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regfootball

VUE TWO MODE HYBRID FIRST DRIVE

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28/31 is quite good.

this would be great to replace my family's van/truck and still beable to tow our boat...

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i know two people who have been waiting for this thing to come out. one of them, specifically because of the blend between mpg and towability.

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Why does GM insist on the dumb 'HYBRID' stickers on their dual-mode vehicles? God, it looks tacky.

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Why does GM insist on the dumb 'HYBRID' stickers on their dual-mode vehicles? God, it looks tacky.

YEAH, REALLY BAD, ACTUALLY. WHO ARE THE RETARDS AT GM WHO FIGURED ON THAT?

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Yeah, the badges are fine, but the big graphics along the bottom of the side are cheese. I'd probably get a greenline badge for it, too. I can understand that they didn't like the long name "Saturn Vue Green Line Two Mode Hybrid", but I liked the Red Line / Green Line thing in general.

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I agree with the reviewer that this should also be available with a 4. Honestly, GM is so backward in their hybrid thinking with regards to product segmentation.

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I agree with the reviewer that this should also be available with a 4. Honestly, GM is so backward in their hybrid thinking with regards to product segmentation.

How about AWD in a CUV as well? Ford's been doing it for years with the Escape.

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I seem to recall someone else trying the expensive performance V6 hybrid thing before. How did that go again?

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people, the 4 cyl vue hybrid is a value offering, BAS+ and low price = 30 mpg = great buy

the dual mode was developed with the 3.6 and 6 cylinder, don't you recall, this may go into other cars with the same powertrain (i.e. lambdas) where they need to utilize its touring prowess.

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people, the 4 cyl vue hybrid is a value offering, BAS+ and low price = 30 mpg = great buy

the dual mode was developed with the 3.6 and 6 cylinder, don't you recall, this may go into other cars with the same powertrain (i.e. lambdas) where they need to utilize its touring prowess.

Which makes two more good reasons why this product is a waste of time, money and effort from a company that can ill afford it.

Modern, high profit CUV's like the Lambdas make a hell of alot more sense than this application?

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Holy crap you are a crab ass.

THE BAS 4 cylinder was developed concurrently with the epsilon sedans. it was added to the vue to help amortize the cost of the BAS.

The Lambadas will eventually get the dual mode tech to amortize that as well. You can't limit that tech to ONE model.

The Vue is Saturn's feature product. If you go back the last few years, its their best selling model most likely.

When these products were developed, it was with the premise that CUV's would be a booming segment, and Saturn would be the image brand to do that.

BAS1 is the first step. BAS2 is the second step which will arrive soon.

If you compare the purchase price and mpg of the Vue BAS to the Escape hybrid, you see it has tangible advantages and disadvantages. One thing it does do, it allows hybrid tech at a cheaper price. For 09 with the revisions made recently, this farily good sized CUV should get a person 30 mpg in normal driving. unheard of for a solid, good handling vehicle with cargo space.

As far as the dual mode, its a two pronged approach. introduce the dual mode in a lesser price vehicle so sticker shock (see Tahoe) does not factor in with the lambadas. Sell the Vue dual mode for the same price as the escape hybrid. It should get near the equal mileage and have big functional advantages and performance advantages. Note: the escape hybrid is a pretty damn nice piece itself.

PERHAPS the part you are coming up sniffing fumes on is that to develop the 3.6/dual mode sysmte, they need to amortize its use over several vehicles and MAYBE the Vue was chosen first because its probably one of the largest volume vehicles they were considering it in. ALSO, if you note the TOWING CAPACITY (something they maybe felt would be a marketing advantage in this segment) for the Vue will be quite good and part of the dual mode's sell is that its superior for towing because of its

DUAL

MODE

30 mpg and hot rod performance from a CUV that can tow the snot better than some larger vehicles and is priced less than the SLOWER RDX (which uses twice as much fuel).

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

the reason the accord v6 hybrid was a waste, its performance was no better than competitions non hybird v6, and it was not a desirable vehicle for much else other than as an appliance. its price did not justify its advantages. in other words, a typical honda. go beyond the LCD and you move on from the big ugly H.

a 4 cylinder vue as escape hybrid prices would not sell. a BAS 4 popper at 5-10 grand less with 93% the mpg will. the 6 cylinder is introed on the vue and then other vehicles to spread it across the line. the vue was the best chance for them to kick off this powertrain and showcase the TOWING ABILITY.

by the way, the reg vue 4 cylinders after break in are seeing close to the same mpg real world as the slow as sh-t CRV.

Edited by regfootball
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I, for one, do not get GM's light-hybrid pricing strategy.

The merits of the BAS system were initially low cost and high flexibility, which would allow for greater volume across a greater model range. It was an affordable hybrid system for the masses, a way to go green without going broke.

But currently all GM light-hybrids have "very limited availability" and are priced nearly as much as the full-hybrid competition, which get significantly better city fuel economy.

VUE Hybrid - 25 mpg, city

$28,625 ($27,075 w/ tax credit)

Escape Hybrid - 34 mpg, city

$30,030 ($27,030 w/ tax credit)

AURA Hybrid - 26 mpg, city

$26,685 ($25,285 w/ tax credit)

Camry Hybrid - 33 mpg, city

$26,870 (no tax credit)

Altima Hybrid - 35 mpg, city

$27,345 ($24,995 w/ tax credit)

The full-hybrid competition also are much more powerful (2+ seconds quicker to 60), and all of them are PZEVs (the light-hybrids aren't).

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factor in rebates and discounts and there is a definite price advantage. however, all of GM's MSRP's are way too high.

altima is not 50 state BTW.

you cannot find a base optioned escape hybrid and other escape hybrids on the market have dealer markups. expect to pay 33-35k. two years ago you could find an escape hybrid with discounts.

personally i think its ok GM limits the output of the first gen BAS cars since they are working on BAS2.

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Holy crap you are a crab ass.

THE BAS 4 cylinder was developed concurrently with the epsilon sedans. it was added to the vue to help amortize the cost of the BAS.

The Lambadas will eventually get the dual mode tech to amortize that as well. You can't limit that tech to ONE model.

The Vue is Saturn's feature product. If you go back the last few years, its their best selling model most likely.

When these products were developed, it was with the premise that CUV's would be a booming segment, and Saturn would be the image brand to do that.

BAS1 is the first step. BAS2 is the second step which will arrive soon.

If you compare the purchase price and mpg of the Vue BAS to the Escape hybrid, you see it has tangible advantages and disadvantages. One thing it does do, it allows hybrid tech at a cheaper price. For 09 with the revisions made recently, this farily good sized CUV should get a person 30 mpg in normal driving. unheard of for a solid, good handling vehicle with cargo space.

As far as the dual mode, its a two pronged approach. introduce the dual mode in a lesser price vehicle so sticker shock (see Tahoe) does not factor in with the lambadas. Sell the Vue dual mode for the same price as the escape hybrid. It should get near the equal mileage and have big functional advantages and performance advantages. Note: the escape hybrid is a pretty damn nice piece itself.

PERHAPS the part you are coming up sniffing fumes on is that to develop the 3.6/dual mode sysmte, they need to amortize its use over several vehicles and MAYBE the Vue was chosen first because its probably one of the largest volume vehicles they were considering it in. ALSO, if you note the TOWING CAPACITY (something they maybe felt would be a marketing advantage in this segment) for the Vue will be quite good and part of the dual mode's sell is that its superior for towing because of its

DUAL

MODE

30 mpg and hot rod performance from a CUV that can tow the snot better than some larger vehicles and is priced less than the SLOWER RDX (which uses twice as much fuel).

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

the reason the accord v6 hybrid was a waste, its performance was no better than competitions non hybird v6, and it was not a desirable vehicle for much else other than as an appliance. its price did not justify its advantages. in other words, a typical honda. go beyond the LCD and you move on from the big ugly H.

a 4 cylinder vue as escape hybrid prices would not sell. a BAS 4 popper at 5-10 grand less with 93% the mpg will. the 6 cylinder is introed on the vue and then other vehicles to spread it across the line. the vue was the best chance for them to kick off this powertrain and showcase the TOWING ABILITY.

by the way, the reg vue 4 cylinders after break in are seeing close to the same mpg real world as the slow as sh-t CRV.

If you're telling me a VUE needed 2 hydrid versions while other product with the same engine AND higher price points could have been used....then I cannot accept your explanation.

2 CUV's that don't have a AWD option---that makes the decision even more indefensible, IMO (Full disclosure: my wife wants to lease a Hybrid w/AWD---she likes the VUE---she won't buy w/o AWD, period---the VUE is such a pig, there's no 4 cyl AWD, either).

I'm not crabby, just real. I've been 100% spot on---unfortunately. If GM seeks to lead, a 6 cylinder hybrid VUE w/o AWD is simply dumb.

A CTS hybrid? yes. A Lambda - available yesterday? yes. How about a Saab? Hell yes.

Another VUE with no AWD, no USP vs. Escape & a limited audience at Saturn dealerships? DUMB. And an excellent example of why GM is in the toilet--it's hybrid strategy is nowhere--

You can put a candle on a pile of sh!t, but please don't try to tell me its a birthday cake.

I thought that the fear of GM's ultimate demise now being a real, actual reality (not just something I was repeatedly accused of 'making up'), you guys might think about some critical, creative, constructive criticism. I guess I'm a little too optimistic!

Edited by enzl
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If you're telling me a VUE needed 2 hydrid versions while other product with the same engine AND higher price points could have been used....then I cannot accept your explanation.

2 CUV's that don't have a AWD option---that makes the decision even more indefensible, IMO (Full disclosure: my wife wants to lease a Hybrid w/AWD---she likes the VUE---she won't buy w/o AWD, period---the VUE is such a pig, there's no 4 cyl AWD, either).

I'm not crabby, just real. I've been 100% spot on---unfortunately. If GM seeks to lead, a 6 cylinder hybrid VUE w/o AWD is simply dumb.

A CTS hybrid? yes. A Lambda - available yesterday? yes. How about a Saab? Hell yes.

Another VUE with no AWD, no USP vs. Escape & a limited audience at Saturn dealerships? DUMB. And an excellent example of why GM is in the toilet--it's hybrid strategy is nowhere--

You can put a candle on a pile of sh!t, but please don't try to tell me its a birthday cake.

I thought that the fear of GM's ultimate demise now being a real, actual reality (not just something I was repeatedly accused of 'making up'), you guys might think about some critical, creative, constructive criticism. I guess I'm a little too optimistic!

The important question is, how many other people are going to be interested in a hybrid Vue with AWD? I agree with others about having doubts about how well the 2wd 2mode 6cyl will sell. Most of the people buying hybrids want nothing but the best fuel economy. 6cyl already hurts that. AWD would hurt it more. You've said your wife would buy it, that's not nothing, but the question is how many others would? I don't know the answer to that, but I think it may be presumptuous to say that because it's what your wife wants, that it would be a wise move by GM. I do think it is something they should be looking into, because it could be applicable to the lambdas as well, and if it'll sell, they should look into it. Who knows - maybe it's in the works. Of course, knowing how well GM keeps it's development programs secret, I think we would have heard something if it was, so it's probably not.

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If you're telling me a VUE needed 2 hydrid versions while other product with the same engine AND higher price points could have been used....then I cannot accept your explanation.

2 CUV's that don't have a AWD option---that makes the decision even more indefensible, IMO (Full disclosure: my wife wants to lease a Hybrid w/AWD---she likes the VUE---she won't buy w/o AWD, period---the VUE is such a pig, there's no 4 cyl AWD, either).

I'm not crabby, just real. I've been 100% spot on---unfortunately. If GM seeks to lead, a 6 cylinder hybrid VUE w/o AWD is simply dumb.

A CTS hybrid? yes. A Lambda - available yesterday? yes. How about a Saab? Hell yes.

Another VUE with no AWD, no USP vs. Escape & a limited audience at Saturn dealerships? DUMB. And an excellent example of why GM is in the toilet--it's hybrid strategy is nowhere--

You can put a candle on a pile of sh!t, but please don't try to tell me its a birthday cake.

I thought that the fear of GM's ultimate demise now being a real, actual reality (not just something I was repeatedly accused of 'making up'), you guys might think about some critical, creative, constructive criticism. I guess I'm a little too optimistic!

criticism of no AWD is legitimate. on the 6. i dont think 4 cylinder CUV's really benefit much this size from AWD.

CTS hybrid? i dont think that's needed. show me where the Lexus of the world have received net positive benefit from having hybrids. The LS took a beating in the press for having poor mpg and performance with all sorts of weight penalty. saab, not even sure about that. saab has other product issues that require work prior to expanding them into hybrids. Lambdas? again, the dual mode was developed so one day it goes into the Lambdas. The Tahoe hybrid came first, the Vue got the 3.6 dual mode so a Lambda hybrid would not clash in the showroom with the similarly priced Tahoe.

The Vue might be heavy, but drive one and you get it. It feels rock solid on the road. It doesn't feel flimsy as does the forester and rav4. No one with a 4 cylinder CUV is getting much benefit, as real world mpg with AWD and 4 seldom eclispses 23-25 mpg.

2004 86,957

2005 91,972

2006 88,581

2007 84,767

sales sumbers for each model year of the vue. in today's segmented market, that's not bad. its perfectly right to bring out the hybrid technologies in saturns signature model.

You lambast GM for not putting the hybrid in the large lambda but you're probably also contradicting yourself by now saying that the full size trucks shouldn't have gotten hybrids. those who say 'its pointless to put them in an expensive full size truck' still applies because the lambdas are pretty much close to the tahoe in size and weight. Hmmm, maybe GM thought that here........it's ok for the critics to suggest it, but maybe GM was just saying, for now one large hybrid is enough.

In order to amortize the cost of the hybrids that the japanese government didn't pay for, they needed to put it in higher priced models, that's why they don't have a prius.

The latest Vue's failure in the market is threefold, one, all GM's MSRP's are too high, two the styling has been rejected, three is complete lack of any marketing for the saturn brand, and i'll throw in four....mass hysteria about the Vue's weight. If the Vue had come out when gas was 2.25, no one would have bitched about the curb weight. I'd challenge anyone with 28 thousand bucks to go shop a CRv and a Vue XR and i bet if they test drove them both 90% of the people would recognize the Vue is the superior machine in terms of driving dynamics.

Edited by regfootball
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The important question is, how many other people are going to be interested in a hybrid Vue with AWD? I agree with others about having doubts about how well the 2wd 2mode 6cyl will sell. Most of the people buying hybrids want nothing but the best fuel economy. 6cyl already hurts that. AWD would hurt it more. You've said your wife would buy it, that's not nothing, but the question is how many others would? I don't know the answer to that, but I think it may be presumptuous to say that because it's what your wife wants, that it would be a wise move by GM. I do think it is something they should be looking into, because it could be applicable to the lambdas as well, and if it'll sell, they should look into it. Who knows - maybe it's in the works. Of course, knowing how well GM keeps it's development programs secret, I think we would have heard something if it was, so it's probably not.

AWD does hurt mpg. if i bought a vue hybrid 4 or 6 i think i would lean FWD. a lambda hybrid should indeed come with AWD since its bigger and people expect AWD on bigger SUV's. cute utes don't have as much of a take rate for AWD.

AWD or FWD as a decision really is tied to gas prices. Literally 2 months ago when we bought the taurus x, gas was close to 4 bucks i think. I recall thinking giving up the AWD for a few more MPG would be nice. Now, with winter coming on and gas at 2.30 a gallon, i have no issues paying for more gallons to have better winter traction.

Edited by regfootball
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The important question is, how many other people are going to be interested in a hybrid Vue with AWD? I agree with others about having doubts about how well the 2wd 2mode 6cyl will sell. Most of the people buying hybrids want nothing but the best fuel economy. 6cyl already hurts that. AWD would hurt it more. You've said your wife would buy it, that's not nothing, but the question is how many others would? I don't know the answer to that, but I think it may be presumptuous to say that because it's what your wife wants, that it would be a wise move by GM. I do think it is something they should be looking into, because it could be applicable to the lambdas as well, and if it'll sell, they should look into it. Who knows - maybe it's in the works. Of course, knowing how well GM keeps it's development programs secret, I think we would have heard something if it was, so it's probably not.

I'm merely stating that a customer that would consider it, now won't. GM had an opportunity with a Subie fan and lost it. Got a feeling there are lots of them out there.

What is the point of a CUV if no AWD is available?

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What is the point of a CUV if no AWD is available?

I didn't even think twice about AWD. I, for one, am confident enough behind the wheel that I can pass up that option. I'm sorry, but nowadays, people place too much faith in AWD. If Saturn added an AWD option to its 4 cyl Vue, the price would be way too close to the XE AWD with the 3.5 V6. The MPG penalty for having an AWD 4 would take it closer to the numbers of the XE AWD anyways, so I don't even see it as a decent move when I look at the dismal benefit it would give me (again if Saturn added AWD to its 4 cyl).

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What is the point of a CUV if no AWD is available?

It's just a tall car. Some people know how to drive in snow and rain and don't need an AWD system to kill their fuel economy 100% of the time, just to be a little helpful 1% of the time.

Like I said, there may be enough people that would want it that it's merited. Or it could be a program that would cost GM millions and result in a couple thousand sales, and be a big mistake. Neither of us knows that, but it's something that I would hope GM has or will look into.

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I didn't even think twice about AWD. I, for one, am confident enough behind the wheel that I can pass up that option. I'm sorry, but nowadays, people place too much faith in AWD. If Saturn added an AWD option to its 4 cyl Vue, the price would be way too close to the XE AWD with the 3.5 V6. The MPG penalty for having an AWD 4 would take it closer to the numbers of the XE AWD anyways, so I don't even see it as a decent move when I look at the dismal benefit it would give me (again if Saturn added AWD to its 4 cyl).

First--It's simply common sense that an 'SUV' looking machine offer AWD---I won't debate the merits of AWD, just that it has become an 'expected' part of the CUV experience---the Escape, Highlander, RX400h all have AWD available...why didn't GM plan to have an AWD, too?

Second--the reason the VUE has no AWD 4cyl is because its a Pig---500lbs more than it should be---your circular reasoning brings us right back to the fact that GM was either:a)too cheap,B) too stupid or C)too arrogant--to realize that the WORLD product (Captiva, Antara, Daewoo Whatever, et al) needed to be BETTER than the competition--that's why an AWD VUE isn't available--there's a RAV4, CRV, Rogue and a slew of others that simply HAVE a 4cyl, AWD option

Your question should be why isn't the VUE designed correctly to have an efficient 4 cyl version--not making more lame excuses as to why GM didn't manage to do it--they've got plenty of management in Detroit doing just that now.

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First--It's simply common sense that an 'SUV' looking machine offer AWD---I won't debate the merits of AWD, just that it has become an 'expected' part of the CUV experience---the Escape, Highlander, RX400h all have AWD available...why didn't GM plan to have an AWD, too?

Second--the reason the VUE has no AWD 4cyl is because its a Pig---500lbs more than it should be---your circular reasoning brings us right back to the fact that GM was either:a)too cheap,B) too stupid or C)too arrogant--to realize that the WORLD product (Captiva, Antara, Daewoo Whatever, et al) needed to be BETTER than the competition--that's why an AWD VUE isn't available--there's a RAV4, CRV, Rogue and a slew of others that simply HAVE a 4cyl, AWD option

Your question should be why isn't the VUE designed correctly to have an efficient 4 cyl version--not making more lame excuses as to why GM didn't manage to do it--they've got plenty of management in Detroit doing just that now.

I gotta agree here. If the competition has the goodies in their vehicles, GM should have them too if GM wants to be competitive and wants their sales to go up. Engineering is overcoming difficulties and solving problems, not creating excuses.

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