The present EPA staff has been an activist staff. They have pushed  a very green agenda with no regard to cost to the MFG and or the consumer. 

Their moved have even been un constitutional  at times. The Clean Air Act was written to exempt cars built with emission controls so they could be removed if they were used for off road use as in grassroots racing.

The present EPA had taken it upon them selves to reinterpreted the law passed by the Senate and House to day it really meant to cover the off road use too. This means if you own a 2005 Camaro and you only drag race it you would not be permitted to put in a Big Block engine and you would be required to run full emissions on the car even if it never turned a wheel more than a quarter mile or a lap at a time.

The RPM act is still floating out there and SEMA is working to make sure it gets passed to prevent appointed government agencies like the EPA from changing laws that were passed by a constitutional body.

Look for more games like this from the outgoing progressive appointed agencies. They know much of their work will be over turned and they will try to do anything to delay that.

This has been why so many are upset with the election results as with the loss of the house, senate and oval office they will lose much of what they have done in many areas and to the point they may not be able to undo much if and when they should get back into office.

A lot of people were watching the moves Obama did with his presidential decrees but the appointed agencies were all busy out of sight and mind changing the laws from how they were intended to suit their own needs. We at this point do not know all the damage done yet. 

Laws like these need to be passed buy the voting body not some appointed bureaucrat. No matter what side you are on you should never over step the constitution as it could be used against you too at some point. 

The EPA has backed off but SEMA does not trust them and is still working to pass the RPM act. If you enjoy motorsports or actively participate you need to be aware of this.  

Even Tim Ryan the Democrat from Ohio was against what the EPA was trying to do. He even dropped to my cubical one day at work. Too bad he did not displace Pelos.

The staff at the EPA is dirty and need to be watch till they are replaced.

I agree, coercion is the worst use of government/regulatory powers.

The miles per gallon metric is starting to cause some stupid comparison of vehicles.

Like EV's and gas vehicles. The mpg-e is just a weird way to conform the efficiency of EV's with gas cars to make them comparable. But that's not how EV efficiency should be measured. If EV's become big, and ICE vehicles become smaller, say even 20% EV, 80% gas, it will eventually cause FE between the two to become totally lopsided in the favour of the EV's.

Miles per kilowatt is a better measure of efficiency, because EV power density is measured in kilowatts, but that's not what they put on the moroney, they use mpg-e.

In so many ways it seems like we do the dumbest things possible. You have both made some good points, there is not enough face palm for the situation...!

they need to back off on this high CAFE and noose like emissions madness.  Take the hand off the throat for awhile and let the companies figure out how to make the newest stuff cheaper so the price of everything can not raise up so much. 

At the same time, i'd enjoy seeing the focus move to incentivizing Volt like powertrains (energy diversity).  The real mpg increases are going to become incremental pretty soon, but plugging in as a choice and option will spur a charge network and in home infrastructure development across all manufacturers and globally.  Pure electrics too, but i think reality is we are 20-30 years away from electrics becoming wide spread and convenient still. 

Of course GM has a leg up on pretty much everyone with electrics right now.  I don't count Tesla because they are not everyman's product.

6 hours ago, regfootball said:

they need to back off on this high CAFE and noose like emissions madness.  Take the hand off the throat for awhile and let the companies figure out how to make the newest stuff cheaper so the price of everything can not raise up so much. 

At the same time, i'd enjoy seeing the focus move to incentivizing Volt like powertrains (energy diversity).  The real mpg increases are going to become incremental pretty soon, but plugging in as a choice and option will spur a charge network and in home infrastructure development across all manufacturers and globally.  Pure electrics too, but i think reality is we are 20-30 years away from electrics becoming wide spread and convenient still. 

Of course GM has a leg up on pretty much everyone with electrics right now.  I don't count Tesla because they are not everyman's product.

Tesla is in deep crap financially, something people do not want to realize.

We need to  top trying to slut shame people into change, and bring them actual options.  As Wings said in the fast charger thread, people in America will buy electrics when they become a viable option.

If you really want to cut down on emissions, tax gas at $2-3 per gallon and people will flock to electric cars and out of 15 mpg trucks.  CAFE is a skewed number anyway, they can hit it with electrics and hybrids.  Car makers will still try to work cost out so they can sell cars.

There are cities in Europe talking about banning diesel cars from entering the city by 2025, countries saying by 2030 gas powered cars won't be allowed to be sold.  If Europe and china ban emission producing cars in 2030, there would be no reason for an American car company to even develop a gas engine when it can't be used in 2 of the largest car markets in the world.  They will put ever dollar into EV.

MB has over 20 models that get 16 or less city. If the diesels go and a towering gas tax kills off the 16 MPG gas vehicles, MB would lose 2/3rds of their vehicles.

On 12/1/2016 at 7:39 PM, Suaviloquent said:

Miles per kilowatt is a better measure of efficiency, because EV power density is measured in kilowatts, but that's not what they put on the moroney, they use mpg-e.

I totally agree with the Miles Per Kilowatt. I think that would be a much better standard. I fear that because most buyers have a hard time changing their thinking from Miles Per Gallon to Miles Per Kilowatt since they want an equivalent comparison.

EPA should have everything stated MPK on all EV systems and in the fine print say a MPK is equal to MPG formula. Let the consumer have the facts but this way it would then be able to phase out the comparison once we really make the switch over to EV everything.

Here is the deal. 

You can force higher refs but it will come at a high cost. Note no one is really making money on the new EV cars and they may not for g good deal longer.

Also you raise taxes you just make people mad and you slow the economy and fail to get elected.

The real deal is to get government and the automakers to work together. This was why I was glad Mary was asked to be an advisor. 

This is a two way street wher it is in the best interest of all parties to work together for the good of the country. 

The regulations should be brought up for review every so many years. This way it can be adjusted to real expectations and not destroy the automakers and still let people able to afford cars and own cars they really want to buy not forced to buy.

11 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

The regulations should be brought up for review every so many years. This way it can be adjusted to real expectations and not destroy the automakers and still let people able to afford cars and own cars they really want to buy not forced to buy.

Reviewing regulations is crucial, and will have implications beyond the auto industry.

There is such a thing as a proxy war...we are fighting a proxy war with Iran by arming the Saudi's to the teeth in their battle against the Yemeni Hoothi rebels, which are backed by Iran.

It feels like we are fighting a proxy war with the German auto industry via diesel gate.  The punishment is way out of line with the crime, and will be much more environmentally damaging to crush half a million cars.

You have an additional impact on our relations with Germany....

We had an interesting dialogue at a debate tournament I judged/Coached this last weekend...between students and coaches of very liberal and very conservative as well as libertarian viewpoints.  We all were of the view that were society to more closely follow the ideas of Adam Smith we would be much better off.

I think electrification is inevitable....but I am damn sure going to enjoy my ICE cars while they are around...and my electrics when they come.