still stated they see no problem hitting 1 million EVs production by 2025 if not more.

Well, 1 million is still less than what Tesla did last year, 1.31m. 

I thoroughly believe GM will surpass Tesla in total sales but I don't think it'll happen by 2025. That's a hell of a lot of production and sales to pop up in less 3 years.

There's just no way that growth can happen just in the industry itself. Even if they did have the production capacity to hit 1.5m throughout 2025, the demand also has to be there. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla us 1.8 million capacity now, they can expand Austin and Berlin by another 250k units each, China can expand.  That’s 2.5 million next year, then Mexico is w million united for 2025 and they are at 4.5 million units which beats Honda, especially as Honda sales fall when Tesla brings a lower priced model.  If it isn’t in 2025 then it is 2026 for sure.

Capacity is not sales

Capacity is not sales

Capacity is not sales

Capacity is not sales

Honda already has a higher capacity than their sales.
Why would Tesla expand in a country experiencing a major demographically caused economic failure? Who's going to buy those extra 250k units?
Europe is falling into stagflation.
Things aren't great here in the US, but they're better than everywhere else.

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Well, 1 million is still less than what Tesla did last year, 1.31m. 

I thoroughly believe GM will surpass Tesla in total sales but I don't think it'll happen by 2025. That's a hell of a lot of production and sales to pop up in less 3 years.

There's just no way that growth can happen just in the industry itself. Even if they did have the production capacity to hit 1.5m throughout 2025, the demand also has to be there. 

This.

And there's problems brewing on the sales side of the industry as well. Interest rates are not going to help sales and a lot of people who bought vehicles at very inflated prices over the last 18 months are severely under water.

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That went over so well it's canceled already.

True but he has made that $30K statement for the last few years so it was fair to point out the flaw in his statement lol. 

For those of you who don't follow our Facebook, there has been a rather raucous EV discussion there in the comments of the link to this article.

I e-mailed Ram earlier today to find out if the Ram 1500 REV will be equipped with a heat pump, and the answer is yes.  So range degradation in the cold should be minimal.

A hidden time bomb? A 'Big Short' investor sees financial disaster brewing in housing markets (msn.com)

Here is part one of the big financial mess we have brewing to hit us that will affect auto sales.

Then we have the auto industry and some of the biggest companies are falling down.

NO, What A FEELING! Toyota March 2023 Sales Fall Off A Cliff. - AutoSpies Auto News

Car Market Outlook: What To Expect In 2023 - Forbes Wheels Pretty much New Auto prices are expected to fall by 5% on average and discounts will start to increase to move old models sitting on the dealer lots as consumers move towards EVs.

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

For those of you who don't follow our Facebook, there has been a rather raucous EV discussion there in the comments of the link to this article.

I e-mailed Ram earlier today to find out if the Ram 1500 REV will be equipped with a heat pump, and the answer is yes.  So range degradation in the cold should be minimal.

Heat Pump is great to hear, appreciate you posting about that here as I never will do Facebook.

16 minutes ago, David said:

A hidden time bomb? A 'Big Short' investor sees financial disaster brewing in housing markets (msn.com)

Here is part one of the big financial mess we have brewing to hit us that will affect auto sales.

This is probably a whole different topic to talk about... .but yes.