Chevy Increases Bolt Range

It's a nice increase and they're getting close to that magical 300 mile number. 

Anyone seen the Chevy BEV CUV pic floating around?

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Anyone seen the Chevy BEV CUV pic floating around?

Supposed to be for China only. 

Other than bleak sales predictions, which, you know; are legit- that makes little sense.

17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Other than bleak sales predictions, which, you know; are legit- that makes little sense.

Take away the trucks and Big SUVs, and GM sells more vehicles in china than in the US these days.  

32 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Take away the trucks and Big SUVs, and GM sells more vehicles in china than in the US these days.  

That's a weird caveat. They produce vehicles for the market they are selling them in. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

That's a weird caveat. They produce vehicles for the market they are selling them in. 

It explains why cars specifically are geared towards China first... and even though they may call it a crossover, that Bolt CUV is just a tall station wagon. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It explains why cars specifically are geared towards China first... and even though they may call it a crossover, that Bolt CUV is just a tall station wagon. 

It also explains why Buick sales are basically geared towards China given that each Chinese Buick outsells the ones here by 4 to 1. 

Also, the Bolt, while nice at 259 miles, needs to have a range that ideally exceeds 400 miles, not just 300.  One more thing, where is my Equinox BEV with a 350-mile range?

@OCNBLU might have got this instead of the Canyon if he had known about the extra 21 miles of range on the horizon!!!!!

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

the Canyon

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

 

 

WHOOPS. SORRY, i meant COLORADO.

pls forgive me i get those badge engineered GM products mixed up all the timez....momentary lapse.

I forgot your like for Colorados.....

Well if Chevy can sell one additional Bolt in America next year they can claim a boom in EV sales.  The Oasis Blue with white dash combo sounds spectacular.

Seriously... real question... the Chevy Bolt is a sweet little CUV... it has the friendliest demeanor and it comes across as easiest to use out of all the EVs out there... and it is not selling.  This should be construed as a clue in a sensible world.  What was that report... $13k/unit lost on every Bolt they sell?  Would be a Herculean feat to turn that number into a positive $1.00... when ppl are not displaying a propensity to drop everything and bolt into their local Chevy dealer to snatch these up.

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Well if Chevy can sell one additional Bolt in America next year they can claim a boom in EV sales.  The Oasis Blue with white dash combo sounds spectacular.

Seriously... real question... the Chevy Bolt is a sweet little CUV... it has the friendliest demeanor and it comes across as easiest to use out of all the EVs out there... and it is not selling.  This should be construed as a clue in a sensible world.  What was that report... $13k/unit lost on every Bolt they sell?  Would be a Herculean feat to turn that number into a positive $1.00... when ppl are not displaying a propensity to drop everything and bolt into their local Chevy dealer to snatch these up.

Lets talk about why BOLT does not sell well. A number of valid bullets to take into consideration:

• It is not a Tesla
• Public hate for all things GM
• Lack of proper marketing
• Lack of training of Chevrolet Sales people on how to sell an EV.
• Lack of public knowledge on how to fuel up on the road.
• Lack of EV brand perception.
• Hatred created by killing the original EV1 by GM.
• Cost especially with cheap fuel and cheaper trucks / cuv / suv
• Washington DC Versus GM Politics.
• Global demand is up, but limited production due to battery pack production is holding back increased sales - Read the Fool.com Investment Analysis which covers the global demand for the BOLT.

To quote the electric power research institute in Palo Alto CA:

Mark Duvall, director of energy utilization for the Electric Power Research Institute in Palo Alto, told the San Jose Mercury News, “It takes a long time to change someone’s inherent perceptions about new technology…especially with one of the two biggest purchases people make.”

https://www.plugincars.com/why-238-mile-chevy-bolt-not-selling-hotcakes-132776.html

https://www.torquenews.com/5477/2019-chevy-bolt-hasn-t-been-selling-very-well-and-it-isn-t-car-s-fault

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/07/05/is-this-why-sales-of-general-motors-chevrolet-bolt.aspx

End result is that the BOLT and all other Electrics are held back by battery production, limited supplies, higher costs till economy of scale kicks in and Limited options.

Final part is IGNORANCE with a BIG DOSE of a lack to learn and understand changing technology.

The Bolt seems like it would make a decent city car...but it's really tiny, goofy looking and pricey.  Maybe a restyle w/ squared off mini-Silverado front end styling would help...

Volt was too small. So is Bolt. 

If you want a chance at mainstream sales you have to size the vehicle where more people want it. A plug in Malibu at volt price or less for example. The fusion energi has sold ok.  Or perhaps the bolt could have been Equinox sized. 

I thought I saw something that said GM was looking at solid state ev batteries. Makes me wonder if all these car manufacturers are worried about getting slammed with toxic waste lawsuits aplenty when all these current hybrids are getting disposed of.

i do like bolt and volt a lot.  Just not practical to own with their size and limited options. 

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The Bolt seems like it would make a decent city car...but it's really tiny, goofy looking and pricey.  Maybe a restyle w/ squared off mini-Silverado front end styling would help...

I will second several points echoed from the past (one of which dfelt already pointed out). The looks are a problem for a lot of folks. It looks like a CUV yet it offers nothing that other CUVs offer, like AWD or 4WD. That kills a huge subsection of potential CUV buyers looking to go green. Second, and this is the big one, has been total lack of marketing, much like the diesels certain folks here crow over. I worked at a Chevy dealership last year and during that time they had exactly one Bolt that sat for almost two months with a $44K price tag on it. Most of the sales people knew jack and $h! about the car and that price was a huge pill to swallow for a lot of folks. All of this had nothing to do with the powertrain and that’s what the dinosaurs don’t get. It has said a million times in the last, that had the EV tech gone in something more like the Equinox, sales would be better (potential high price not withstanding). I don’t know why the EV hater here doesn’t get what has been discussed a thousand times now but those are the simple facts. 

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well if Chevy can sell one additional Bolt in America next year they can claim a boom in EV sales.  The Oasis Blue with white dash combo sounds spectacular.

Seriously... real question... the Chevy Bolt is a sweet little CUV... it has the friendliest demeanor and it comes across as easiest to use out of all the EVs out there... and it is not selling.  This should be construed as a clue in a sensible world.  What was that report... $13k/unit lost on every Bolt they sell?  Would be a Herculean feat to turn that number into a positive $1.00... when ppl are not displaying a propensity to drop everything and bolt into their local Chevy dealer to snatch these up.

Diesels don’t sell for $h! here either and their issues have cost manufacturers BILLIONS. Guess, by your logic, we should give those up too right?

Just for you @ocnblu, this article covers the issues facing the Bolt perfectly. Read it, understand it, and move on from your endless troll act. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2019/07/21/chevy-bolt-the-best-ev-youve-never-heard-of--still/amp/

I'm not a modern car styling fan but I think the Bolt looks fine, certainly no worse than any other in it's size class.

But to those saying the 'Bolt doesn't sell well' are all wrong. This is the typical filter a GM vehicle must always go thru- "it must sell in the 100s of thousands because it's a GM, or it's a flop". Doesn't work that way, certainly not now.

Tesla aside (and there, really only the Model 3 applies), the Bolt sells very well…. FOR AN ELECTRIC. The problem is NOT marketing or the looks or the price, it's the #4 selling BEV in the country. It outsells the Model S and is neck & neck with the Model X.

The problem is electrics don't sell well compared to IC vehicles. AT ALL. The Bolt is electric. Duh.    

8 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

It looks like a CUV yet it offers nothing that other CUVs offer, like AWD or 4WD. That kills a huge subsection of potential CUV buyers looking to go green

Nissan Kicks (FWD only CUV of small stature) 2019 YTD through the second quarter:  29263

Chevy Bolt (FWD only CUV of small stature) 2019 YTD through the second quarter:  8281.

Surreal, don't think I don't remember when you dug in your heels insisting the Bolt IS NOT a CUV... now you say it is.

8 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

sales would be better

LOL so you were a lot jockey at a dealership for five minutes last year.  How many times do we need to hear this.  I've worked at dealerships every working day since March, 1993.

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Nissan Kicks (FWD only CUV of small stature) 2019 YTD through the second quarter:  29263

Chevy Bolt (FWD only CUV of small stature) 2019 YTD through the second quarter:  8281.

 

Surreal, don't think I don't remember when you dug in your heels insisting the Bolt IS NOT a CUV... now you say it is.

LOL so you were a lot jockey at a dealership for five minutes last year.  How many times do we need to hear this.  I've worked at dealerships every working day since March, 1993.

I don’t give two $h!s what you think I remember. No AWD or 4WD option equals tall wagon. Again, regardless of the ONE GM page you found said, their own window stickers say “Wagon” and they were not once marketed as a CUV. And your reading comprehension is lacking as usual  I said that it “looks like a CUV” not that it was a CUV and that CUV buyers will not look twice at it SINCE IT IS NOT A CUV! Understand it now? Big difference there that even a five year old could figure out.

And comparing a car that’s half the price of the Bolt (your Kicks reference)? That takes a special kind of stretching to say the least. 

Just keep that level of ignorance to yourself next time. 

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Nissan Kicks (FWD only CUV of small stature) 2019 YTD through the second quarter:  29263

Chevy Bolt (FWD only CUV of small stature) 2019 YTD through the second quarter:  8281.

 

Surreal, don't think I don't remember when you dug in your heels insisting the Bolt IS NOT a CUV... now you say it is.

LOL so you were a lot jockey at a dealership for five minutes last year.  How many times do we need to hear this.  I've worked at dealerships every working day since March, 1993.

Wtf does my previous job have anything to do with this conversation? The answer is “nothing”. Personally I find it sad that you’ve done it for 26 years yet come off as spectacularly ignorant towards a huge subsection of cars but that laugh fest is for another time.

For the record though, I’ve worked at three different dealerships in two states in the last eighteen years, two of those in sales. Doesn’t change any facts mentioned here so keep that condescending BS to yourself.

Speaking of “how many times”  

How many times do we need that you hate EVs? You talk the talk but sure as hell cant walk the walk. Just more juvenile snowflake bull$h!. 

Honestly @balthazar covered it pretty damn well. The resident hater, that never offers anything to an EV discussion other than snarky remarks and trolling, should read that three times before joining in an adult discussion again. 

For all the hiccups in gaining a solid foothold in the US, EVs and alternative fuel vehicles are doing far better than anything Diesel which is only propped by pick up sales with a few van sales sprinkled in for good measure. They are non-existent in CUVs and sedans. Funny how those dismal sales aren’t brought up by EV haters with the same vigor that is presented here. 

^ I wonder what the parameters for categorizing were used in the above. I ask because insideevs.com states 87,459 electrics were sold in Q2 2019. 

Which means: 337,098 - 87,459 = 249,639 vehicles were non gas, non diesel AND non-electric.

Even looking at the chart above ::
BEV sedans: 60K,  SUVs: 6K
hybrid sedans: 54K, SUVs: 67K
plug-in sedans: 17K, SUVs: 5K
only equals 209K, not 337K.

What's going on there?

56 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ I wonder what the parameters for categorizing were used in the above. I ask because insideevs.com states 87,459 electrics were sold in Q2 2019. 

Which means: 337,098 - 87,459 = 249,639 vehicles were non gas, non diesel AND non-electric.

Even looking at the chart above ::
BEV sedans: 60K,  SUVs: 6K
hybrid sedans: 54K, SUVs: 67K
plug-in sedans: 17K, SUVs: 5K
only equals 209K, not 337K.

What's going on there?

Sorry. Meant to source that. 

https://www.dieselforum.org/vehiclesales/u-s-vehicle-sales-dashboard

22 hours ago, dfelt said:

Final part is IGNORANCE with a BIG DOSE of a lack to learn and understand changing technology.

Disagree.  Totally.  Just for the record I like the Chevy Bolt.  Wouldn't own one, that is a given, but it is a much friendlier example of the genre than anything Tesla could dream up.

*cough cough*bull——!*cough cough*

Quick tip -

27 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Quick tip -

Thanks. Here’s two for you the next time you want to try and insult someone over where they worked and what they did just because you don’t approve of the subject matter. 

The issues with the Bolt are pretty simple. Either market the hell out of it to increase sales and awareness or cease selling it and move on towards better applications of EV tech like an actual CUV or SUV. It certainly is a better use of money than investing in diesels that no one wants. Combined sales of the Colorado and Canyon (both less than the Bolt for the year) back this up. 

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/01/20190116-dtf.html

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/01/20190116-dtf.html

WOW, Pulling an SMK of moving the goal post and pointing at a total different auto class rather than talking the one brought up.

The mid size sale of Diesel trucks is a loss from a business stand point, the cost and increase in fuel price, maintenance, etc. the public has decided is not wanted compared to full size diesel trucks and one that I am pretty sure is in the Redneck non college educated crowd.

I agree with @surreal1272 GM needs to either market it and point out the benefits of the auto, or build it as a true wanted AWD CUV/SUV.

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

WOW, Pulling an SMK of moving the goal post and pointing at a total different auto class rather than talking the one brought up.

The mid size sale of Diesel trucks is a loss from a business stand point, the cost and increase in fuel price, maintenance, etc. the public has decided is not wanted compared to full size diesel trucks and one that I am pretty sure is in the Redneck non college educated crowd.

I agree with @surreal1272 GM needs to either market it and point out the benefits of the auto, or build it as a true wanted AWD CUV/SUV.

I need you to post a link to Colorado/Canyon diesel truck sales.  GM hamstrings themselves with the 4 cylinder Duramax (and the upcoming I-6 in the Silverado/Sierra) by treating it like a luxury option, instead of a workmen's option.  FCA gets it.  Do you think for one minute a Colorado/Canyon Duramax fleet model wouldn't sell?  An extended cab mainstream trim Duramax wouldn't sell?  Of course it would.  Get out of here with your SMK BS.

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

the Redneck non college educated crowd

Be careful, your elitism is showing.  As well as your ignorance.

44 minutes ago, dfelt said:

WOW, Pulling an SMK of moving the goal post and pointing at a total different auto class rather than talking the one brought up.

The mid size sale of Diesel trucks is a loss from a business stand point, the cost and increase in fuel price, maintenance, etc. the public has decided is not wanted compared to full size diesel trucks and one that I am pretty sure is in the Redneck non college educated crowd.

I agree with @surreal1272 GM needs to either market it and point out the benefits of the auto, or build it as a true wanted AWD CUV/SUV.

Proper reading comprehension and sticking to the subject were never his forte. Cut him some slack. 

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Proper reading comprehension and sticking to the subject were never his forte. Cut him some slack.

OK, I will.  This time.

47 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

I need you to post a link to Colorado/Canyon diesel truck sales.  GM hamstrings themselves with the 4 cylinder Duramax (and the upcoming I-6 in the Silverado/Sierra) by treating it like a luxury option, instead of a workmen's option.  FCA gets it.  Do you think for one minute a Colorado/Canyon Duramax fleet model wouldn't sell?  An extended cab mainstream trim Duramax wouldn't sell?  Of course it would.  Get out of here with your SMK BS.

 

Be careful, your elitism is showing.  As well as your ignorance.

 

You really want to talk about “elitism” with that BS you spouted about me yesterday? Seriously? Next time just call yourself a hypocrite and remove all doubt. 

So criticize the SMK way yet use it as your reason for Diesel sales being in the toilet? What I’m seeing out of your hypocrisy is that excuses for diesels are okay but not when it comes to EVs. Face it. Outside of the heavy duty pick up market and some other commercial uses, the AVERAGE BUYER in this country (buying it for themselves and not for business) don’t care about diesels. This has been true for nearly half a century now yet the dinosaurs can’t see that very obvious writing on the wall.

And regarding the cylinder count in the GM twins, that is not the problem. I drove the Colorado Diesel last year and was pleasantly surprised (thank you torque) by it. It is not lacking for ability as a commercial use truck because of having two fewer cylinders. Any reasonable person would understand that after one drive. Again though, the average buyer just doesn’t care and probably because the full size diesel pick up market is just that dominant and tends to render smaller pick ups rather useless in their eyes, whether the reason is valid or not.

Oh and I provided the source of those numbers on the previous page. Since you have a habit of reading what you want to read, here’s a screenshot and said link. 

https://www.dieselforum.org/vehiclesales/u-s-vehicle-sales-dashboard

Thanks for the link, Scarpachi

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Thanks for the link, Scarpachi

Pay attention next time and I won’t have to correct you  (and provide a link) again Spanky. 

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Pay attention next time and I won’t have to correct you

LOL pfffffffffft settle down

On 8/24/2019 at 7:26 AM, dfelt said:

Lets talk about why BOLT does not sell well. A number of valid bullets to take into consideration:

• It is not a Tesla
• Public hate for all things GM
• Lack of proper marketing
• Lack of training of Chevrolet Sales people on how to sell an EV.
• Lack of public knowledge on how to fuel up on the road.
• Lack of EV brand perception.
• Hatred created by killing the original EV1 by GM.
• Cost especially with cheap fuel and cheaper trucks / cuv / suv
• Washington DC Versus GM Politics.
• Global demand is up, but limited production due to battery pack production is holding back increased sales - Read the Fool.com Investment Analysis which covers the global demand for the BOLT.

To quote the electric power research institute in Palo Alto CA:

Mark Duvall, director of energy utilization for the Electric Power Research Institute in Palo Alto, told the San Jose Mercury News, “It takes a long time to change someone’s inherent perceptions about new technology…especially with one of the two biggest purchases people make.”

https://www.plugincars.com/why-238-mile-chevy-bolt-not-selling-hotcakes-132776.html

https://www.torquenews.com/5477/2019-chevy-bolt-hasn-t-been-selling-very-well-and-it-isn-t-car-s-fault

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/07/05/is-this-why-sales-of-general-motors-chevrolet-bolt.aspx

End result is that the BOLT and all other Electrics are held back by battery production, limited supplies, higher costs till economy of scale kicks in and Limited options.

Final part is IGNORANCE with a BIG DOSE of a lack to learn and understand changing technology.

I don't really think all of those are factors. I think the biggest two are its quirky styling that isn't car and isn't SUV and the other is range. The dealerships should be knowledgeable enough to educate the buyers to let them know that they will likely never need to find a charging station unless they're traveling but I have a friend who works at a dealership and he doesn't know jack sht about cars. I can only imagine most car salespeople are the same based off buying experiences. 

If anything, Tesla should be helping sell EVs by having a great brand image for electric cars. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I don't really think all of those are factors. I think the biggest two are its quirky styling that isn't car and isn't SUV and the other is range. The dealerships should be knowledgeable enough to educate the buyers to let them know that they will likely never need to find a charging station unless they're traveling but I have a friend who works at a dealership and he doesn't know jack sht about cars. I can only imagine most car salespeople are the same based off buying experiences. 

If anything, Tesla should be helping sell EVs by having a great brand image for electric cars. 

I second the dealership knowledge part and will add this little tidbit. I cannot tell you how many times I had to drive or just simply move a car because certain sale people couldn’t drive a damn stick! I get that it’s a niche market for those now but it baffles me how a sale person can claim to be knowledgeable about a car but can’t actually drive it. Today’s world. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

I second the dealership knowledge part and will add this little tidbit. I cannot tell you how many times I had to drive or just simply move a car because certain sale people couldn’t drive a damn stick! I get that it’s a niche market for those now but it baffles me how a sale person can claim to be knowledgeable about a car but can’t actually drive it. Today’s world. 

I think it should be a legitimate requirement if your brand sells manual transmissions. There is no excuse for somebody who's job requires you to move vehicles around and you can't do part of the job because you're too lazy to learn. Inexcusable, imo. They don't have to be good or great at it but you should be able to do your job. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

I second the dealership knowledge part and will add this little tidbit. I cannot tell you how many times I had to drive or just simply move a car because certain sale people couldn’t drive a damn stick! I get that it’s a niche market for those now but it baffles me how a sale person can claim to be knowledgeable about a car but can’t actually drive it. Today’s world. 

It is amazing how many sale people are just plain dumb about the auto as they have only focused on the basic sales process:

1. Greet the customer
2. Qualify the customer
3. Trial close the customer
4. Overcome objections from the customer
5. Take them to the bank.

The basic 5 step how to sell pitch and that seems to be where most sales people's brains stop functioning. I am always shaking my head when they throw stuff out that is so wrong about the auto one is looking at be it the wrong engine, wrong features, wrong color options, wrong way of how a certain technology works. Most of the time, I just have to bite my tongue when I go to a dealership at the large amount of wrong information.

This is a key piece as to why the BOLT does not sell better, the lack of knowledge and understanding of an EV along with the benefits.

At 259 mile range, the battery range should not be an anxiety issue for the commuter person.

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I think it should be a legitimate requirement if your brand sells manual transmissions. There is no excuse for somebody who's job requires you to move vehicles around and you can't do part of the job because you're too lazy to learn. Inexcusable, imo. They don't have to be good or great at it but you should be able to do your job. 

So True as being lazy to learn a manual is on par with the lack of learning the auto's they sell. Amazing the ignorance of so many sales people.

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

It is amazing how many sale people are just plain dumb about the auto as they have only focused on the basic sales process:

1. Greet the customer
2. Qualify the customer
3. Trial close the customer
4. Overcome objections from the customer
5. Take them to the bank.

The basic 5 step how to sell pitch and that seems to be where most sales people's brains stop functioning. I am always shaking my head when they throw stuff out that is so wrong about the auto one is looking at be it the wrong engine, wrong features, wrong color options, wrong way of how a certain technology works. Most of the time, I just have to bite my tongue when I go to a dealership at the large amount of wrong information.

It is mind boggling how much wrong information they spread and lack of knowledge of their own products. The steps are 100% what you just said.

I told my buddy what I was looking for and what I wanted to spend and he tried to get me into something else. "You don't want that. You want xxx." Sorry bud, I like you as a friend but you're not telling me what I want and why I want it. I'd rather give him $50 and never have to worry about buying from him. Let's have a mutual agreement that won't make this awkward. He did that with both my Escape and Focus purchases. Short story;  I didn't buy either from him. 

I think any unpopularity of the Bolt rests entirely with its looks. It's a great little scamp otherwise. 

Wish I had mad phat Photoshop skillz.... like to see how a Bolt would look if the front looked like a scaled-down Silverado HD.   Or with a  Camaro inspired front like the Blazer. 

I wonder what a Bolt would look like if it was exactly an Equinox or Blazer? 

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I wonder what a Bolt would look like if it was exactly an Equinox or Blazer? 

A quarter of a million dollars.  And still no sales.

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

A quarter of a million dollars.  And still no sales.

And trolling award winner strikes back with no empirical evidence to back up his baseless comment. 

8 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I wonder what a Bolt would look like if it was exactly an Equinox or Blazer? 

An Equinox would certainly sell in higher numbers than a Bolt and might actually turn a profit for GM if done right, ie market the damn thing. 

45 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

An Equinox would certainly sell in higher numbers than a Bolt and might actually turn a profit for GM if done right, ie market the damn thing. 

Going to disagree with you here. 1. it should sell in higher numbers being it's a CUV, but note it would also, unquestionably, be more expensive. Bolt is the #4 selling electric, but a E-Equinox would be $50K. Recall the flutter over the Blazer RS @ $50K. So the sales question is up in the air. As for profit, no one else has managed that, and volume isn't helping that scenario either, so far. 

Bolt's on pace to sell 15,900 this year. Let's say the E-Equinox sells 20,000 @ $47K. Do you realistically expect more volume than that? And if not, is that "selling"??

Current Equinox is on pace to sell 348,000 units this year.

Yet the missing piece is ECONOMY OF SCALE. Seems a few folks here are stuck on thinking that when the right packaged auto is built that it would not become profitable at economy of scale.

I honestly think a few folks will be eating crow when the EV market explodes in sales while ICE dwindles and dies.

5 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yet the missing piece is ECONOMY OF SCALE. Seems a few folks here are stuck on thinking that when the right packaged auto is built that it would not become profitable at economy of scale.

I honestly think a few folks will be eating crow when the EV market explodes in sales while ICE dwindles and dies.

Don't count on ICE dwindling and dying for at least a decade or more.  Batteries need to be better and scale a lot better for ICE to no longer being king of the hill.

9 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Don't count on ICE dwindling and dying for at least a decade or more.  Batteries need to be better and scale a lot better for ICE to no longer being king of the hill.

I totally agree with you that ICE will be around for a decade or two.

The point I am trying to make is that EVs when the right package at the right price comes out, people will flock and just as the Equinox is on track to sell almost 400,000 this year, I see no reason as to why an EV should not be profitable at that quality/quantity also. Economy of scale. Production goes up, costs go down.

Tesla is just so inefficient at production cause Musk had to do it his way that he FAILED to take advantage of Economy of Scale based on using what has been working for the last 100 plus years on assembling autos.