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    William Maley

    FCA's Upcoming Small Cars To Switch To PSA Group Architecture

      Another Piece of the Stellantis Puzzle Falls Into Place

    Future small cars from Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will not be using an updated version of their small car platform. Instead, they'll be underpinned by PSA Group's Common Modular Platform (CMP).

    Automotive News obtained a letter sent by FCA to suppliers in July stating "to immediately stop any research, development and tooling construction activities on future B-segment (small/subcompact) cars." These include the Fiat 500 and Jeep Renegade to give some context. The letter goes on to say it is moving to CMP and that vehicles based on this will be built at the company's Tychy, Poland plant - home to 500 and Lancia Yplilon production. 

    FCA had already put a stop, albeit a temporary one on developing parts for the five new small cars that were destined to use this platform due to COVID-19. There will be one model that will move forward on this orphaned platform - the upcoming 500 electric for Europe.

    As for CMP, this underpins the Peugeot 208 and 2008; Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, Mokka; and the DS3 Crossback. It allows for both combustion and electric powertrains.

    Moving to CMP is another step towards FCA and PSA Group's merger to become Stellantis. It is unclear whether or not the U.S. will see any of the new models that will use CMP from FCA's brands.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)



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    I am willing to bet we see Fiat go away from the US again as people here just do not want their crap. The only way Fiat stays and lives on is by going CUV with Mid and full size.

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    Fiat will be gone, I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.  So if Chrysler is only 1 minivan, they can just move that to Dodge and close down Chrysler.  That gives Stellantis Dodge-Jeep for American flavor, and they'll bing in Peugeot for European flavor and put that in the same dealerships.  And Ram will stay as it is with American sourced pickups and European sourced vans.

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    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Fiat will be gone, I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.  So if Chrysler is only 1 minivan, they can just move that to Dodge and close down Chrysler.  That gives Stellantis Dodge-Jeep for American flavor, and they'll bing in Peugeot for European flavor and put that in the same dealerships.  And Ram will stay as it is with American sourced pickups and European sourced vans.

    Disagree, with the dislike that has been fostered by certain people in this country towards certain countries / name plates, I honestly cannot see Peugeot coming into the US right now. As such, I would expect rebadge of Peugeot as Chrysler.

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    Fiat? Oh, yeah, no thanks. Now, if by Fiat you mean an Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio, we're back on the same page. Yes, we all know they're known to be unreliable, but what a sweet, distinctive looking ride inside and out. Definitely a Ferrari feel with the interior design and the same red Start/Stop button on the steering wheel. Sat in one at our last Auto show, she was a gem.

    2018-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-ltwr

    2018-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-ltwr

     

    Edited by USA-1
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    Ferrari engineered 6 cylinder under the hood too...  and it makes a sweet sweet sound.  LIKE a Ferrari.   I wouldnt buy it though.  

    I would much much rather have that 80 thousand dollah Challenger with that sweet sweet supercharged Hemi.   

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    12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

    Ferrari engineered 6 cylinder under the hood too...  and it makes a sweet sweet sound.  LIKE a Ferrari.   I wouldnt buy it though.  

    I would much much rather have that 80 thousand dollah Challenger with that sweet sweet supercharged Hemi.   

    Or for $80k...C8 for me!

    https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a33633294/the-dollar80000-would-you-rather-c8-corvette-or-f-350-tremor/

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    Would like to see Dodge get a small CUV, more street oriented than a Jeep counterpart.  Would like to see Chrysler get something based on the new GC's platform, again, more street/luxury than a Jeep counterpart.

    The 300 is such a sweet car.  Will be sad to see it go.  I've said it before, it is like the last man standing, and what a tall and proud man.

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    That works!  But Im more of a mid-sized/fullsized muscle car guy  although with that magnetic ride the C8 has got, its much more luxury plush making you forget you are in a sports car.  Like I said, the C8 works just fine! 

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    4 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Would like to see Dodge get a small CUV, more street oriented than a Jeep counterpart.  Would like to see Chrysler get something based on the new GC's platform, again, more street/luxury than a Jeep counterpart.

    The 300 is such a sweet car.  Will be sad to see it go.  I've said it before, it is like the last man standing, and what a tall and proud man.

    Whats better than a Hellcat (Red-Eye) Charger?

    A  Chrysler 300C SRT8  Hellcat (Red-Eye) !

      Its sad that the 300C SRT8 stopped being a thing in the US for close to a decade now. Its sadder that the 300 will never be a Hellcat.  

     

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    1 hour ago, David said:

    Disagree, with the dislike that has been fostered by certain people in this country towards certain countries / name plates, I honestly cannot see Peugeot coming into the US right now. As such, I would expect rebadge of Peugeot as Chrysler.

    Peugeot is the #1 selling brand worldwide for Stellantis and the guy that runs the company is from the Carlos Ghosn school of cost cutting.  He has zero emotional connection to Dodge or Chrysler or Fiat, he is going to push what makes money and my guess is he sees money to be made with Peugeot's crossovers being sort of his GMC/Buick competitor as something a little more stylish and upscale than Chevy/Toyota mainstream offerings.

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    5 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    Even more sinister looking is this Coupe version with new LED headlights that add a scowling kind of glare look to the front, 2021 Alfa GTV. 👍🏼

    2021 alfa romeo gtv

    https://www.caranddriver.com/alfa-romeo/gtv

    This auto is just :puke: Ugly to me. different in a bad sort of way. :puke:

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Peugeot is the #1 selling brand worldwide for Stellantis and the guy that runs the company is from the Carlos Ghosn school of cost cutting.  He has zero emotional connection to Dodge or Chrysler or Fiat, he is going to push what makes money and my guess is he sees money to be made with Peugeot's crossovers being sort of his GMC/Buick competitor as something a little more stylish and upscale than Chevy/Toyota mainstream offerings.

    RIGHT........................................

    You must have forgotten that America has a terrible impression of Peugeot. If you think he can make bank selling that label here in the US, I have Beach Front Property in Arizona to sell you next to the Grand Canyon! :) 

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    1 minute ago, David said:

    This auto is just :puke: Ugly to me. different in a bad sort of way. :puke:

    Ya 🐂💩er :smilewide:  I think it's automotive art on wheels :P

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    2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

    Ferrari engineered 6 cylinder under the hood too...  and it makes a sweet sweet sound.  LIKE a Ferrari.   I wouldnt buy it though.  

    I would much much rather have that 80 thousand dollah Challenger with that sweet sweet supercharged Hemi.   

    I meant to say Charger.  

    13 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    Even more sinister looking is this Coupe version with new LED headlights that add a scowling kind of glare look to the front, 2021 Alfa GTV. 👍🏼

    2021 alfa romeo gtv

    https://www.caranddriver.com/alfa-romeo/gtv

     

    THIS is where the Challenger comes in...as in Id rather a Challenger than this. 

    Great render though.  A Giulia coupe/GTV looking like that is hot nonetheless. 

     

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    12 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    Ya 🐂💩er :smilewide:  I think it's automotive art on wheels :P

    Ya should be nicer when you talk about yourself! :P 

    Did mommy not hug you enough growing up in Oregon around all those 🐄

    :roflmao:

     

    I give ya a Hug, after all 🐮 are cute and deserve love too!

    🤗

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    And American buyers have zero positive perception of peugeot. A fool's gamble.

    Dodge, Chrysler and Fiat have negative images.  Carlos is going to bring something here, and I am betting that it isn't going to be Opel.

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    20 minutes ago, David said:

    Ya should be nicer when you talk about yourself! :P 

    Did mommy not hug you enough growing up in Oregon around all those 🐄

    :roflmao:

     

    I give ya a Hug, after all 🐮 are cute and deserve love too!

    🤗

    Nothing about that comment has anything to do with my childhood ya weirdo. I had a great childhood, how about you? Oh that's right you don't get a long with your parents like I do. So I guess it makes sense you'd go there. It must be the lack of oxygen up in Seattle with you and the stinky hippy anarchists you live around :roflmao:

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    40 minutes ago, David said:

    This auto is just :puke: Ugly to me. different in a bad sort of way. :puke:

    RIGHT........................................

    You must have forgotten that America has a terrible impression of Peugeot. If you think he can make bank selling that label here in the US, I have Beach Front Property in Arizona to sell you next to the Grand Canyon! :) 

    I think he has a better chance with Peugeot than Opel or Citroen, and Chrysler and Fiat are dead weight that are only kept around out of nostalgia of the owners of Fiat-Chrysler, but FCA as a company is gone and Carlos has no nostalgia for them.   If you read up on Tavares, he has a no private jets rule, he personally travels economy class on planes and trains, this guy is a cost cutter extraordinaire, and he doesn't care about volume, only cares about profitability and making money.  GM could never make money on Opel, he made money on it in 18 months.   This guy will be aggressive, slash through the dead weight and push Peugeot and DS where he makes margin.  

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    17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I think he has a better chance with Peugeot than Opel or Citroen, and Chrysler and Fiat are dead weight that are only kept around out of nostalgia of the owners of Fiat-Chrysler, but FCA as a company is gone and Carlos has no nostalgia for them.   If you read up on Tavares, he has a no private jets rule, he personally travels economy class on planes and trains, this guy is a cost cutter extraordinaire, and he doesn't care about volume, only cares about profitability and making money.  GM could never make money on Opel, he made money on it in 18 months.   This guy will be aggressive, slash through the dead weight and push Peugeot and DS where he makes margin.  

    First off Carlos is GONE and in hiding in a 3rd world country if he did not get blown up by the port explosion that killed so many innocent people.

    As far as name brands, you have way too much faith in people thinking positive here of Peugeot and DS. Yes they make some interesting products and have had positive reviews in Europe. 

    That is Europe and they DO NOT have any marketing power here in the US like your Badge mobile Mercedes-Benz has. As such, Chrysler has more marketing creds with the van and 300 than trying to start from scratch and looking up the history of Peugeot and seeing how crappy they did.

    I would bet on Chrysler with rebadged Peugeot and DS auto's and an existing dealership than trying to close them down and rebuild new dealerships on P and DS.

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    50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Dodge, Chrysler and Fiat have negative images.

    Fiat unquestionably does, if it has any image at all.
    But Chrysler & Dodge have very good images- you're stuck in 1982 with that.
    Dodge also isn't "dead weight"- they moved 422K units in '19 withOUT Ram.

    Alfa is what's dead weight; 18K units sold, down almost 23% from 2018.
    Citroen & Peugeot are dead on arrival- lost in the crowd with nothing to pull buyers with and a negative image.

    Carlos can try and bring something here, but he had better understand the market before pushing billions anywhere or he's going to lose.

    Edited by balthazar
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    I can envision the yellow car with a Dodge face and the daytime running lights being the slashes in the paint on the current cars. Give it a heritage name and mod that 4 banger to the limit. After all it's a Dodge brotha😁

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    That yellow car would be nice as a Dodge Neon. With a modded 4 banger...Neon SRT4 has a nice familiar ring to it. 

    And if Stellantis wants an EV/Hybrid version for it, especially as a Dodge...Neon cant be any better for a name. 

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    6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.

    Chrysler 300 by itself outsold the entire 3-model Alfa lineup in 2019.

    Alfa as a brand was down 23% vs. 2018. Rumors are swirling it'll get yanked- can't survive on that kind of horrible volume.

    Right, smk?

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    12 hours ago, David said:

    First off Carlos is GONE and in hiding in a 3rd world country if he did not get blown up by the port explosion that killed so many innocent people.

    As far as name brands, you have way too much faith in people thinking positive here of Peugeot and DS. Yes they make some interesting products and have had positive reviews in Europe. 

    That is Europe and they DO NOT have any marketing power here in the US like your Badge mobile Mercedes-Benz has. As such, Chrysler has more marketing creds with the van and 300 than trying to start from scratch and looking up the history of Peugeot and seeing how crappy they did.

    I would bet on Chrysler with rebadged Peugeot and DS auto's and an existing dealership than trying to close them down and rebuild new dealerships on P and DS.

    Carlos Tavares, the man now in charge of Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler and Fiat.

    If he keeps Chrysler here they will be 100% badge swapped cars from the European stable and probably same for Dodge in time.

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    12 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Fiat unquestionably does, if it has any image at all.
    But Chrysler & Dodge have very good images- you're stuck in 1982 with that.
    Dodge also isn't "dead weight"- they moved 422K units in '19 withOUT Ram.

    Alfa is what's dead weight; 18K units sold, down almost 23% from 2018.
    Citroen & Peugeot are dead on arrival- lost in the crowd with nothing to pull buyers with and a negative image.

    Carlos can try and bring something here, but he had better understand the market before pushing billions anywhere or he's going to lose.

    Citroen and Peugeot outsell Dodge, and have better margin.  If Chrysler stays then they are getting straight badge jobs I image.

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    6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Citroen and Peugeot outsell Dodge, and have better margin.   

    In Europe, that is.  Their products wouldn't fit at Dodge...small FWD hatchbacks wouldn't work in the US.  Maybe some of the CUVs at Chrysler.  Dodge is all about RWD V8..

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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    In Europe, that is.  Their products wouldn't fit at Dodge...small FWD hatchbacks wouldn't work in the US.  Maybe some of the CUVs at Chrysler.  Dodge is all about RWD V8..

    And RWD V8 is dying fast.  I am a rear drive V8 fan, but the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    And RWD V8 is dying fast.  I am a rear drive V8 fan, but the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

    Barf....they already have that niche covered w/ the small Jeeps...does the US market need more generics?    The V8 RWD product is what makes Dodge stand out in a market full of fecal fwd/awd transverse engine despair gray interior generic appliances...Dodge doesn't need such chud...anyway, from the article, it sounds like the PSA stuff will be for the European market.   Maybe the next gen Renegade and Compass will be on a PSA platform? 

    Anyway, I do hope Stellantis finds a future for the Charger and Challenger and keeps them real...I'd hate to see those names and style wasted on appliances..

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    If he keeps Chrysler here they will be 100% badge swapped cars from the European stable and probably same for Dodge in time.

    What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure.
    There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    ...the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

    Except for the market that wants RWD V8s.
    EVERYTHING can't be a teeny 4-banger CUV.

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    ^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

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    32 minutes ago, David said:

    ^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

    They have a bunch of small to midsize crossovers that could probably sell here, though....similar to the generic stuff that GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, etc churn out en masse and Americans seem to have infinite appetite for.   But under what brand?  There was talk of bringing the Peugeot brand here.  It's been almost 30 years since it was sold here.   Launching a brand would be more $$$ and work than badge engineering....

    Since Dodge is down to 3 vehicles that draw on V8 performance as part of their brand image, I don't see any of them fitting in at Dodge.  Chrysler is pretty thin now, could use a couple more CUVs..and if they are purely soft roaders that would distinguish them from Jeep's rugged image.

    Edited by Robert Hall

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    2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    They have a bunch of small to midsize crossovers that could probably sell here, though....similar to the generic stuff GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, etc churn out en masse.   But what brand would it sell under? 

    I saw the mid size stuff, with the Durango, why bother with that stuff?

    Dodge already has the JD Power #1 mid size CUV. Would be better to take some of the Jeep full and compact size stuff and put Dodge inspired sheet metal on it.

    I honestly just do not see the P & C line selling here. Especially as we move towards EV's, we seem as a country to be saying Mid size and full size is what we want, not FWD Compact, Sub Compact or mini appliances. 

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    6 minutes ago, David said:

    I saw the mid size stuff, with the Durango, why bother with that stuff?

    Dodge already has the JD Power #1 mid size CUV. Would be better to take some of the Jeep full and compact size stuff and put Dodge inspired sheet metal on it.

    I honestly just do not see the P & C line selling here. Especially as we move towards EV's, we seem as a country to be saying Mid size and full size is what we want, not FWD Compact, Sub Compact or mini appliances. 

    This would be product aiming at a different buyer than the Durango...more at the buyers of soft roader chud that sells well--think of all the gray plastic interior Equinoxes, Blazers, Escapes, Santa Fes, Nissans, Terrains, Acadias, etc that sell...  I'm not a fan, but subcompact and compact CUVs are a huge market right now.  There is room to sell more and not badge them as Jeeps or Dodges.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure.
    There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

    The Rav4 by itself sells as much as the whole Dodge brand in the US.  There is plenty of market for front drive crossovers.  And PSA knows how to make money, they had over an 8% margin last year, most car companies are happy at 5%. 

    Dodge is still around with a stale lineup because the only way for the brand to be profitable is to sell vehicles that the tooling was paid off 5-10 years ago.  If they started pumping money into new product they'd be broke, which is why FCA was putting out so little new product recently.

    Any hopes of Dodge's rear drive future lie on the Georgio platform.

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    1 hour ago, David said:

    ^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

    I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

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    53 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

    Based on your logic, then you should be scared, very scared as they will come here and destroy what little Mercedes-Benz sells and force them to retreat to Germany.

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    So your logic smk is to kill any brand selling less than the Rav4??

     

     

    wow.

    No it isn't, I said they should kill Chrysler, and move the van to Dodge.  And add Peugeot to current FCA dealer network.  And they can drop Fiat in the USA.

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    Then what the hell was the point of comparing the rav4 sales to dodge??

    Edited by balthazar

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    Then what the hell was the point of comparing the rav4 sales to dodge??
     

    Last time I looked, btw, rav4 was around 300K and dodge was at 422K.

    I am just saying front drive crossovers are the #1 selling product type.  You could price a Porsche 911 at $30k and the Rav4 would still outsell it because most people don't want a sports car, they want a crossover to haul stuff, even if they don't haul stuff, and they think they need AWD for snow, even if they don't, and they want good gas mileage so they'll live with a 1.6 liter turbo to get it.

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    Yeah, but, that’s totally irrelevant to the discussion. It’s not even a point of contention.

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    Thoughts to some of this:

    No small small cars will be sold here in the US. I can tell you that now. Fiat is already dead, we saw that coming anyways...

    The old guard platform cars are not going anywhere- there are still updates and some new stuff down the pipeline. These 3 still have enough of a following to keep them for a good while. Besides, they are nearly retro cars anyways... 😉 . Ram of course will be fine. Jeep looks like it too may skip the small/ sub stuff as well. Sounds like the baby Jeep is in danger of being dropped, as Jeep wants to focus on their core products, and sell them all over the world. A few less models actually makes this easier, though they are adding the Jeep Wagoneer.....

    Alfa is a tough one. I like them, and they are getting kinda a Saab like following (know a few that have one-love it) so they should hang around at least a while to see where things go......

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    Of course, because it's an import brand, any examination of it's sales is irrelevant.

    Right, smk?

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    Personally, I think that Stellantis should (at least for a while) keep the 300/Charger/Challenger triplets.  As for CUVs and minivans, they can do what they like with the brands that exist.  Stellantis could easily rebagde SOME of their CUVs and FWD cars as Chryslers with probably little or no negative feedback.  Bring them as Cintroens: automatic fail.  Nobody here misses Renault since they left in 1988.  Tavares has a lot of work ahead of him in order to succeed here in the most competitive automotive marketplace on Earth.  NO one here will miss FIAT because their cars are terrible.

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    On 9/2/2020 at 11:27 AM, smk4565 said:

    Carlos Tavares, the man now in charge of Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler and Fiat.

     

    Same first name, different empty suit...worked under Ghosn previously...they should have an American that understands the NA market in charge of the NA brands, not some empty suit w/ a Renault/Nissan past. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    On 9/2/2020 at 5:55 PM, smk4565 said:

    I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

    Let me make this simple for you. Peugeot will die a cruel death just like Fiat if they try to peddle that mess here because like Fiat, most folks in the U.S. have not forgotten about the Peugeot dumpster fires of the 70s and the 80s. That is a stain that does not go away. Any attempt to put a Dodge or Chrysler skin on Peugeot guts will be the 100% death of Dodge and Chrysler, above all other scenarios. Regarding stale product, FCA had ample opportunities to invest in new products for Dodge and Chrysler and didn’t because they insisted on peddling their own Fiat and Alfa garbage to US buyers. How’d that work for them btw?

     

    Oh and please stop with the sales comparisons and such because all of that “logic” can easily be applied to Mercedes as well but shhhhhhh, we don’t talk about Benz like that do we?

    Edited by surreal1272
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    4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Let me make this simple for you. Peugeot will die a cruel death just like Fiat if they try to peddle that mess here because like Fiat, most folks in the U.S. have not forgotten about the Peugeot dumpster fires of the 70s and the 80s.

    Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.

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    2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.

    I’m under 50 (just barely lol) and I knew about them. Also, younger folks have parents were around for that And word of mouth is a powerful thing. It is what doomed Fiat from the start.

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    @smk4565 You seem to forget that Dodge and Chrysler have been very Profitable for FCA and yet instead of reinvesting in D&C, they took the money to keep Fiat afloat and attempt to peddle the Garbage Alfa back from the History books.

    If Stellantis wants to succeed in the US, then as has already been stated, they need an American who understands this market and start putting the Profits back into Dodge and Chrysler rather than prop up Garbage Fiat, Alfa, Maserati crap.

    image.png

    Here is a list of the names that the Chrysler company has gone through over the years.

    • Chrysler Corporation - 1925 to 1998
    • DaimlerChrysler - 1998 to 2007
    • Chrysler LLC - 2007 to 2009
    • Chrysler Group - 2009 to 2014
    • Fiat Chrysler Automobiles - 2014 to 2021
    • Stellantis - 2021 to 20XX

    Based on this article, here is the Stellantis product line.

    Alfa Romeo

    A legacy Italian sports car brand with roots in racing, Alfa Romeo has been struggling with declining U.S. sales.

    Giulia (2015): Alfa’s rear-wheel drive sports sedan competes against German luxury sedans in North America and Europe.

    4C (2013): The lightweight mid-engine rear-wheel-drive sports car is being phased out.

    Stelvio (2016): The Stelvio is a small luxury performance crossover that competes against the likes of the Porsche Macan and BMW X3 and is sold in both Europe and North America.

    Giulietta (2010): Sold in Europe, this compact hatchback is Alfa’s entry-level model. After initially planning a rear-wheel drive 2020 update, the Giulietta is reportedly being nixed as part of FCA’s latest product plans.

    Chrysler

    Despite lending its name to its parent company, questions abound about the future of this legendary but faded brand, which is not offered in Europe.

    300 (2011): Despite rumors of its pending demise, the four-door sedan lives on mostly unchanged for the 2020 model year, at least.

    Pacifica (2016): The successor to the Town & Country is Chrysler’s bestselling model by a long shot and comes in gas-only and plug-in hybrid versions.

    Voyager (2019): Chrysler’s newest minivan launches as its entry-level minivan for the 2020 model year. It’s essentially a rebadged version of lower trims of the Pacifica.

    Citroën

    Known for spectacular quirkiness, Citroën has survived several near-death experiences since its creation in 1919. It was rescued by Peugeot in 1976, and the two have operated as sister companies since. It's positioned a little bit lower than its sibling, but it's not a low-cost brand, either. 

    Berlingo (2018): Like the Peugeot Rifter it's mechanically identical to, the Berlingo is cheaper and more spacious than a comparably-sized crossover, so it caters to families with kids and a lot of gear to haul, as well as to adventurers looking for a daily driver that can effortlessly swallow mountain bikes and a long weekend's worth of camping gear. The tradeoff is that it largely looks and drives like the commercial vehicle it's based on.

    C-Zero (2010): The C-Zero is a badge-engineered Mitsubishi i-MiEV. We can't fathom how or why Citroën still sells it in 2019.

    C1 (2014): The smallest, most affordable member of the Citroën range isn't long for this world. Tightening safety and emissions regulations and thinning profit margins are poking holes in the cheap and the cheerful hatchback's business case.

    C3 (2016): Citroën made its bread-and-butter model more SUV-like to increase its appeal. The look isn't to everyone's tastes, but the C3 remains an excellent value for buyers seeking a cheap, basic and dependable commuter that rarely needs to stop for fuel.

    C3 Aircross (2017): The C3 Aircross took Citroën into the urban crossover segment for the first time. It looks a lot like a taller evolution of the C3 it shares its basic platform with, but it hasn't managed to match (let alone exceed) the popularity of the Renault Captur, one of its main rivals.

    C4 Cactus (2014): Believe it or not, the C4 Cactus (pictured) is Citroën's answer to the Volkswagen Golf. It started life as a crossover, but it became decidedly more car-like when the C4 hatchback retired without a direct successor in 2018. Citroën will allegedly axe the C4 Cactus and replace it with a true Golf-fighting model in the coming years.

    C4 Spacetourer (2013): The C4 Spacetourer was known as the C4 Picasso until 2018, when Citroën decided it no longer wanted to pay royalties to the painter's family. It's one of the last vestiges of Europe's vanishing minivan segment but its versatility is difficult to beat.

    C5 Aircross (2017): The C5 Aircross is built on the same bones as the Peugeot 5008, though the two crossovers look nothing alike. Autoblog understands it was developed largely for the Chinese market, but the rising popularity of high-riding models convinced executives to add it to the Citroën catalog in Europe to temporarily fill the gap left by the C5 sedan.

    E-Mehari (2016): This vaguely retro-styled interpretation of the original Mehari isn't a true Citroën; it's made by Bolloré, the French company that built the BlueCar deployed in Indianapolis as part of a car-sharing service. Expensive and eye-wateringly slow, the E-Mehari is the textbook definition of a niche model. Consider yourself lucky if you spot one in the wild.

    Dodge

    FCA’s other O.G. American nameplate plays in the U.S. markets for performance enthusiasts and family haulers, but its models are getting long in the tooth.

    Challenger (2008): FCA’s brawny two-door muscle car still sells in good numbers despite 11 years without a redesign. It plays in the same sandbox as the Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Camaro.

    Charger (2011): A large rear-wheel-drive performance sedan that shares a platform with the Chrysler 300 and is slightly smaller than the Challenger. It’s Dodge’s second best-selling model after the Caravan.

    Durango (2011): Dodge’s midsize three-row SUV shares a platform with the Jeep Grand Cherokee

    Grand Caravan (2007): FCA says the minivan will eventually go away, but it lives on for 2020, anyway, despite the advent of the similarly priced Chrysler Voyager

    Journey (2007): The midsize SUV offers three rows of seating and competes against the likes of the Hyundai Santa Fe and Kia Sorento. There's a redesign in the works and it could be made in Italy.

    DS

    PSA created DS in 2014 to take the fight directly to Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. That's easier said than done, and DS-badged cars still don't feel quite as nice as their German rivals. The brand risks overlapping with Alfa Romeo once PSA and FCA shack up.

    DS 3 Crossback (2018): Essentially a nicer evolution of the Peugeot 2008, the DS 3 Crossback perfectly illustrates the ongoing shift in the new car market. It's a four-door crossover developed to replace a two-door hatchback. It's built on PSA's modular platform, the one that will underpin numerous FCA products in the 2020s, and buyers can select an electric powertrain.

    DS 7 Crossback (2017): The DS 7 Crossback (pictured) suffers from a bland design that's a little too Audi-esque, and the firm's lack of image has hampered its career in Europe's German-dominated luxury car segment. The best place to see one in the wild is at the Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, where Air France uses the model as a VIP shuttle.

    Fiat

    The Italian brand has a rich history, but its small cars haven’t made much of an impression on American car buyers.

    124 Spider (2015): A two-door convertible roadster for the U.S. that shares a platform with the Mazda Miata MX-5.

    500 (2007): Fiat’s most recognizable small car is being discontinued in the U.S., though it remains a hot seller in Europe.

    500X (2014): A small all-wheel-drive crossover sells far better in Europe than it does stateside. 

    500L (2012): The five-seat, four-door compact wagon hasn’t done much to distinguish itself from U.S. competitors like the Honda Fit or Kia Soul. Its sales in Europe are dropping, too. 

    Panda (2011): The third-generation Panda is Italy's best-seller by a comfortable margin, but Fiat strongly hinted the model won't be replaced when it announced plans to exit the minicar segment in the early 2020s. The shockingly capable 4x4 model (pictured) is extremely popular in Europe's mountainous regions, and credible rumors claim its underpinnings will serve as the foundation for an entry-level Jeep tentatively due out in the early 2020s.

    Tipo (2015): Fiat's bargain-priced answer to the Volkswagen Golf and the Ford Focus is available as a hatchback, a sedan and a station wagon. The Tipo is more commonly seen on airport rental car lots than in private driveways due largely to a lack of image.

    Qubo (2007): The Qubo is a compact, city-friendly van Fiat developed jointly with PSA well before either company began hammering out the details of a merger. Peugeot and Citroën stopped offering their variants of it in 2017, but Fiat still manufactures the model (which is also available as a panel van named Fiorino) as of 2019. It's the smallest van sold on the European market.

    Doblo (2010): Built in people- and cargo-hauling configurations, the Doblo van is relatively popular in Italy, but it's an also-ran elsewhere in Europe due in part to its age. Its rivals are considerably more modern. It's sold in the United States as the Ram ProMaster City.

    Jeep

    The off-road brand has its roots in U.S. Army vehicles and has become one of the most lucrative automotive brands on the planet. Revivals of the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer large SUVs are in the works.

    Cherokee (2013): The rugged midsize SUV is one of Jeep’s top-selling models in the U.S. and is also sold in Europe. 

    Compass (2016): Jeep’s compact SUV is the smallest of the look-alike trio that also includes the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. Also built in Melfi, Italy, including a PHEV version, and sold in more than 100 countries.

    Gladiator (2018): Essentially a Wrangler extended to become an off-road pickup truck with four doors, the Gladiator is in its first sales year in North America.

    Grand Cherokee (2009): Jeep’s best-selling model in the U.S. is also sold in Europe, where sales pale in comparison. 

    Renegade (2014): Jeep’s compact SUV is getting a plug-in hybrid version for Europe and North America in 2020. 

    Wrangler (2017): The boxy two- and four-door SUV with removable tops and doors is another hot-seller in the U.S that barely registers in Europe.

    Lancia

    Lancia once made some of the most innovative and luxurious cars on the planet; it notably designed the first mass-produced V6. Years of mismanagement and a long string of half-baked, badge-engineered models left it utterly battered. Former FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne wanted to close the brand, but where it stands in 2019 is a little bit murky because the name has a lot of equity in Italy.

    Ypsilon (2011): Now sold exclusively in Italy, Lancia's only remaining model is a four-door, upmarket-ish hatchback built on the same bones as the Fiat 500. It's old, and it's likely the last Lancia we'll ever see, but it outsold the entire Alfa Romeo brand in Italy during the first nine months of 2019.

    Maserati

    Part of Fiat since 2005, Maserati traces its founding to 1914 in Italy and today sells sports cars and luxury vehicles in more than 70 countries.

    Quattroporte (2013): The brand’s flagship is a full-size luxury sedan.

    Levante (2016): Maserati entered the crossover fray with its first SUV with a Ferrari-sourced V8, for now, powering its two highest trim models. It competes in North America and Europe against the Porsche Cayennes and BMW X6s of the world.

    Ghibli (2013): The sports sedan competes against four-door luxury cars like the Porsche Panamera and Audi A7.

    GranTurismo (2007): Maserati’s sports car is available as a coupe and convertible, and though the brand has dangled it above the scrap heap, the latest indication is that it will see a new generation in 2021. 

    Opel/Vauxhall

    Opel is Germany's other people's car brand. It was gradually twinned with England-based Vauxhall during the 1970s, and their products have been identical with the exception of the badge on the grille ever since. Vauxhall is only present in the United Kingdom; Opel is more global. PSA purchased both automakers from General Motors in 2017, and performed a spectacular turnaround that brought them back to profitability in record time.

    Astra (2015): The Astra has rarely been an exciting car, and the current-generation model is absolutely no exception. It's overshadowed by French and German rivals; European sales fell by 27% in 2018, putting it in the 21st spot on the sales chart.

    Combo Life (2018): The Combo Life is the Opel/Vauxhall version of the Citroën Berlingo and the Peugeot Rifter. All three vans are identical under the sheet metal, and they overlap in many markets, but automotive jingoism runs strong in the segment, so the strategy makes sense. Germans would rather buy an Opel van than one with Peugeot badges.

    Corsa (2019): The current-generation Corsa (pictured) is built on the same platform as the Peugeot 208. It's far more interesting to look at than its predecessor, and it's available with an electric powertrain, so it's one of Opel's most promising models. The difference in design and technology between the Astra and the Corsa demonstrates how the brand evolved under Peugeot's ownership.

    Crossland X (2017): Closely related to the Citroën C3 Aircross, the Crossland X competes in a segment experiencing enormous growth, yet it hasn't been able to take full advantage of the market's shift towards high-riding models.

    Grandland X (2017): Opel's variant of the Peugeot 3008 does reasonably well in Germany and in the United Kingdom, its home countries. It's not nearly as popular as its French rival on the European scene, however. 

    Insignia (2017): If the Insignia looks familiar, it's likely because it's sold as the Buick Regal in the United States. It's a competent car, but it's positioned in a segment of the market that's free-falling, and its future doesn't look markedly brighter than the Regal's.

    Peugeot

    Peugeot began making cars in 1896, though it was founded in 1810 and spent most of the 19th century making bicycles, pepper mills and hand tools, among other products. It described itself as being "between the Bugs and the Benz" in the 1970s, but in 2019 it's on about the same level as Volkswagen. Its image and cars improved exponentially during the 2010s.

    108 (2014): Peugeot's entry-level model is twinned with the Citroën C1 and the Toyota Aygo. PSA strongly hinted it will leave the minicar segment in the coming years, so the 108 is on its way out without a replacement in sight. Toyota remains committed to it, however.

    208 (2019): The modular architecture found under the second-generation 208 (pictured) helped PSA seal the merger with FCA. It's modern, well-designed, and multi-energy, which allows Peugeot to offer gasoline-, diesel- and electricity-powered variants of the hatchback. The 208 is one of Europe's best-selling models, and we expect the overhaul will move it up on the sales chart.

    2008 (2019): The second-generation 2008 is a strong entry into one of the most competitive segments of the European market. Positioned at the bottom of Peugeot's crossover range, it's built on the same platform as the 208, and it's available with an electric powertrain.  

    308 (2013): The 308 is one of Peugeot's oldest cars, and it deserves a lot of credit for helping launch the brand's turnaround, but it has never managed to give the Volkswagen Golf a run for its money. In Europe, Peugeot sold 155,925 units of the 308 in 2018, a number that put the model in 24th place. The aging seventh-generation Golf led the market with 445,754 sales. 

    3008 (2016): The second-generation 3008 was the first model released after Carlos Tavares took PSA's reigns, and it was the right car at the right time. It became one of the 10 best-selling cars in France a few short months after deliveries began. It remains one of the brand's most popular models; it was the 14th best-seller in Europe in 2018, and the third best-seller in France.

    508 (2018): Peugeot defiantly argued there's still a strong case to be made for large sedans when it redesigned the 508. Also available as a station wagon, it's characterized by a sharp, head-turning design and user-friendly in-car technology. 

    5008 (2016): Peugeot's answer to the Toyota RAV4 and the Volkswagen Tiguan is better-tailored to the American market than any of the company's other models. It's a stretched variant of the 3008 with seven seats, though we wouldn't recommend trying to shoehorn adults in the third row.

    Rifter (2018): The Rifter is the passenger-carrying variant of the Partner; think of it as France's answer to the Ford Transit Connect. The segment it competes in was huge during the 2000s but buyers gradually left as they caught crossover fever. It nonetheless appeals to a small but loyal group of motorists who value practicality more than they care about style.

    Ram

    Formerly the nameplate of a Dodge truck, Ram was spun off as its own truck brand in 2009. Along with Jeep, it’s one of Fiat Chrysler’s cash cows, a volume and profits generator. Former CEO Sergio Marchionne even discussed the possibility of spinning it and Jeep off into their own companies.

    1500 (2018): A rugged full-size pickup beloved by many truck enthusiasts that competes with the Ford F-150 and Chevrolet Silverado for U.S. truck primacy. The last-generation model is still available and is called the 1500 Classic.

    2500/3500 (2019): Heavy-duty trucks.

    ProMaster (2006): Ram’s work van, available in many configurations.

    ProMaster City (2010): See Fiat Doblo.

    https://www.autoblog.com/2019/12/20/fiat-chrysler-psa-merger-makes-models-list/

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    That is too many cars.  And FCA had good profit margin in 2019 mainly due to them putting so little money into new product the past couple years.  The Ram 1500 and Wrangler are the only 2 new precuts of the past 2 years.  

    Some of their products have gone 10 years without a major update.  And i am sure that was by design to cut costs everywhere possible the last few years to make the company look profitable and good for sale.  

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    12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    That is too many cars.  And FCA had good profit margin in 2019 mainly due to them putting so little money into new product the past couple years.  The Ram 1500 and Wrangler are the only 2 new precuts of the past 2 years.  

    Some of their products have gone 10 years without a major update.  And i am sure that was by design to cut costs everywhere possible the last few years to make the company look profitable and good for sale.  

    Wrong, you are so WRONG! There has been complete engineering changes to a wide variety of the product line. The original MB platform COULD NOT handle the Demon or Hellcat. This required complete new engineering suspension, frame, etc. Major profits came from the American Name plates that supported keeping the Euro trash alive. 

    If they do a proper accounting review, they will see the need to kill Fiat here and maybe else where. Only where places have strong Fiat sales will it survive. Same with other name plates.

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    Wrong, you are so WRONG! There has been complete engineering changes to a wide variety of the product line. The original MB platform COULD NOT handle the Demon or Hellcat. This required complete new engineering suspension, frame, etc. Major profits came from the American Name plates that supported keeping the Euro trash alive. 

    If they do a proper accounting review, they will see the need to kill Fiat here and maybe else where. Only where places have strong Fiat sales will it survive. Same with other name plates.

    A proper review will end all the chaff in Stellantis.  This new firm makes GM look a whole lot like Honda.  My only question: what will be sacrificed for maximum profits and cash flow?

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    Wrong, you are so WRONG! There has been complete engineering changes to a wide variety of the product line. The original MB platform COULD NOT handle the Demon or Hellcat. This required complete new engineering suspension, frame, etc. Major profits came from the American Name plates that supported keeping the Euro trash alive. 

    If they do a proper accounting review, they will see the need to kill Fiat here and maybe else where. Only where places have strong Fiat sales will it survive. Same with other name plates.

    Gran Cherokee's last major redesign was 2011, Charger and 300 have had one refresh since 2005.  The Dodge Journey is over 10 years old and has a 4-speed automatic in the base trim, or at least it did a year ago.  The Pentastar V6 is from 2011 the 5.7 Hemi is over 10 years old, etc.  

    And I would imagine the Mercedes W210 platform could not handle the Hellcat, since the most powerful E-class in the 90s was like 355 hp, and I would hope 25 years later they have modified the platform.  But why not make a new one?  Why is the Grand Cherokee still on a Daimler-Chrysler era platform, that merger ended 12 years ago.   The Alfa Romeo Georgio platform will underpin any future rear drive Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep, Alfa may lose money but without them, they wouldn't have a platform for the Grand Cherokee, or a mid 2020s Charger.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Stellantis drops Fiat everywhere, but I think they will keep them in Italy, eastern Europe and South America where they need cheap cars, and the Fiats will be a badge job of an Opel or lower end Peugeot.  

     

    And the big thing PSA had was a head start in electric.  The future is electric and self driving, and FCA was way behind the competition.

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    24 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    A proper review will end all the chaff in Stellantis.  This new firm makes GM look a whole lot like Honda.  My only question: what will be sacrificed for maximum profits and cash flow?

    Brands that have low volume and are not high margin.  Although part of the cost savings is Stellantis can make three 4-cylinder engines in 1.3, 1.6 and 2.0 liter trims, and one 3 liter V6, along with 1 front drive transmission and 1 rear drive transmission.  And with 4 engines and 2 transmissions they can source every Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Chrysler, Dodge, Alfa, Jeep, etc.  They can do the same mechanicals on all these cars and just put a different front clip on them, although that didn't work for GM.

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    Of course that did not work for GM.  Market share shrank by one percentage point for four decades from 1968 to 2008. 

    "Make it cheaper, make it common"  arguably ruined GM and all the brands underneath.  That is why Oldsmobile and Pontiac are dead.  If it wasn't for China, Buick would have died too.  There simply is no way that Stellantis can pull this off without ending half their brands within three years.  The question is simply: which brands will wither and die?

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    On 9/4/2020 at 8:41 AM, Robert Hall said:

    Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.

    As an 80's kid born in the mid 70's witnessing the sh!tbox wagons on the road with faded or peeling paint with the diesel engine belching clouds of black soot into the air...yeah I remember the French cars that were once sold here...told myself and my buddies that's one car I would never own.

     

    The gutless, rust bucket '85 505 GL diesel with 95 hp and 150 lb.-ft. is Peugeot's image to most Americans' who were around here when they were...good luck Groupe PSA.

     

    The World's Greatest Wagons: Peugeot 203, 403, 404, 504, 505 – An  Illustrated History | Curbside Classic

    peugeot-505-gl-04.jpg

    Auto Auction Ended on VIN: VF3CF3277MS431281 1991 Peugeot 505 Sw8 in NV -  Reno

     

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    Some might call them 'soulless generic bland disposable appliances', but I'm not sure they were ever that good.

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      Press Release is on Page 2


      STELLANTIS: The Name of the New Group Resulting From the Merger of FCA and Groupe PSA
      July 15, 2020 , Vélizy-Villacoublay, France and London - In a major step as they move toward the completion of their 50:50 merger as defined in the Combination Agreement announced on December 18, 2019, Peugeot S.A. ("Groupe PSA") and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. ("FCA") (NYSE: FCAU / MTA: FCA) today announce that the corporate name of the new group will be STELLANTIS.
      STELLANTIS is rooted in the Latin verb “stello” meaning “to brighten with stars.” It draws inspiration from this new and ambitious alignment of storied automotive brands and strong company cultures that in coming together are creating one of the new leaders in the next era of mobility while at the same time preserving all the exceptional value and the values of its constituent parts. STELLANTIS will combine the scale of a truly global business with an exceptional breadth and depth of talent, knowhow and resource capable of providing the sustainable mobility solutions for the coming decades. The name’s Latin origins pay tribute to the rich history of its founding companies while the evocation of astronomy captures the true spirit of optimism, energy and renewal driving this industry-changing merger.
      The process of identifying the new name began soon after the Combination Agreement was announced and the senior management of both companies have been closely involved throughout, supported by Publicis Group.
      The STELLANTIS name will be used exclusively at the Group level, as a Corporate brand. The next step in the process will be the unveiling of a logo that with the name will become the corporate brand identity. The names and the logos of the STELLANTIS Group’s constituent brands will remain unchanged.
      As previously stated, completion of the merger project is expected to occur in the first quarter of 2021, subject to customary closing conditions, including approval by both companies’ shareholders at their respective Extraordinary General Meetings and the satisfaction of antitrust and other regulatory requirements.
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Fiat Chrysler is bringing a slew of concepts to the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas that all feature some sort of electrification.
      The centerpiece of their display will be the 2020 Airflow Vision concept.  While not specifically branded as a Chrysler, the Airflow Vision does take the name of a full-size Chrysler model produced from 1934 - 1937.  FCA calls it a "sculptural design concept" that envisions the next generation of premium transportation.  The interior user experience is designed to be captivating. FCA put a lot of work into showing a sophisticated appearance that can be personalized and customized to individual needs. 
      The cabin offers multiple interfaces, one behind the steering wheel, two on the center console, one for the front passenger, and two more for the rear passengers. Information can be shared between the screens by swiping.  The interior is said to be the same size as the Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in and has a flat load floor. In spite of all that room, it only has 4 seats set up in a lounge chair fashion to maximize legroom, shoulder room, and storage space for each passenger. Premium suedes and leathers, along with ambient lighting make the ride a first-class experience. 
      The exterior of the Airflow Vision has an aggressive stance with bodywork reaching almost to the ground. The wheels hint at the use of electric motors, but no powertrain information was provided.



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