FCA's Upcoming Small Cars To Switch To PSA Group Architecture

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.

I’m under 50 (just barely lol) and I knew about them. Also, younger folks have parents were around for that And word of mouth is a powerful thing. It is what doomed Fiat from the start.

@smk4565 You seem to forget that Dodge and Chrysler have been very Profitable for FCA and yet instead of reinvesting in D&C, they took the money to keep Fiat afloat and attempt to peddle the Garbage Alfa back from the History books.

If Stellantis wants to succeed in the US, then as has already been stated, they need an American who understands this market and start putting the Profits back into Dodge and Chrysler rather than prop up Garbage Fiat, Alfa, Maserati crap.

Here is a list of the names that the Chrysler company has gone through over the years.

• Chrysler Corporation - 1925 to 1998
• DaimlerChrysler - 1998 to 2007
• Chrysler LLC - 2007 to 2009
• Chrysler Group - 2009 to 2014
• Fiat Chrysler Automobiles - 2014 to 2021
• Stellantis - 2021 to 20XX

Based on this article, here is the Stellantis product line.

Alfa Romeo

A legacy Italian sports car brand with roots in racing, Alfa Romeo has been struggling with declining U.S. sales.

Giulia (2015): Alfa’s rear-wheel drive sports sedan competes against German luxury sedans in North America and Europe.

4C (2013): The lightweight mid-engine rear-wheel-drive sports car is being phased out.

Stelvio (2016): The Stelvio is a small luxury performance crossover that competes against the likes of the Porsche Macan and BMW X3 and is sold in both Europe and North America.

Giulietta (2010): Sold in Europe, this compact hatchback is Alfa’s entry-level model. After initially planning a rear-wheel drive 2020 update, the Giulietta is reportedly being nixed as part of FCA’s latest product plans.

Chrysler

Despite lending its name to its parent company, questions abound about the future of this legendary but faded brand, which is not offered in Europe.

300 (2011): Despite rumors of its pending demise, the four-door sedan lives on mostly unchanged for the 2020 model year, at least.

Pacifica (2016): The successor to the Town & Country is Chrysler’s bestselling model by a long shot and comes in gas-only and plug-in hybrid versions.

Voyager (2019): Chrysler’s newest minivan launches as its entry-level minivan for the 2020 model year. It’s essentially a rebadged version of lower trims of the Pacifica.

Citroën

Known for spectacular quirkiness, Citroën has survived several near-death experiences since its creation in 1919. It was rescued by Peugeot in 1976, and the two have operated as sister companies since. It's positioned a little bit lower than its sibling, but it's not a low-cost brand, either. 

Berlingo (2018): Like the Peugeot Rifter it's mechanically identical to, the Berlingo is cheaper and more spacious than a comparably-sized crossover, so it caters to families with kids and a lot of gear to haul, as well as to adventurers looking for a daily driver that can effortlessly swallow mountain bikes and a long weekend's worth of camping gear. The tradeoff is that it largely looks and drives like the commercial vehicle it's based on.

C-Zero (2010): The C-Zero is a badge-engineered Mitsubishi i-MiEV. We can't fathom how or why Citroën still sells it in 2019.

C1 (2014): The smallest, most affordable member of the Citroën range isn't long for this world. Tightening safety and emissions regulations and thinning profit margins are poking holes in the cheap and the cheerful hatchback's business case.

C3 (2016): Citroën made its bread-and-butter model more SUV-like to increase its appeal. The look isn't to everyone's tastes, but the C3 remains an excellent value for buyers seeking a cheap, basic and dependable commuter that rarely needs to stop for fuel.

C3 Aircross (2017): The C3 Aircross took Citroën into the urban crossover segment for the first time. It looks a lot like a taller evolution of the C3 it shares its basic platform with, but it hasn't managed to match (let alone exceed) the popularity of the Renault Captur, one of its main rivals.

C4 Cactus (2014): Believe it or not, the C4 Cactus (pictured) is Citroën's answer to the Volkswagen Golf. It started life as a crossover, but it became decidedly more car-like when the C4 hatchback retired without a direct successor in 2018. Citroën will allegedly axe the C4 Cactus and replace it with a true Golf-fighting model in the coming years.

C4 Spacetourer (2013): The C4 Spacetourer was known as the C4 Picasso until 2018, when Citroën decided it no longer wanted to pay royalties to the painter's family. It's one of the last vestiges of Europe's vanishing minivan segment but its versatility is difficult to beat.

C5 Aircross (2017): The C5 Aircross is built on the same bones as the Peugeot 5008, though the two crossovers look nothing alike. Autoblog understands it was developed largely for the Chinese market, but the rising popularity of high-riding models convinced executives to add it to the Citroën catalog in Europe to temporarily fill the gap left by the C5 sedan.

E-Mehari (2016): This vaguely retro-styled interpretation of the original Mehari isn't a true Citroën; it's made by Bolloré, the French company that built the BlueCar deployed in Indianapolis as part of a car-sharing service. Expensive and eye-wateringly slow, the E-Mehari is the textbook definition of a niche model. Consider yourself lucky if you spot one in the wild.

Dodge

FCA’s other O.G. American nameplate plays in the U.S. markets for performance enthusiasts and family haulers, but its models are getting long in the tooth.

Challenger (2008): FCA’s brawny two-door muscle car still sells in good numbers despite 11 years without a redesign. It plays in the same sandbox as the Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Camaro.

Charger (2011): A large rear-wheel-drive performance sedan that shares a platform with the Chrysler 300 and is slightly smaller than the Challenger. It’s Dodge’s second best-selling model after the Caravan.

Durango (2011): Dodge’s midsize three-row SUV shares a platform with the Jeep Grand Cherokee. 

Grand Caravan (2007): FCA says the minivan will eventually go away, but it lives on for 2020, anyway, despite the advent of the similarly priced Chrysler Voyager. 

Journey (2007): The midsize SUV offers three rows of seating and competes against the likes of the Hyundai Santa Fe and Kia Sorento. There's a redesign in the works and it could be made in Italy.

DS

PSA created DS in 2014 to take the fight directly to Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. That's easier said than done, and DS-badged cars still don't feel quite as nice as their German rivals. The brand risks overlapping with Alfa Romeo once PSA and FCA shack up.

DS 3 Crossback (2018): Essentially a nicer evolution of the Peugeot 2008, the DS 3 Crossback perfectly illustrates the ongoing shift in the new car market. It's a four-door crossover developed to replace a two-door hatchback. It's built on PSA's modular platform, the one that will underpin numerous FCA products in the 2020s, and buyers can select an electric powertrain.

DS 7 Crossback (2017): The DS 7 Crossback (pictured) suffers from a bland design that's a little too Audi-esque, and the firm's lack of image has hampered its career in Europe's German-dominated luxury car segment. The best place to see one in the wild is at the Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, where Air France uses the model as a VIP shuttle.

Fiat

The Italian brand has a rich history, but its small cars haven’t made much of an impression on American car buyers.

124 Spider (2015): A two-door convertible roadster for the U.S. that shares a platform with the Mazda Miata MX-5.

500 (2007): Fiat’s most recognizable small car is being discontinued in the U.S., though it remains a hot seller in Europe.

500X (2014): A small all-wheel-drive crossover sells far better in Europe than it does stateside. 

500L (2012): The five-seat, four-door compact wagon hasn’t done much to distinguish itself from U.S. competitors like the Honda Fit or Kia Soul. Its sales in Europe are dropping, too. 

Panda (2011): The third-generation Panda is Italy's best-seller by a comfortable margin, but Fiat strongly hinted the model won't be replaced when it announced plans to exit the minicar segment in the early 2020s. The shockingly capable 4x4 model (pictured) is extremely popular in Europe's mountainous regions, and credible rumors claim its underpinnings will serve as the foundation for an entry-level Jeep tentatively due out in the early 2020s.

Tipo (2015): Fiat's bargain-priced answer to the Volkswagen Golf and the Ford Focus is available as a hatchback, a sedan and a station wagon. The Tipo is more commonly seen on airport rental car lots than in private driveways due largely to a lack of image.

Qubo (2007): The Qubo is a compact, city-friendly van Fiat developed jointly with PSA well before either company began hammering out the details of a merger. Peugeot and Citroën stopped offering their variants of it in 2017, but Fiat still manufactures the model (which is also available as a panel van named Fiorino) as of 2019. It's the smallest van sold on the European market.

Doblo (2010): Built in people- and cargo-hauling configurations, the Doblo van is relatively popular in Italy, but it's an also-ran elsewhere in Europe due in part to its age. Its rivals are considerably more modern. It's sold in the United States as the Ram ProMaster City.

Jeep

The off-road brand has its roots in U.S. Army vehicles and has become one of the most lucrative automotive brands on the planet. Revivals of the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer large SUVs are in the works.

Cherokee (2013): The rugged midsize SUV is one of Jeep’s top-selling models in the U.S. and is also sold in Europe. 

Compass (2016): Jeep’s compact SUV is the smallest of the look-alike trio that also includes the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. Also built in Melfi, Italy, including a PHEV version, and sold in more than 100 countries.

Gladiator (2018): Essentially a Wrangler extended to become an off-road pickup truck with four doors, the Gladiator is in its first sales year in North America.

Grand Cherokee (2009): Jeep’s best-selling model in the U.S. is also sold in Europe, where sales pale in comparison. 

Renegade (2014): Jeep’s compact SUV is getting a plug-in hybrid version for Europe and North America in 2020. 

Wrangler (2017): The boxy two- and four-door SUV with removable tops and doors is another hot-seller in the U.S that barely registers in Europe.

Lancia

Lancia once made some of the most innovative and luxurious cars on the planet; it notably designed the first mass-produced V6. Years of mismanagement and a long string of half-baked, badge-engineered models left it utterly battered. Former FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne wanted to close the brand, but where it stands in 2019 is a little bit murky because the name has a lot of equity in Italy.

Ypsilon (2011): Now sold exclusively in Italy, Lancia's only remaining model is a four-door, upmarket-ish hatchback built on the same bones as the Fiat 500. It's old, and it's likely the last Lancia we'll ever see, but it outsold the entire Alfa Romeo brand in Italy during the first nine months of 2019.

Maserati

Part of Fiat since 2005, Maserati traces its founding to 1914 in Italy and today sells sports cars and luxury vehicles in more than 70 countries.

Quattroporte (2013): The brand’s flagship is a full-size luxury sedan.

Levante (2016): Maserati entered the crossover fray with its first SUV with a Ferrari-sourced V8, for now, powering its two highest trim models. It competes in North America and Europe against the Porsche Cayennes and BMW X6s of the world.

Ghibli (2013): The sports sedan competes against four-door luxury cars like the Porsche Panamera and Audi A7.

GranTurismo (2007): Maserati’s sports car is available as a coupe and convertible, and though the brand has dangled it above the scrap heap, the latest indication is that it will see a new generation in 2021. 

Opel/Vauxhall

Opel is Germany's other people's car brand. It was gradually twinned with England-based Vauxhall during the 1970s, and their products have been identical with the exception of the badge on the grille ever since. Vauxhall is only present in the United Kingdom; Opel is more global. PSA purchased both automakers from General Motors in 2017, and performed a spectacular turnaround that brought them back to profitability in record time.

Astra (2015): The Astra has rarely been an exciting car, and the current-generation model is absolutely no exception. It's overshadowed by French and German rivals; European sales fell by 27% in 2018, putting it in the 21st spot on the sales chart.

Combo Life (2018): The Combo Life is the Opel/Vauxhall version of the Citroën Berlingo and the Peugeot Rifter. All three vans are identical under the sheet metal, and they overlap in many markets, but automotive jingoism runs strong in the segment, so the strategy makes sense. Germans would rather buy an Opel van than one with Peugeot badges.

Corsa (2019): The current-generation Corsa (pictured) is built on the same platform as the Peugeot 208. It's far more interesting to look at than its predecessor, and it's available with an electric powertrain, so it's one of Opel's most promising models. The difference in design and technology between the Astra and the Corsa demonstrates how the brand evolved under Peugeot's ownership.

Crossland X (2017): Closely related to the Citroën C3 Aircross, the Crossland X competes in a segment experiencing enormous growth, yet it hasn't been able to take full advantage of the market's shift towards high-riding models.

Grandland X (2017): Opel's variant of the Peugeot 3008 does reasonably well in Germany and in the United Kingdom, its home countries. It's not nearly as popular as its French rival on the European scene, however. 

Insignia (2017): If the Insignia looks familiar, it's likely because it's sold as the Buick Regal in the United States. It's a competent car, but it's positioned in a segment of the market that's free-falling, and its future doesn't look markedly brighter than the Regal's.

Peugeot

Peugeot began making cars in 1896, though it was founded in 1810 and spent most of the 19th century making bicycles, pepper mills and hand tools, among other products. It described itself as being "between the Bugs and the Benz" in the 1970s, but in 2019 it's on about the same level as Volkswagen. Its image and cars improved exponentially during the 2010s.

108 (2014): Peugeot's entry-level model is twinned with the Citroën C1 and the Toyota Aygo. PSA strongly hinted it will leave the minicar segment in the coming years, so the 108 is on its way out without a replacement in sight. Toyota remains committed to it, however.

208 (2019): The modular architecture found under the second-generation 208 (pictured) helped PSA seal the merger with FCA. It's modern, well-designed, and multi-energy, which allows Peugeot to offer gasoline-, diesel- and electricity-powered variants of the hatchback. The 208 is one of Europe's best-selling models, and we expect the overhaul will move it up on the sales chart.

2008 (2019): The second-generation 2008 is a strong entry into one of the most competitive segments of the European market. Positioned at the bottom of Peugeot's crossover range, it's built on the same platform as the 208, and it's available with an electric powertrain.  

308 (2013): The 308 is one of Peugeot's oldest cars, and it deserves a lot of credit for helping launch the brand's turnaround, but it has never managed to give the Volkswagen Golf a run for its money. In Europe, Peugeot sold 155,925 units of the 308 in 2018, a number that put the model in 24th place. The aging seventh-generation Golf led the market with 445,754 sales. 

3008 (2016): The second-generation 3008 was the first model released after Carlos Tavares took PSA's reigns, and it was the right car at the right time. It became one of the 10 best-selling cars in France a few short months after deliveries began. It remains one of the brand's most popular models; it was the 14th best-seller in Europe in 2018, and the third best-seller in France.

508 (2018): Peugeot defiantly argued there's still a strong case to be made for large sedans when it redesigned the 508. Also available as a station wagon, it's characterized by a sharp, head-turning design and user-friendly in-car technology. 

5008 (2016): Peugeot's answer to the Toyota RAV4 and the Volkswagen Tiguan is better-tailored to the American market than any of the company's other models. It's a stretched variant of the 3008 with seven seats, though we wouldn't recommend trying to shoehorn adults in the third row.

Rifter (2018): The Rifter is the passenger-carrying variant of the Partner; think of it as France's answer to the Ford Transit Connect. The segment it competes in was huge during the 2000s but buyers gradually left as they caught crossover fever. It nonetheless appeals to a small but loyal group of motorists who value practicality more than they care about style.

Ram

Formerly the nameplate of a Dodge truck, Ram was spun off as its own truck brand in 2009. Along with Jeep, it’s one of Fiat Chrysler’s cash cows, a volume and profits generator. Former CEO Sergio Marchionne even discussed the possibility of spinning it and Jeep off into their own companies.

1500 (2018): A rugged full-size pickup beloved by many truck enthusiasts that competes with the Ford F-150 and Chevrolet Silverado for U.S. truck primacy. The last-generation model is still available and is called the 1500 Classic.

2500/3500 (2019): Heavy-duty trucks.

ProMaster (2006): Ram’s work van, available in many configurations.

ProMaster City (2010): See Fiat Doblo.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/12/20/fiat-chrysler-psa-merger-makes-models-list/

That is too many cars.  And FCA had good profit margin in 2019 mainly due to them putting so little money into new product the past couple years.  The Ram 1500 and Wrangler are the only 2 new precuts of the past 2 years.  

Some of their products have gone 10 years without a major update.  And i am sure that was by design to cut costs everywhere possible the last few years to make the company look profitable and good for sale.  

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

That is too many cars.  And FCA had good profit margin in 2019 mainly due to them putting so little money into new product the past couple years.  The Ram 1500 and Wrangler are the only 2 new precuts of the past 2 years.  

Some of their products have gone 10 years without a major update.  And i am sure that was by design to cut costs everywhere possible the last few years to make the company look profitable and good for sale.  

Wrong, you are so WRONG! There has been complete engineering changes to a wide variety of the product line. The original MB platform COULD NOT handle the Demon or Hellcat. This required complete new engineering suspension, frame, etc. Major profits came from the American Name plates that supported keeping the Euro trash alive. 

If they do a proper accounting review, they will see the need to kill Fiat here and maybe else where. Only where places have strong Fiat sales will it survive. Same with other name plates.

3 hours ago, David said:

Wrong, you are so WRONG! There has been complete engineering changes to a wide variety of the product line. The original MB platform COULD NOT handle the Demon or Hellcat. This required complete new engineering suspension, frame, etc. Major profits came from the American Name plates that supported keeping the Euro trash alive. 

If they do a proper accounting review, they will see the need to kill Fiat here and maybe else where. Only where places have strong Fiat sales will it survive. Same with other name plates.

A proper review will end all the chaff in Stellantis.  This new firm makes GM look a whole lot like Honda.  My only question: what will be sacrificed for maximum profits and cash flow?

3 hours ago, David said:

Wrong, you are so WRONG! There has been complete engineering changes to a wide variety of the product line. The original MB platform COULD NOT handle the Demon or Hellcat. This required complete new engineering suspension, frame, etc. Major profits came from the American Name plates that supported keeping the Euro trash alive. 

If they do a proper accounting review, they will see the need to kill Fiat here and maybe else where. Only where places have strong Fiat sales will it survive. Same with other name plates.

Gran Cherokee's last major redesign was 2011, Charger and 300 have had one refresh since 2005.  The Dodge Journey is over 10 years old and has a 4-speed automatic in the base trim, or at least it did a year ago.  The Pentastar V6 is from 2011 the 5.7 Hemi is over 10 years old, etc.  

And I would imagine the Mercedes W210 platform could not handle the Hellcat, since the most powerful E-class in the 90s was like 355 hp, and I would hope 25 years later they have modified the platform.  But why not make a new one?  Why is the Grand Cherokee still on a Daimler-Chrysler era platform, that merger ended 12 years ago.   The Alfa Romeo Georgio platform will underpin any future rear drive Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep, Alfa may lose money but without them, they wouldn't have a platform for the Grand Cherokee, or a mid 2020s Charger.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stellantis drops Fiat everywhere, but I think they will keep them in Italy, eastern Europe and South America where they need cheap cars, and the Fiats will be a badge job of an Opel or lower end Peugeot.  

And the big thing PSA had was a head start in electric.  The future is electric and self driving, and FCA was way behind the competition.

24 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

A proper review will end all the chaff in Stellantis.  This new firm makes GM look a whole lot like Honda.  My only question: what will be sacrificed for maximum profits and cash flow?

Brands that have low volume and are not high margin.  Although part of the cost savings is Stellantis can make three 4-cylinder engines in 1.3, 1.6 and 2.0 liter trims, and one 3 liter V6, along with 1 front drive transmission and 1 rear drive transmission.  And with 4 engines and 2 transmissions they can source every Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Chrysler, Dodge, Alfa, Jeep, etc.  They can do the same mechanicals on all these cars and just put a different front clip on them, although that didn't work for GM.

Of course that did not work for GM.  Market share shrank by one percentage point for four decades from 1968 to 2008. 

"Make it cheaper, make it common"  arguably ruined GM and all the brands underneath.  That is why Oldsmobile and Pontiac are dead.  If it wasn't for China, Buick would have died too.  There simply is no way that Stellantis can pull this off without ending half their brands within three years.  The question is simply: which brands will wither and die?

On 9/4/2020 at 8:41 AM, Robert Hall said:

Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.

As an 80's kid born in the mid 70's witnessing the sh!tbox wagons on the road with faded or peeling paint with the diesel engine belching clouds of black soot into the air...yeah I remember the French cars that were once sold here...told myself and my buddies that's one car I would never own.

The gutless, rust bucket '85 505 GL diesel with 95 hp and 150 lb.-ft. is Peugeot's image to most Americans' who were around here when they were...good luck Groupe PSA.

Some might call them 'soulless generic bland disposable appliances', but I'm not sure they were ever that good.