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BuddyP

GM Looking to sell Pontiac????

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I can understand Saab and Hummer since they are not "true" GM brands (they are recent), maybe even Saturn, but the Pontiac name is GM to heart. I'm not sure that I'm going to like the outcome of GM.

With eight separate brands, GM will also discuss efforts to shed brands but it would prefer to sell them instead of shutting down Pontiac, Saturn or Saab, said one of the people briefed on the plan. Killing off brands, like GM did with Oldsmobile in 2004, would require cash the company doesn't have, the person said. The people briefed on GM's preparations didn't want to be identified because the plan hadn't been completed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460085,00.html

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Since Pontiac is so tied to GM for it's platforms and engines, I can't see how this would work...and who would buy it? Avis?

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Since Pontiac is so tied to GM for it's platforms and engines, I can't see how this would work...and who would buy it? Avis?

I have to agree with this.

Who would buy Pontiac unless it is sold with Holden. Also who would spend the money in times like this?

Even Saturn would be a hard sell. Only Hummer and Saab could be sold but again who in these times will spend the money. Even Toyota was down graded for loans from AAA to AA.

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I have to agree with this.

Who would buy Pontiac unless it is sold with Holden. Also who would spend the money in times like this?

Even Saturn would be a hard sell. Only Hummer and Saab could be sold but again who in these times will spend the money. Even Toyota was down graded for loans from AAA to AA.

Ya...Hummer and Saab have more autonomy and an identity separate from GM, they seem more separatable. Saturn and Pontiac are too tightly integrated into GMNA to separate, IMHO.

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Ya...Hummer and Saab have more autonomy and an identity separate from GM, they seem more separatable. Saturn and Pontiac are too tightly integrated into GMNA to separate, IMHO.

Can't agree on Saturn, with it's stand-alone dealership network. It would be the first one on the block after Hummer were it up to me.

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Can't agree on Saturn, with it's stand-alone dealership network. It would be the first one on the block after Hummer were it up to me.

Saturn, though, like Pontiac, relies on GM platforms and engines. How do you separate those dependencies?

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Saturn, though, like Pontiac, relies on GM platforms and engines. How do you separate those dependencies?

So does Hummer and Saab.

And Jaguar, and Land Rover... part of the sale would have to involve a supplier role for GM in the sale of any brand.

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I can't see anyone wanting Pontiac. All that they have that's worth anything is the G8.

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I can't see anyone wanting Pontiac. All that they have that's worth anything is the G8.

Unfortunatly your right (although I do like the G6). My first car was a '89 Bonneville, SSE... 9 way power leather seats that included power lumbar and headrest, climate control, steering wheel controls, even had a Air Compressor located in the trunk with a 30' hose with a PSI gauge on it! Where are some of these nifty features now? Even on the higher end trim levels? I mean, that was almost 20 years ago! I could still see myself driving one of those cars today if you could still find one in nice condition. Now imagine in '89 driving a car from '69... Wow what a difference. Doesn't seem like too much has really changed in the past 20 years other than an up in HP rating.

Pontiac:

Ditch the G3 and G5 - If Saturn dies then replace G5 with Astra.

Solstice get's people in the showroom

G8... need that 4 cyl turbo with 28-30 mpg's hwy, and market the crap out of it.

G6, nice exterior refresh for '09. Now let's work on some refreshing of the interior.

Torrent, either make it as unique to the Equinox as the Acadia is to the Enclave or cut it from the lineup. NO MORE CHINESE MOTORS! This is another good candidate for a turbo 4 for milage and power....OR.... if Saturn does die, replace torrant with Vue. Also the Outlook could be used (give it a new name or whatever) but give it a true "performance" upgrade to be a "poor man's Cayanne (spelling) so to speak. But I'm not too giddy about keeping a 4th Lambda.

What happened to HUD???

Buick:

Other than the enclave, nothing really going on there. Enclave should be SRX replacement. Then either ditch Buick instead of Pontiac or give it a whole new lineup... either option is costly, Buick NA is in a bad spot. I do NOT want to see GM start importing chinese Buicks into this country.

Edited by BuddyP
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I can't see anyone wanting Pontiac. All that they have that's worth anything is the G8.

Not picking on you specifically, but I really hate it when people say this.

It NOT about what Pontiac has... It's about POTENTIAL. Pontiac has enough name recognition alone to make it valuable to some companies...

What did Land Rover or Jag have when Ford bought them that made them so appealing??? It certainly wasn't the outdated products and sh*tty quality. What was so appealing about Hummer when GM bought it? Outdated military vehicles?!?! What was so appealing about Saab? What did BMW see in Mini? What did the Chinese see in MG? Why did Mercedes buy the Maybach name? What was so appealing about Smart? Why did GM buy Daewoo?

Pontiac has an established dealer network, a pretty damn successful and fresh foundation for a mid-size sedan that already sells very well (compared to almost any other company) the G8 and almost exclusive rights to the affordable RWD market that it affords. Pontiac has the Vibe and it's ties to Toyota (the new #1 automaker, apparently) They have the posterchild Solstice that can outperform a Boxster...

Pontiac has a lot to offer... Much more than Saturn, in fact. And Pontiac has HUGE potential.

I almost wish Congress would bust up GM into two or three seperate smaller automakers so that we could see what these divisions could do with less bureaucracy.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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"a pretty damn successful and fresh foundation for a mid-size sedan" The G6 is a GM Corp Epsilon platform, not 'whipped up in Pontiac MI by descendants of John DeLorean and Jim Wangers, and the G8 is from GMH. There is no wholly separate engineering, R&D, plant, etc, etc, etc.

"established dealer network" Pontiac dealers are dualed mostly, now.

"almost exclusive rights to the affordable RWD market that it affords" Huh? What about Ford and Chevy's pony cars? And, how is the $35K+ RWD G8 'affordable'? Rebates?

Only way Ponitac can be "sold" is if a Chinese firm buys the name to put on cheap cars made with child labor. There would not be any "remanufactured 60's GTO's" coming from China, more like Kia copies or left over Suzuki Forenzas.

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Sell the brand with no assets attached, or maybe a plant attached? Many possibilities... Remember that when BMW bought Rover they bought a $h!load of British brands besides Rover and Mini. Most or all of those brands are in BMW's portfolio, but none has a production facility or actual vehicles. Like FOG wrote it is about selling the brand's potential to someone else.

EDIT - potential doesn't mean RWD vehicles only. It could mean entry into a new market for some OEM, for example.

Edited by ZL-1
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"almost exclusive rights to the affordable RWD market that it affords" Huh? What about Ford and Chevy's pony cars? And, how is the $35K+ RWD G8 'affordable'? Rebates?

$35k is cheap for a V8 RWD sports sedan..only the Charger R/T is in the same price range as the G8 GT. The Camaro and Mustang are sports coupes, a different paradigm.

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"a pretty damn successful and fresh foundation for a mid-size sedan" The G6 is a GM Corp Epsilon platform, not 'whipped up in Pontiac MI by descendants of John DeLorean and Jim Wangers, and the G8 is from GMH. There is no wholly separate engineering, R&D, plant, etc, etc, etc.

And your point is?

I never said it was any of those things. It's pretty obvious that a Pontiac sale would have to include GM supplying things for quite a while (Which is not a bad thing)

"established dealer network" Pontiac dealers are dualed mostly, now.

Ever here of multiple franchise dealers? Just because they are dualed with GMC & Buick doesn't mean anything. Here, Kia is dualed with Buick and Saab with Volvo.

"almost exclusive rights to the affordable RWD market that it affords" Huh? What about Ford and Chevy's pony cars? And, how is the $35K+ RWD G8 'affordable'? Rebates?

$35K is VERY affordable when compared to the Euro nameplates. The pony cars mean nothing, we're talking apples to oranges in both the mindset of the consumer, bodystyles and the purpose of the vehicle.

SIMPLY PUT: With the (apparently greatly exaggerated) death of the LX cars, Pontiac has the ONLY affordable RWD sedan on the market now

Only way Ponitac can be "sold" is if a Chinese firm buys the name to put on cheap cars made with child labor. There would not be any "remanufactured 60's GTO's" coming from China, more like Kia copies or left over Suzuki Forenzas.

No kidding?!?!

Sold is sold... I never specified terms. And I never said anything about GTOs.

Apparently you confuse me with someone that thinks the world revolves around cars from the 60s. :shrugs:

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I can't see anyone wanting Pontiac. All that they have that's worth anything is the G8.

It could be a cheap nationwide entry into the US car market for someone, either foreign or a hobbiest (Lutz? Penske? Branson?).

With GM's market cap around 2 billion recently, lets say Chevy is half of that... of what is left, could someone buy Pontiac, the Pontiac dealer network and a couple closing factories for, say, $160-200 million?

I'll have to ask if my boss has that kinda cash hanging around. ;-)

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Hmmm.

If BMW bought Pontiac and Holden...

I'll finish that thought:

[ ...we just MIGHT get the epically awesome,

100% RWD, enthusiast-centric Pontiac lineup

GM refused to give us! ]

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Pontiac is staying around. I wonder if the G3 will be killed before its even introduced?

I hope so, but I doubt it.

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