FUTURE_OF_GM

Pontiac's fate to be decided in 2010

170 posts in this topic

Those of you waiting to find out what will happen to GM's Pontiac brand may have to wait until next year, Automotive News reports.

According to Susan Docherty, vice president of Buick-Pontiac-GMC, the decision on what to do with Pontiac is "pretty low on the priority list."

Many questions arose after GM officials stated last December in their restructuring plan that they would transform the automaker's sporty division in to a "niche" brand. Currently, two possible product strategies are being considered, Docherty mentions.

One is a rear-wheel drive model focused on rekindling the brand's sporty character -- meaning a possible TransAm and Firebird revival. The other plan includes a sporty, fuel efficient ride priced at around $15,000 to $20,000 and targeted towards younger buyers. Two or three body styles could be offered, insiders claim.

One can only hope!

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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A scion like brand would help GMs overall image, at this time, more than a mullet brand. I'm not a fan of small cars, or scions, but I do know they bring good PR to toyota. Good PR is something GM needs right now.

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I'd prefer the two-pronged approach.

EDIT: The multiple bodystyle concept gives me some hope that someone with a brain is actually working on this.

Kudos for that!

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If GM wants to add another RWD product to Pontiac, then they should add something that is unique and wouldn't directly compete with the Camaro (like a Firebird would). If Zeta is flexible enough to be downsized a bit, I would rather see Pontiac receive a production version of the Holden Torana TT36 Concept. This would give Pontiac something unique in the market and within GM's product structure. It would also be a perfect smaller companion vehicle to the G8 sedan.

The Scion idea for Pontiac seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. There is no reason Chevrolet can't expand its small car portfolio to compete with Scion. If GM wants or feels it needs to split Opel's Euro products between Buick and Pontiac then they should simply do it by bodystyle. Buick should take Opel's higher volume bodystyles and Pontiac should take Opel's sportier niche bodystyles.

Out of the 2 options presented above, I would prefer the first one. It would make Pontiac something that is truly unique in the marketplace and within GM.

Edited by cire
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If GM wants to add another RWD product to Pontiac, then they should add something that is unique and wouldn't directly compete with the Camaro (like a Firebird would). If Zeta is flexible enough to be downsized a bit, I would rather see Pontiac receive a production version of the Holden Torana TT36 Concept. This would give Pontiac something unique in the market and within GM's product structure. It would also be a perfect smaller companion vehicle to the G8 sedan.

The Scion idea for Pontiac seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. There is no reason Chevrolet can't expand its small car portfolio to compete with Scion. If GM wants or feels it needs to split Opel's Euro products between Buick and Pontiac then they should simply do it by bodystyle. Buick should take Opel's higher volume bodystyles and Pontiac should take Opel's sportier niche bodystyles.

Out of the 2 options presented above, I would prefer the first one. It would make Pontiac something that is truly unique in the marketplace and within GM.

Pontiac = RWD performance in two convenient sizes?

I can go with that. 8)

As for Firebird/Trans Am, no - just no.

Not now, and maybe never again.

G8 GTO?

Yes, please!

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GMs version of a scion brand doesn't have to be small ugly station wagons. It can be hot small coupes, hatches, etc. It can be a "small" rear wheel drive Firebird. It can be a division that offers an electric/gas Firebird. A Firebird that goes faster than any other electric vehicle but still is able to achieve 40+ mpg.

It is the image of big V8s, both in cars and trucks, that GM needs to get away from that will help change public perception to be positive. Don't get me wrong, I think we are better off offering big V8 engines that use renewable fuels than small electric vehicles that use metals that are not renewable, but right now GM needs a positive image change more than anything else and electric, small vehicles are it.

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GMs version of a scion brand doesn't have to be small ugly station wagons. It can be hot small coupes, hatches, etc. It can be a "small" rear wheel drive Firebird. It can be a division that offers an electric/gas Firebird. A Firebird that goes faster than any other electric vehicle but still is able to achieve 40+ mpg.

It is the image of big V8s, both in cars and trucks, that GM needs to get away from that will help change public perception to be positive. Don't get me wrong, I think we are better off offering big V8 engines that use renewable fuels than small electric vehicles that use metals that are not renewable, but right now GM needs a positive image change more than anything else and electric, small vehicles are it.

There are ways to make such vehicles viable as Pontiacs, but why?

EDIT: That's not to say that something like an offordable Tesla-like car wouldn't fit the bill, just that the mission of performance and fun must be the central principle of the brand.

Pontiac should be the rebel brand, the one that you buy for yourself no matter what the world may think.

Pontiac should be affordable, fun, performance.

The car you buy because you love cars and love to drive.

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It would be interesting to market Pontiac as the "elemental" brand, the one that cuts right to the core of things.

I think using the names of the architectures as model names would be an interesting approach.

What if Pontiac were:

Alpha

Zeta

and Kappa?

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2-3 bodies of Zeta + 2-3 bodies of alpha, 2 bodies of delta II = success

Mostly agree with this, and see it as workable.

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2-3 bodies of Zeta + 2-3 bodies of alpha, 2 bodies of delta II = success

I like that, especially if the delta II could have a top version with AWD to go up against the EVO and STI.

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I could see a Pontiac WRX fighter. I really could. With that I could see the Red Arrowhead getting the same respect as the Scoobies.

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I just don't see it happening unless the automarket makes a big recovery. There is just too little demand for cars and it will damage Pontiacs chances.

As for what Pontiac needs to be. It needs to be smaller, lighter, fast and fun to drive. It will need to get higher MPG if it is to live into the future.

So forget about all the big V8 retro ideas. Why follow the Mustang, Camaro and Challanger into a dying market when you could lead the rest into a new market that has to come due to coming goverment regulations.

Lighter weight cars will give us handling and braking the present 3900 pound cars can't give. As I see that it is a good thing.

Now that I have a 290 HP Ecotech and 315 FT LBS of torque I see the merits of small engines and lighter weights. I will soon be over 300 HP with simple bolt on's

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To make this work, they will have to make sure that mainstream stuff doesn't trickle back in to the Pontiac portfolio.

Pontiac must have the tightest focus to survive and thrive.

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I just don't see it happening unless the automarket makes a big recovery. There is just too little demand for cars and it will damage Pontiacs chances.

As for what Pontiac needs to be. It needs to be smaller, lighter, fast and fun to drive. It will need to get higher MPG if it is to live into the future.

So forget about all the big V8 retro ideas. Why follow the Mustang, Camaro and Challanger into a dying market when you could lead the rest into a new market that has to come due to coming goverment regulations.

Lighter weight cars will give us handling and braking the present 3900 pound cars can't give. As I see that it is a good thing.

Now that I have a 290 HP Ecotech and 315 FT LBS of torque I see the merits of small engines and lighter weights. I will soon be over 300 HP with simple bolt on's

Nope.

Can't see it that way.

For GM as a whole, fine.

For Pontiac's little corner of the world, no way.

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I just don't see it happening unless the automarket makes a big recovery. There is just too little demand for cars and it will damage Pontiacs chances.

As for what Pontiac needs to be. It needs to be smaller, lighter, fast and fun to drive. It will need to get higher MPG if it is to live into the future.

So forget about all the big V8 retro ideas. Why follow the Mustang, Camaro and Challanger into a dying market when you could lead the rest into a new market that has to come due to coming goverment regulations.

Lighter weight cars will give us handling and braking the present 3900 pound cars can't give. As I see that it is a good thing.

Now that I have a 290 HP Ecotech and 315 FT LBS of torque I see the merits of small engines and lighter weights. I will soon be over 300 HP with simple bolt on's

Everything you said is fine, but Pontiac can't abandon the V8 for all their models. The GTO/G8 need the V8. The Alphas would do well with turbo 6s deltas with turbo 4s

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A scion like brand would help GMs overall image, at this time, more than a mullet brand. I'm not a fan of small cars, or scions, but I do know they bring good PR to toyota. Good PR is something GM needs right now.

GM needs to move above coping the competition and the Scion brand is fadding fast for Toyota, they have lost their focus and way. This is NOT what GM needs to do.

What they need is a multiple style approach of Niche perfomance for the BPG mid level strategy. Seems someone is actually thinking outside of the box on how to really benefit and focus this 3 step approach.

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If they do this brand justice at long last, they can certainly win me back.

If not...

Exactly how I feel. I will still buy other brands as well, but there will always be at least 1 Pontiac in my garage.

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A scion like brand would help GMs overall image, at this time, more than a mullet brand. I'm not a fan of small cars, or scions, but I do know they bring good PR to toyota. Good PR is something GM needs right now.

I agree...

However, I don't see why a Scion-like Pontiac couldn't be topped with something like a Trans Am or GTO halo.

Chevy gets Corvette, Pontiac could get a rather limited Trans Am or Firebird (or GTO)

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Scion is a failed model which completely missed its mark.

Not a template for anyone to follow.

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Scion is a failed model which completetly missed its mark.

Not a template for anyone to follow.

I agree and disagree...

Scion model line = FAIL.

Scion mission, buyer base, marketing and customization = Something a niche Pontiac would benefit greatly from.

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