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z28luvr01

Lutz: Volt Still a Go for '10

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Happy Birthday indeed!

To hell with the naysayers.

What else can he say, the naysayers have him by the Family Jewels! I hope the time-frame doesn't slip or we will never hear the end of it. :rolleyes:

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What else can he say, the naysayers have him by the Family Jewels! I hope the time-frame doesn't slip or we will never hear the end of it. :rolleyes:

No, they don't.

2010 has never been a firm date, always just a target.

Still, I think they'll make it.

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The Volt made it to the front page of the Financial Post's Business magazine, seen all across Canada. There is a great article about the technology and about GM's 'saving' the electric car. Whether the Volt is a success or not, GM has already torn a page out of the Toyota propaganda book, which is in of itself a turn-around for GM!

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I think GM is on the right track and I think we'll see the Volt in production. Its great to see GM with some balls, trying new things again...

Chris

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you see some of the comments on the fast lane blogs? man, one dude made some comment about 'are you going to send those vehicles to the crusher too' or something.

People like that need to GFT. And to believe everything you see in a 'movie'? (WKTEC)

Brian Esser, you are a BIG TIME LOSER. GFY.

Edited by regfootball
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No, they don't.

2010 has never been a firm date, always just a target.

Still, I think they'll make it.

Also, if the technology works as predicted and the car does not look like a angry toaster it will be a step forward. The critics will have to contend with it even if it is a few months late.

Something has to be up as BMW and Chrysler also made anouncements about their products based on the same technology.

Contrary to what much of the publc thinks GM is not that far behind on electric technology. They just wanted to wait till better technology arrived and the Hybrid cars were a little more practical or cheaper to build [profitable]. But Toyota has already proven the public is willing to accept half bakes hybrids at this point.

In the past GM could have done a Prius but the public would have never accepted the short comings in the car from GM as they have Toyota. If GM did that car first it would have been called a bust but because of Toyotas precieved technology leadership.

With the New GM cars just out and the new ones still to come the Volt can be a fearther in the cap. GM though even in low volume will have to get it right and work with the first owners to make sure they are taken care of. No way can they pull the carpet out from under these owners as they did on the leased EV-1 drivers. While pulling that car was not a big deal it was a public relations mess due to our lothesom idiot Michael Moore.

Edited by hyperv6
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I'm withya Hyper, but you might want to do some editing. :AH-HA_wink:

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In a society that is relatively getting impatient and shortsighted, longterm benefits and resolutions of an entity are always looked in scorn and are abandoned like rats fleeing a ship weakage.

Prius and GM hatred are a perfect example of this society.

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just what is shortsighted about hybrid tech? what is wrong with the kool aid today? that is weird. hmmm, you've got a car that gets 45mpg regularly [my civic hybrid] and a prius which attains incrementally higher figures all the way up to 50 mpg, depending on a driver's routine drive and driving habits.

By the way I flog the hell out of this car. I've been meaning to write something on it, maybe a long term, just haven't found the time or dedication. But it's ridiculous to call a car "half-baked" that is incredibly practical, incredibly wonderful and easy to drive, and yet in a broad sense does help the ecosystem. [new prius owners would have chosen any other new car, in Los Angeles in particular the hybrid has been in "vogue", so the average luxury buyer suddenly became interested in a Prius.]

I don't understand how a hybrid is half-baked? Prius gets 50 mpg. Comparable small cars average closer to 30 mpg. Corolla's best mileage figures from real world driving are in the low to mid 30's range, but Prius has actual torque. These cars are actually surprisingly quick, and at least mine is less devoid of feel than most any GM car.

Edited by turbo200
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I should really go drive a Prius sometime, just to know more about how it actually performs. I have to somewhat agree with turbo - people on here bash the prius like it's a total piece of crap that doesn't have any benfit, and that's not true. Sure, it doesn't regularly meet it's numbers, and that's a good thing to toss in the face of someone who wants to get pious about their Prius, but it is a decently sized, economical car. Does the hybrid technology pay for itself? Barely, if it does, but it does get good milage, and the break-even point gets lower with every gas price hike. I look forward to the Volt hopefully blowing the Prius out of the water, but I'm not counting on it - Toyota won't sit on their butts and leave the Prius unimproved. It will be an interesting race, and it'll be great to see GM being a serious contender in it. Hopefully they can be profitable with the Volt at the same time that they're competitive in the mpg & sales numbers game.

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I can understand the disgust for the Prius by many people on C&G, but truthfully it isn't a bad little car. What is 'wrong' with the car is the $10k premium over a 4 cylinder Camry (and even more over the 4 cylinder Malibu), which for most people would never justify the fuel savings. However, for those people for whom 'image' is everything (and for whom the Prius presents an image they want to project), the Prius is a decent car. It makes a helluva lot more sense than the FUGLY Smart Car (not.)

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Some of us are more concerned with total gas consumption rather than cost. The Prius is better at gas consumption than any other car out there. People pay extra for the best... and there is nothing wrong with that. It's the same reason some people buy their cheese at Wholefoods rather than Kraft singles at the local grocery.

That said, I hate the Prius for it's pregnant shoebox styling... not it's technology. I really enjoy the Civic Hybrid I drive every week.

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just what is shortsighted about hybrid tech? what is wrong with the kool aid today? that is weird. hmmm, you've got a car that gets 45mpg regularly [my civic hybrid] and a prius which attains incrementally higher figures all the way up to 50 mpg, depending on a driver's routine drive and driving habits.

By the way I flog the hell out of this car. I've been meaning to write something on it, maybe a long term, just haven't found the time or dedication. But it's ridiculous to call a car "half-baked" that is incredibly practical, incredibly wonderful and easy to drive, and yet in a broad sense does help the ecosystem. [new prius owners would have chosen any other new car, in Los Angeles in particular the hybrid has been in "vogue", so the average luxury buyer suddenly became interested in a Prius.]

I don't understand how a hybrid is half-baked? Prius gets 50 mpg. Comparable small cars average closer to 30 mpg. Corolla's best mileage figures from real world driving are in the low to mid 30's range, but Prius has actual torque. These cars are actually surprisingly quick, and at least mine is less devoid of feel than most any GM car.

The few people I know that have a Prius have taught me a thing or two about their cars.

They complained as they did not get the higher milage they were promised till they were taught to drive it like you have an egg on the gas pedal. They were disapointed to get in the 30+ MPG range when they drive it like a regular car. While it is not bad milage I can do that in just a regular gas car.

They also are not happy as they have had to make many trips to the dealer for problems they have had.

I have learned If they had bought a VW Desiel they would have saved money, been able to drive the hell out of it and still get near or better milage than a Pruis. No need to learn a whole new way of driving.

The hybrids for the most part are political statments and the true impact is very small. If you wanted to make a greater impact Toyota could have made all the new Tundras hybrids and made their most ineffecent vehicle more efficent. My thinking is improve the poor mileage getter vs the cars that already get good milage.

The bottom line is I don't hate this car [Though I do not like the styling]. But I do not see the big gains by adding a few MPG to a car that gets pretty good milage and requires you to change all your driving habits or life style to get the full impact.

I know the industy is working toward a car that will meet everyones needs and not make them have to change their life style or habits. This is where the Pruis has failed. I know in time it will improve and these restrictions will go away. When I mean half baked I mean this is a Idea that is not fully developed to where it needs to be.

The day a Hybrid will serve all your present needs and not restrict your life in any way compared to your present vehicle it then has been perfected. For general public acceptance this goal needs to be reached.

With the way development is going that day may not be far off but it just is not here yet.

By the way the V6 Civic Hybrid I though was a much better concept adding economy to a normal looking car that has enough power to serve all your needs. I think because it looked too normal it just never caught on with the folks wanting to make a statment.

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due to our lothesom idiot Rodger Moore.

Sean Connery was better, but still I think Moore is underrated

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I can understand the disgust for the Prius by many people on C&G, but truthfully it isn't a bad little car. What is 'wrong' with the car is the $10k premium over a 4 cylinder Camry (and even more over the 4 cylinder Malibu), which for most people would never justify the fuel savings. However, for those people for whom 'image' is everything (and for whom the Prius presents an image they want to project), the Prius is a decent car. It makes a helluva lot more sense than the FUGLY Smart Car (not.)

MSRP

Prius: $21,760

Camry LE: $21,735

Malibu LS: $19,995

CarsDirect Price

Prius: $21,636

Camry LE: $18,950

Malibu LS: $19,764

Fuel economy ('08 EPA)

Prius: 48/45 mpg

Camry LE: 21/31 mpg

Malibu 1LT: 22/30 mpg

While we're at it...

Camry Hybrid

MSRP: $25,860

CarsDirect: $23,977

Fuel economy: 33/34 MPG

There's no way a Prius can have a $10K premium, whether it's MSRP or actual purchase price.

There are people who simply want the most fuel-efficient car they can buy, the Prius. And Americans bought more Priuses in 2007 than they bought Explorers, helped by the fact it's also a practical and roomy five-door hatchback with lots of functionality, unlike the Insight.

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CANADIAN PRICES, sir. We have an '04 Prius on our lot for $23,999.

Our sister store sells an '08 Camry 4 cyl for $26k + taxes (13% here!); whereas, the Prius is $30k for a base (good luck finding one), but more like $36k with the 'C' package.

Add the 13% taxes to the above figures and they get truly mind boggling. Our prices do not yet reflect parity with the U.S dollar, although GM just announced 72 month financing at ZERO percent on the Cobalt/G5 today.

As I marvelled on another thread about the Malibu pricing, Canadian prices don't move that far off sticker. Toyota in particular, because there isn't much 'gross' in their vehicles. Invoice pricing doesn't exist here. GM prefers to offer 'incentives' to their deals; Toyota prefers to hold the line because, well, they are TOYOTA.

Edited by CARBIZ
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Canada prices aren't relevant to this discussion.

Mileage for the Prius who's commute is a balance of city and highway is 47 mpg. Having driven with her I can tell you she drives normally, aggressive but knows how to keep her foot planted for cruising once you're up to speed [say 70 on the freeway]. That's how I drive my Civic and I'm getting 42 mpg. Were I to drive on roads that offered less stop and go, like Pacific Coast Highway for example, which road conditions-wise I would say is close to a suburban road, not a lot of stoplights mostly driving at a good speed, not too much uphill driving...I could get 60-70 mpg! I live at the foot of Hollywood Hills, on the other side, my commute includes various trips uphill, and I'm always in severe traffic. I drive hard, let's just say I usually feel the torque from my electric motor, but I reach a constant speed and stay there. Of course distractions and not being focused, and even more stop and go and heavy stoplights can have a heavy affect on my gas mileage, bringing me down to ~38 mpg. That said, LA is actually considered extreme driving conditions. It's getting to a point where there's no room, and to merge in you just go, although I have to say the people are managing it well.

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Canada prices aren't relevant to this discussion.

They are if the discussion includes people in Canada.

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At Wilmington Assembly, and throughout GM, we're always being exhorted to embrace 'Stretch Targets/Goals'.

As with the recent announcement of their Ethanol venture, if they apply their considerable Corporate will I think all of this, and more is possible. Small steps, and when needed a leap.

Edited by longtooth
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They are if the discussion includes people in Canada.

the next time Canada's auto sales reach 18 million in one year, call me.

I don't mean to be harsh, but it's America's market that is pivotal to GM's growth, and that was the source of this discussion. If you want to discuss the likelihood of a Prius competitors' sales success in Canada, then you are free to start a thread.

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Canada prices aren't relevant to this discussion.

Mileage for the Prius who's commute is a balance of city and highway is 47 mpg. Having driven with her I can tell you she drives normally, aggressive but knows how to keep her foot planted for cruising once you're up to speed [say 70 on the freeway]. That's how I drive my Civic and I'm getting 42 mpg. Were I to drive on roads that offered less stop and go, like Pacific Coast Highway for example, which road conditions-wise I would say is close to a suburban road, not a lot of stoplights mostly driving at a good speed, not too much uphill driving...I could get 60-70 mpg! I live at the foot of Hollywood Hills, on the other side, my commute includes various trips uphill, and I'm always in severe traffic. I drive hard, let's just say I usually feel the torque from my electric motor, but I reach a constant speed and stay there. Of course distractions and not being focused, and even more stop and go and heavy stoplights can have a heavy affect on my gas mileage, bringing me down to ~38 mpg. That said, LA is actually considered extreme driving conditions. It's getting to a point where there's no room, and to merge in you just go, although I have to say the people are managing it well.

California driving is irrelevant to this discussion: 290 million other North Americans have to put up with salt, sleet, hail and snow. See what that does to your MPG numbers when the puny motor has to try and heat the cabin at 5 degrees in the winter. :lol:

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the next time Canada's auto sales reach 18 million in one year, call me.

I don't mean to be harsh, but it's America's market that is pivotal to GM's growth, and that was the source of this discussion. If you want to discuss the likelihood of a Prius competitors' sales success in Canada, then you are free to start a thread.

Sorry, but the last time I looked, GM sold more vehicles OUTSIDE the U.S. than inside. Right now it is markets OUTSIDE the U.S. that are critical to GM's future. And it seems to me that the precious RWD V-8s are coming from other places, too. (Australia, comes to mind.)

If Detroit did more 'outside' thinking (and some people on this board) perhaps Detroit wouldn't be in such a pickle. I don't want to pick a fight with my American cousins, but there is much to be learned by what is going on OUTSIDE. Get a passport and find out.

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