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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Rumorpile: BMW Could Supply V8s to Jaguar Land Rover

      BMW's V8 + Jaguar Land Rover Vehicles = Possible Future

    Luxury automakers are finding it difficult to make the business case for building V8 engines. Stricter fuel economy and emission standards, along with sales of V8 powered models dropping have them wondering if they should continue work on developing new variants.

     

    Take for example Jaguar Land Rover. The current V8 in naturally-aspirated and Supercharged forms has been with us for 20 years. While the company has been trying its best to keep the engine up to date, the thirsty nature and possibility of it not meeting future emission standards has the future of V8 up in the air.

     

    But Automobile reports that a deal is currently being worked out by JLR and BMW for the German automaker to supply V8 engines to the British. The possible engine is a new 4.0L twin-turbo V8 that promises to be more powerful, fuel efficient, and lighter than the current V8s on offer from either automaker.

     

    Why is BMW making a possible deal with JLR? Most likely it comes down making a stronger business case as to why they should go forward with developing a new V8 engine.

     

    Source: Automobile

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    I suspect only a few auto makers will still be making V8 or V10 or V12 engines in the next 4 years. Everyone else will either buy their engine from these big bad boys or go to small turbo / variable supercharged engines or EV / Hybrids.

     

    The world be changing, :P

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    This touches on why I truly believe that GM should just stick with its LT series engines and kill the intro of the TTV8s it has upcoming

     

    But SMK says you have to have TTV8 to play in the luxury segment. You have to copy what the Germans do to be a true player. Without having the same engines as the Germans, you are not a true player.

     

    :deathwatch:

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    You need a twin turbo V12 to be a luxury/sports car maker of the highest level.  Turbo/super charged V8 to be in the luxury game.  However EV's are going to infiltrate that space, and then it will just be an argument of 500+ hp with no noise and that will be a new form of luxury.  After 2020, EV luxury is going to become more and more common.  

     

    I do think it makes sense Jaguar/LR and BMW team up on a V8.  Most Jaguars have a supercharged V6, only the R models have a V8 and they can't sell that many of those.  Likewise with Land Rover, pretty much just the Range Rover uses the V8, and that has a base V6 also.  Over at BMW you have the 7-series and M vehicles. Combined they probably produce less than 100,000 V8s worldwide per year and shrinking, so might as well co-develop one.  

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    This touches on why I truly believe that GM should just stick with its LT series engines and kill the intro of the TTV8s it has upcoming

    You could argue the Corvette better off with a twin turbo DOHC V8 though, and Cadillac could use one for sure.   If there is a mid-engine Corvette (which should be a mid-engine Cadillac supercar) a high revving DOHC unit would be better there too.  It is possible by 2025 the the Silverado, Sierra, Yukon, Suburban all have a V6 as their big engine, the Camaro SS will be a V6 by then, probably the only V8 Camaro will be a ZL1.  I don't think GM will have a V8 for sale for less than $60-70,000 come 2025.  CAFE just won't allow that.  So if they keep the LT series, it is for Corvette and big Cadillacs, plus it wouldn't parts share with their DOHC V6.  It probably makes more economic sense to have a 4 liter V8 sharing a block with the 2 liter 4 or 3 liter V6.  

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    (1)You need a twin turbo V12 to be a luxury/sports car maker of the highest level.  Turbo/super charged V8 to be in the luxury game.  (2)However EV's are going to infiltrate that space, and then it will just be an argument of 500+ hp with no noise and that will be a new form of luxury.  After 2020, EV luxury is going to become more and more common.  

     

     

    Your top statement simply is no longer true.. Ironically U prove me right with your second one. The new name of the game in luxury seems to be EV. I think this is obviously due to the smooth, quiet and clean characteristics of that tech vs the Combustible Engine. Until the range of those engines, not to mention infrastructure is capable of allowing for zilch range anxiety.. not to mention time wasted waiting for a charge.. Cadillac, via Voltec might be the best positioned to soldier onward into that battle. Voltech should be employed thru-out their line-up, but the EV proposition should be one of powerful and lagless capabilities. The Full system horsepower is 449HP and  5.4 seconds. to 60 is strong.. but going directly after Tesla's higher HP and 2.9 second runs wopuld kill any debate of a need for V12s which typically aren't utilized so much for speed, but smoothness. EV nullifies that need

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    This touches on why I truly believe that GM should just stick with its LT series engines and kill the intro of the TTV8s it has upcoming

    You could argue the Corvette better off with a twin turbo DOHC V8 though, and Cadillac could use one for sure.   If there is a mid-engine Corvette (which should be a mid-engine Cadillac supercar) a high revving DOHC unit would be better there too.  It is possible by 2025 the the Silverado, Sierra, Yukon, Suburban all have a V6 as their big engine, the Camaro SS will be a V6 by then, probably the only V8 Camaro will be a ZL1.  I don't think GM will have a V8 for sale for less than $60-70,000 come 2025.  CAFE just won't allow that.  So if they keep the LT series, it is for Corvette and big Cadillacs, plus it wouldn't parts share with their DOHC V6.  It probably makes more economic sense to have a 4 liter V8 sharing a block with the 2 liter 4 or 3 liter V6.  

     

     

     

     

    OK.. I can give U this for 2025, or 9 years away. But what I speak of is 2016.. RIGHT THE f@#k NOW.. when the entire Cadillac range would benefit from an engine that we all kno will not only fit in their cars, but have all the tech and capability of anything that Germany has to offer. 

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    Exotic cars have V12s, there will always be a place for that sound among the supercars. Luxo barges like Rolls and Bentley could easily go EV.

    The LT series V8 is good now, but I wouldn't put much money into developing a replacement for them since the next generation Silverado will probably have V6 power. A twin turbo V8 would be good for high end cars the next 10 years, then around 2025 maybe even Corvette is a electric car and that need for a V8 goes away.

    The Corvette engine could be useful in the CTS V-sport or CT6. I would like to Cadillac have its own V8, but since they don't have one better to use the Corvette engine than have no V8 at all.

    Edited by smk4565
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    There's still a 50 mpg target for CAFE.

     

     

    I just don't think anything beyond a V8 will even be viable AT ALL in passenger cars.

     

    I think Daimler will make a fully electric Mercedes-Maybach. They may even position it as a top trim, or do they combine Maybach and AMG sub models? Yeah, that one!!! That one!

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    There was talk from within Mercedes of an AMG hybrid around 2020, possibly every AMG model being a hybrid at some point.  There is also rumor of a 1,300 hp hybrid hyper car that weighs under 3,000 lbs under development, but Mercedes denies it.  AMG feels that their customers want a V8 and they want that noise, so I think that will have to stay in play there, but for the regular cars, I could see the plug-ins taking over by 2020.

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    Audi, Jaguar, and BMW all use the same transmission though.  I don't know if it matters to Jaguar buyers if the engine comes from BMW, there used to be a Range Rover with a BMW V8 in it in the early 2000s.  The exterior styling, interiors and infotainment systems are way different on a BMW and Jaguar.   If you want exclusive engine and transmission in a luxury car though, there is only one place to look.  

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    BMW consumers don't, but Jag can hardly afford to keep the lights on in dealerships across the U.S..

    Some early reports are really panning the F_Pace, saying it's not very compelling at its price/ has too much cheapness.

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    The F-Pace is priced on the low side, and it's kind of a tweener. Too big to be a GLC/X3 size but too small to be a GLE or X5 size.

     

    I've been around the new Jaguars a lot. To bring the price at a competitive point and provide the standard 5 years comprehensive warranty, I think they pulled quite a bit of money out of the interiors. Shame, they drive really astoundingly well, and are lightweight cars now.

     

    I have no issue with this, BMW engines are probably more reliable, and there's even some exotics like Pagani that delegate the engineering of their engines to someone else, and heck the Ford GT, also an exotic prestige carrier has a lot of work subcontracted out to MultiMatic.

     

    It's they only way. I recently heard that FordMoCo and Jaguar LandRover would cooperate over battery technology and suppliers.

     

     

    Marchionne wasn't wrong with his principles over why it was so necessary and beneficial when he begged for other automakers to help Fiat save some coin, expect the problem is no one wants Fiat to save some coin, because NO ONE WANTS FIAT!

     

    But Jaguar/LandRover are worth saving, I think. I hope they don't cheapen out the XJ. There's some rumours that the neXtJ...(get it? hurr hurr!!! I made a laugh) will be kinda like the Cadillac CT6, it'll be just like a LWB XF with some cosmetic changes and the same downmarket, unworthy of true flagship status interior. But that's just a rumour.

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    When it comes to performance pedigree in terms of raw numbers, the German car maker engines deliver, and are usually underrated.

     

    Now, we live in a world where an Indian automaker invests in its British heritage brand and is now about to seal the deal for collaboration with a German rival.

     

    GLOBALIZATION!!! TECHNOLOGY!

     

    10255695.jpg

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      Set against a canvas of true sustainability, Jaguar Land Rover will become a more agile creator of the world’s most desirable luxury vehicles and services for the most discerning of customers. A strategy that is designed to create a new benchmark in environmental, societal and community impact for a luxury business.
      “Jaguar Land Rover is unique in the global automotive industry. Designers of peerless models, an unrivalled understanding of the future luxury needs of its customers, emotionally rich brand equity, a spirit of Britishness and unrivalled access to leading global players in technology and sustainability within the wider Tata Group.
      “We are harnessing those ingredients today to reimagine the business, the two brands and the customer experience of tomorrow. The Reimagine strategy allows us to enhance and celebrate that uniqueness like never before. Together, we can design an even more sustainable and positive impact on the world around us,” said Mr Bolloré.
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      At the heart of its Reimagine plan will be the electrification of both Land Rover and Jaguar brands on separate architectures with two clear, unique personalities.
      In a Land Rover, vehicle and driver are united by adventure. By breaking new ground, confronting new challenges and not being content with the expected, Land Rover truly helps people to go ‘Above and Beyond’. In the next five years, Land Rover will welcome six pure electric variants as it continues to be the world leader of luxury SUVs through its three families of Range Rover, Discovery and Defender. The first all-electric variant will arrive in 2024.
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      Jaguar and Land Rover will offer pure electric power, nameplate by nameplate, by 2030. By this time, in addition to 100% of Jaguar sales, it is anticipated that around 60% of Land Rovers sold will be equipped with zero tailpipe powertrains.
      Jaguar Land Rover’s aim is to achieve net zero carbon emissions across its supply chain, products and operations by 2039. As part of this ambition, the company is also preparing for the expected adoption of clean fuel-cell power in line with a maturing of the hydrogen economy. Development is already underway with prototypes arriving on UK roads within the next 12 months as part of the long-term investment programme.
      Sustainability that delivers a new benchmark in environmental and societal impact for the luxury sector is fundamental to the success of Reimagine. A new centralised team will be empowered to build on and accelerate pioneering innovations in materiality, engineering, manufacturing, services and circular economy investments. 
      Annual commitments of circa £2.5bn will include investments in electrification technologies and the development of connected services to enhance the journey and experiences of customers, alongside data-centric technologies that will further improve their ownership ecosystem.
      Proven services like the flexible PIVOTAL subscription model (which has grown 750% during the fiscal year), born out of Jaguar Land Rover’s incubator and investor arm, InMotion, will now be rolled out to other markets following a successful launch in the UK.
      Quality and efficiency
      Reimagine will see Jaguar Land Rover establish new benchmark standards in quality and efficiency for the luxury sector by rightsizing, repurposing and reorganising.
      Central to that journey, and in order to establish different personalities for the two brands, is the new architecture strategy. 
      Land Rover will use the forthcoming flex Modular Longitudinal Architecture (MLA). It will deliver electrified internal combustion engines (ICE) and full electric variants as the company evolves its product line-up in the future. In addition, Land Rover will also use pure electric biased Electric Modular Architecture (EMA) which will also support advanced electrified ICE.
      Future Jaguar models will be built exclusively on a pure electric architecture.
      Reimagine is designed to deliver simplification too. By consolidating the number of platforms and models being produced per plant, the company will be able to establish new benchmark standards in efficient scale and quality for the luxury sector. Such an approach will help rationalise sourcing and accelerate investments in local circular economy supply chains.
      From a core manufacturing perspective that means Jaguar Land Rover will retain its plant and assembly facilities in the home UK market and around the world. As well as being the manufacturer of the MLA architecture, Solihull, West Midlands will also be the home to the future advanced Jaguar pure electric platform. 
      Key partners including Trade Unions, retailers and those in the supply chain will continue to play a vital part of the extended new Jaguar Land Rover ecosystem and its journey towards reimagining the future of modern luxury.
      ReFocus to a more agile operation
      As evidenced with the latest financial results, Jaguar Land Rover has a strong foundation on which to build a sustainable and resilient business for its customers and their communities, partners, employees, shareholders and the environment.
      Driving this transformation is the recently launched Refocus programme, by consolidating existing initiatives like Charge+ with new cross-functional activities.
      Reimagine will see Jaguar Land Rover right-size, repurpose and reorganise into a more agile operation. The creation of a flatter structure is designed to empower employees to create and deliver at speed and with clear purpose.
      To accelerate this efficiency of focus, the company will substantially reduce and rationalise its non-manufacturing infrastructure in the UK. Gaydon will become the symbol of this effort – the ‘reactor’ of the business - with the Executive Team and other management functions moving into the one location to aid frictionless cooperation and agile decision-making.  
      Leapfrog to leadership with Tata Group
      In order to realise its vision of modern luxury mobility with confidence, the company will curate closer collaboration and knowledge-sharing with Tata Group companies to enhance sustainability and reduce emissions as well as sharing best practice in next-generation technology, data and software development leadership. Jaguar Land Rover has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Motors, in which Tata Sons is the largest shareholder, since 2008.
      “We have so many ingredients from within. It is a unique opportunity,” said Mr Bolloré. “Others have to rely solely on external partnerships and compromise, but we have frictionless access that will allow us to lean forward with confidence and at speed.”
      Bringing all these ingredients together, Jaguar Land Rover is on a path towards double-digit EBIT margins and positive cash flow, with an ambition to achieve positive cash net-of-debt by 2025. 
      Ultimately, Jaguar Land Rover aims to be one of the most profitable luxury manufacturers in the world.
      Mr N Chandrasekaran, Chairman of Tata Sons, Tata Motors and Jaguar Land Rover Automotive plc commented: “The Reimagine strategy takes Jaguar Land Rover on a significant path of acceleration in harmony with the vision and sustainability priorities of the wider Tata Group. Together, we will help Jaguar realise its potential, reinforce Land Rover’s timeless appeal and collectively become a symbol of a truly responsible business for its customers, society and the planet.”
      Mr Bolloré concluded: “As a human-centred company, we can, and will, move much faster and with clear purpose of not just reimagining modern luxury but defining it for two distinct brands. Brands that present emotionally unique designs, pieces of art if you like, but all with connected technologies and responsible materials that collectively set new standards in ownership. We are reimagining a new modern luxury by design.”
    • By William Maley
      The COVID-19 pandemic has possibly caused another auto show to rethink their plans. According to Automotive News, organizers of the show are planning to delay the show from November to next May. Three sources tell the outlet the new dates are May 21st to 31st. Two of sources go on to say that an announcement could come this week.
      Automotive News tried to get comment from Terri Toennies, president of the show, but did not reply.
      By possibly moving the LA Auto Show to May, automakers and organizers of the New York and Detroit shows find themselves in a difficult spot. The LA show sandwiches between New York (April) and the revised Detroit show (June), which may cause automakers to make difficult decisions as to which shows get the most significant unveilings or whether to attend at all.
      Auto shows in general have been struggling before the onset of the pandemic. With automakers deciding to hold their own events to have more time in the spotlight and save cash, the spectacle of the show has gone down.
      We'll keep you posted.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The COVID-19 pandemic has possibly caused another auto show to rethink their plans. According to Automotive News, organizers of the show are planning to delay the show from November to next May. Three sources tell the outlet the new dates are May 21st to 31st. Two of sources go on to say that an announcement could come this week.
      Automotive News tried to get comment from Terri Toennies, president of the show, but did not reply.
      By possibly moving the LA Auto Show to May, automakers and organizers of the New York and Detroit shows find themselves in a difficult spot. The LA show sandwiches between New York (April) and the revised Detroit show (June), which may cause automakers to make difficult decisions as to which shows get the most significant unveilings or whether to attend at all.
      Auto shows in general have been struggling before the onset of the pandemic. With automakers deciding to hold their own events to have more time in the spotlight and save cash, the spectacle of the show has gone down.
      We'll keep you posted.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
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