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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Great Wall Motor Says They're Interested in Buying Jeep

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      A Chinese Automaker wants Jeep, just not the rest of FCA

    Ever since the rumor of a Chinese automaker possibly buying Fiat Chrysler Automobiles came to light last week, the various Chinese brands have been saying 'not us'. It seemed no one was interested in taking FCA to the dance, or wanted to admit it out loud. That changed today as Great Wall Motor revealed to Automotive News that it was interested in buying FCA, well part of it.

    Great Wall President Wang Fengying wrote in an email to Automotive News that the company is intending to buy Jeep and is "connecting with FCA" to possibly begin negotiations. Xu Hui, a spokesman for Great Wall said in a follow-up email that the company "has indirectly expressed interest in Jeep but has not yet made a formal offer or met with FCA's board."

    A statement from FCA says that it has not been contacted by Great Wall about Jeep or any other business matter.

    It doesn't come as a big surprise that Great Wall is only interested Jeep. The brand is seen by many as being the crown jewel of FCA due to its reputation of being a go-anywhere SUV. Analysts believe the brand on its own is worth more than FCA as a whole. Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas estimated last week that Jeep has a value of $33.5 billion vs. the $32 billion for FCA.

    If Great Wall was to purchase Jeep, what would they do with it?

    "Our strategic goal is to become the world's largest SUV maker. Acquiring Jeep, a global SUV brand, would enable us to achieve our goal sooner and better" than Great Wall could do with its own brands, said Hui.

    Great Wall has an r&d center in Los Angeles and has just set up another one in Detroit this year to learn more about the U.S. market.

    The big question is will FCA be willing to part with Jeep or require Great Wall to buy most of FCA.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    So could FCA throw in Ram, Dodge and Chrysler in Selling Jeep? Could FCA get $33 Billion for the 4 nameplates? Wonder how much FCA thinks all 4 combined is worth?

    Right now we all know that Jeep is what is keeping the rest of FCA afloat.

    Interesting :scratchchin:

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    If you needed anymore proof that the only brand worth any kind money under FCA is Jeep, this right here is it. This is what happens when everything else under their U.S. Umbrella gets neglected to the point of obsoletence. 

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    To sell all of FCA, Sergio would first have to close Chrysler and Dodge.  Ram trucks are useless in China or Europe, they probably make sense for a Chinese maker that wants US market sales.  

    Problem with selling Jeep alone is the rest of FCA is worthless.  If they sell Jeep now what do they do with the rest of the company?   This is like when a baseball team trades a top prospect but makes the receiving team take a dead weight contract.

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    They won't sell Jeep.  And no, Jeep is not the only brand is FCA worthwhile.  We might as well say say Cadillac and Lincoln are $h! because they are getting slammed in the lux car market.  Buick is basically useless in the US as their sales continue to drop.  The Ram outsells the GMC Sierra by what, 3 or 4 to 1?  Let's quit saying stuff just because we have a very silly hatred of a company.  

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    25 minutes ago, Stew said:

    They won't sell Jeep.  And no, Jeep is not the only brand is FCA worthwhile.  We might as well say say Cadillac and Lincoln are $h! because they are getting slammed in the lux car market.  Buick is basically useless in the US as their sales continue to drop.  The Ram outsells the GMC Sierra by what, 3 or 4 to 1?  Let's quit saying stuff just because we have a very silly hatred of a company.  

    Stop acting like everyone has a simple hatred when they are only talking about the facts. Jeep has more value than everything combined else in the FCA stable. It's simple economics, not simple hatred. 

     

    We wont even get into the silly RAM vs GMC comparison as your pointless Buick and Cadillac remark. That's just deflection on your part. For example, Buick is only 0.7% off of this time last year so they are clearly not "basically useless". 

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    I knu how this thread wold go the moment I clicked on it... and of course the FCA lover would make excuses and try and make irrelevant comparisons.. Hey Stew.. The Ram goes up against more than just the Sierra.. I'd say that the Silverado is also its competition.. and combined they are out in from by about 130K.. PLUS.. another 80K with their 7/8s Canyon and Colorado versions.. So what was your point? Anyone saying that FCA would be fucked.. if they got rid of Jeep.. is 100% correct.. and the only saving grace for FCA would be for them to MERGE WITH Great Wall.. giving both companies a better outlook.

     

     Personally I would like to see GM  or Ford step in to get some of that "Chrysler pussy..":lol: God knows every other car company has gotten to hit that ass the WHORE that it is.. might as well give that ass up to an American company for a change.

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    2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    I knu how this thread wold go the moment I clicked on it... and of course the FCA lover would make excuses and try and make irrelevant comparisons.. Hey Stew.. The Ram goes up against more than just the Sierra.. I'd say that the Silverado is also its competition.. and combined they are out in from by about 130K.. PLUS.. another 80K with their 7/8s Canyon and Colorado versions.. So what was your point? Anyone saying that FCA would be fucked.. if they got rid of Jeep.. is 100% correct.. and the only saving grace for FCA would be for them to MERGE WITH Great Wall.. giving both companies a better outlook.

     

     Personally I would like to see GM  or Ford step in to get some of that "Chrysler pussy..":lol: God knows every other car company has gotten to hit that ass the WHORE that it is.. might as well give that ass up to an American company for a change.

    I don't know that GM needs to sully its reputation with sloppy seconds...or more like thirty seconds...

    4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Stop acting like everyone has a simple hatred when they are only talking about the facts. Jeep has more value than everything combined else in the FCA stable. It's simple economics, not simple hatred. 

     

    We wont even get into the silly RAM vs GMC comparison as your pointless Buick and Cadillac remark. That's just deflection on your part. For example, Buick is only 0.7% off of this time last year so they are clearly not "basically useless". 

    I talked about how Chryco was going to have to build relevant product for years on this forum and everyone thought I was a hater...and now Chryco only seems to build retro muscle cars and the badly dated 300....

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    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I don't know that GM needs to sully its reputation with sloppy seconds...or more like thirty seconds...

    I talked about how Chryco was going to have to build relevant product for years on this forum and everyone thought I was a hater...and now Chryco only seems to build retro muscle cars and the badly dated 300....

    Yet I still like both cars. 

     

    You are correct though sir. 

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    I wish that the Chinese would just simply buy FCA or merge with FCA.

    One: Sergio would be fired almost immediately.  Two: the Chinese can do what no one else can do, which is to rationalize the US car market.  There is little to no real reason to buy MOST Chryco products not named Jeep (except for the minivans).  Ram is easily eclipsed by the F-series and the Silverado/Sierra twins.  Most Chrysler and Dodge cars are second rate at best compared to the competition.  Most things FIAT are basically lame and irrelevant in this marketplace.  Alfa Romeo is irrelevant here too.

    I do not care who picks up FCA; I just care that FCA disappears into the ether (if that happens).

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    Sergio is set to retire in 2019, I thought I read somewhere and maybe it was on this site that he is in line for a pretty big bonus if he can sell FCA or parts of it.  They spun off Ferrari into a $9 billion business so they aren't opposed to doing that.

    The problem with a single sale of Jeep is you are stuff with the rest of FCA.  And Alfa/Maserati could never make it alone they are too small.  I think Sergio is going to everything possible to find a buyer though.

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    13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Yet I still like both cars. 

     

    You are correct though sir. 

    I like them also.  I like the 65/66 Mustang Fastback more than almost any other post war American car...but it is also rather dated....

    8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Sergio is set to retire in 2019, I thought I read somewhere and maybe it was on this site that he is in line for a pretty big bonus if he can sell FCA or parts of it.  They spun off Ferrari into a $9 billion business so they aren't opposed to doing that.

    The problem with a single sale of Jeep is you are stuff with the rest of FCA.  And Alfa/Maserati could never make it alone they are too small.  I think Sergio is going to everything possible to find a buyer though.

    Sergio needs to retire and take up Golf.  Jeep is the only valuable part of the equation...

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    12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The problem with a single sale of Jeep is you are stuff with the rest of FCA.

    And then there's really only value left in Ram. Nothing else really has any true value to somebody else with what their current portfolio looks like. The brands have value but they've just let them rot away. 

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    7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    And then there's really only value left in Ram. Nothing else really has any true value to somebody else with what their current portfolio looks like. The brands have value but they've just let them rot away. 

    So True, I honestly only see a Chinese buyer for the Full FCA US portfolio as FCA Euro is all about their trashy Fiat, Alfa crud.

    I can see a Chinese auto company buying up FCA US, expanding and growing Jeep, Ram for the US and select global markets and then use their Chinese auto's to bring back Dodge and Chrysler or they truly kill off Chrysler and inform the dealers that they are now going to be a Wang Dealer as an example.

    I personally think there is still a glut of brands and as such, some are going to have to join the history books. I love the Dodge history and would like to see them survive, but I can honestly see Chrysler being killed off, move the mini van to Dodge and call it a day.

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    I still don't understand why Chrysler wasn't turned into a Lincoln/Buick/GMC/Lexus/Acura competitor. Yeah, the 300 was a fancy Charger but that's about it.. If they didn't $h! the bed with the Dart and 200 they should have made luxury versions of both of those(I know the 200 was Chrysler but they should have done a Ford/Lincoln,Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Chevy/Buick job to it and made it a Dodge AND a luxury Chrysler). I feel like they left a lot on the table with those two cars... Could have had an SRT 200(Dodge version then a Chrysler luxury version), and obviously people wanted a compact SRT Dart and then they could have made a luxury competitor to the ILX, CLA, 2 Series. But, alas, they $h! the bed...again.

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    12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Sergio is set to retire in 2019, I thought I read somewhere and maybe it was on this site that he is in line for a pretty big bonus if he can sell FCA or parts of it.  They spun off Ferrari into a $9 billion business so they aren't opposed to doing that.

    The problem with a single sale of Jeep is you are stuff with the rest of FCA.  And Alfa/Maserati could never make it alone they are too small.  I think Sergio is going to everything possible to find a buyer though.

    Yes, he gets a giant golden parachute if he sells off FCA US.  That, I think, is his underlying motivation for knee-capping the entire organization. 

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    17 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I still don't understand why Chrysler wasn't turned into a Lincoln/Buick/GMC/Lexus/Acura competitor. Yeah, the 300 was a fancy Charger but that's about it.. If they didn't $h! the bed with the Dart and 200 they should have made luxury versions of both of those(I know the 200 was Chrysler but they should have done a Ford/Lincoln,Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Chevy/Buick job to it and made it a Dodge AND a luxury Chrysler). I feel like they left a lot on the table with those two cars... Could have had an SRT 200(Dodge version then a Chrysler luxury version), and obviously people wanted a compact SRT Dart and then they could have made a luxury competitor to the ILX, CLA, 2 Series. But, alas, they $h! the bed...again.

    Agree, many lost chances, Sergio the Ignorant really messed up when he could have reinvested the Billions he stole to bring back Alfa from the History books and could have beefed up the FCA US products to increase more profits and then used said profits to do his own pet Italian garbage projects.

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    13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I still don't understand why Chrysler wasn't turned into a Lincoln/Buick/GMC/Lexus/Acura competitor. Yeah, the 300 was a fancy Charger but that's about it.. If they didn't $h! the bed with the Dart and 200 they should have made luxury versions of both of those(I know the 200 was Chrysler but they should have done a Ford/Lincoln,Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Chevy/Buick job to it and made it a Dodge AND a luxury Chrysler). I feel like they left a lot on the table with those two cars... Could have had an SRT 200(Dodge version then a Chrysler luxury version), and obviously people wanted a compact SRT Dart and then they could have made a luxury competitor to the ILX, CLA, 2 Series. But, alas, they $h! the bed...again.

    You're already twice the CEO that Sergio is.  There should have never been a base model 200. It should have started around $28k, came standard with a 2.0T and an optional 3.6.  Leather standard. It could have been right there with the TLX / Regal.  Drop all of the 200 models below that.

    Keep the Dart, make an Avenger that is a rebadge of the 200, but with the base Tigershark and maybe an optional 2.0T.  No AWD offered. Start it a little bit cheaper than a base Fusion or Malibu. 

    The 300 with an upgraded interior to the level of the Lacrosse would have done wonders for that car. It has all the hardware needed to more than compete, but the interior is behind the others. Raise the base price a bit to compensate for the better interior and give the newly upgraded 200 described above some breathing room.

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    https://www.fcagroup.com/en-US/investors/financial_regulatory/financial_reports/files/FCA_NV_2017_06_30_Semi_Annual_Report.pdf

    Talk about creative accounting, NAFTA is shown to be a money losing debt, but the bulk of sales is here in NAFTA and they show Europe especially Fiat, Alfa, etc. brands to be profitable.

    I wonder how the Chinese will feel about taking on large chunks of delayed liabilities and taxes.

    Very interesting financial report.

    LOL Sergio says his Alfa will sell 170K auto's in 2017.

    Interesting read.

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20170603/RETAIL01/170609910/alfa-romeo-stelvio-crossover-sergio-marchionne

    Interesting that this latest story covering his pay package and incentives is very grey in regards to what those pay incentives are. FCA own filing is very vague.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fiat-chrysler-ceo-idUSKBN1682UV

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    14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Sergio is set to retire in 2019, I thought I read somewhere and maybe it was on this site that he is in line for a pretty big bonus if he can sell FCA or parts of it.  They spun off Ferrari into a $9 billion business so they aren't opposed to doing that.

    The problem with a single sale of Jeep is you are stuff with the rest of FCA.  And Alfa/Maserati could never make it alone they are too small.  I think Sergio is going to everything possible to find a buyer though.

    I can't wait for the fire sale that will likely happen.

    Buy one brand, get the others for free!

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    2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    And then there's really only value left in Ram. Nothing else really has any true value to somebody else with what their current portfolio looks like. The brands have value but they've just let them rot away. 

    Agreed.

    42 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    I can't wait for the fire sale that will likely happen.

    Buy one brand, get the others for free!

    In the case of Chryco, sounds like a Chinese curse or a Trojan horse...

    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    You're already twice the CEO that Sergio is.  There should have never been a base model 200. It should have started around $28k, came standard with a 2.0T and an optional 3.6.  Leather standard. It could have been right there with the TLX / Regal.  Drop all of the 200 models below that.

    Keep the Dart, make an Avenger that is a rebadge of the 200, but with the base Tigershark and maybe an optional 2.0T.  No AWD offered. Start it a little bit cheaper than a base Fusion or Malibu. 

    The 300 with an upgraded interior to the level of the Lacrosse would have done wonders for that car. It has all the hardware needed to more than compete, but the interior is behind the others. Raise the base price a bit to compensate for the better interior and give the newly upgraded 200 described above some breathing room.

    This would have done a lot for them.

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    5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    You're already twice the CEO that Sergio is.  There should have never been a base model 200. It should have started around $28k, came standard with a 2.0T and an optional 3.6.  Leather standard. It could have been right there with the TLX / Regal.  Drop all of the 200 models below that.

    Keep the Dart, make an Avenger that is a rebadge of the 200, but with the base Tigershark and maybe an optional 2.0T.  No AWD offered. Start it a little bit cheaper than a base Fusion or Malibu. 

    The 300 with an upgraded interior to the level of the Lacrosse would have done wonders for that car. It has all the hardware needed to more than compete, but the interior is behind the others. Raise the base price a bit to compensate for the better interior and give the newly upgraded 200 described above some breathing room.

    The problem with all that is the 200 wasn't competitive with a Malibu, let alone a Camry.  To get the 200 competitive with an Acura or Lincoln is a huge leap.   The other problem is FCA can't make a good interior.  They could have taken the Maserati Ghibli interior and put it in the Dart, and the fit and finish and quality would have still lagged way behind an Accord.

    The current 300/Charger is beyond saving, that needs a clean sheet redesign, with a new engine line up, the Pentatar is 7 years old, that Hemi is pushing 12 years without a lot of updates.  FCA has zero interest in spending the money to do upgrade all that.   Sergio just wants to milk out whatever money is left in these dated cars with Hellcat engines.   He either has to cut the fat first then sell FCA as a package or sell Jeep first, give Exor the $33 billion and let the of FCA rest collapse. 

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    Sergio despises what used to be Chrysler Corporation and apparently the board loves everything FIAT/Alfa Romeo.  That is why Chryco product has been starved of great interiors and better product for most of this decade.  What is really sad is that this may well have been a deserved fate since 1978 when Lee iacocca took over Chrysler and got the federal government to give out loan guarantees to save the firm.  Ever since then (especially since 1998), Chrysler has always been on borrowed time.  Chrysler deserves a dignified funeral instead of the fate of being Sergio's abused whore.

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    On 8/22/2017 at 5:42 PM, smk4565 said:

    The problem with all that is the 200 wasn't competitive with a Malibu, let alone a Camry.  To get the 200 competitive with an Acura or Lincoln is a huge leap.   The other problem is FCA can't make a good interior.  They could have taken the Maserati Ghibli interior and put it in the Dart, and the fit and finish and quality would have still lagged way behind an Accord.

    The current 300/Charger is beyond saving, that needs a clean sheet redesign, with a new engine line up, the Pentatar is 7 years old, that Hemi is pushing 12 years without a lot of updates.  FCA has zero interest in spending the money to do upgrade all that.   Sergio just wants to milk out whatever money is left in these dated cars with Hellcat engines.   He either has to cut the fat first then sell FCA as a package or sell Jeep first, give Exor the $33 billion and let the of FCA rest collapse. 

    The 200 wasn't competitive with value shoppers who were looking for the biggest car for their dollar.  Making it a bit more premium with a base 2.0T instead of the Tigershark would have gone a long way towards putting it more like a TLX, Regal, or whatever size equivalent Infiniti.

    Everybody wants to knock the 200, but it is really not at all a bad car. It's just smaller than the rest of the class it tried to compete in and that put it out of step with the market. But they drive well, in upper trims feel reasonably premium, and for a little while there, they were the only 6-cylinder AWD mid-size you could buy that wasn't a Subaru. 

    The Pentastar just got a major refresh, so you're wrong there. Hemi hasn't needed much in updates, it does as well as the updated V8s from GM.   I don't care about the age of a particular design as long as it performs well... and both the V6 and V8 in Chrysler's stable, perform very well.   It's their 2.4 liter that needs the updates the most. 

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      890,027           913,212            -3%


       
         
       
    • By Drew Dowdell
      FCA has sent a merger proposal to Renault in what would start as an operational tie-up leading to a full merger. The proposal is a 50/50 deal that will not involve Nissan or Mitsubishi and it estimated to be worth around $33 billion. Few details have been revealed, however, Renault's board said it would issue a press release after the meeting. Rumor has it that Renault is negotiating with FCA without the approval from Nissan or Mitsubishi.
      If the merger does go through, it would happen over the next 12 months and the combined companies would rank 3rd in the world in terms of production, just behind Toyota and Volkswagen.  One complication to the deal is the French government's 15% stake in Renault. FCA has offered a guarantee to keep existing production locations but left the door open for white-collar job cuts. 
      This comes after FCA turned down a merger proposal from PSA back in March of this year. 

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      FCA has sent a merger proposal to Renault in what would start as an operational tie-up leading to a full merger. The proposal is a 50/50 deal that will not involve Nissan or Mitsubishi and it estimated to be worth around $33 billion. Few details have been revealed, however, Renault's board said it would issue a press release after the meeting. Rumor has it that Renault is negotiating with FCA without the approval from Nissan or Mitsubishi.
      If the merger does go through, it would happen over the next 12 months and the combined companies would rank 3rd in the world in terms of production, just behind Toyota and Volkswagen.  One complication to the deal is the French government's 15% stake in Renault. FCA has offered a guarantee to keep existing production locations but left the door open for white-collar job cuts. 
      This comes after FCA turned down a merger proposal from PSA back in March of this year. 
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Jeep is rumored to be testing a Mercedes-Benz supplied 2.0 liter Turbo-Diesel in 14 test vehicles in the Detroit, Michigan area. However, it is unlikely that such a vehicle would be sold in the U.S. The most likely scenario is that this is testing for the European and Asian markets.
      The Compasses were converted by an independent supplier for FCA and the suspected engine of choice is the Mercedes-Benz OM654 2.0 diesel producing 192 HP and 295 lb-ft of torque. The engine was released in 2016 for the E-Class, but the engine was designed to be mounted in transverse applications as well. 
      In the U.S., the Compass is only sold with a 2.4 liter gasoline engine.  In Europe, the Compass comes with a two different 1.4-liter gasoline engines (140 hp an 170hp), two 2.0-liter diesel engines (140 hp and 170 hp), and a 1.6-liter diesel engine (120 hp). Which engine you can get largely depends on if the car is 4x4 or not. 
      GM currently sells its compact crossovers with a 1.6-liter turbo diesel, and Mazda finally unveiled their diesel CX-5. We think that this diesel Compass would be a good fit in the U.S. and should FCA be reading this, please bring it here.
       

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Jeep is rumored to be testing a Mercedes-Benz supplied 2.0 liter Turbo-Diesel in 14 test vehicles in the Detroit, Michigan area. However, it is unlikely that such a vehicle would be sold in the U.S. The most likely scenario is that this is testing for the European and Asian markets.
      The Compasses were converted by an independent supplier for FCA and the suspected engine of choice is the Mercedes-Benz OM654 2.0 diesel producing 192 HP and 295 lb-ft of torque. The engine was released in 2016 for the E-Class, but the engine was designed to be mounted in transverse applications as well. 
      In the U.S., the Compass is only sold with a 2.4 liter gasoline engine.  In Europe, the Compass comes with a two different 1.4-liter gasoline engines (140 hp an 170hp), two 2.0-liter diesel engines (140 hp and 170 hp), and a 1.6-liter diesel engine (120 hp). Which engine you can get largely depends on if the car is 4x4 or not. 
      GM currently sells its compact crossovers with a 1.6-liter turbo diesel, and Mazda finally unveiled their diesel CX-5. We think that this diesel Compass would be a good fit in the U.S. and should FCA be reading this, please bring it here.
       
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